Japan's trains are great. Why is booking one so hard?

I don't know for sure, but after living in Japan for 5 years now, whenever something in a Japanese business feels antiquated, inefficient, or just plain backwards and wrong, it's usually because some manager in an office who has been there longer than everyone else decided that it's good enough.

It probably sounds like I'm exaggerating, but loyalty to the hierarchy goes deep here. I don't know how many times I've had to hold my tongue and not state a fact because if I did, the manager would "lose face". Not an insult, a criticism, or even an open question, just a fact-- if I know it's contrary to what a manager thinks is the right way, he gets to sit back and keep his ego puffed up for no good reason.

Once my manager asked me to aggregate a list in excel to find a final count for a range of parts used in our blueprints. I used a pivot table in Excel. It took me about two minutes. He snapped back, "How are you doing this so quickly? It must be wrong. Do it like this:" and he proceeded to take a screenshot of each page of the sheet, send the screenshots to chatGPT, and ask it to aggregate them. Dear god I wish I was joking. It took him over an hour and still left room open for human error (or AI error I guess). I showed him the pivot table method, he just scoffed and walked away.

The title should be: why is booking one online so hard?

From my experience travelling in Japan, online booking is a mess. But every time, the solution was simply to go to the station, walk to the counter and ask. The guy will get you exactly what you need, may give you alternatives if what you want is unavailable, tell you about unusual connections, take into account whether you prefer to be seated together or if you prefer to leave ASAP. This is real service from competent tellers. And I am saying this as a tourist who practically can't speak Japanese. And for paying, cash always works. Alternatively, if you don't need to talk to someone, there are also some ticket machines that are rather well designed.

It turned out to be a better experience than in most other places that may have better websites and more digital payment options. Yes, you have to physically go to the counter, but the is a good chance you are going to be in train stations a lot, it is not really a problem.

It is millions of time better than some booking websites that are designed to extract as much money as they can from you instead of helping you (ex: low cost airlines). No, I don't want insurance, no I don't want extra luggage, no I won't pay extra to choose my seat, no I don't want priority boarding, no I don't want to rent a car, no I don't want a hotel, no I don't want your app, no I don't want to subscribe to your mailing list, yes, I know what I am not getting, don't try to upsell me a second time, I just want a ticket to my destination!

My experience was arriving by train company X to a large station, having bought what I thought was the correct ticket to continue with company Y. On the platform for company Y's train, there was a small sign in English reminding foreigners they actually needed two 'tickets' to use the train (just as the article mentions) and I'd only bought one of them. There was a machine just the other side of the adjacent ticket barrier to buy the missing part.

Except the custodian of the ticket barrier would not let me pass through to use the machine, since I had not entered through this barrier. He looked at my tickets, and said that since I had entered on company X's train, I must go to platform 48 or whatever and use the barrier there. I was on platform 1.

This was an enormous station, and I missed the intended train.

Another journey involved 7 printed tickets for a one way journey with a couple of changes.

But instead of simplifying this, the Japanese have invented a complicated ticket barrier where you can stuff in all 7 tickets together, and it clips the relevant one(s) and returns them in the correct order.

Lived in Japan for 4 years:

  - yes you need to speak and read Japanese
    - a lot of sites embed the information inside of images, not text, which is not that easy to translate automatically and your AI agent probably won't think to check it unless you use screenshot navigation by default
    - a lot of the booking will be done or expedited by phone calls
  - yes you need a Japanese phone number
  - yes you need a Japanese debit/credit card most of the time for online systems (or pay at the conbini, aka physical locations in Japan, American credits cards also work usually)

Japan is what it is. It's not super friendly infrastructure if you're not living there. No they don't want to change it.

Japan resident since 1983. I read Japanese fluently, but I also hate reserving Shinkansen tickets online. When I want to reserve, say, a one-way ticket from Yokohama to Osaka, I have to click through multiple popups warning me that I cannot pick up the tickets in Kyushu or Hokkaido (or something like that, I don’t remember the details) and various other things irrelevant to my trip. When I can, I prefer to buy paper tickets from the machines in the station; the interface is much better.

