How Google determines the names for bodies of water in Google Earth (2008)
Posted by terminalbraid 6 hours ago
Comments
Comment by mapontosevenths 5 hours ago
They violated their own policy with the gulf then.
Comment by lallysingh 5 hours ago
Comment by doginasuit 4 hours ago
Investment in product quality, "Don't be evil", everything that set a company apart and allowed it to rise, it lasts only as long as it is preserved in a way that resists decay.
Is there anything left of the rowboat? I'm at the point where I am actively trying to shut Google out of my life to the degree that it is possible. And yet it is still not Microsoft. I catch a glimmer of the old google in a product release now and then.
Comment by jppope 4 hours ago
Comment by virgil_disgr4ce 3 hours ago
Comment by goodmythical 3 hours ago
It's only there because it wasn't inventoried and so not lost in the purge.
Comment by coef2 4 hours ago
Comment by freecodeio 4 hours ago
Comment by nervai 4 hours ago
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2025/07/08/sergey-...
Comment by flir 4 hours ago
Comment by vigilantpuma 32 minutes ago
Comment by freecodeio 14 minutes ago
Comment by hparadiz 52 minutes ago
Comment by hn_throwaway_99 3 hours ago
And I really don't think I'm exaggerating Page's opinion on this, though I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.
Comment by nextaccountic 1 hour ago
Comment by ctmlr 30 minutes ago
Comment by redwood 2 hours ago
Comment by LightBug1 3 hours ago
Comment by helloWorldHawk 1 hour ago
Comment by rickdeckard 4 hours ago
"Under this policy, the English Google Earth client displays the primary, common, local name(s) given to a body of water by the sovereign nations that border it. If all bordering countries agree on the name, then the common single name is displayed (e.g. "Caribbean Sea" in English, "Mar Caribe" in Spanish, etc.). But if different countries dispute the proper name for a body of water, our policy is to display both names, with each label placed closer to the country or countries that use it."
Which basically means "multiple names until all bordering countries agree on the same name", if I'm not mistaken
Comment by Gormo 4 hours ago
In the situation with the Gulf, it's unambiguously true that the "primary, common, local" name used in the US by English-speaking Americans is "Gulf of Mexico", but they decided to adhere to an artificial name change declared by a political figure, whose authority to make that "official" only extends to a single branch of a single level of government.
Comment by amiga386 2 hours ago
He has no authority to name international bodies of water - i.e the large part in the centre where Google should be writing "Gulf of Mexico" because that's its name.
But he does have the ability to cause trouble for the giant corporations based in his country that serve map images to most of the rest of the world. The giant corporations also see that he grants favours for fealty. So it's actually the unofficial power he has that's the problem, rather than what's within his legal remit.
Comment by rickdeckard 4 hours ago
And that's my point. It depends on how "primary" or "common" is defined, the article has no definition of it. Who gets to decide that, Google?
The easy (and predictable) cop-out is to follow a governments definition of what is "the expected primary and common name", and then show that name in brackets.
The only restriction this "definition" seems to set is that your country needs to be adjacent to the landmark to define its name, so "a ruler" cannot decide to rename e.g. Australia unless he is either "the ruler" of Australia or of a country adjacent to it.
And we're back to square one.
--
EDIT: Yes, I also read this sentence: "By saying "common", we mean to include names which are in widespread daily use, rather than giving immediate recognition to any arbitrary governmental re-naming.".
The question remains how to quantify "widespread daily use".
It creates room to justify against an immediate change of a name, but doesn't define when this criteria is reached.
And from all I see, all this doesn't seem to matter anyway, because a new local naming will anyway be added in brackets (see Gulf of Mexico). What am I missing?
Comment by CrazyStat 4 hours ago
> By saying "primary", we aim to include names of dominant use, rather than having to add every conceivable local nickname or variation. By saying "common", we mean to include names which are in widespread daily use, rather than giving immediate recognition to any arbitrary governmental re-naming. In other words, if a ruler announced that henceforth the Pacific Ocean would be named after her mother, we would not add that placemark unless and until the name came into common usage.
