‘You Are Done’: The letter sent to King by the F.B.I (2014)
Posted by surprisetalk 4 hours ago
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Comment by WillAdams 3 hours ago
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House of Representatives, U.S.
Part of Congressional Record --- Free
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND NAACP IN COLLUSION TO FORCE SCHOOL INTEGRATION IN VIRGINIA
Address by Honorable Harry Flood Byrd before the Richmond Kiwanis Club, Richmond, Va
Extension of remarks of HON. WATKINS M. ABBITT of Virginia IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Wednesday, April 3, 1957
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U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
Folks forget or underestimate how bitter the opposition to the Civil Rights Movement was.
I was taught to gut a squirrel by the son of a freed slave who lived behind the home in Virginia where my family retired to, he had worked alongside my grandfather as a sharecropper on my paternal grandmother's father's farm.
and it's worth noting that that county was one of the last to integrate in Virginia, facilitated by student teachers from a college in a nearby town whose post office is named for Watkins M. Abbitt.
Comment by jfengel 3 hours ago
White folks, that is. Black Americans are acutely aware of it.
Civil Rights legislation is being rolled back, to enthusiastic cheers. A lot of people never got over the Civil War, and are still trying to prove that somehow they were right all along.
Comment by dcss_gardener 2 hours ago
You had a generation of people making legal, hiring, sentencing, admission, loan decisions that smoothly transitioned from enforcing the law to being very concerned about standards or however they personally decided was the best way to publicly approach it within their little political sphere.
Then they selected and trained the next generation of administrators, bureaucrats, and enforcers about the "right" way to do this work. A lot of things have changed but at no point did this process end in any meaningful way.
Comment by paimapi 1 hour ago
We live downstream of that where people often parrot the same dogwhistles uncritically 40 years later without understanding how deeply racist they are.
Comment by _DeadFred_ 1 hour ago
Comment by paimapi 1 hour ago
https://journalistsresource.org/politics-and-government/raci...
If anything, you can thank most of the repeal of things like reproductive rights, the Voting Rights Act, etc and enshrinement of corporate personhood, gerrymandering, etc to the explicitly conservative project of The Federalist Society who now have the ruling majority in the Supreme Court.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/08/27/federalis...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideological_leanings_of_United...
Comment by pstuart 54 minutes ago
The only similarity in that regard is party leadership which is owned by the corporations and the rich.
Comment by chuckadams 39 minutes ago
Poe's Law in action I guess.
Comment by deepfriedchokes 1 hour ago
As President Lyndon Johnson said, "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket.”
Racism isn’t about race at its core, it’s redirected anger from being exploited and abused by people in power. There is a reason people in power always blame “the immigrants” or “the Jews”; it’s redirection.
Comment by InsideOutSanta 54 minutes ago
And it worked. Politicians do this because it works.
Comment by monkeywork 2 hours ago
Comment by Arainach 2 hours ago
States are aggressively attacking minority voting rights through several angles - reducing sites you can vote and hours you can vote at them, especially in minority areas, ID requirements that hurt people who don't own cars and thus don't need Drivers' Licenses (and are essentially a form of poll tax), and many other nefarious tactics.
Comment by datsci_est_2015 2 hours ago
And an extension of the progressive / conservative disagreement between how a system is designed vs. the impacts of a system determines its fairness and justness.
Edit: funny, I pre-sniped the sibling responses to your comment.
Comment by HEmanZ 1 hour ago
I think a lot of people miss this or pretend that the conservative position is just old-school racism (although it definitely is sometimes). But there are really hard philosophical, ethical, and political questions at the base of a lot our political problems. I think it helps keep people from arguing past each other if they can find out where the really "hard" part of their political disagreement actually is.
Comment by datsci_est_2015 1 hour ago
Comment by jfengel 1 hour ago
Comment by 0xDEAFBEAD 2 hours ago
Comment by InsideOutSanta 53 minutes ago
What do you think the state is but a gigantic social engineering project?
Comment by datsci_est_2015 1 hour ago
Comment by 0xDEAFBEAD 1 hour ago
I mean, every law will inevitably impact different groups at least a little differently. I'm not a fan of obsessing about race every time a law is written, no.
>What alternative history must one subscribe to in order to believe that ignoring disparate impact won’t end in humans rights abuses?
This seems like sloppy reasoning. If a person's rights are being violated, they ought to be able to make that argument in court without reference to disparate impact.
What we've seen in the US is the 90s "judge people as individuals" paradigm has been replaced by a "racial collectivism" paradigm. In recent years, this new paradigm was initially mainstream on the left, then became mainstream on the right:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev373c7wSRg
The "racial collectivism" paradigm is corrosive to individual rights, no matter who wields it. Furthermore, collectivist activity on the part of one ethnic group ends up being countered by collectivist activity on the part of other ethnic groups, in a doom spiral. The result is descent into hateful sectarianism. Scroll through X on any Tuesday to see what I mean.
>nuclear testing and proliferation disproportionately impacted the Navajo nation especially because they had absolutely no recourse against it? Are we just supposed to say “tough luck”? “Might makes right?” “Should’ve gotten a better lawyer?”
Consider a hypothetical where the town near the nuclear test has a population which is a perfect microcosm of the US in terms of race, gender, age, class, etc. No "disparate impact" argument can be possibly made in this hypothetical, since all of the racial "collectives" are equally harmed.
Does this change the fact that the nuclear tests are harming people? Or the best approaches to the problem?
Racial collectivism just isn't a good approach. People are more responsive to the needs of others when they view them as fellow humans or fellow citizens, not representatives of alien collectives.
Comment by esseph 1 hour ago
> I mean, every law will inevitably impact different groups at least a little differently. I'm not a fan of obsessing about race every time a law is written, no.
If it affected you directly, you might care.
Because it doesn't, you are in the position to pick and choose what you give your interest and energy to.