In addition to the various reasons mentioned by others, this inefficiency is partly the result of government-led deregulation aimed at promoting competition. JR used to be JNR, a single nationalized railway system. It was unified but customer-unfriendly, losing money, and prone to labor disputes. When it was privatized in 1987, it was divided into six companies by region (plus a separate nationwide freight company). While the various JR companies mostly cooperate with each other, and service has indeed improved overall (stations are much nicer than they used to be), the decentralization also leads to problems, including insufficient coordination among the companies about reservations and ticketing.

Another unintended consequence of deregulation has been the complexity and inefficiency of payments at the retail level. While 7-Eleven convenience stores accept several dozen types of digital payment [1], most retailers can afford to handle at most a few. As a result, different stores accept different combinations of payment methods. Some (including a small restaurant near my home where I eat once or twice a week) accept only cash, while others accept only digital payments (some forms, that is) and refuse cash-only customers. There’s a large department store near my home where I can pay with Suica on some floors but not on others.

It’s not unusual to get stuck in line at a cash register while the teller and a customer ahead try to figure out how the customer can pay.

It’s a mess.

[1] https://money-creditcard.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/seve...

A trick I've learned while traveling: a ticket attendant at any JR station can buy tickets for any JR line.

Don't try to buy online yourself. Don't try to buy at a busy major station like Kyoto.

Instead, go to the ticket/station attendant at your small, local station. They will be bored out of their mind and happily go out of their way to get you the correct tickets. They'll also explain what to do throughout your journey and how to correctly use the appropriate ones at the right time.

They're not likely to speak English though. I happen to be reasonably fluent in Japanese, but I hear translator apps have gotten quite good these days, so you might also be able to do that with those.

Buying tickets is a pain. You have to buy two tickets, and physically stack them together at the same time and feed into the machine at the gate.

Some trains and buses in remote areas only take cash. Some only take EXACT fare and the driver does not have change and will refuse you. I asked my hotel for exact fare by exchanging my foreign 10$ USD bill. The staff informed me it was illegal for them to exchange money. Lo and behold I looked it up and it is indeed illegal as you need a foreign exchange license.

Japan is bad, but South Korea was the stuff of nightmares when I lived there with a Mac. So awful you had no choice but to laugh.

IE6, ActiveX controls, and mandatory keyloggers for online banking: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_compatibility_issues_in_So...

I think it's cultural familiarity and resistance to change. My Japanese wife has no problem booking us tickets and it's been over 20 years since she left Japan -- the interface is probably the same as when she left Japan. People there are used to it and it's good enough for locals so no reason to change (even if it's more difficult for foreigners to use).

When I visited Japan with a friend in an area that's less touristy than other places, I had my wife book my bus/train tickets from the USA since the websites were so hard to navigate and it took a phone call to the bus company to book those tickets - she sent me a note to show at the ticket window to pick up the tickets.

Her mom complains when anything changes, it's been over 2 years since her favorite affinity card switched from in-person redemption to an online app and she still complains about the change.

As the joke says:

Japan in 1980 was 2000

Japan in 2000 was 2000

Japan in 2020 is 2000

  "2000 since 1990" first time I heard it 
  "2000 and stopped there" during 2010s
  "2000 since 1980" lately, post-COVID

Japan has "Super Tickets" because it allows you to combine a shinkansen ticket with other rail journeys and use a single base ticket to connect between any two stations on the network, many with different infrastructure owners. It's very convenient once you grok it.

Often the Super is printed on the base ticket if you buy it together.

But maybe you use an IC card or virtual IC card and put the super ticket on it using the SmartEx app and reschedule or cancel with a few taps. Some people do that instead of whinging about inflexibility of legacy systems that still exist but no one uses.

I think a fundamental issue is just that there are so many train companies. I don't think many (any?) other countries have quite so many, even JR isn't just one company. Even when individual companies put some effort into a renewal making things easier, when the experience starts from first finding out even which company to book from, there's a huge barrier to entry.

I think it is possible to define a booking standard so a meta provider could handle things, like trip.com etc for flights, maybe someday.

