Kalshi court losses pile up as judges refuse to block state gambling laws

Posted by Analemma_ 1 hour ago

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Comment by JumpCrisscross 55 seconds ago

“Donald Trump Jr was handed about $300,000 worth of equity in Kalshi after joining the prediction market platform as a strategic adviser in early 2025” [1]

[1] https://www.ft.com/content/f70147b1-ee77-4d75-8587-707a49ddb...

Comment by bennettnate5 20 minutes ago

I've seen plenty of lawsuits and dirt specifically on Kalshi, but have yet to see one on Polymarket. Is there anything specific states have against Kalshi over other prediction markets, or are they just the first/most prominent of what will be a wave of lawsuits against these kinds of companies generally?

Comment by dogmayor 4 minutes ago

In some cases, Kalshi brought the lawsuit against the state(s). Others, where the state(s) initiated the action, name Kalshi and not Polymarket because only Kalshi is operating (legally) in US. Polymarket doesn't offer as many markets on its US-facing entity as it does on its main international site, and not exactly sure but I believe they have not included many of the markets on their US site that are causing Kalshi issues here.

The main thing getting Kalshi all the attention from the states is their sports gambling markets. Not sure if polymarket offers those to US.

Comment by ronsor 18 minutes ago

Polymarket didn't serve the US last I checked, unless they've changed recently.

Comment by xvector 1 minute ago

They do nothing to block US people from signing up to polymarket.com, the block is a farce

Comment by xenadu02 10 minutes ago

Polymarket does. In the US they are a registered CFTC exchange for trading event contracts. That gives them some degree of protection from state actors. It also increases the odds that if you make money you'll actually be able to withdraw it unlike many of these markets. They also operate in actual dollars not make up crypto tokens.

Note that Polymarket's non-US business is crypto blockchain whatever so ... good luck with that. The ability to get your money out could disappear at any time and as far as I know there's no recourse if they just decide to screw you over. Not that CFTC is super effective but it is something.

Comment by JumpCrisscross 4 minutes ago

> In the US they are a registered CFTC exchange for trading event contracts. That gives them some degree of protection from state actors

So is Kalshi. The entire question is how the CFTC made up the authority to regulate gambling out of statute that only ever mentions exempted commodities.

Comment by NoahZuniga 9 minutes ago

They do: polymarket.us

Comment by bennettnate5 16 minutes ago

Ah, makes sense. I've never bothered looking into using either so I wasn't aware of that.

Comment by LordDragonfang 16 minutes ago

I think it might have something to do with the fact that Kalshi is aggressively running ads targeting young men to get them into sports gambling, and Polymarket isn't. (I've never seen them, but my less-technical brother claims he sees them all the time on tiktok and they're particularly sleazy).

Also, more to the point, Polymarket actually does have at least three active lawsuits against it.

edit: looks like this has something to do with it:

> Kalshi has been a CFTC-regulated exchange since 2020. Polymarket exited the US in 2022 after settling charges with the CFTC, and only came back after buying QCEX, a CFTC-licensed exchange, in late 2025.

Comment by wood_spirit 7 minutes ago

Yes it’s strange, both have hired Donald Trump Jr. as advisor. You’d think they’d both be safe.

Comment by ryandrake 45 minutes ago

The differences are blurring between gambling, stock speculation, and investing. If Kalshi is gambling, how does it differ from trading traditional financial instruments that are affected by unknown future events like Federal Reserve interest rate decisions, inflation data, and stock market indices?

Comment by xenadu02 4 minutes ago

Stocks are backed by something real (in general). There's a business. That business can't just manufacture new stock out of thin air without going through a regulatory process to do so and the total number of shares is publicly known.

Furthermore the institutions that allow you to trade mostly aren't taking positions on the stock price and in theory there are jail-time consequences if they cheat. In practice that isn't always the case but at least there is some limit to what they can do to screw over their customers.

These contract markets have absolutely none of that. If they decide to take up positions to stuff their own pockets you probably wouldn't even know it and it wouldn't be illegal either. They can make up contracts for anything and everything without limit. If they aren't front-running their own customers then they're idiots because that's free money. And they can just lie about the odds as they like so if bets aren't going the way they want just tip the scales.

Oh and they have absolute control over whether any event counts as success or not and how to handle edge cases. There's no one you can appeal to.

Maybe they operate above-board in all aspects. Maybe they don't. No one really knows.

Comment by tombert 16 minutes ago

Even if we concede that, Kalshi and Polymarket need to be better regulated with actual laws associated with it, as opposed to the quasi-wild-west thing we have now. I will acknowledge that a lot of trading isn't significantly different than gambling, when you do things to purposefully manipulate the market or gamble with non-public information, there's at least an SEC that can investigate, sue, and/or arrest. I'm not claiming it's perfect, but at least there's an attempt to make the markets more fair.

