So I guess everyone uses LLMs to think now
Posted by xyzeva 13 hours ago
Comments
Comment by rolosa 12 hours ago
>
> i don't know how more people don't experience this, but staring at an llms output be confidently wrong eventually to get there in the process, or looking at the commands its running and see some really stupid things its doing drives me crazy to the point i will just stop it before it answers, i cannot handle something being that confidently wrong (even though it'll probably still get there in the end)
When people say stuff like this, that they've used LLMs before and hated it, and then list off a bunch of stuff about how they're confidently wrong and all this other stuff, my only question is when? When was the last time that they used an LLM? three months ago, six months ago, one year ago, two years ago?
Comment by valiant55 11 hours ago
Comment by adamddev1 12 hours ago
Comment by Aurornis 8 hours ago
Do you have a share link to the session?
Why is every confident claim about a frontier model being brutally wrong about something presented without any details or evidence? It’s so trivial to share even details like what language was used, but even that had to be obscured for some reason.
Comment by Calavar 12 hours ago
Comment by sejje 11 hours ago
And it's an easy explanation for why one person can be getting "confidently wrong" results still, and another person hasn't experienced it in a long time.
I'm one who hasn't experienced it lately. I haven't even thought about it in quite some time. Maybe a domain thing, maybe I'm not doing fancy enough work, maybe that guy is using some shitty model.
Comment by ragequittah 9 hours ago
Comment by Aurornis 11 hours ago
1. The AI box at the top of Google
2. The voice assistance on their phone when they tried it a long time ago. Some question they asked Siri in 2025 and got a bad answer for.
3. ChatGPT free tier.
For a while you’d find someone who got assigned an AI tool at work but their administrator limited them to the cheapest model for cost savings, but most companies are wising up.
I also talked to a developer last month whose company had never let them use anything beyond Sonnet. When I told him I used Opus for everything his eyes went wide because he assumed I was spending thousands of dollars per month. However now that the latest Sonnet is very good, even this category of exposure is decreasing.
I think in 2027 as advanced models become more common we’ll see less of these claims about AI not working well when they tried it. There will be holdout group of people who refuse to try anything new, but the world is moving on.
Comment by ragequittah 9 hours ago
Comment by LPisGood 12 hours ago
Comment by bscphil 12 hours ago
Have all these gotten a lot better in the last year? Sure! But there's still a several-orders-of-magnitude difference in quality between whatever garbage tier of GPT-6 Luna you can use for free on `duck.ai` (just for one example) and Opus 5.5. Or even GLM 5.3 Flash. It's a way bigger difference than the improvement in ~free models has made up for in the last year, even though those improvements have been substantial.
I think a certain sort of person, if they do try to use something better along with a coding harness, as also immediately inclined to read along with the reasoning traces - and understandably gets freaked out by the nonsense it contains. That's a mistake, I think; not just because models behaving "reasonably" doesn't depend on the rationality of their reasoning traces, but also because I think if you transcribed my brain activity into a serial stream of text, I'm not convinced it would be more coherent.
Comment by musicale 9 hours ago
I assume they don't want to pay for something that would make search results better rather than worse.
Comment by xyzeva 10 hours ago
the main point of the article isn't this and a lot of people seem to be focusing on it though, it's me describing why i personally don't want to use an LLM
and what i'm describing specifically there is the concept of the CoT and the tools it's executing. i see it doing something stupid and my instinct is to stop it, it does usually eventually get there in the end
as i point out right below, llms are super powerful. i'm not arguing that. i'm arguing that we should stop disregarding ethics for marketing and also generally have fun ourselves without llms in personal projects (not work) specifically.
Comment by seba_dos1 5 hours ago
Comment by zarify 1 hour ago
(I use LLMs for lots of things. They’re useful for lots of things. Gemini 3.8 also feeds me lines of complete bullshit every couple of days.)
Comment by floren 10 hours ago
Comment by xpct 12 hours ago
Comment by black_knight 12 hours ago
I can work on ideas with LLMs, even within my own area of expertise. They know quite a lot, and can take an idea I have and run with it. I would never trust them to be correct, but if I give them a new idea and ask them to work out details and raise any issues they find, I can quickly evaluate their findings, and take them into account when developing the idea further.
I do not do this on all ideas, not even most. Most of the time it is still me, a sheet of paper or some code. But still, comparing to how it was a year ago, it is night and day!