Comment by 0xDEAFBEAD 59 minutes ago
Comment by monkeywork 2 hours ago
I guess to put it more directly if we took a hypothetical black male named Steven and a hypothetical white female named Sally who have the same job, live in the same neighborhood, etc - what rights has been rolled back on Steven that were not on Sally.
Comment by YesThatTom2 2 hours ago
Meanwhile a white neighborhood has dozens of polling places, each with many machines.
Comment by 0xDEAFBEAD 1 hour ago
"Although we often talk in a partisan context about voter fraud and voter suppression and whether voters have access to the ballot, the reality is, over the past 25 years, we've greatly increased the convenience of voting for almost all Americans," said David Becker, the founder and executive director of the Center for Election Innovation & Research (CEIR), which authored the new report."
https://www.npr.org/2024/03/19/1238646047/voting-options-ear...
Comment by teachrdan 1 hour ago
If you actually read the article, you'll see that the argument is that, since the year 2000, it has (as of 2024) broadly become easier to vote. But:
"The South, with its history of slavery and Jim Crow laws, has long lagged behind when it comes to voting access. The CEIR data shows that, although some states have slowly started expanding options for voters, generally it is still the most difficult region for voters to cast a ballot."
And it's only gotten worse since. I strongly suggest you do some cursory research in the future before making comments like this.
(Also from NPR: https://www.npr.org/2024/03/05/1235521824/voter-turnout-race... )
Comment by jfengel 1 hour ago
* real efforts by some Republican-led legislatures to restrict access at the margins*
The lies about early voting, the lies about voting machines and efforts in some state legislatures to roll back some of the election integrity and convenience measures
He says that they "almost all" failed -- meaning some are succeeding, and they're always disenfranchising the same people. The average is better, but that doesn't tell you anything about those worst affected.
He's also not talking about gerrymandering, which has gotten worse and worse over time.
Comment by ZeroGravitas 1 hour ago
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Comment by Danox 1 hour ago
The Republicans lost California because Pete Wilson and the Republican Party in California (late 1980’s) could not shut their mouths up, demonizing Hispanics at every turn, it turned the whole state around to the Democrats, and the same group is slowly but surely turning Texas blue with every year that goes by. And the same is also true of Arizona and New Mexico, just keep demonizing Hispanics. It’s not going work out in the long term.
The next governor of California will be a democrat of Hispanic dissent the Republicans had better be nice/respectful to him because they are losing the Southwest slowly but surely, every year, and being respectful also includes Mexico.
Comment by expedition32 9 minutes ago
Comment by micromacrofoot 1 hour ago
One of the more direct actions was the dismantling of affirmative action, which was an intentional set of rules set to undo some of this historical aggregated harm.
Comment by YesThatTom2 1 hour ago
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Comment by micromacrofoot 1 hour ago
“You want to know what this was really all about? The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”
We're literally in a thread about the FBI trying to get Martin Luther King Jr to commit suicide, and you're waltzing in to claim that there's no evidence? There are piles of it! at least pretend to be arguing in good faith.
Comment by 0xDEAFBEAD 2 hours ago
The majority of non-US democracies require ID to vote, and it's considered normal and un-controversial. Here in the US, there is a tempest in a teakettle because this has been deemed a "civil rights issue". It really illustrates the role that "civil rights" plays in modern US political discourse.
Comment by yummypaint 1 hour ago
Americans manifestly do not have a right to possess a driver's license, it's a privilege. The process for obtaining one requires expenditure of time, energy, and money.
The only form of government "ID" that could presently meet the bar is social security cards, as every citizen has one by right. That is obviously a bad idea. There is no "move fast and break things" when it comes to democratic process. If something as important as this cannot be done right, then it should not be done. The right to vote is sacred and cannot be infringed upon, period.
Comment by 0xDEAFBEAD 49 minutes ago
Just get a state ID or passport then.
Comment by sham1 1 hour ago
For a point of comparison, here in Finland we require that a voter has a valid ID, that is an ID card, a driver's licence with a photo in it, or a passport. Now what if you _don't_ have one of those IDs? Easy, you go to the police station and get yourself a temporary ID, which is by law given free of charge. You do need to get a passport photo taken for that, but those can usually be done in about 10 minutes for around 10 Euros.
And of course there are other things outside of the ID issue which make the elections not rigged against minorities. Simple things like having the actual election day on a Sunday, the polling stations being usually in walking distance in cities -- people living in the countryside most likely have a car -- and that said polling stations tend to be in schools, shops, and other such places where people would be going anyway. Oh, and you usually also get polling stations popping up before the actual election day so that people may vote in advance, in said shops, schools, and similar assorted places.
---
The US could totally start doing ID mandates, but the problem is that in the US, their usage doesn't seem to be out of a genuine worry about election integrity or other similar concerns, but out of voter disenfranchisement, which again, hits minority populations disproportionately hard.
Comment by 0xDEAFBEAD 52 minutes ago
This doesn't sound like a big difference in effort from the last time I got myself an ID.
>Oh, and you usually also get polling stations popping up before the actual election day so that people may vote in advance, in said shops, schools, and similar assorted places.
Yep, the US also has early voting, vote by mail, etc.
>their usage doesn't seem to be out of a genuine worry about election integrity or other similar concerns
Gallup says 80% of people of color in the US favor a voter ID requirement: https://news.gallup.com/poll/652523/americans-endorse-early-...
Comment by K0nserv 1 hour ago
Comment by datsci_est_2015 1 hour ago
I’m not being obtuse here. Have you opened a fucking history book, or are you just purposefully acting dense for political convenience?
Comment by 0xDEAFBEAD 1 hour ago
I appreciate you illustrating my point about the role "civil rights" plays in modern US political discourse.
Yearning for a day when self-identified "progressives" look to the future instead of obsessing about the past.
Comment by datsci_est_2015 1 hour ago
Comment by 0xDEAFBEAD 1 hour ago
Imagine I tried to justify a policy that seemed bad to you, on the grounds of "historical baggage of communism". Would you consider that a compelling argument?
