Nasdaq plummets 4% into correction territory

Posted by kristianp 1 day ago

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Comments

Comment by compiler-guy 23 hours ago

According to the Googles, there have been approximately 14,000 trading days since the Nasdaq Composite was founded, and it has fallen four-percent or more 147 days, meaning that we get a decline like this roughly every 100 trading days, which means about twice a calendar year, very roughly.

That's newsworthy, but also not extremely unusual.

The more interesting detail than nasdaq overall is just what sectors are having bad days and how concentrated that is. Seems to be predominantly AI companies, which is very relevant to the HN crowd.

Comment by deadmutex 23 hours ago

> meaning that we get a decline like this roughly every 100 trading days, which means about twice a calendar year, very roughly.

Stock volatility is typically clustered. So, we can't make this type of claim. Just like this statement is flawed: Chicago experiences below freezing weather 10% of the time, so every 10 days you see below freezing weather.

Comment by ajross 29 minutes ago

Just to come back and clarify: it bounced this morning. Yesterday wasn't the crash. It's not a cluster. Grandparent point was fundamentally correct. "Nothing to see here", as it were.

Comment by 15 hours ago

Comment by 21 hours ago

Comment by YetAnotherNick 23 hours ago

It happened in 2016, 2018, 2020, 2022, 2025 and 2026, so 6 out of last 11 years. Not sure if I would count it as too rare.

Comment by nilamo 23 hours ago

That's every other year, which is quite different from 2+yearly, which is exactly the point the gp was making.

Comment by ajross 22 hours ago

I think "every other year" is 100% of a piece with grandparent's point, which is that this is "newsworthy but not notable".

Markets move. Sometimes they move more than normal. This is one of those times.

Will it keep moving? Will it crash? Maybe! But what it has done right now is not that.

Comment by compiler-guy 23 hours ago

"Four times every two years" isn't exactly the same as "twice every year", but also reflects a similar, "not that unusual" answer.

Although I didn't claim "twice every year like clockwork" in my top-level comment either. It's just a very basic statement of the base rate.

Make it eight-times every four years or sixteen-times every eight years. Or maybe "Four-times every other year, in a clustered fashion".

I don't think any of that really changes the point.

Comment by furyofantares 22 hours ago

It does change the point! If it happened roughly twice a year, it's not as noteworthy when it happens than if tends to happen every other year, but four times.

It's more noteworthy when it happens the more clustered it tends to be. If it were typical that we'd go ~7 years with none then have ~16 in a single year, it would be huge news when it happens.

Comment by paulpauper 22 hours ago

Corrections (down 10% or more): about one per year on average. The Nasdaq is more volatile than the S&P 500, which has a correction closer to every 1.5 to 2 years.

Comment by Choad_20261104 21 hours ago

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Comment by what 23 hours ago

Every other year is much less frequent than twice a year?

Comment by compiler-guy 23 hours ago

Multiple times every other year.

Comment by asdfasvea 21 hours ago

'Biannual' finally found it's perfect use case.

Comment by danudey 2 hours ago

As others have said, averages aren't useful unless the behavior matches the average.

If those 147 4% drops actually happened every 100 days or so then it's not newsworthy or interesting, just an occasional correction.

If those 147 days happened all in a row that would mean the nasdaq dropped to 0.25% of its original value in about 4 months, which would be catastrophic.

The real answer is presumably somewhere in the middle, but the specifics are what determines if it's worth noting or not.

Comment by JumpCrisscross 22 hours ago

If the bank collapse in Paraguay hadn’t happened today, and stocks hadn’t initially risen yesterday, I’d tend to agree with you. This is odd enough to potentially have a better explanation than everyone got happy and then sad all of a sudden.

Comment by method_capital 21 hours ago

Paraguayan banks don't mean a whole lot in the global financial markets.

Comment by Fargren 21 hours ago

The fall of the bank didn't cause Nasdaq to fall. But the opposite direction, or both events having a common cause? Entirely possible.

Comment by JumpCrisscross 21 hours ago

Paraguayan banks with close ties to a politician with, in turn, ties to the Trump family absolutely hint at money moving around.

Comment by golden-face 21 hours ago

I thought the bank collapsed on Monday? And it was only like a 3 billion dollar bank? So note huge.

Comment by dodger-dog 6 hours ago

Wall Street banks avoided becoming a political talking point with that action yesterday.

Comment by shermantanktop 21 hours ago

Read enough of these “explanations” of what the market did and a portrait emerges of extreme emotional volatility combined with a fantastic imagination. The market is insanely happy because x went up, which means the Fed will do y, and so pork belly futures will do z. Oh no! Now it is sad! But for the same reason?

Comment by throwaway2037 20 hours ago

For the same reason, spot FX commentary is utter garbage, yet there seems to be unlimited amounts of it.

Comment by grey-area 22 hours ago

Statistics about up and down days or particular periods of the stock market can say whatever you want, because they're so easy to cherry-pick.

A more interesting stat is the current CAPE.

https://www.thetrading.tools/shiller-cape

It is at levels only seen three times in the last century.