A year ago I would just close the window after the first reply, shaking my head at its stupidity. I can still get that experience by using anything but Opus 5.5 or Fable. I tried the $20 ChatGPT tier last week and was immediately thrown back to that old annoyance! (I am sure the best OpenAI models are fine)
Comment by two_handfuls 12 hours ago
Comment by adamddev1 12 hours ago
Comment by ragequittah 9 hours ago
Comment by sejje 11 hours ago
Or my coworkers?
Comment by 9dev 12 hours ago
Comment by xpct 11 hours ago
I would also wager that OOP knows LLM limits quite well, and a more interesting discussion would be for why someone perceives LLMs as dumb as opposed to speculating whether they're aware of the frontier or not.
Comment by 9dev 47 minutes ago
That is just my point though; these things still do happen, but much, much, much fewer than they used to, and this changes massively every month - both due to improvements in the models themselves, but also experience gained from operating them.
Forming an opinion on using agents for software work once, and then treating your experience as the status quo months later thus leads to wrong conclusions. If you give a model a way to evaluate its work in a short, closed feedback loop, you can orchestrate it to build correct systems pretty easily now. That definitely wasn't true even just three months ago.
If, however, you do not actually use this technology regularly, you will not be able to achieve good results, which objectively makes sense and wouldn't be different for any other skill either.
Comment by danpalmer 12 hours ago
The people I work with outsourcing their thinking to LLMs are struggling, and if I'm not careful they're creating more work for me in review and feedback. The people I work with outsourcing their codebases entirely to LLMs are producing some of the worst software I have ever used.
Comment by margalabargala 12 hours ago
It's been decades since beating the best computer at chess was possible. But people still play, because they find it fun to get better at.
The major difference being that winning a chess game doesn't yield a permanent artifact that is useful, generally.
It's fine this person wants to journal about the things they do privately for fun. They clearly aren't writing for others to read their work.
Comment by skissane 12 hours ago
LLMs can do an impressive job of writing code that meets some specification-but they still can’t beat humans at deciding what that specification should be. That’s especially true when it comes to non-functional requirements, e.g. what constitutes good coding style or good architectural choices.
> The major difference being that winning a chess game doesn't yield a permanent artifact that is useful, generally.
Chess has a single clearly defined “win condition”; coding doesn’t.
Comment by black_knight 11 hours ago
Comment by xpct 12 hours ago
I don't know, the prose and material is fine in my opinion. I do find the uncapitalized style a bit weird, but it's not something that stops me from reading it.
Comment by margalabargala 11 hours ago
Comment by HWR_14 12 hours ago
Comment by xyzeva 10 hours ago
it's a choice of typing this way, i don't like typing super formally, just not my thing, i'd rather type casually and most of my articles are sort of braindumps of what i think as i go, but historically i've been complemented very much on this style and i like doing it
Comment by margalabargala 9 hours ago
The lack of capitals damages readability for others. It's also a writing style strongly associated with arrogance and pretentiousness; but a specific variety of it. Not surprised you've been complimented on some corners of HN.
Every person I've seen on HN who drops capitals is invariably an arrogant prick about it and other things. It's a strong enough calling card that to write that way and be otherwise would be like having a moustache and explaining everywhere "no, I just really like Charlie Chaplain".
Comment by Gerlo 12 hours ago
The author of the blog post and the OP who submitted the article are the same person.
Comment by Grimblewald 12 hours ago
LLM's are good at solved problems applied to known or similar to known applications, otherwise they're not going to match humans.
Comment by yunnpp 12 hours ago
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Comment by Grimblewald 11 hours ago
So, the problem with AI is that it is a regression to some mean of minds + corporate bias introduced. It contributes at best one person worth of input variance and is wholly incapable of contributing efficiently or effectively. AI does not contribute effectively and units of insight offered per word read is abysmal for AI text, and so carries enormoys cognitive burden to refine the slop into the simole coherent point actually made, if there even is one, which you often don't know until the effort in refining has been expended. So, we introduce a lot of labor to discussuons by including AI when best case it may offer about as much variance a single person who is not willfully ignorant can offer.
So, I imagine I am not alone in this, and when I talk with humans, what I want is their mental model of the world to contribute, not some corporate mouthpiece i could query directly if that's what I wanted. AI is not exactly inaccessible.
So, i think most are hypervigilant in pointing out AI in their communities for a variety of reasons , but a common theme will be that those who use AI to do their thinking are a single entity in terms of what they actually add to the discussion, and spread over many people it is the age old spam problem, a single mind having disproportionate signal strength in a discussion where all voices should carry equal energy.