It doesn't really seem like Kalshi and Polymarket have nearly the same regulation. There are plenty of cases where people are purposefully betting on the market when they can easily manipulate the results, with little/no consequences.

Comment by whatisthiseven 23 minutes ago

Are you actually asking, or sea-lioning? I can't imagine anyone comparing these two whom has even a cursory understand of financial markets and gambling. Unless one has interests in gambling companies? Or do you gamble a lot and want to keep it legal? Why frame your question this way? Judge gambling on its merits, for which there clearly isn't any outside of entertainment.

Like, at least try to put effort to the comment to show you thought about it beyond the obvious propaganda of gambling companies. What, specifically, is the same? Why arent the differences important?

The apps know who the whales are. They make up 90% of their revenue. Ban them from taking money from whales, and the problem evaporates back to harmless $20 fun.

How to do this? Demand proof of income or assets and rent above $2000 in bets made in one year. Then audit these companies to ensure they are banning problem gamblers. If they are gambling or losing more than 5% of their net worth/income, that is a whale and they need to be play within their limits or get banned.

This is trivial to do, including at casinos. No one wants to do this because those companies have interests and that means their $100B+ scam industry is gone.

Comment by kelipso 1 minute ago

I didn’t read anything after you said sealioning but please stop accusing people of sealioning, and look up the definition while you’re at it too.

Comment by xmprt 40 minutes ago

One is betting on downstream outcomes whereas another is betting on specific events.

Comment by 10 minutes ago

Comment by Muromec 26 minutes ago

>If Kalshi is gambling, how does it differ from trading traditional financial instruments that are affected by unknown future events like Federal Reserve interest rate decisions,

Easy. Financial instruments are used to tune the resource allocation in capitalism. Gambling however is used to have fun with an idea of getting free money. As such, one is at odds with the religious beliefs based on not having fun for no good reason.

Comment by miltonlost 31 minutes ago

The differences between "gambling on sports" and "a contract on the end results of a sports game" is the same as the difference between "driving a car" and a sovereign citizen's "traveling in a conveyance". You are playing semantic games for what are the same substance. You are conflating the issue of sports gambling (which is what the law suit is about) with interest rates and saying that it's all gambling/stock market. It's not cute or logical.

Comment by rolosa 43 minutes ago

Don't be obtuse. Kalshi and Polymarket are 100% gambling. You don't need a PhD to see that.

Comment by ericyd 31 minutes ago

Yes, but I interpret the comment to mean that stock trading isn't that much different

Comment by twosdai 25 minutes ago

Both have risk associated with them yes, one has oversight from the goverment and the other is a game / world event.

With stocks if I try to do insider trading I run the risk of Jail time. Or if I try to do a Pump and Dump scheme, I go to jail. If I am an person and I "place a bet on polymarket/kalshi" and then go and influence that outcome. It may not be illegal. Since these markets commodify literally any event, its impossible to control the items themselves. So the markets need to be controlled.

Comment by kube-system 28 minutes ago

Financial assets, and especially stocks, are instruments to trade something of financial value.

Comment by whattheheckheck 9 minutes ago

You can also use the prediction markets to hedge in different channels

Comment by kube-system 8 minutes ago

I could hedge it at the blackjack table too -- that doesn't make a blackjack hand a financial asset. I'm talking about whether the instrument itself is backed by something of inherent value.

You could buy a stock expecting asset appreciation, but the stock itself is a certificate of ownership in a business. Even a derivative of this, like options trading, is a contract to buy or sell or deliver said certificate of ownership in a business. Ultimately it is backed by something of tangible value.

"Predictions markets" are all of the mechanics of trading, but without any underlying value. It is literally gambling wearing Groucho glasses. The bet is simply for the sake of the bet.

Comment by viccis 27 minutes ago

Stock trading isn't gambling. It's just owning assets that can change in value. Options trading is much closer to gambling, and I would say the biggest difference between it and Kalshi and similar gambling companies is that it's much more rigorously (if nowhere near perfectly) regulated.

Comment by acdevlin42 23 minutes ago

I mean, prediction markets are gambling by all accounts, so this should have been expected no? On a personal level I'm really hoping this is the end of the massive rise in "swaps" over the last few years since it's been an obnoxious trend.

Comment by nazgulsenpai 58 minutes ago

I'm against government regulation of gambling in principle but in reality, they have an uphill battle trying to convince any reasonable person that 'its platform offers “swaps” that can only be regulated by the US Commodity Futures Exchange (CFTC)'.