Comment by JumpCrisscross 21 hours ago

To be fair, there is no theoretical model for estimating natural CAPE. I’d argue the world of the post 1990s deserves a higher CAPE than the one which preceded it, though we’re trying hard in American to undo that stability.

Comment by nly 18 hours ago

And has been since 2016

Comment by dodger-dog 6 hours ago

It's just diversity at work. Money is diversifying out of US corporations and flooding into other assets and markets. Expectations of the American economy's near-term future have outrun the realities on the ground, so you could say it is a diversification of expectations, too.

Comment by dataviz1000 22 hours ago

It seems what happens, because of regime change, is investors will take profit moving to cash, and in the coming weeks reposition. For example, Elon is going to have to pay for Doge so he is a political loser. Moving out of SpaceX is pragmatic and expect those who do drive up demand for something else in the coming weeks.

At the end of the day, everyone's retirement is tied to the SP500 and it will always go up.

Comment by AnimalMuppet 21 hours ago

> At the end of the day, everyone's retirement is tied to the SP500 and it will always go up.

Not when more retired boomers are pulling more money out than GenZ/Alphas are putting in.

Comment by dataviz1000 20 hours ago

> retired boomers

That isn't where the money propping up the SP500 is coming from. It is a ponzi scheme, yes. It is held up by $40,000,000,000,000 in national debt. That can is getting kicked down the line to one or two generations that haven't been born yet.

You and I don't need to worry about it because we will be long gone by then.

All we know is that Elon isn't getting any more freshly minted currency.

Comment by selectodude 20 hours ago

That’s literally impossible. The market requires a buyer and a seller. If the retired boomers pull their money out, it’ll move the markets to a place that is attractive and affordable for the Gen Alpha.

Comment by david-gpu 20 hours ago

You are not taking into account foreign investors. Plenty of countries have a healthy population pyramid and are quickly industrializing.

Comment by stubish 20 hours ago

Indexes are essentially 'the rich getting richer'. Great news for wealth disparity if true. But I suspect boomer inheritances will become intergenerational wealth given average number of children and rising age people inherit at.

Comment by noir_lord 17 hours ago

https://finviz.com/index/COMP?p=d I find those square visualisations valuable since they indicate both size and delta.

Comment by 21 hours ago

Comment by mywittyname 23 hours ago

It's funny: for all the "pattern recognition" people try to apply to markets, they often miss the very basic ones. "Record highs" are incredibly common, and "corrections" also happen regularly.

June had two similar NASDAQ corrections, July had one as well. Sept was flat, but October was a straight downward trend. On the flip side, April to June was a constantly increasing.

The last time the NASDAQ was this low was all the way back in April 2026...

Comment by woah 22 hours ago

By definition it is either at a record high or in a correction, especially with inflation

Comment by abirch 21 hours ago

I get what you're saying, however, a correction is technically a 10% drawdown from a recent high: https://www.schwab.com/learn/story/market-correction-what-do... so you can be neither in a correction nor at an all-time high. You can be down 0.01% to 9.99%

Comment by davidhunter 20 hours ago

What about 6% or more?

Comment by gottorf 23 hours ago

Probably more helpful to see the Z-score.

Comment by russli1993 13 hours ago

AI infra stocks are down more than 50% from the peak and hyperscalers stocks have underperformed the market in 1 year.

Comment by qurren 20 hours ago

Also, I wonder who defines these "territories"

People seem to call it a "correction" to make themselves feel better but they're all just crashes to me, and crashes are normal

Comment by paulpauper 23 hours ago

it's the same pattern too. except for 2000 or 2008 it tends to come back really fast too .

Comment by haemdahl 20 hours ago

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Comment by chollida1 1 day ago

Alot going on today. a 4% drop in a day is pretty darn big.

3 different pods are being liquidated that i've heard of. And the data center trade has been unwound in just 2 days is a pretty violent shock.

Lots of rumors about situational awareness also in alot of trouble. I feel for this guy a bit. He did really well to get a good slug of Anthropic shares that made his investors alot of money.

But since about July when it was clear that Anthropic was done going up like a rocket ship his investors have probably been hounding him about how he's going to make money outside of Anthropic.

his first foray into the public markets was a disaster and might set a record for fastest wipe out from start to finish that forced him to have to sell his public book escape a wind up.

But due to Anthropic taking a possible IPO valuation cut he's had to go back to the public markets at the worst time and if rumours going around today are correct, he's looking at how to liquidate his public portfolio for the second time in the quarter.

Comment by TheAlchemist 22 hours ago

> And the data center trade has been unwound in just 2 days is a pretty violent shock.

It's very very far from being unwound. If (or when) it does, many companies in the space will be down 90-100%. Definitely not today.

Comment by bwfan123 15 hours ago

> It's very very far from being unwound.

The grind-down has barely started. We were waiting for a catalyst and it was unexpected. The narrative has shifted to a widespread negative ai-vibe and is hard to counter with any amount of propaganda by the pro ai-crowd. Datacenter debt will be repriced and along with that capex-cuts. These take time and have barely started. The markets have smelt that these are around the corner.

