AI fan wikis riddled with errors are muddying the waters of games culture
Posted by rdmuser 9 hours ago
Comments
Comment by jonathanberger 8 hours ago
If the solution merely makes it high friction to post AI content that is probably good enough. In other words if someone has to copy/paste the output of an LLM into a text field and even then the tech detects that and throws an error that would be a big step in the right direction.
Reddit, Wikipedia, fan wikis, reviews, Hacker News comments - I'm sure there are a dozen more categories I'm missing.
Comment by Levitating 1 hour ago
I don't think the boundary should live at human-written or AI-written, it should just be factual.
This weekend I was playing Stalker 2 and got frustrated that the trader prices in the game seem nonsensical. I spent a lot of time trying to research the mechanic but most guides and some wikis are outright wrong. They either buy into the games marketing or just assume mechanics work as expected.
So what I did was I let Claude read through my game files. 5 minutes later I ended up with a document that very concretely explains all the factors that influence trader prices with references to the game scripts to back it up.
My point is that having AI write game wikis is fine, as long as the information is verifiably correct.
Comment by OgsyedIE 8 hours ago
We can put these together to conclude that every game and community that lacks that kind of dedication will die out and be replaced by psychologically personalized short-form dopamine-agonist videos, as exemplified in an infamous comic:
Comment by probably_wrong 6 hours ago
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Comment by __MatrixMan__ 5 hours ago
Comment by Al-Khwarizmi 5 hours ago
In other words, signatures don't address the fact that a human can ask an AI model for content and then sign it to pass it as their own.
Comment by oneeyedpigeon 4 hours ago
Comment by Al-Khwarizmi 2 hours ago
Comment by pas 3 hours ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_a_sucker_born_every_...
Comment by notabotiswear 4 hours ago
Comment by RataNova 3 hours ago
Comment by bawolff 4 hours ago
I think its working so far.
Wikipedia has always been different from other sites for leaning more on human labour instead of automated systems (so-called "soft security" https://meatballwiki.org/wiki/SoftSecurity ).
Comment by onion2k 4 hours ago
It needs to be verified. That's all. That could be by a human, but it could be by AI. The point is that any content that's written by AI might be wrong, so if you're not checking it you can't trust it. AI is pretty good at checking it's own work.
I imagine with a fan wiki (or company docs in my experience) no one bothers to put the effort in. That's probably because the rewards are for writing the content, and there's absolutely no reward for checking it's correct.
Comment by oneeyedpigeon 4 hours ago
Comment by bakugo 5 hours ago
Comment by __MatrixMan__ 5 hours ago
Comment by soon_to_be_sb 4 hours ago
Incentives will make sure that this new web will become the old one given enough time.
Comment by soon_to_be_sb 4 hours ago
Comment by LtWorf 4 hours ago
Comment by grey-area 4 hours ago
I'm afraid your dystopian future where the zone is flooded with shit and nobody can trust anything seems eminently plausible, partly because the internet was built without identity.
I think to solve this you'd have to have strong proofs of identity locked to biometric identifiers. We'll probably need that anyway for other reasons.
It's not a trivial problem. Websites like this could require webauthn tied to a hardware identifier of their choice (like a fingerprint or faceid) - I'm not sure if webauthn provides that level of detail to providers (which method was used), and how secure that attestation is. Of course that's not going to be popular but it might be the lesser of two evils.
Comment by Terr_ 3 hours ago
That's what surveillance-capitalism wants, but what regular people need is something which is easier to supply and less likely to be turned against them: A lesser proof of "I invested enough time/effort/money into this identity that I'll be hurt if its reputation craters".
Comment by grey-area 3 hours ago
I'm not sure I share your concern about surveillance capitalism - that ship sailed long ago - you are stored in many nation-state and corporate databases under all the aliases, phone numbers, IPs you've ever used. I sincerely doubt your opsec has always been even near good enough to evade this surveillance, it's a little late to start worrying about it now, particularly when there are other concerns.
I'd be more concerned about billionaires spending on bots impersonating humans to sway elections in my local state than a nation state snooping on forum comments and linking them with something else.
Proof of identity is badly needed in order to use the online spaces we've come to know and trust, and time is running out.
Comment by intended 22 minutes ago
Utilizing terms like surveillance capitalism, doesn’t serve as a useful deterrent, because the underlying system has changed.
Previously Bots were piloted to be marginally effective at appearing to be normal users. With LLMs, that’s basically out of the window.
At this point your false positive detection rate is going to start hitting human users.
Users are also going to accept AI content. Simply because their feeds are going to provide it to them.
It’s cheap, and it achieves the same dopamine hits that human interaction will achieve.
Unless you are knowledgeable in a field, you wouldn’t be able to make out if something is off.
The most likely positive outcome is we see bots that take on bridging roles in conversations.
The question I would ask is why would and who would, pay to verify a user is human ?
Comment by croes 4 hours ago
Comment by pjc50 4 hours ago
Comment by grey-area 4 hours ago
Comment by anal_reactor 4 hours ago
Case in point: the proliferation of furcons.
Comment by ajsnigrutin 7 hours ago
Comment by intended 6 hours ago
The unspoken assumptions that underpinned the web included the idea that it was made by humans and that content generation couldn’t be mechanized.
There are already YouTube ads for services that Humanize AI output.
The best analogy is that we are at the start of the Dark Forest era of the net.
I assume people will adapt, based on the things that don’t change. If you cannot make out authenticity of participants, then you index on correctness of argument. If the output is useful to you, then you got what you needed and can move on. A more transactional and less community oriented web.