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Comment by atmavatar 2 hours ago
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/may/14/southern-sta...
Comment by duskwuff 2 hours ago
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/09/24/us/politics/justice-depar...
Comment by mistermann 2 hours ago
Comment by WillAdams 3 hours ago
Comment by ibn_khaldun 2 hours ago
Comment by IAmBroom 2 hours ago
Meaningful systemic racism is far more problematic than your experience with a few rural black males.
Comment by maerF0x0 2 hours ago
Comment by caranlharris 3 hours ago
Comment by crostlybostly 2 hours ago
Everyone can be racist. No one wants to debate pedantic redefined terms that liberal arts professors came up with so they could sell books.
Comment by bennettnate5 2 hours ago
Comment by preg_match 2 hours ago
Of course anyone can be individually racist. But institutionally, no. The American institutions and systems have always been white-focused, black people simply do not have the power to be institutionally racist.
I mean, has there ever been any anti-white law ever written in the US? No, because it’s not possible. The institution which makes, and enforces, the law is itself white.
Comment by idklol1234 1 hour ago
Comment by robtherobber 2 hours ago
E:
> No one wants to debate pedantic redefined terms
Some do, and we can give them the space to do that without implying that the effort is automatically deserving of consideration.
> pedantic redefined terms that liberal arts professors came up with so they could sell books
That's a somewhat silly thing to argue. That's not how it really works, and it's not a "liberal" thing, whatever that may mean. (I assume it's an American term meant to designate something that's not conservative.)
Otherwise, what you say is correct.
Comment by ImJamal 2 hours ago
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Comment by DaSHacka 2 hours ago
>A person who believes a particular race is superior to others. A person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others.
No where does it mention this new-age "prejudice + power" redefinition.
The word is race + -ism, IE literally "doctrine/practice based on race". The word has nothing to do with power. A black dude in America who chooses to beat up a white dude for his race is racist, even under the assumption he is a systematically oppressed minority.
Comment by throwitaway222 2 hours ago
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Comment by sscaryterry 3 hours ago
You are clearly misinformed.
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Comment by barake 3 hours ago
1: https://www.wlky.com/article/forced-busing-anniversary-50-lo...
2: https://www.louisville.com/redlining-louisville-dividing-lin...
Comment by amanaplanacanal 2 hours ago
Comment by klaff 2 hours ago
The Warmth of Other Suns is a very good book for filling some of that hole in your education. I am not sure if I wasn't taught about the Great Migration at all or was taught about it for 10 minutes but definitely did not get out of school with much understanding of this aspect of American history.
Comment by graemep 1 hour ago
i have a blog post about this: https://pietersz.co.uk/2023/08/racism-culture-different/
Comment by jimt1234 1 hour ago
It was a little tense at school for, maybe, a few hours, but mostly it was just confusion - WTF is going on?. But after that, it was cool. All the kids quickly realized we're all basically the same - we all hated homework and were intimidated by girls, the usual adolescent stuff. I didn't know it at the time, but the school deseg program was one of the most impactful events of my childhood.
Comment by forinti 3 hours ago
When you are used to privilege, equality looks like oppression.
Comment by MomsAVoxell 3 hours ago
It's especially jarring to understand this in the context of the utterly racist "war on terror", which is just racism under cover. Racists can't use the n-word any more, so they invented "terrorist" to continue their bigotry and hatred of cultures they've deemed inferior.
Its one thing to consider the West to be morally and technologically superior with regards to civil rights - its another thing to remember that our governments were the principle violators of civil rights, just a few short decades ago. What the hate-leaders tell us to think about the mullahs and Iran, we could easily have thought about our own nations just a half a lifetime ago...
Comment by jknoepfler 23 minutes ago
Like if you're going to get patriotic about post-enlightenment values and institutions, that's one thing... if you're going to just act like a bigoted, might-makes-right, my-country-right-or-wrong, personality-worshiping, science-denying, uneducated xenophobic dipshit, then you don't have much to be proud of.
Comment by dragonwriter 3 hours ago
Not under that much cover, just the more overt part of it directed at a different demographic than the primary foci of earlier rounds of US racism (though it provided a lot of excuse for actions directed more in line with classic US racism, and set the stage for the renaissance of more classicly directed, out-and-proud racism that has characterized the Trump era.)
Comment by bongofizzbuzz 1 hour ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQGiEbj_GR0
"I have a feeling in a few years people are going to be doing what they always do when the economy tanks. They will be blaming immigrants and poor people"
Comment by MomsAVoxell 2 hours ago
The "terrorism" tranche of this hate culture is particularly jarring, since the ones claiming moral altitude over 'terrorists' are delivering far, far more terrorism than their supposed enemies. It's just been homogenized.
Comment by fsckboy 2 hours ago
Comment by coldtea 2 hours ago
Maybe because Americans, whether black like Booker T Washington or white like Donald J. Trump, are notoriously ignorant on living conditions elsewhere, and conditioned to believe their country is the greatest ever place to live, even if it's way behind dozens of life metrics most of the western world.
Comment by fsckboy 2 hours ago
Comment by coldtea 2 hours ago
Doesn't mean the US, with KKK, Jim Crow, seggregation, and the rest was the best country in the world for blacks to live.
Comment by bad_haircut72 2 hours ago
Comment by MomsAVoxell 2 hours ago
Contemptible.
Comment by fsckboy 2 hours ago
If it's a question of ethnic strife, the condition of the West Bank and Gaza are due to strife between the West Bank and Jordan, and Gaza with Egypt as anything else.
Comment by MomsAVoxell 2 hours ago
The children of Gaza are being murdered by American bombs, dropped by Americas allies, with permission, in full view of the rest of the world. Because Americans and their allies have deemed those children inferior.
Claims of superiority on the issue of civil rights are, therefore, null and void.