I already ranted a bit about this in my conclusion of this blog post [1], but I'm happy to rant again here: it's beyond my comprehension why planning a train journey in Japan has to be this messed up. You first have to figure out the route (and Google Maps doesn't have all the operators there, so good luck), then you have to figure out how to buy the ticket for said route - which is an entire different system for each operator (e.g: JR East and JR West are completely different in their booking system) - even if you do it in person, each operator has its own machine and some tickets cannot be bought by credit card.

Then you have to deal with the consequences of Japan never modernizing (trying to use a credit card for the online reservation is painful, although things are improving a bit on this side). A few years back, less than 5, it was also impossible to reserve a train ticket using a foreign credit card (non Japan-issued Mastercard, with 3d-secure). I also had a very negative experience using a virtual credit card as you need a physical one to pick up your tickets...

I always want to laugh and cry at the same time when I read their domain name for booking the ticket (because of course their app is only available in the Japanese Play Store / App Store): https://e5489.jr-odekake.net/e5489/ibpc/CBTopMenuPC?LANG=en

Try any other variation of the above URL and you get... a 404.

Anyways, beside this, it's such a beautiful country. Can't wait to go back again.

[1]: https://blog.denv.it/posts/goodbye-travel-agents-hello-ai-ag...

    > Google Maps doesn't have all the operators

The general problem is how to ensure quality in a low-competitive-pressure environment, especially public services which are natural monopolies. Quality only appears randomly if the right people happen to be in charge.

Look at what competition does in the AI model space. Imagine there was just OpenAI vs the actual case where there's Anthropic and others which pressure and copy each other.

I wonder if there's any solution to this, I couldn't think of any.

JR East is currently rolling out a new, streamlined booking portal. However, in classic Japanese style, attempting to access it from a non-Japanese IP returns a 403.

https://go.jreast.co.jp/

There was also news earlier this year that all the major JRs will introduce a unified booking portal in 2027, but I was unable to find any proof of life that this is actually happening.

Booking online may well be difficult.

But having traveled around Japan extensively, I've had a very easy time buying train tickets in person, at the station. You can buy in advance if you want, but I've rarely had any need; just go, and buy a ticket for the next train.

So I guess I'm not too surprised to see that the website design is crappy: it's an afterthought.

While I agree that online booking in japan can be difficult the frequency (especially between Tokyo and Osaka) allow you to book the same day easily. And especially first time going there limited express can be a bit daunting.

But once you get used to it; booking a ticket for shinkansen feel more alike buying a metro ticket than a airline ticket.

I have a different opinion about this after visiting Japan for the first time this summer. I think they need to accommodate an aging population with technological advancements. It's a classic problem of making old systems work with new technologies. And this in itself is a great achievement if you look at it holistically. Yes, young(er) people can complain that is to hard to buy train tickets or have to interact over the phone for things that can be accomplished online, while old(er) people will probably have harder times adjusting to things like contactless payments, but in the end they managed to make the entire society, as a whole, function and move forward. It can be done better? Yes, definitely, but I think this is iterative and it will improve over time.

Suica on an iPhone, job done? If it's shinkansen then use Smart Ex to load the ticket onto the card.

    > Samsung confirmed it's working with JR East to bring Suica and FeliCa support to Galaxy phones sold outside Japan starting in 2027.

  - JR East took the whole east half of Honshu from southernmost end of Tokyo area all the way to Aomori.
  - JR Tokai aka Central got just Nagoya area + later the entirety of the Tokaido Shinkansen, Tokyo to Osaka.  
  - JR West got the whole Osaka area and to the west of Honshu. 
  - JR Hokkaido, JR Shikoku, JR Kyushu got one giant island to themselves each.  

Tried to book an esoteric guide, website required activex, the book button wouldn't show up, didn't find out until later it was only activated during business hours. Some worker had to turn a toggle when they openned shop? There weren't many other options, ended up sending them a fax. All the Apple dick sucking and US bases and still can't get some whatsapp service like 3rd world countries.

Or you could just show up and buy your ticket/pay your fare on the spot like 99% of the rest of Japan.

Think I’ve only ever had to buy a ticket online once before in all my years in Japan.

Personally, I found a lot of systems to be a little behind regarding UX/CX in Japan.

Clearly once great and really ahead, but a little dated, by modern expectations.