Comment by Gormo 3 hours ago
If Google doesn't want to try to discern the proper "primary, local, common" names on their own, they do worse than just using Wikipedia's names and call it a day.
Comment by OskarS 4 hours ago
If the nutso president of Turkmenistan decided one day that the Caspian Sea's real name was the Turkmen Sea, there's absolutely no way that Google Maps would rename it on their maps. The reason they renamed it in this case is not because "well, the government said so, so we have no choice!". It's (obviously!) done to not piss of Trump, and pissing off Trump would be bad for their business. They can hide behind lawyerly arguing all they want, but that is the real reason.
Comment by ElevenLathe 2 hours ago
In terms of lawyerly distinctions, I would actually argue that there is still no legal basis to the rename. The president has directed the federal executive branch to refer to Lake Ontario as Lake America, but...that's it. It literally doesn't and can't apply to Google. No law has been passed, and even if there had been it's pretty clear that it's a 1st Amendment issue to compel private entities to refer to things in particular ways -- it would be a slam dunk even on this Supreme Court. Their decision to do it is a voluntary act meant to curry favor with this administration, or at least to avoid pissing it off. This isn't like the Indian laws that make it illegal to publish a map that shows Kashmir as part of Pakistan, it's just a memo to the federal bureaucracy. Yes, this doesn't really matter because there are punishments that are within the power of the president (like cancelling contracts, or cooking up bogus DoJ investigations, or failing to resist antitrust enforcement, etc.) that they want to avoid. This just goes to illustrate that the rule of law in the United States is mostly a fantasy.
Comment by vigilantpuma 28 minutes ago
I also assumed that that was happening, and that might even have made sense, but according to my Canadian coworker, Lake Ontario also shows up as Lake America for him.
Comment by ElevenLathe 17 minutes ago
Comment by majorchord 3 hours ago
Yes, and Google has huge contracts with the government, meaning they must adhere to their rules if they want to keep those contracts.
Comment by u8 40 minutes ago
Literally no person not suffering a mental health crisis seriously calls these bodies of water GoA or LA. You could not find a single healthy adult on the Great Lakes who says anything other than Lake Ontario.
Absurd from Google and frankly they need to be punished. I want corporations to be scared of wading into politics again.
Comment by mahboi 1 hour ago
Comment by rickdeckard 4 hours ago
Although there is also no definition of "common usage". A new name might already qualify if the local government adjacent to this landmark announces to only use this new name from now on.
Reading the article, I assume this would cause the new name to be immediately shown in brackets next to the old name, or am I missing something?
Comment by mapontosevenths 3 hours ago
Common usage is defined in the article as the widespread name used by the local people to refer to it.
Comment by lopis 2 hours ago
Comment by croon 2 hours ago
Yes, a lot of publications reported on the presidents action. I do not have the same experience as you that there's widespread use of the alternative name outside of this context.
Comment by rickdeckard 2 hours ago
The only change I can read from it, is that they don't need to apply a renaming from Day#1
Comment by theodorejb 1 hour ago
Comment by hn_throwaway_99 3 hours ago
But I really like this policy. Even though it still relies on Google's definition of "common usage", it makes naming much less arbitrary and more sensical.
I was wrong in my previous analysis. Google had a clear, sensible, defined, published policy, and they broke it to appease a wannabe autocrat.
Comment by poulpy123 4 hours ago
Anyway I don't think google should be the one choosing the names they call water bodies. They just need to use the official names for the IPs countries, and show lake america, gulf of america, ocean america, asian america, european america and african america if Trump makes it official, but only for the US IPs.
Comment by mapontosevenths 3 hours ago
Should they also break all of their code by adhering to that falsehood because it was politically expedient?
Nah. Truth is a real thing, and I want to live in a world were facts are not dictated to us by failed gameshow hosts who happened to turn political in their retirement years.