Comment by kunai 20 hours ago

The writing is on the wall. They lost. No amount of whining from SV people who don't go outside, who do not live in the real world, and who are high on their own supply of agents and harnesses who vibe-code all day in their small EA/rationalist bubbles and produce very little of actual economic value for normal people and who are so arrogant they are attempting to impose their dystopian will upon people will change this.

Investors are not rationalists or effective altruists. They chase the money. If the fundamentals and DD does not math to allow data centers to be profitable, and governments honor the people's will, they will jump ship and quicker than you think. And if governments do not honor the people's will (which is firmly in opposition to the odious people behind this push) then we have far bigger problems to worry about.

Comment by Tadpole9181 18 hours ago

> And if governments do not honor the people's will... then we have far bigger problems to worry about.

Oh, yeah, sure. They'll get right on that. Patriot act is going away any day now. Climate change and healthcare and judicial / law enforcement reform going to be addressed any second.

Comment by 1970-01-01 21 hours ago

4% isn't much in context. It wouldn't make the list of 20 biggest drops over the last 20 years.

Comment by russli1993 13 hours ago

Semi stocks have fallen more than 50% from the peak or in just the past 30 days.

Comment by OrangeDelonge 18 hours ago

The drop was 5.5% and from what I can see, its number 5 on the list of biggest Nasdaq drops in a single day in history.

Comment by louiereederson 23 hours ago

Do you have sources to share on this besides Reddit?

Comment by paulpauper 22 hours ago

it's just panic selling, with Ai as the ad hoc justification.

Comment by chollida1 22 hours ago

> Do you have sources to share on this besides Reddit?

Sources for what specifically?

If you meant for pods and funds blowing up:

https://x.com/SpecialSitsNews/status/2118415084280242230

Gives a decent list. Though most of the ones i know of are from contacts on the sell side who are assisting with wind downs.

And I don't think i mentioned reddit, you might be replying to the wrong thread?

Comment by LightBug1 20 hours ago

Sorry, I don't read twitter. Do you have another link?

Comment by paulpauper 22 hours ago

there are like a zillion of these pod shops and tiny firms. doesn't mean much. wake me up when a big fund fails

Comment by actualeff0rt 21 hours ago

I work in quant trading - I can guarantee you at least 4/7 of the firms on that list are well-known, well-respected, and would count as "big funds". Can't comment on the actual pods that apparently went bust though, but generally you should expect the average pod at these places to be at least reasonably good considering the sink-or-swim environment they are perpetually in.

Comment by empath75 21 hours ago

Pods can go broke on a 4% _rise_ in the stock market. They make levered bets and it's easy to get way on the wrong side of one.

Comment by chollida1 22 hours ago

Those are Billion dollar funds, those are large fish:)

Troluce and Axebrook had more than $1.5B pulled from them by Millennium.

Walleye is a $17B AUM fund.

> there are like a zillion of these pod shops and tiny firms. doesn't mean much. wake me up when a big fund fails

I get that not everyone knows the industry but consider this your wakeup call:)

Comment by mamonster 2 hours ago

The names are well known, the most surprising one for me is Axebrook. ITD from 2020 the Credit Alpha fund is like 1.3 Sharpe.

This and Arini in the same year is pretty bad for credit managers.

Comment by paulpauper 21 hours ago

I mean if you have 1000+ firms, statistically , some will fail no matter what? Like, selling to many calls in a rally, or too many puts in a correction etc.

Comment by chollida1 21 hours ago

I agree with the first part of your sentence but to be fair you said to wake you up when a big firm failed and i was only pointing out that, several big firms have failed as I pointed out:)

I fully understand that very few people on hackernews actually are in the capital markets and i happen to be one so I'll always have a far better understanding than outsiders like your self.

I'm just trying to provide some colour to people regarding what's happening today and why fund closures are magnifying this.

Comment by georgeecollins 23 hours ago

Thinking a 5% drop in one day is a big deal is recency bias. Other people have pointed out that statistically it is not that rare. We just have been living through an amazing run for equities.

I am not saying I know it will be fine or I know it will be terrible. I am saying I have lived through many 5%+ drops and they happen on the way up and down.

Comment by chollida1 22 hours ago

> Thinking a 5% drop in one day is a big deal is recency bias

In the past 5 years the S&P 500 has dropped 5% 1 time. the Nasdaq has done it 3 times.

You are ofcourse welcome to your own definition of a big deal but to me something that happens that rarely is a big deal.

At worst you'd have to agree that hte language is defensible:)

Comment by dcrazy 20 hours ago

I think the argument is that we have been in a massive everything bubble since summer of 2020, so you have to look back farther to truly understand the rarity of a 4% drop.

Comment by excorxism 18 hours ago

The index isn't even the story.

Chips/Memory/data center everything AI has got absolutely destroyed this month.

Look at LITE, FLEX, FIX, TER, WDC, the Kospi.

Comment by next_xibalba 23 hours ago

> And the data center trade has been unwound in just 2 days is a pretty violent shock

Is this true? Coreweave is down ~66% over the last 6 months, with that decline occurring somewhat linearly over that period (i.e. not last 2 days). Very similar chart for Applied Digital.