Comment by michelangelo 12 hours ago
It's probably a way to express freedom, like the freedom of just refusing to consume unreadable walls of text that disrespect the reader. Freedom goes both ways.
Comment by attila-lendvai 12 hours ago
eventually it became a habit and started to leak into more and more of my writing, including public writing. if i wrote something like a blog post, i would still capitalize it, though.
Comment by margalabargala 12 hours ago
The writing style is clearly not meant for others to read either. They just did stream of consciousness out of their brain and didn't proofread. It's not meant for external consumption.
Capitalization is something you do out of respect for your reader, to make things easier for them. If you aren't intending others to read your writing, then there's no one to disrespect, so why bother?
Comment by steve_taylor 12 hours ago
The blog author and HN user who posted are the same person. It was meant for external consumption.
Comment by margalabargala 8 hours ago
Comment by attila-lendvai 12 hours ago
(but i'm half joking here. normally i just don't capitalize, only the names.)
Comment by card_zero 11 hours ago
Comment by nomel 12 hours ago
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Comment by gray_-_wolf 12 hours ago
Comment by pretzellogician 12 hours ago
Non-capitalization may not seem like a huge decrease in readability, but every little bit counts.
Comment by flir 12 hours ago
(said in the same tone as "splitter!" in Life of Brian)
Comment by whateveracct 12 hours ago
at least, i don't think so heh
Comment by esalman 10 hours ago
Comment by refactor_master 12 hours ago
Comment by __del__ 12 hours ago
Comment by MrMetric 12 hours ago
Comment by sega_sai 12 hours ago
Comment by adamddev1 11 hours ago
Comment by gnabgib 12 hours ago
Comment by xyzeva 10 hours ago
i agree that LLM use in work as a software engineer is fully inevitable at this point, because we are all expected to move so fast
Comment by Aurornis 12 hours ago
The core piece of this blog post is that the author doesn’t use LLMs for fun work because they do the fun work to have fun. Okay. Nothing new there. I some times grow vegetables myself and eat them instead of buying them from the store because I think it’s fun. I don’t feel the need to go around sneering at people who offloaded all of their vegetable growing to someone else. I also don’t like associating with people who get smugly superior and condescending about their personal gardening.
In fact, even though I enjoy gardening and nerding out about it, I don’t like talking to the gardening snobs who have turned it into a part of their personality and who think it makes them superior to the lowly people who don’t garden.
And that’s the exact vibe I get from the articles like this, where the topic drifts into virtue signaling and criticizing the LLM users.
There have been an exhausting supply of these articles for the past few years, and there’s frequently a section like this in each of them:
> i truly have tried to use llms before, just to try it out. nothing i was going to publish as research, but i really couldn't and it left me never wanting to use an llm again
I won’t judge anybody for not using LLMs or for using LLMs for their fun work. Do whatever you want for fun! Don’t let virtue signaling posts like this one shame you into thinking there’s a right way or wrong way to enjoy your fun project time.
That said, I find that to get good discussion about the pros and cons of AI on our thinking you have to look beyond these people who just don’t get LLMs at all. You can’t really understand this topic until you’ve seen both sides.
I wouldn’t find it interesting to read an article on this topic from someone who never learned to program but only uses LLMs to write code because they do not understand the other side. Imagine seeing “I tried to learn how to code once but it didn’t really click for me. It left me never wanting to write code again.” Then they went on to talk about the brilliance of vibecoding with some collected examples of hand-written code causing problems. This article is essentially that, but from the other perspective.
Comment by xyzeva 10 hours ago
the takeaway i want is a. i would like people to still have fun and tinker around with things in their personal time instead of making an LLM do it all themselves b. i think we should stop compromising ethics for marketing
Comment by Aurornis 8 hours ago
I know why you included it, but it did reveal your level of experience with LLMs. That’s important context for any discussion like this.
> the takeaway i want is a. i would like people to still have fun and tinker around with things in their personal time instead of making an LLM do it all themselves
I know, you wrote that much in the article. That’s what I was responding to: I don’t especially enjoy when other people start taking strong opinions about how other people should and should not spend their personal hobby time. This is why I stay away from most of the online communities for my hobbies these days: The people with strong opinions about how others should spend their personal fun time and the right and wrong ways to enjoy personal time are really not fun.