Comment by XenophileJKO 4 hours ago
I think fundamentally you are right. People or AI will generate artifacts of value and a system will evlove to find that value. Partially because there will likely be a financial incentive to do so.
Comment by intended 8 minutes ago
We are no longer on a web that assumed humans first.
LLMs can shitpost like the best of us. I’ve had to point out content was AI generated so many times that its futility is apparent.
Consumers have more to consume.
A new category of producers can provide.
If the content produced is close enough to the real thing, is cheaper, then that’s enough to change consumption patterns.
You would need to identify some attribute of content that cannot be replicated at scale, for the old system to persist.
Currently the average output of an LLM matches the average output of an online conversation. It’s only when it’s pushed or put in front of an expert in a domain that its weaknesses are apparent.
Unless everyone becomes an expert, I’ll output is a good enough substitute.
Comment by bayarearefugee 7 hours ago
There is no solution (though there will be plenty of grifters trying to sell one).
The open internet we currently know will be lost to mountains of slop just like usenet and email were even prior to the AI era.
Comment by dorkwood 3 hours ago
Comment by xlayn 8 hours ago
When AI started I got a copy of 6 months before of wikipedia and open street map.
At some point you cannot trust anything because everything has been touched by everything as a regurgitation of everything.
Comment by rdmuser 8 hours ago
Comment by oez 7 hours ago
Comment by Svip 5 hours ago
Comment by vconnor 5 hours ago
You know it’s not gonna be updated, because it was created on a whim and the author has already moved onto 79 other projects since.
Comment by cwnyth 6 hours ago
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Comment by jacquesm 8 hours ago
AI is rotting pretty much everything that was carefully curated over the last couple of decades. If it can be expressed in bits it will be degraded. This is one of the most annoying side effects of AI, the general decrease in quality. Quality of discourse, quality in literature, quality of information, quality of software. It's everywhere.
Comment by gboss 8 hours ago
Comment by Terr_ 8 hours ago
The problem I'm already having with LLMs (in miniature) is code/comments/docs where I don't know whether it's someone's intent or whether its un-reviewed LLM babble. That creates a continual stumbling block for figuring out whether the thing should be the way it is, or whether I'm looking at an unusually-coherent error.
Take the exact same messy pile of bytes but promise: "Everything in this made sense to a human at some point in the process", and that changes how one approaches the problem.
Comment by goda90 8 hours ago
Comment by nightski 7 hours ago
Comment by jacquesm 7 hours ago
Whether AI written code is going to be better in the longer term remains to be seen. With what I've looked at so far I'm not super optimistic about this.
Comment by bulbar 5 hours ago
To me it has become clear that LLMs will, on average, improve the code quality by a lot.
Comment by themk 4 hours ago
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Comment by krige 7 hours ago
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Comment by Springtime 7 hours ago
The ones I came across just contained nebulous prose with variously incorrect info about the game on a few barebones pages, with a custom domain name. They weren't using any wiki software.
I have uBlock Origin installed so not sure if the purpose was ads but I was baffled as to what the goal would be otherwise since they're useless for proper information, let alone a wiki.
Comment by vintermann 5 hours ago
Maybe there are other people selling the tools, who try to convince the former people that what they're doing is smart and profit will roll in any day now.
Anyway it would be a mistake to think something is profitable just because someone bets on it.
Comment by grey-area 4 hours ago
If it was all clearly completely incorrect, it wouldn't be such a huge problem, but it is plausible and hard for humans to detect in a short time unless it is long form text.
Even search providers are giving us this new kind of generated result at the top of their results, which most people will be using blindly to verify answers. So it's turtles all the way down.
If you're not a domain expert you have no idea which things are right and which are wrong so it's very hard to determine the truth or trust results.
To top all that, LLMs are being trained on this new untrustworthy data without differentiating it from older data, and trained by other LLM instances in a sort of recursive loop to improve performance on very narrow goals. What could possibly go wrong!
Comment by jrmg 6 hours ago
For example, try searching about what sort of nails you should be using to attach cedar lap siding.
On Google, you might find a few good results, but you’ll really need to scrutinize them to make sure they’re reliable. Most are slop on the ‘blogs’ of siding and roofing contractors.
On DDG, it’s even worse. Usually nailerguy.com ranks highly - it seems to be completely AI generated, complete with contradictions and impossible pictures. And, often, nailicy.com, a (seriously) nail salon in New Hampshire that I’m sure is confused about why all their web traffic isn’t translating into clients.
YouTube is about the only ‘reliable’ source for recent advice.
Comment by throwaway219450 3 hours ago
Don’t get me started on Google’s propensity to show a full page of unwanted shopping results now without any way to show websites unless you turn verbatim on. “Brand picks” what garbage.
Comment by jasona123 6 hours ago
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Comment by oefrha 6 hours ago
It’s the shit tier free or super low cost AI hallucination engines used by the masses that are the problem.
Comment by Tiberium 6 hours ago
Comment by RataNova 3 hours ago
Comment by krige 4 hours ago
this is such an emblematic thing for the slop peddlers
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Comment by mmooss 4 hours ago
The problem here is Google. Bad websites have always been around.
Comment by grey-area 4 hours ago
Comment by bawolff 4 hours ago
Bonus points for also filtering out paywalls.
I'm tired of search results being useless. The signal to noise ratio on internet search is much worse now a days.
Comment by 1317 2 hours ago
Comment by RataNova 3 hours ago