Comment by empath75 21 hours ago

> Alot going on today. a 4% drop in a day is pretty darn big.

Yeah, but it's up 50% in the last 5 years. 4% drop puts us back where it was, oh, in July of this year.

Comment by grey-area 20 hours ago

Only has to fall by 33% to go back 5 years then.

A few days at > 10% and that's perfectly doable in a week. Unlikely I'll grant you but this is a large move at the top of a bull market amid huge concentration and weakening fundamentals. There are reasons to pay attention to it.

Comment by achandra03 23 hours ago

> He did really well to get a good slug of Anthropic shares that made his investors alot of money.

His wife is chief of staff to Dario isn't she? Not saying this guy isn't smart but let's call a spade a spade here.

Comment by kgwgk 23 hours ago

Last I heard he was buying options... but maybe he ended up buying the dipping dip.

https://www.cnbc.com/2026/09/11/leopold-aschenbrenners-situa...

Comment by bagacrap 13 hours ago

Where are the situational awareness rumors? I enjoy some good schadenfreude, but he pinky swore he was done with leverage, so how can he blow up again? Unless he's getting a flood of redemptions.

Comment by porkshoe 21 hours ago

Why would you feel for him?

He's an overconfident dipshit who made a few large, successful bets that made heaps of money; but he didn't practice any sort of risk management with his portfolio, and kind of did the opposite.

And despite that failure, he made immense personal wealth and will definitely have the opportunity to run more money in the future.

I'd love to fail as badly as he did.

Comment by paulpauper 23 hours ago

The Nasdaq rebounds so fast though. it's not that big of a deal. bought the dip. I think it's just noise. markets sometimes look for any reason to sell

Comment by paulpauper 22 hours ago

Lots of rumors about situational awareness also in alot of trouble. I feel for this guy a bit. He did really well to get a good slug of Anthropic shares that made his investors alot of money.

What is there to feel for him? he took huge bets and lost , although he will still be wealthy no matter how much $ his clients lose. How he got so much attention and money is a mystery; just another example of mediocrity being rewarded. No wonder so many people think society is rigged or screwed. We see in Washington or on Wall Street . The same reckless people keep failing forward, keep being immune to the consequences of their actions and incompetence.

Comment by coffeebeqn 22 hours ago

It’s giving me Cathie Wood vibes during Covid years. Bet everything on the bubble and look like a genius while the bubble inflates. Afterwards not so much

Comment by chasd00 23 hours ago

Happens every time Democrats win office, then it slowly trickles back up. The anti-datacenter vote screws up a lot of plans but the lack of power generation had already screwed up much of them anyway. He who shouldn't be named said that all these software people are in for a rude awakening when they try to scale real world infrastructure at the rate they're use to scaling virtual software infrastructure.

Comment by enjoyyourlife 23 hours ago

Additionally voters rebuffed data centers in every ballot measure

See https://www.cnbc.com/2026/11/04/data-center-ballot-measures-...

Comment by SoftTalker 23 hours ago

There's always market volatility in the time surrounding elections, no matter which party dominates. Once the uncertainty settles down, the markets usually do as well.

Comment by tencentshill 22 hours ago

Trump is/was the very agent of uncertainty himself. Destroyed years of corporate plans and preparations every waking hour with random tariff announcements. Literally a one-man recession.

Comment by SoftTalker 21 hours ago

Trump was certainly an outlier, but the observation holds.

Trump (come January anyway) is a lame duck now, especially with a blue Congress. He won't get anything substantial through Congress and everyone's attention will will rapidly shift to who is running in 2028. Nobody on the R side will be seeking or hoping for his endorsement; his leverage over them has been neutralized; they will be working on new messaging to get their traditional voters back. That campaign started on Wednesday.

Comment by humanlion87 5 hours ago

He has been pushing a lot of his agenda via executive orders. I doubt Congress is going to stop him since he can veto whatever he wants.

Comment by grey-area 20 hours ago

Sure, he's also a self-centred fool who hates being ignored and thinks he can run again in 2028. I expect him to bomb Iran in the next few days, and congress/senate to be too slow/weak to stop him.

Comment by SoftTalker 19 hours ago

I don't think so. I would not be a bit surprised if impeachment proceedings were started on January 3 (though I think it not to be the best use of their time, they certainly aren't going to listen to me).

Comment by Itoldmyselfso 3 hours ago

He's already been impeached twice, with very little coming out of it. Many republicans would have to truly abandon him for any drastic consequences to happen.

Comment by grey-area 10 hours ago

I fervently hope you're right.

Comment by Terr_ 15 hours ago

> Trump (come January anyway) is a lame duck now

I'm concerned that this might rest too heavily on the presumption of regularity and legality.

There's a lot of (additional) illegal stuff Trump could do if 33 out of ~44 Republican senators are willing to pretend it's not "enough" to remove him from office.

Comment by ted_bunny 4 hours ago

People always forget the Erdoǧan Principle. Democracy is a train. You take it to where you want to go, and then you step off.