Comment by fsckboy 1 hour ago
You wrote a comment, I critiqued it with facts, and it is YOU who is changing the topic and carefully side-stepping that I showed you were wrong. (I replied to someone else about Gaza.)
I have to jump in some cabs now, so you now have time to contemplate the error of your ways rather than hoping I'll see what you write further.
Comment by fsckboy 2 hours ago
antifa isn't a single organization, but groups under that umbrella do cooperate with, or are coopted front groups for, Marxist groups, and connect with any nationalist or sectarian strife in the world. You need to read up on "the theory of the revolutionary vanguard" and their self perceived role and techniques for fomenting revolution: that's who I'm talking about when I say antifa. Many people who consider themselves part of antifa for muh racism or muh increased minimum wage or muh ACAB might not be intellectual or well read about the history of Marxist revolutionaries, and they might beven be shocked to discover they intellectual Marxists are trying (and succeeding) in controlling their organizations toward a goal that's more likely to get a new Stalinist government.
Comment by MomsAVoxell 1 hour ago
Think they give a shit about civil rights?
Comment by MomsAVoxell 2 hours ago
That is blatantly false and you are indeed manifesting the very example of the ideology I find utterly contemptible.
37 million refugees from America's heinously vile wars, this century alone, beg to differ. The two million dead Iraqi's - and the children born to their descendants, daily, with congenital birth defects as a result of the widespread distribution of depleted uranium, certainly have had their human rights utterly abrogated from a distance by America's overtly racist ruling class, also.
And then, there's Gaza.
I have no respect for a nation that justifies the constant, daily murder of children. A nation that has dropped one bomb, on average, every 15 minutes for the past 25 years - on mostly innocent people - deserves a lot less respect than you seem to imply. It is certainly no shining example of civil rights.
Your in-group is not my out-group, but it's not my in-group, either. I prefer to participate in cultures which protect human rights - at the level of children - above all else. America is not one of them.
If your state has to murder children - or supports states willfully murdering children - in "self defense", then it is a failed state.
Period.
As for Booker T Washington, that was over a century ago. His work nevertheless had to be continued via Martin Luther King and company.
Try to keep up to present time. The US is the worlds #1 funder and supporter of terrorism this century, bar none.
Comment by ljf 1 hour ago
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Comment by cowlevel 3 hours ago
Lee Atwater, Republican party strategist, 1981:
> You start out in 1954 by saying, “N****r, n****r, n****r.” By 1968 you can’t say “n****r”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “N****r, n****r.”
He predates the war on terror though.
Comment by exogeny 3 hours ago
It's truly amazing how well it works.
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Comment by chuckadams 3 hours ago
Or where they'd still like to take us. The only problem they have with Ayatollahs is that they call God by the wrong name.
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Comment by MomsAVoxell 3 hours ago
Do you think that subsistence-working at Only Fans, or the local strip club is a better alternative?
For every 'women in sacks' argument that can be made, there is a street downtown where women put themselves in immense danger just to be able to feed their kids, pay their medical bill debts, get themselves some kind of safety net...
Same shit, different social flavor.
Comment by Arodex 3 hours ago
https://letterboxd.com/film/americas-war-against-women/watch...
Comment by MomsAVoxell 3 hours ago
I couldn't live in a state which allows its police forces to murder with impunity, for example.
The point is that the moral authority we claim over other states is a fallacy. Until we are actually protecting civil rights to the extent we expect of other nations, we are hypocritically justifying our own states heinous track record.
Alas, this seems to be understood pretty well by the ruling classes, who have subjugated human rights to mean "this gives us a right to justify the destruction of sovereign states and their peoples' we have deemed inferior".
Comment by igleria 3 hours ago
Comment by tsunamifury 2 hours ago
We, as Americans have had our “mask off” moment now and are openly declaring ourselves the preeminent empire on the planet. It’s simply that we are withdrawing from our globalist support structures due to a wide variety of forecast reasons along side that, which is confusing to many.
It was our liberal values and performance internally by the Democrats that gave our people as sort of comforting story before. We do it for the good of others we give we topple dictators etc.
I am a deeply “real politik” person and I don’t think you average right leaning American ever thought otherwise. It was somewhat ironically the hope yet no-change left Americans (who i have counted myself among) who tried to give it the thinnest veneer of responsibility.
The greatest thing we provided the world was order, for a time. That seems true of almost any mature empire.
Comment by bongofizzbuzz 1 hour ago
Comment by tehjoker 2 hours ago
Comment by tsunamifury 2 hours ago
Simply that a type of order was enforced to build a global money-ist theory of society and and market + trade platform.
I might, wrongly, argue that many of these regions both would have continued in the chaos and death they otherwise were already participating in, but i'd also accept that the Dutch in Africa, English in the Caribbean and China, etc all introduced net new outside chaotic aspects on purpose. I'd also accept that attempts at order by the American's ultimately resulted in chaos, especially of course in the middle east.
As to south america, this I'll acknowledge of course was an history of interference, one that is hard to argue the contra-positive since communism in almost all regions of the world failed to develope a long term stable order which was both culturally, trade, and fiscally sustainable, with many falling to a worse state after these outcomes.
Comment by redanddead 3 hours ago
Why gut squirrels
Comment by cowlevel 2 hours ago
Comment by sophacles 2 hours ago
We do it to pigs and chickens and cows too. Its a very early step in the slaughtering and butchering process - usually the first step after the animal has been killed.
Comment by dodger-dog 2 hours ago
Sounds bucolic.
Comment by mentalgear 4 hours ago
The battle of the present (ICE abuse, Social media speech suppression, ..) to win the government back by the people and for the people can still be won - but it hinges all on this November.
Comment by VulgarExigency 3 hours ago
What makes you think they've stopped?
Comment by gadders 3 hours ago
Comment by cowlevel 3 hours ago
I remember reading the online news about those primaries as they happened. Bernie wins this state in a landslide. Bernie wins that state in a landslide. Suddenly he's not on the ballot in most of the remaining states. At the end he doesn't have enough votes, oh dear too bad so sad. Some sort of investigation happened, but concluded the DNC has the absolute right to run primaries any way it chooses to.