Comment by bgun 45 minutes ago

How do you feel about government regulation of heroin? Do your principles apply equally across all forms of “personal responsibility”?

Comment by KerrAvon 32 minutes ago

How do you feel about government regulation of abortion? We could play this game all day.

Comment by gazpachotron 37 minutes ago

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Comment by cestith 1 hour ago

These betting marketplaces that take any proposition are either dealing in gambling or futures and derivatives trading. So if they don't fall under gambling laws and regulations, they can deal with the SEC digging into their businesses instead. They might want to pick their battles.

Comment by yieldcrv 57 minutes ago

CFTC, which isn’t as heavy handed as the SEC even under democrats

SEC is down for whatever right now too by the way

Comment by Analemma_ 53 minutes ago

> CFTC, which isn’t as heavy handed as the SEC even under democrats

In ordinary times when the CFTC is just regulating things like pork belly futures, sure. But crypto and sports gambling are extremely politicized and red-coded now; Kalshi shouldn't expect the same sleepy regulation for them as for ordinary commodities.

Honestly I don't see their endgame. Even if they win these cases in court and fall under CFTC jurisdiction, that only matters if they have friendlies in the White House and the next administration will have knives out for them.

Comment by joshheitzman 40 minutes ago

Comment by yieldcrv 42 minutes ago

do business as long as possible and adapt to the next strongman, like in every other country?

nobody in business cares that the people are married to “due process” to respect the edicts, versus some other governance structure. just delay and adapt is the whole game. the corporation is a conduit to flow revenue to board, executives and functionally shareholders (but dividends are now uncommon). The corporation can become a husk if it fails to adapt and that wont be the current people’s problem if they have extracted substantial wealth out before then

Comment by DivingForGold 1 hour ago

The Supreme Court of The US has the final say on this.

Comment by JumpCrisscross 6 minutes ago

No, the Congress does.

Comment by ares623 1 hour ago

The ultimate bet

Comment by hnav 45 minutes ago

Ironically couldn't find a market for it on either kalshi or polymarket

Comment by paxy 45 minutes ago

The Supreme Court has no say over a state choosing to ban gambling.

Comment by nojito 5 minutes ago

The case would be on CFTC authority vs state authority.

You’d be hard pressed to argue that states should be individually able to control futures trading

Comment by JumpCrisscross 2 minutes ago

You’d be similarly hard pressed to read the CFTC magicking gambling authority as anything but a major question.

Comment by 15155 36 minutes ago

What is the Supremacy Clause?

Comment by jf 24 minutes ago

What is stare decisis?

Comment by bothers 10 minutes ago

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Comment by kube-system 42 minutes ago

I do agree that prediction markets are BS gambling pretending to be something else.

But factually, SCOTUS does have authority over the application of the supremacy clause. At some point they will send federal agents in and enforce it themselves.

Comment by VanTheBrand 42 minutes ago

Except that the Supreme Court does have a say over whether or not the Supreme Court has a say over a state choosing to ban gambling.

Comment by greeneggs 36 minutes ago

According to the article, Kalshi paid Trump a $3 million bribe. Do we have any idea what bribes the Republican Supreme Court Justices have taken from Kalshi?

Comment by 2 minutes ago

Comment by mcmcmc 47 minutes ago

Great, the most corrupt court ever.

Comment by not_a_bot_4sho 21 minutes ago

Samuel Chase has entered the chat

Comment by yieldcrv 53 minutes ago

Ninth circuit case, second circuit case, and third circuit case are all different outcomes because they are judging state laws in federal courts, different states within their respective circuit

I think Nevada’s and Arkansas was also mentioned - I guess Arkansas is in the fifth circuit - those are more comprehensive and broad than New Jersey’s in the third circuit

Ultimately I expect Kalshi will have the swaps treatment reaffirmed, and the supremacy clause will override most of the state laws

But for Nevada and Arkansas residents it will be unworkable, and they will just block some forms of bets for residents in those states

Comment by kube-system 45 minutes ago

Unless Congress now acts

Comment by yieldcrv 38 minutes ago

perhaps, enough people are annoyed at the distortion to sports advertising and their friend’s behaviors that they could get some republican senators support for the 60 vote threshold

otherwise Democrats are still without power to unilaterally pass laws

have their been any proposals to deal with this? bills that didnt make it out of committee?

something as simple as adding some contracts to the ban in the onion futures act I think is a mistake

Comment by kube-system 31 minutes ago

Some of the states that have issues with Kalshi are red, e.g Utah. There’s a serious states rights issue here as well.

Comment by redanddead 59 minutes ago

Trump fucked them and their investors