Comment by sagarm 11 hours ago

This is cope. Trump is still very popular among Republican primary voters. An anti-Trump candidate faces an uphill battle with the base of the party.

Comment by fullshark 20 hours ago

[dead]

Comment by jiggawatts 22 hours ago

I’m surprised his tariffs didn’t have a bigger impact, I fully expected them to crater the US economy.

Comment by mandeepj 21 hours ago

The economy toppled the regime; At least, what Red leaders are saying. You are missing out.

https://x.com/JeffFlake/status/2118355575356727470

https://x.com/tedcruz/status/2118125881067487633

Comment by SoftTalker 21 hours ago

Always does. They forgot the organizing principle of Bill Clinton's campaign: It's the economy, stupid!

A lot of people liked Trump's brash and swaggering personality but not to the point that they stopped caring about their pocketbook.

Comment by jpadkins 20 hours ago

is it possible you were mislead?

Comment by selectodude 20 hours ago

The American consumer might be the most resilient thing on the planet. Blows my mind but there you have it.

Comment by 21 hours ago

Comment by UltraSane 20 hours ago

They were basically just a national sales tax.

Comment by sagarm 11 hours ago

Nope, because it was also a tax on inputs. Worse, supply chains that crossed the border multiple times would be taxed multiple times. The chaos also made it impossible to plan.

Comment by asdff 22 hours ago

He’s great if you are in his circle due to the prolific insider trading opportunities. Might be the most lucrative presidency ever for some people in this country.

Comment by evidenceisfasci 23 hours ago

[dead]

Comment by jerlam 19 hours ago

This election was different in that the polling leading up to the election was more incorrect than usual, but in the opposite way as previous recent elections. People made financial decisions based on those bad polls. This wasn't the usual midterm backlash.

Comment by lesuorac 19 hours ago

What plan did people make that falls apart when Democrats aren’t in office for a couple months?

Comment by Forgeties79 21 hours ago

This is a myth. You can see in both 2018 and 2020, both of which saw Democrat victories, that NASDAQ composite actually went up within 24 hours. Same with the dow. You also see the nasdaq still up a week later in 2018. It was like 2% down in 2020 a week later, which is not meaningful for this argument especially given Covid is a confounding factor. I stopped doing research after this point for specific examples.

There is no meaningful trend or change that happens after elections. Some sector see some weird shifts that correct generally within days

Comment by chasd00 16 hours ago

That’s what I said, the market swings and then eventually comes back to normal.

Comment by dgellow 21 hours ago

You can say Elon

Comment by horns4lyfe 22 hours ago

Who are you talking about?

Comment by johnsimer 22 hours ago

Elon Musk, on the Dwarkesh podcast

Comment by apt-apt-apt-apt 21 hours ago

Voldemort, presumably

Comment by dodger-dog 6 hours ago

"then it slowly trickles back up" as it slowly dawns on people that very littel has changed.

Comment by ajross 19 hours ago

> Happens every time Democrats win office

With all respect, that's ridiculous analysis. Even if that were true, the election was the day BEFORE yesterday! You're telling me that the entire world of trading and investment was unable to see the obvious news on their televisions and needed to wait an entire trading day before issuing the sell orders? No one was able to front run this?

That's just silly, sorry.

Comment by paulpauper 23 hours ago

Too much leverage if I had to guess. Stop losses got triggered at the correction threshold.

Comment by Choad_20261104 21 hours ago

[dead]

Comment by johsole 20 hours ago

> He who shouldn't be named

You had a good comment until this line.

Comment by chasd00 16 hours ago

If I had said Elon Musk then there would just be a sea of replies about how evil he is and then more about how amazing he is. It’s best to not even mention his name on HN if you want to stay on topic.

Comment by bryanlarsen 23 hours ago

The fate of the Bipartisan American Affordability and Jobs Act will be highly instructive. It's a bill that's fabulous for renewable energy, good for affordability, good for fossil fuel interests, and could likely pass with a filibuster-proof and veto-proof majority if the Dems don't sabotage it.

Almost all of the interconnect backlog is renewables, so this helps renewables far more than it helps fossil interests, but some progressives want to sabotage the bill because it could theoretically help fossil fuel interests. Yet, there's no way a "better" bill would get past filibuster or Trump's veto.

We'll find out if Democrats let the perfect be the enemy of the good enough. Whether they're willing to compromise to get things done.

Comment by HelloMcFly 23 hours ago

[dead]

Comment by cmiles8 23 hours ago

Given the election result the AI bailout ain’t coming, combined with growing concern AI spending has gotten too forward on its skis. That’s freaking out the markets.

Comment by BeratnaGas 22 hours ago

Congressional approval isn't required for an AI bailout.

Comment by rurp 15 hours ago

For any normal use of the term congress very much is required. They literally control federal spending. If you had some less common idea in mind you should explain it rather than dropping a one line comment that seemingly makes no sense.

Comment by peterbecich 17 hours ago

I don't think Trump can provision hundreds of billions for a bailout without Congress. Thank goodness.