Comment by amenhotep 2 hours ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2016_Democratic...
Why are you just completely making things up?
Comment by caconym_ 2 hours ago
For some reason I remember that moment as vividly as I remember pulling out in the car with my mom on the way to school and hearing that a plane had hit the WTC.
Comment by swed420 51 minutes ago
The Sanders campaigns just made it painfully obvious to anybody paying attention.
Comment by buellerbueller 3 hours ago
To me, it all seems to boil down to the notion that Bernie would credibly have "drained the swamp," which would have effectively tanked the careers of a lot of long-serving Democratic folks who were not aligned with his populist/progressive agenda. Simply by hiring people that would have aligned with his vision, this was such a threat to existing power, it had to be stopped. Yes, the Rs are worse (in my opinion), but this gives me plenty of distrust for the Ds. Institutions eventually become more about institutional survival than about their "core mission."
Comment by linuxftw 52 minutes ago
Comment by mentalgear 3 hours ago
So, the Clinton-controlled DNC from 2016 put Trump in the White House.
The positive message is that since then the Democrats have been infused by Sanders-like independent Democrats that want to do the right thing, but we must keep on pushing to rid and guard the DNC and party administration off the corrupt billionaire influences.
Comment by 999900000999 1 hour ago
If you look outside the US Bernie is actually a moderate. We're not talking about abolishing money or seizing the means of production. Just maybe, somewhere between minting a new trillionaire every year and pregnant women sleeping outside we can find a compromise.
Unlimited money for wars all over the planet, but if you lose your job and have a chronic illness you're screwed most of the time.
Sometimes your screwed even if you have a job and good health insurance. It's a magic game of musical chairs to see what's covered or not. What's out of pocket , etc.
Comment by mentalgear 1 hour ago
Comment by 999900000999 45 minutes ago
Although it can be argued this should be handled state by state instead. Unemployment pays about 1k per week in Washington , but only 400$ a week in Illinois.
My big fear is a right leaning federal government will eventually dismantle the social safety net entirely. If not that expect rent seeking, ie paying fees to private companies to get your social security checks
Comment by midev 3 hours ago
> Suddenly he's not on the ballot in most of the remaining states
Can you list these states? This should be easy to verify.
> concluded the DNC has the absolute right to run primaries any way it chooses to
Can you cite a law that tells private parties who they must support?
Comment by BobaFloutist 46 minutes ago
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Comment by mentalgear 3 hours ago
See also how the robber barons of the 1930s (Rockefeller, JP Morgan, etc) already tried to overthrow the government to establish a fascist military dictatorship.
Comment by regretsresin 3 hours ago
Comment by ToucanLoucan 3 hours ago
Non-violent protests have a place. On occasion though, you need to hit the system where it hurts in order for it to take you seriously.
Comment by mentalgear 3 hours ago
Comment by upboundspiral 38 minutes ago
Even if Biden's strategy was serve the super rich, while minimally "throwing the dog a bone" (the average person), not much changed. Sure, he appointed Lina Kahn, but per usual she was also sabotaged within the FTC and outside of it had no support.
The comparison to FDR, who was supremely hated by Wall street, who banned any bankers from attending Bretton Woods, who oversaw the New Deal, etc, etc is laughable.
Comment by superdisk 3 hours ago
Comment by swed420 3 hours ago
Comment by Arodex 6 minutes ago
Also explain why only one side of the "uniparty" is very, very vocal against ranked-choice voting. Like, to the point of banning it by law. All of them Republicans.
Weird, uh? But please tell us again how much Democrats and Republicans are the same and what is your solution.
Comment by timacles 3 hours ago
Comment by samrus 3 hours ago
Comment by chasd00 3 hours ago
My step dad use to quote bible verses to me trying to prove Obama was the literal antichrist. Before that it was the evil Bush and his oil cronies. Now it’s Trump, in two years it will be someone else. Same as it ever was.
Comment by cowlevel 3 hours ago
By all rights there shouldn't be one already, but we're lucky the democracy abolitionists are fairly incompetent.
Comment by 0xDEAFBEAD 32 minutes ago
So was this person Romney in 2012? McCain in 2008? Kerry in 2004? Gore in 2000?
Any one of those presidents would've abolished democracy?
Somehow we picked the right candidate every time?
The average constitution lasts about 18 years. The US constitution has lasted almost 250. Statistically, that's quite unlikely if a candidate ran on a platform of abolishing democracy in every election.
Comment by sejje 2 hours ago
Or, alternatively, did we cease to have a democracy?
Comment by jeremyjh 2 hours ago
Using the DOJ to interfere in state elections they have no jurisdiction in, and having masked men abduct people and ignore court orders regarding their disposition is just about as authoritarian as it gets.
Those are all new things that have substantially eroded - or removed all together the idea of democracy in less than two years.
Comment by cowlevel 2 hours ago
Comment by sejje 2 hours ago
If one side shuts the other out of power, that's when we'll finally get the civil war many have been predicting for a long time.
Hopefully the framework to limit power can stay in place, in spite of all the calls to change it, abolish the senate, pack the court, make sure to punish/"hold accountable" red voters, etc.
Comment by ImPostingOnHN 2 hours ago
It's possible, but not very credible, to argue that in a situation where direct democracy doesn't exist.
The closest we have to voted for these things rather than voted for these people is polls, which overwhelmingly illustrate that most people oppose those things.
We'll know more after the election, if people supported those things.
> It would be pretty undemocratic if a president tries to stay in office age losing an election
Yes, the current president tried exactly that, in a violent insurrection, and has interfered in national elections since regaining power.
Comment by cowlevel 1 hour ago
and it's probably not just election tampering, because polls close to elections also show support.