A more puzzling aspect of it is, if you show up at a rural station near Akita, they'll sell you a multiple connection ticket to a rural station near Nagoya in seconds, using some hyperoptimized mainframe-terminal-style green-on-black text UI. A system that only requires you to know where you want to go does exist, maybe the problem is that every rail company has built their own version of such a system and there is an agreement to not compete online.

Apparently you need to use a Fax.

Oh the JR Group reservation system is too cryptic and unapproachable to you? Don't worry, it is to everybody. Except for hardcore train nerds and nerd-turned-company-employees. But even they would not deny that it is not very intuitive.

The problem is that all ticket systems that deal with JR Group has to be a front end to a system called the MARS System[1][2], and day-to-day operations of Japanese train and travel industry rely on its specific behaviors and intricate nuances, and that the collective of nerds and nerd-employees had adamantly refused complete changeover of the system for years. It's like you can have a webapp wrapping over the old 3270 terminal commands any way you want, but anyone with a badge and the uniform will insist that it's faster to have them hit the real analog buttons in the right order. Or just use Vi or mysql shell or something.

Some of JR ticket machines reserved for express trains with different frame colors compared to others are actually what are considered self service terminal of this MARS system rather than being ticket machines, and its UI is apparently close enough in structure that it even triggers the same unconscious habit of tapping the bottom 1/3 of the right part of the frame for retired or current employees. Which means it'll be unintuitive as it gets.

To effectively use the MARS user terminal and get JR tickets, you have to have a mental image of the ticket you are seeking to obtain, the MARS command sequence that yield that ticket, and operate the terminal accordingly, whether the terminal in front of you was the older crew terminal or newer terminal or its travel agency subvariant or the kiosk version stalls or one of numerous web interfaces or whatever it is. Some of fields such as seat numbers and choices of possible routes can be determined as you go, but in the way conforming the JR ticketing mechanisms.

I don't know enough about those stuffs myself nor I find that embarrassing. I just know enough to know it's called MARS System and if there were stations in "via" fields of a ticket that the train I will be on won't even be passing, it must be some MARS shenanigans. I certainly don't find it fair to expect someone just visiting Japan wanting to see some wooden temples and maybe try matcha, to be perfectly fluent with those. But if you were wondering why... ^this^ is why.

1: Pronounced mulls system like the Roman god. From the Wikipedia page: the original MARS 1 went online in 1960 and features were extremely limited. MARS 100 onward that replaced the original model were built on Hitachi mainframes. 305 onward were developed by a privatized JR Group company instead of the national company, JNR. Current iteration has the model number Series 500 MARS 505. https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%9E%E3%83%AB%E3%82%B9_(%...

2: https://www.jrs.co.jp/guideline/mars/

i think the idea is you get a suica card and tap it at the station

20 years ago I was in Japan with a prepurchased tourist train pass. It worked on all non-local trains, including regional and Shinkansen, and all the JR local trains in Tokyo.

Compared to what I'm reading in the link and in this thread, it was ridiculously easy, except perhaps the initial awareness of its availability, buying it, and getting it stamped by customs to prove I was in fact a tourist.

All I did every time I wanted to travel was go to a train station ticket counter with an English speaking agent, show the pass, tell them where I want to go, and they'd print physical tickets. In effect this bypassed all the friction discussed here.

I have no idea what this pass was called or if there's still an equivalent today. My recollection was it was time limited. It had an activation date on arrival and was good for a set number of days decided on in advance, which formed the basis of the cost. I remember thinking it was ridiculously cheap. I might have paid $300 for a 21-day pass?

"If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it"

I think Japan take this too far

Whenever I need tickets it has been a smooth experience via ekinet[0].

Just entering a code later in a ticket machine was enough to get it printed.

0. https://www.jreast.co.jp/multi/en/

> The most frustrating experience I had was booking a ticket online, only to get a message after confirmation: “You’ll need the physical credit card to retrieve your ticket at the station.”

Most (all?) airlines require this. In practice, it's only checked if your name differs from the name in the credit/debit card.

Other than that, the user fails to explain why booking a train is harder in Japan? They have multiple operators/lines but that's normal for a big/dense city like Tokyo.