Comment by paulpauper 22 hours ago

that is right. Trump did this with intel, metals, and other sectors and companies in 2025-2026 . what happens is $ for something else is appropriated for direct investment

Comment by Terr_ 21 hours ago

AFAICT there's a lawsuit over the Intel thing in Paisner v. Tan, but I'm not sure what its current outlook is.

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/esg/lutnick-defends-trumps-int...

https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/64069897/Paisner_v_...

Comment by no-dr-onboard 21 hours ago

privatize the gains

socialize the losses

we truly have learned nothing :/

Comment by paulpauper 22 hours ago

the market was up a lot yesterday though

Comment by directevolve 21 hours ago

Not AI stocks. They went the other way and fell further today.

Comment by russli1993 13 hours ago

exit liquidity

Comment by plaidfuji 22 hours ago

> Given the election result the AI bailout ain’t coming

And why should it have? Ridiculous to pre-emptively talk about a bailout before a crash has even materialized. Who exactly was going to be bailed out?

Comment by thephyber 20 hours ago

It's not ridiculous. Wall Street does this all of the time. It's managing risk and that involves forecasting what will happen in the future.

Maybe you don't like the possibility of Wall Street planning on a bailout, but they are constantly doing that and they also plant stories / narratives in the media encouraging it and they likely whisper in the ears of their politicians that it will "help save the economy" or whatever the FUD of the day is.

Comment by ChrisTrenkamp 14 hours ago

The DNC is thinking about a "No AI Bailouts" bill:

https://democrats-financialservices.house.gov/news/documents...

I'm not going to comment on the AI bubble, nor if this bill would actually have an effect, but I think this certainly will have an effect on Wall Street's behavior.

Comment by kimseungyong 8 hours ago

I understand the reason for trying to regulate data centers, but given the incredibly rapid pace of AI development and the resulting speed of social change, a temporary regulation could cause us to lose our initiative and miss the trend.

China fosters it intensively at the national level through totalitarianism.

In this rapid social change, democratic procedures may now lose their competitiveness.

Comment by hacker_9 20 hours ago

April 2025, nasdaq enters bear territory: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43587479

It's interesting reading the panic then in the comments, and yet now the nasdaq is up 65% from those lows, even with today's drop.

Comment by gonzalohm 6 hours ago

Wasn't that because of the tariffs?

Comment by notfried 22 hours ago

I wonder if Anthropic would pull its IPO plan. Considering the past few weeks, this seems like the worst period they could go public in. Not that it may get any better, but perhaps OpenAI deciding to wait next year was more reasonable.

Comment by gonzalohm 6 hours ago

Do you think next year is going to be more favorable? I think investors are wondering where their money is and how anthropic plans to be sustainable long term. But that's the same for every AI company

Comment by stubish 19 hours ago

I guess it depends on when they need to start paying for all the promises. They have run out of investors willing to take an IOU.

Comment by t1234s 23 hours ago

Depending on how long the bloodbath goes on this could be a massive buy moment similar to: dot bomb, 9/11, 2008, covid panic.

AI is not going anywhere and will only grow more and more.

Comment by InsidiousWombat 22 hours ago

AI isn't, but companies might. The share of tasks you need frontier AI is ever-shrinking and ones where open weight ones are enough is ever-growing.

It won't drop off by a cliff, migrating from existing tooling/vendor that works might just not be worth it, but it seems that there will be less and less money in the frontier

Comment by fauigerzigerk 21 hours ago

True, but open weights models need data centers too. So it depends on which companies we're talking about.

Comment by paulpauper 22 hours ago

agree. good dip buying opportunity

Comment by thephyber 20 hours ago

Or it could be a "catch a falling knife" opportunity. Too early to tell yet.

But if you look at where the money leaving tech stocks is going, it seems to be rotating into defensive stocks. If that momentum continues, we may have hit a local maxima for a while.

Comment by boguscoder 12 hours ago

Rotation seems to be slow: NATO etf is down as much as VOO today

Comment by bagacrap 13 hours ago

Dotcom was a good buying opportunity? First you had to wait 3 years for it to bottom. Obviously after three years of pain, the dip buyers are all 6 feet under. Even then there was no v shape recovery. Only 2008 and COVID had the quick recovery and long subsequent bull run for tech. But neither one of those was a one day drop. So yeah. Your comment is just cope.

Comment by 2OEH8eoCRo0 22 hours ago

Bags getting heavy?

Comment by MaxPock 23 hours ago

Are we still in the golden age ?

Comment by paxy 23 hours ago

Tuesday - "Market falls because of election"

Wednesday - "Market soars because of election"

Thursday - "Market plummets because of election"

Can we at least agree that no one has any idea what is going on?

Comment by delecti 22 hours ago

All of them can be true, while still not providing any predictive utility.

Comment by bagacrap 13 hours ago

And they can all be false. GP's point is that the reporting always suggests causation when causation is rarely if ever knowable.

Comment by ricksunny 22 hours ago

Everyday “Our newspaper makes money by editorializing every tick change in the [$index] market by attributing unverifiable context and not referencing the previous tick we editorialized.”

Comment by mancerayder 21 hours ago

The trick with news media is the word As.