Comment by 15155 51 minutes ago
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Comment by 10111001 3 hours ago
There's a very easy method to tell if someone making that claim is a liar: ask "what major ideological compromise are they making to save democracy?" if the answer is "none" or close to it, they're full of shit.
'Cause if fascism is really our doorstep, you'd think they'd be gunning for the broadest, most indefatigable anti-fascist coalition possible; instead of the narrowest, most pure one they think they can get away with.
Comment by lkbm 2 hours ago
People, including individuals, aren't single-minded, rational, or scientifically literate.
In the case of anti-fascism, many on the left earnestly believe that a far-left candidate is the solution because their bubble tells them that their views are dominant. After all, they and many of their friends aren't excited to vote for the moderates, but would vote for someone more left.
I'll sacrifice a lot of things I care about for leadership that would shore up democracy (I'm not sure how, though fixing redistricting is a big one), but it's seen as normal and admirable to refuse to compromise.
Comment by 10111001 35 minutes ago
1. The liars: people cynically playing up fears of "losing democracy" as a political tactic to support some other political programs. I think this is especially obvious from candidates, activists, political operatives, etc. -- people sophisticated enough and engaged enough to know and think about what they're doing in a serious way.
2. The un-serious people: those you describe. Basically irrational people who believe a jumble of things without exercising the ability to prioritize or disengage the contradictions.
I don't think the boundaries between these phenomena are hard ones (e.g. you can often push un-serious people into liar territory by challenging them to prioritize).
Comment by Arodex 3 hours ago
What a level-headed, reasonable know-nothing you are, sitting above all this unreasonable jockeying.
I am not surprised though, you live in a culture where people can lecture others that the Bible told them Obama was Satan. You don't know what actual politics is anymore.
Comment by saila 3 hours ago
Comment by Micrococonut 3 hours ago
Comment by ifwinterco 1 hour ago
You can't vote for anyone who'll abolish the FBI, CIA and the rest of the elite groups that actually run things
Comment by maerF0x0 2 hours ago
A slight challenge here. November is a sizable opportunity to move towards that aim. Every day after is another opportunity to live it out in your life, community, neighborhood, finances, religion, and family...
Comment by kspacewalk2 3 hours ago
It's communism. Cold War. All there is to it. As with much other evil, this was done because the FBI feared that Big Bad Uncle Ivan will somehow gain influence over this leader and use it for leverage in the Cold War.
The same multitudes of extramarital affairs and other racy and embarrassing stuff that Dr King took part in, as a reverend, could be used by communists to blackmail him into working for them or making decisions that favour the Soviet Union. Is it far-fetched? Sure. Is it, in hindsight, paranoid and stupid? Yep. But can we say with certainty, without hindsight, that it was impossible, when you have an entire organization dedicated to rooting out hidden influence of the enemy in an existential covert global struggle?
And it wasn't all paranoia. The Soviet Union under Stalin was extremely good at infiltrating American academia, civil society and government. The Rosenbergs, Alger Hiss, Harry Dexter White, etc. The US government went from ignoring the problem and dealing with it so incompetently actual Soviet spies were in almost cabinet-level positions, to hysterically over-reacting and ruining the lives of people like Dr King "just in case".
Comment by cowlevel 3 hours ago
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Comment by DFHippie 3 hours ago
(well, the Russian Federation, not the USSR)
Comment by accountrequired 3 hours ago
That is how Communists get their cultural revolution, you know.
Comment by cowlevel 2 hours ago
There seems to be great demand for a party that actually makes life better for people, so great that you can just name your party that, win an election and do anything you want to. For some reason there's very little supply of parties that actually make life better and don't just pretend they want to.
Comment by ricksunny 2 hours ago
That is how blowhards get Red-Scares and Cold Wars, you know. And exactly the abuses OP posting is decrying.
Comment by pessimizer 2 hours ago
Back then the establishment used the CIA/FBI to attack black civil rights movements. They also used it to attack things that were associated with the Soviet Union, including associating black civil rights with communism and socialism, like you're doing here.
Maybe this was not about everybody and not about you?
Comment by regretsresin 3 hours ago
Feed people. Engage in mutual aid. Build communities. Prepare candidates. Grow networks. Then vote. Voting is the last and easiest part.
Comment by andrewla 4 hours ago
Comment by mentalgear 3 hours ago
> On March 8, 1971, an activist group called the Citizens' Commission to Investigate the FBI burglarized a local office of the FBI in Media, Pennsylvania, and stole classified documents. Parts of them exposed a secret FBI operation called COINTELPRO. Those documents were later sent to newspapers and members of the United States Congress.
Comment by embedding-shape 3 hours ago
Shame some societies digress into this state in the first place, even bigger shame when they keep sliding deeper and deeper into it.
Comment by MomsAVoxell 3 hours ago
Comment by webdoodle 1 hour ago
Fast forward to today, and the only difference is they now own all the Social Media and A.I. If you want truth in journalism, support small local journalists, and ignore corporate news.
Comment by Magicrafter13 2 hours ago
Good thing the FBI doesn't do this anymore hahaha yes we are certainly safe and they are definitely not infiltrating groups and people's minds in order to discredit and trick them into failure.....
Comment by jubilanti 1 hour ago
How were his orgies any different in moral character than the orgies the effective altruists throw?
Comment by celtain 3 minutes ago
His wife stood by him as wives were often expected to do back in the day, but that doesn't mean she was a willing participant in a nonmonogamous relationship.
Comment by dsign 1 hour ago
Comment by bilbo0s 46 minutes ago
To be fair, it's also true that we need more people like him and fewer people like the ones on the other side.
Comment by hypfer 4 hours ago
At least now we have LLMs that can produce this kind of stuff at human-overwhelming rates, so that is progress.
Comment by williamdclt 4 hours ago
the corners of the internet that you frequent have much more eloquent haters than the ones I'm used to
Comment by ranger_danger 4 hours ago
I'm convinced the only reason crimeflare continues to platform them is that it must be some kind of three letter honeypot.