It would be one thing to write about why you choose to spend your personal time this way. The part where it turned into disdain and got preachy about how other people weren’t doing the same thing was where you lost me.
Comment by esalman 9 hours ago
I will frequently ask LLM to do research. But I do that because I'm looking to learn from the process LLM implements, as well.
This became a problem recently when I started using Opus 5.5 for a project. It is able to take hundreds of step to (apparently) flawlessly execute a large/complex part of spec. But very recent updates to VScode has really made it hard to observe the process - by obscuring the reasoning blocks and file diffs.
Comment by nacozarina 10 hours ago
Comment by 01284a7e 12 hours ago
Comment by readthenotes1 7 hours ago
I'm somewhat surprised that there are punctuation and spaces between words.
It makes me wonder if there is a logical consistency
Comment by tayo42 12 hours ago
They do? Internet is filled with people complaining about it
Comment by lazyasciiart 12 hours ago
I don’t know how these people have stayed so oblivious to it happening all around them for decades. LLMs didn’t invent it.
Comment by hdndjsbbs 12 hours ago
Comment by denkmoon 12 hours ago
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Comment by pona-a 12 hours ago
Second order effects exist!
Comment by hdndjsbbs 11 hours ago
Comment by pona-a 3 hours ago
The point is by uncritically accepting this "technology" and not standing up to put any limits around its use, you're at best turning your job into a stressful data-labeling gig, and at worst helping your boss finally replace you.
Comment by rnd0 12 hours ago
Burning up tokens/credits needlessly as it does so. That might be a non-issue for people using LLMs through their work but as someone doing AI on a limited budget that's an issue that drives me up a tree!
Comment by Joker_vD 12 hours ago
Comment by strangecasts 9 hours ago
Comment by __del__ 12 hours ago
Comment by CamperBob2 12 hours ago
Let's talk about being "confidently wrong." I don't know if the original author is reading comments here, but if so: how long has it been since you had the experience above?
Have you noticed it happens less and less often as time goes on? And that the models take less time and fewer trials to "get there in the end?"
Because the rate of change is the important part, not the state of the art at the particular moment in time when you formed your opinion.
Comment by danpalmer 12 hours ago
I'd be interested to see benchmarks for this sort of thing plotted against cost, power usage, and elapsed time. If these are all sub-linear then that's great, but if some aren't that could be a real problem for LLMs in the long run.
Comment by jason_oster 11 hours ago
Plotting cost against power usage and elapsed time will tell you very little other than what the lay of the land is today. If you are truly concerned about the long term effects, then you need to account for long term evolution.
Comment by xyzeva 10 hours ago
also, they all get there in the end (as mentioned), but the CoT and command calls and tool calls they do get to me and my instinct is to just stop it right there
the takeaway i want isn't my personal reason on why i don't use ai but rather why people should still not use ai for personal projects, or hobbies. to have fun tinkering with things and coding still, outside of work!
Comment by pona-a 11 hours ago
OpenAI's harness can solve frontier math problems but the model alone is still a clofabulation machine. Its "intuition" did for a while get better from sheer scale, but we reached the optimum frontier for non-thinking models years ago.
Comment by CamperBob2 10 hours ago
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Comment by IshKebab 12 hours ago
Good for him but I don't think that justifies such a snooty position.
I will agree that it kinda sucks not being able to claim credit for your work. I've vibe coded or vibe finished several apps now that are extremely impressive, better than the existing alternatives. But I feel weird saying "I made this" because it feels like I barely did anything.
Comment by strangecasts 11 hours ago
Comment by dist-epoch 12 hours ago
https://github.com/google/paranoid_crypto
> The goal is to increase the confidence in cryptography use cases inside and outside Google. With Paranoid, any cryptographic artifact can be tested, but its primary motivation is to detect the usage of weak third party hardware or software black boxes.
So google didn't use their own paranoid_crypto lib to check the key before adding it to the Chrome trusted certs.
Comment by masfuerte 12 hours ago
Comment by Sytten 12 hours ago
Comment by strangecasts 10 hours ago
(Likewise I can see "you should have read through your generated code and understood the key points yourself" becoming the rule of thumb for keeping maintainers accountable in a project, keeping the pace of changes manageable, and keeping the codebase from becoming a rat's nest _only_ agents can work with)
Comment by emaro 11 hours ago
And I've seen the /s, but your comment seems to mock OP's point more than just trying to be funny.
Comment by pona-a 12 hours ago