"Market drops 3% as Foo"

Comment by fauigerzigerk 21 hours ago

OK, they are jumping up and down but they're doing it in the most efficient way possible. It has been proven time and time again!

Comment by 233mhz 22 hours ago

[flagged]

Comment by johnsimer 21 hours ago

What about black dudes, asian dudes, or other other colors of rich dudes? What would you say the stock market is for them?

Comment by roodypoo2 18 hours ago

Please go back to Reddit

Comment by mancerayder 21 hours ago

Reddit has entered the chat.

Thanks to whoever added that sub, now we have rubbish like this.

Comment by momocowcow 22 hours ago

We’re back to the same level as 6 months ago. Super scary stuff

Comment by ambicapter 21 hours ago

So scared right now.

Comment by 10xDev 1 day ago

No new frontier (Astra / Fable) releases in a while. Actually none since the “pacing the frontier” post. Safety maxxers might cause an AI winter if this is what’s holding them back.

Comment by runako 23 hours ago

> No new frontier (Astra / Fable) releases in a while.

Am I crazy? Wasn't Astra released just over a month ago? And wasn't Fable 5.1 released around the same time?

How often do we expect frontier models to be released?

Comment by paimapi 23 hours ago

GPT-5.6 Sol was July 9 > GPT-6 Sol was September 22 (75 days)

Fable 5 was June 9 > Fable 5.1 was September 1 (85 days)

Opus 5 was July 24 > Opus 5.5 was September 22 (61 days)

Yeah, we're not due for a model refresh until the end of month if current release roadmaps of 2-3 months hold.

Comment by m_w_ 23 hours ago

Leaks, for what they're worth, indicate that the next GPT model is soon (tomorrow rumored), and that Fable 5.5 is already ready-to-go. That said Fable is likely being held to drown out said GPT release, since Anthropic is already ahead w/ Opus 5.5.

Comment by cavemandaveman 23 hours ago

Presumably it's more directly the fear of data center projects being blocked

Comment by jLaForest 23 hours ago

even if frontier AI development stops where it is today, i would have a hard time calling this an AI winter. I cant imagine AI wont be a major part of my dayjob for the forseeable future

Comment by lenerdenator 23 hours ago

> investors accelerated their move away from technology stocks on fears of a data-center buildout slowdown.

So, approximately how many of those investors are going to lose their jobs and their money for betting on data center buildout while also going about the data center buildout in the most obnoxious, exploitative, electorate-alienating way possible?

Comment by Tadpole9181 1 day ago

> Plummets

Still +4% YoY.

24/7 sensationalist news is just exhausting.

Comment by dcrazy 1 day ago

+4% YoY and -4% in a day are vastly different in timescale.

Comment by nothercastle 23 hours ago

And at 4% suddenly not keeping up with inflation or treasuries

Comment by overfeed 21 hours ago

Ironic, how some people act like they don't understand gradients when it comes to AI-related share prices.

Comment by Tadpole9181 23 hours ago

Intel lost 50% of its value in a week. But it's up 50% from last year.

Anyone paying attention knows the market is in a weird place, and large swings today are the small swings of the past. It's hardly a "plummet" when the amortized line for the past month, including today, is mostly a linear decline.

We've had a couple of single-day 4% drops over the past few months too. Oh no, the market is the lowest it's been in... 3 months!? This is the largest decline we've seen in... 4 months!?

Could it be a market correction? Could it be a full-on collapse? Sure.

But is a single 4% drop worth a headline "plummeting into correction territory"? Not really.

Comment by kgwgk 23 hours ago

> Could it be a market correction?

That term has a very specific meaning in that context.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_correction

[ For the record, the link I originally included: https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/stock-market-today-dow-sp-5... ]

Comment by Tadpole9181 23 hours ago

JSYK, that's a paywalled link.

Comment by thomassmith65 1 day ago

Reporting on the stock market generally is overwrought (stocks always "soar!", "plummet!", "rocket!") because the kind of typical events are inherently repetitive. Sports reporting is the same.

That said, the Nasdaq hasn't seen a lot of -4.8% days recently. This particular article isn't egregious.

Comment by 23 hours ago

Comment by paulpauper 23 hours ago

Agree. it's not that big of a deal. i will be buying dip

Comment by bagacrap 13 hours ago

Why were you in cash to begin with?

Comment by zamadatix 1 day ago

Seriously, according to the headlines I've seen shared here since June you'd think the market got wiped out 5 or 6 times.

This is a bigger jump, but it's also immediately after elections and other activity so I'd expect higher volatility than normal.

Comment by 1 day ago

Comment by bagacrap 13 hours ago

> Still +4% YoY.

Do you think people who buy QQQ are impressed with this?

VTV is up 21% yoy btw.

Comment by bjourne 19 hours ago

Great! The false belief that stocks must endlessly increase in value is a cancer on society. More wealth for the billionaire class does not mean more wealth for you.

Comment by sowbug 18 hours ago

By "value," do you mean real or nominal?

Comment by bagacrap 13 hours ago

Many stocks cost less than $1B. I own a few of them myself.