Comment by thinkingemote 2 hours ago
They explicitly say they proactively work with LEOs to report any and all things illegal. I wouldn't be surprised if they had members of staff directly employed by some agencies, they wouldn't be opposed to it. They do not wait for a court order or subpoena, they will happily give them data and will not wait to be asked.
Their range of acceptable content is wider than other cleaner platforms which gives an impression of anarchy and freedom and anonymity, but actually those other more censored and speech restricted platforms may actually be more safer, private and free from government and legal interference!
Comment by cowlevel 3 hours ago
Comment by ranger_danger 3 hours ago
But, they now allow NSFW content in regular boards like technology, and for the first time in 20 years I actually saw someone post cheese pizza... plus I regularly see more and more leaked data posted there first, so I wouldn't call it less lawless at all.
Comment by hypfer 4 hours ago
There are quite a few covert psychopaths on here that happily twist knives and hurt people.
It's just hidden under layers and layers of indirection, jargon and plausible deniability. Not unlike your standard boardroom I guess.
Comment by MomsAVoxell 3 hours ago
Comment by bilbo0s 34 minutes ago
He looked at me and smiled. Went back to his coding.
I just want to put it out there that just because you happen to be in a place with a lot of unsavory people doesn't mean you, yourself are unsavory. We shouldn't paint everyone with so Catholic a brush. You have to go to the grocery store, but so do pedophiles, drug lords, and wife abusers. That's kind of how I see HN.
Yes. It's a crap hole.
But some neighborhoods just have crap hole grocery stores. Tech is kind of one of those "neighborhoods", and HN is a grocery store. You don't have to socialize with the other customers, and you can restrict yourself to only buying the decent foods on offer.
Comment by my-next-account 4 hours ago
Uploaded 16 years ago... I can't believe that a video I thought was so hilarious back then is dating me so hard.
Comment by kirth_gersen 3 hours ago
Comment by bongofizzbuzz 1 hour ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wpjWVRSoQM
Gold pot of a channel.
Comment by hsuduebc2 4 hours ago
Comment by ballmerpoint 3 hours ago
https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
This is not a criticism of their moderation style, this is simply reporting how they describe it.
Comment by sejje 2 hours ago
Comment by SecretDreams 2 hours ago
I think we have different definitions of pleasure.
This is a relatively dry place for any kind of conversation other than hyper logic conversation devoid of empathy or humour.
On certain tech topics, it can be very informative. On anything where there is a conflict between the topic and how the base makes money, there's a lot of down voting and sad rhetoric. As a result, you rarely get to discuss the harms of AI or certain oligarchs, e.g. musk, zuck, bezos, Russia, Israel.
This is a place mostly for reinforcing your own beliefs, rather than finding new ones, unless it's around a very mild topic.
Comment by whoanoway 6 minutes ago
Comment by hypfer 4 hours ago
It is true that this is heavily moderated and that this is one of the more pleasant spaces, but it is also precisely the moderation style that is being weaponized.
As I said, the toxicity gets hidden in layers and layers of jargon, misdirection and plausible deniability. It gets a veneer of civilty applied, which, somewhat surprisingly, makes it hit even harder, because fighting back is a lot harder, as there is nothing immediately visible to fight back against. It just stings.
It's not just attacking but simultaneously gaslighting. Which has been what the whole internet has been doing since everything became twitter fwiw.
What I said is also not to be understood as "HN bad", because if I would feel that way, I would not be commenting here.
Comment by semireg 3 hours ago
Reminds me of the recent thread about LLMs controversial take on humanity: we are all terribly cynical, hallucinate importance, and we are all bad/good deep down inside.
Comment by mjburgess 3 hours ago
The problem is that outside of "where's my keys? what are we having for lunch?", most language is a symptom of people's agendas. Its a rarefied elite environment that takes things literally, and acts in good faith.
I don't think this is psychopathic, as much as we're apes -- and speaking literally and in good faith about relatively abstract topics takes a considerable amount of training and is, in general, psychologically fragile (ie., its easy to be tilted).
Comment by brookst 3 hours ago
Comment by hypfer 3 hours ago
Are we going to play "prove me right" here? :D
Come on, this is just a direct personal attack. Go play better. Hide it with a more elaborate construct.
Comment by _matthew_ 12 minutes ago
@hypfer I'm curious, can you understand / identify with at least some of what I'm sharing below?:
A lot of people (likely near 100% of people) have their own internal beliefs about the world and they are largely commenting primarily to validate that belief (I am literally doing it with this comment). Like you often can see both what the person objectively wrote but then also get a feeling for some internal belief that motivated this specific comment.
And naturally, people are emotionally attached to their internal beliefs. And so sometimes comments are less a sharing of ideas and more a factually coded emotional rationalization of their internal beliefs. And when you read a comment like this that goes against one of your own beliefs, it may feel like an attack.
To me the distinction though is the motivation of the person on the other side. My interpretation is that true trolls have a motivation to incite emotions whereas most other people simply are trying to validate their own beliefs, despite potentially doing it in a way that is not emotionally palatable to all perspectives.
Separately, for you (hypfer), do you agree that there could be some amount of "hostile attribution bias" here? I saw this term while searching about this topic and to me it would explain both your perspective of feeling personally attacked and others perspective of feeling like that's actually not at all what's happening.
Comment by Arnt 3 hours ago
Comment by retromagik 3 hours ago
Comment by hypfer 3 hours ago
Instead of leaving it with the moderation to prove without a doubt that someone is trolling, one can default to assume trolling and demand prove that it is not the case.
As it is impossible to bring up proof for either of those things, the house wins and people make damn sure to quintuple-check if their messaging is decent.
I don't think that that is a good solution, but the status quo was horrible, so maybe the pendulum swinging in another direction for a while might help us discover saner solutions.
Comment by cowlevel 2 hours ago
Comment by hypfer 2 hours ago
That and the fact that each increase in difficulty filters out people that do not have the capability to pass it. So the pool shrinks every time.
Though, valid counterpoint: Eventually prefabs emerge and get shared.
But then we innovate once more. We always did. We always will
Comment by cowlevel 1 hour ago
Comment by hypfer 1 hour ago
Do not even try?
Comment by cowlevel 3 hours ago
Comment by tacitusarc 3 hours ago
Comment by hypfer 3 hours ago
I'm not sure if can truly let this pass as a more sophisticated construct, but I do appreciate the opener that already invalidates dismissal.
That's a good tactic. Thank you for playing.
I feel great btw :) Thank you for your concern.
Comment by kmijyiyxfbklao 2 hours ago
Comment by hypfer 2 hours ago
I was genuinely wondering if we would see the end of it, but of course, no.
But I like this, because it's such an obvious strawman and bad faith reinterpration by an account consisting of random jumbled letters.
Thank you. This is background radiation one can live with. Thanks for making things normal again.
Comment by regretsresin 3 hours ago
However, it often uses queer lingo - words that folks might think aren't notable, but queer folks will instantly recognize as an attack.
Refusing to call a gay man's husband a husband, but subsisting in friend or partner. Calling someone biologically male. Etc.
These get deployed quite subtly here, and because none of the words are slurs, they don't get moderated. (Though HN also permits overt slur usage -- search for the r-slur and you'll find plenty of cases.)
Comment by cosmic_cheese 3 hours ago
Comment by amanaplanacanal 2 hours ago
I wonder how much of it is generational? I see something similar in the way second wave feminists rightly hated being called girls, whereas it's not as much of an issue for the younger generations because they didn't have those experiences.
Comment by MomsAVoxell 3 hours ago
Compare the actual human rights records of the Western sphere (war crimes, crimes against humanity, violations of human rights at massive scale) with those of the nations we are being taught are inferior: same effect.
Or for any of us who were around for the Snowden/Assange chapter of HN, who supported the effort to expose the US' heinous crimes - there are still massive sections of western culture who are fundamentalist in their superiority. You can find them in the downvoted and dead-flagged comments section.
Comment by pixelready 2 hours ago
Comment by 0xDEAFBEAD 16 minutes ago
I see this statement repeated often with no supporting evidence. Seems a little ironic!
Is this claim falsifiable?
Would you be able to name the 2nd or 3rd most propagandized populations, in your view? Do you know anything about propaganda in e.g. the USSR or North Korea?
"Historian Sergo Mikoyan claimed that decades prior to the early 1960s, offices and stores had to submit papers with examples of their typewriters' typeface to local KGB branches so that any printed text could be traced back to the source, to prosecute those who had used the typewriter to produce material deemed illegal. With the introduction of photocopying machines, the KGB's Fifth Directorate and Agitprop Department required individuals to get authorization to use printing office photocopiers to prevent the mass production of unapproved material, though restrictions could be bypassed by bribing employees."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samizdat
That's what an actual heavily-propagandized population looks like. Meanwhile, I can open up any social media app and be greeted by a sea of anti-American slop.
Comment by MomsAVoxell 2 hours ago
Comment by deadbabe 3 hours ago
Comment by somenameforme 3 hours ago
I used the word 'degrade' earlier and I'm not sure fighting to the death over rascal is a higher state of enlightenment, but I do think words should have meaning, and now they mostly no longer do because everything is always hyperbolized to the most ridiculous degree.
So if the FBI was doing something akin in modern times they'd probably weaponize their knowledge by framing him as a viable rapist or other sort of sexual predator as opposed to a simple womanizer.
Comment by jacquesm 3 hours ago
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Comment by maerF0x0 2 hours ago
And that's not to detract from how gross it is that government abused it's power to attempt to get someone to commit suicide. Reminds me of Aaron Swartz case too.
Comment by dyauspitr 1 hour ago
Comment by tropdrop 1 hour ago
"The most damaging memos describe King witnessing a rape in a hotel room. Instead of stopping it, handwritten notes in the file say he encouraged the attacker to continue."
1 - https://theconversation.com/im-an-mlk-scholar-and-ill-never-...
Comment by maerF0x0 1 hour ago
Comment by Beestie 2 hours ago
Comment by krunck 3 hours ago
Comment by fransje26 3 hours ago
In some aspects, times have changed..
Comment by ajs1998 3 hours ago
Comment by atian 2 hours ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterterrorism
"Kill Yourself" is very similar in verse to "You Are Done."
Comment by bongofizzbuzz 1 hour ago
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Comment by nunez 3 hours ago
so weird that it somehow got through the spam filter
Comment by bjacobel 2 hours ago
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Comment by mock-possum 1 hour ago
I can imagine him sitting around with his buddies, taking turns reading it out loud, barely able to make it through a sentence without cracking up laughing until everybody was crying.
Comment by tempfile 1 hour ago
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Comment by searealist 1 hour ago
But you won't find Levison's name on the SCLC Wikipedia page even though his personal wiki page mentions he was "instrumental in founding" it.
Comment by whycome 3 hours ago
Comment by tim333 2 hours ago
it doesn't paywall for me
Comment by freediver 3 hours ago
Comment by cowlevel 2 hours ago
But sites won't let me do that, they want me to make an account first and they want to verify my email address and phone number which means leaving my browser and restarting the process each time I do because the browser got unloaded and the website doesn't save state. Almost all of the friction here is the fault of the website, not the payment process.
Usually I just can't make an account on a mobile device because of the browser unloading, so if it's important I do it later with my PC and if it's not important I give up entirely.
Comment by lkbm 2 hours ago
Youtube Premium is a pretty good system. I pay $16/mo, and 55% of that gets distributed to creators based on my watch time.
Comment by tim333 2 hours ago
I'm not sure if there's an actual website that did it? I've made micropayments for other things like PAYG phones and speculating on crypto.
Comment by mentalgear 1 hour ago
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Comment by gadders 4 hours ago
Apparently the audio tapes get released in 2027 so we may find out for sure then.
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