Comment by burger_moon 22 hours ago

Would paying for the interconnections and transmission infra have been cheaper than the sum of value lost to the market in one day?

Comment by paxy 22 hours ago

What does "sum of value lost" mean?

Yesterday Nvidia's market cap was 4.89T. Today it is $4.45T. What happened to the $440 billion? Do you think we could have built factories with it?

Comment by fauigerzigerk 21 hours ago

I doubt it would have stopped politicians from exploiting the issue, but the answer to your question is yes. Companies could have spent more money on energy infrastructure, which would have increased their cost and - all other things being equal - lowered their share price.

That said, a lower share price is not a cost to the company, except perhaps in terms of stock based compensation.

Comment by burger_moon 21 hours ago

If the market cap is based on future earnings growth (forward thinking) and those earnings are now couched by a lose of ability to build data centers then these tech companies could have issued shared or offered bonds to build out the interconnections they require. So, yes.

Comment by 21 hours ago

Comment by somewhereoutth 19 hours ago

Stocks are priced on the margin, which means the last sale sets the price, and so the market cap for the whole float. The $440B never really existed. But it could have been used as collateral for loans which would turn it into 'real' money. However when the price falls, those loans may be called in, and so the 'real' money is destroyed. If these loans have to be be paid off by selling the stock, then we enter a deleveraging spiral.

Theoretically the market cap should equal the present value of expected future returns (dividends and buybacks, not speculation), modulo risk, but that assumes a perfect market.

Comment by bagacrap 13 hours ago

> Theoretically the market cap should equal the present value of expected future returns

Did you just wake up from a 30 year nap or?

Comment by elmer2 21 hours ago

[flagged]

Comment by eli_gottlieb 17 hours ago

I remember the Biden years being quite good for finding a job, and the Trump years being quite bad.

Comment by thephyber 20 hours ago

This is revisionism.

It's a "shitty economy" today because

(1) Interest rates were generationally low for an extended period of time from 2009 - 2022. We will likely never see that kind of sugar rush again in our lifetimes.

(2) Trump made a deal with OPEC+ during the early days of Covid to drastically cut supply for some fixed time interval. That agreement hurt our economy coming out of Covid.

(3) Consumers completely changed their behaviors and the supply chain had lots of random kinks in the flow of goods. Some countries still maintained closed borders. Ports had months log backlogs of ships waiting to offload cargo as shipping containers were in short supply where they were needed.

(4) The price of eggs and pork were massively inflated because of avian+swine flu outbreaks which we normally deal with by killing the entire flock.

(5) The west coast had a massive drought and a terrible fire season. This was awful for farming/ranching and we still haven't rebuilt the cow herds that shrunk from those years.

(6) Capitalism demands constant efficiency improvements. If they can avoid a full time hire by instead using independent contractors, they will. If they can create an industry of gig workers instead of long term contracts, they will. The entire economy has been rebalancing risk and uncertainty on the backs of workers and away from companies. This causes all sorts of drops in quality of life, consumer sentiment, financial security among the society.

Biden's regulatory regime had almost nothing to do with the efficiency of the economy during his term. Just because he didn't open more of Alaska's wilderness to fresh drilling or because he didn't approve the KeyStone XL pipeline didn't have any noticeable effect on the US economy (except perhaps to keep some more truck drivers employed).

Comment by goatlover 21 hours ago

His "radical base" would be centrists in Europe and Canada. It's so annoying to constantly her right-wingers denounce the Democratic party as being overrun by "radical leftists" when it's mostly a moderate neoliberal party with some progressive and more recent DSA types. And the Democrat's economic policies are normal ones in most advanced economies. Bernie and AOC are basically the 21st century equivalent of FDR.

Comment by jayGlow 20 hours ago

the American economy is stronger than both Canada and the EU. the US consistently has more growth and GDP per capita than Europe. what defines something as an advanced economy?

Comment by zbentley 17 hours ago

Macroeconomic strength is famously … let’s say “only tenuously correlated” with things like quality of life, social mobility, household-level economic stability, and lots of other aspects of social welfare (e.g. education, health risks and access to treatment, sustainable demographic trends and infrastructure practices).

I’m not saying Europe is automatically better on those axes, but even the least charitable assessments have it very competitive with the US on several.

All of which is to say: “well if our politics are so backwards how come we have so much economic/military power?” is a structurally useless question to ask, because those things are not correlates the way people think they are. It’s like asking “if your car is so much safer than mine, how come mine is so much faster?”

Comment by jasonmp85 21 hours ago

[dead]

Comment by jdlshore 20 hours ago

> The end result was the start of the shitty economy and job market we see today.

The current economy being Biden’s fault, and not tariffs, corrupt tax cuts for the rich, and oil blockades, is certainly a take.

Judging by the recent elections, I’d say most US voters don’t agree with that take.

Comment by Vaslo 23 hours ago

[flagged]

Comment by goatlover 20 hours ago

Too bad there wasn't more right-wing resistance to the war in Iran.

Comment by IAmGraydon 21 hours ago

Interesting. So how do you explain yesterday? The market just wanted to pause for a day?