[0] https://cs.uwaterloo.ca/~alopez-o/math-faq/mathtext/node18.h...
Comment by lern_too_spel 1 hour ago
Comment by brookst 4 hours ago
As a user I want the map names I know, not whatever BS some egomaniac politician announced yesterday.
Comment by scottyah 1 hour ago
Comment by williamdclt 4 hours ago
Maybe not quite the same as in this case, the entity who names the square actually owns the square, which isn't the case in the gulf of mexico naming situation. But there is some grey area I think.
Comment by pixl97 2 hours ago
Why not ask the question this way.
Do you think Google should serve people with money in their hand or a gun to their head?
Comment by poulpy123 4 hours ago
Comment by rickdeckard 4 hours ago
I would maybe even welcome that approach at this stage, just to demonstrate the absurdity of those decisions.
They could actively encourage also other countries to rename all foreign landmarks as they please, to fast-track a separate "international naming" convention so people can again communicate across borders...
Comment by shermantanktop 4 hours ago
Comment by ModernMech 2 hours ago
Comment by aaron695 4 hours ago
Comment by jezzamon 2 hours ago
This article is not as pure as it might seem but I think this is also a post-hoc reasoning to explain what decision they went with for the "Persian Gulf" / "Arabian Gulf" decision, and Google then proceeded to change their stance on that in the following years:
"Google had previously put both Persian Gulf and Arabian Gulf on its Google Maps. After May 2012, it removed both names from the body of water stating that it does not name every place in the world and that it did not want to take a political stance. Iranians complained about the change and started a Twitter campaign asking "Where's the Persian Gulf?".[66] Since 2016, Google Maps has displayed both Persian Gulf and Arabian Gulf on the body of water and shows "either Arabian or Persian Gulf to local users, depending on geolocation and language settings."[67] Google Earth shows both names, unless viewed through a server from a Gulf Coast Arab country, in which case it labels it simply "Arabian Gulf"." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Gulf_naming_dispute#:~...
Evidently Google in bending the knee with the America naming but I think they also haven't exactly taken a purely principled stance in the past either
Comment by philipov 5 hours ago
> But if different countries dispute the proper name for a body of water, our policy is to display both names, with each label placed closer to the country or countries that use it.
Clearly that policy has changed since 2008. Not surprising, since that's before they decided to officially be evil.
Comment by ericmay 4 hours ago
The expansion of the internet advertising industry, addiction algorithms via YouTube and/or other dark patterns, and more were pretty evil from the start. If you need a slogan to remind you to not be evil, maybe you shouldn’t be anywhere near power. It’s one of those tells in advertising - if you have to tell me you are something you probably aren’t whatever you are claiming to be.
Renaming Gulf of Mexico to Gulf of America, and renaming Lake Ontario to Lake America just aren’t in the same room in terms of “evil” things. Annoying perhaps? Sure. Evil? Not. A. Chance.
Nobody really cares about this stuff in day-to-day life besides people who desire to be outraged as a way of entertaining themselves or mask over some other personal deficiency they have.
What countries call it the South China Sea? What does France call the English Channel?
Had this occurred 100 years ago we wouldn’t even be talking about it today.
Comment by philipov 4 hours ago
Comment by DocTomoe 2 hours ago
Comment by philipov 2 hours ago
Comment by ericmay 4 hours ago
Same thing basically with the English Channel. It's just the English Channel. I don't want to see a bunch of different names for it. If the French want Google to show it as La Manche for French people that makes sense.
Comment by scottyah 1 hour ago
Comment by ericmay 49 minutes ago
But I'd say that it's probably not a big deal anyway because how often are you going to run into such a scenario, and even if you do how would Google/whoever capture a lot of informal names for things? A little bit of confusion is fine too anyway.
Comment by aeyes 4 hours ago
I'm located south of the equator.
Comment by BryantD 4 hours ago
Comment by lopis 2 hours ago
Comment by dbbk 2 hours ago
Comment by DocTomoe 2 hours ago
When I VPN to other countries, it does the same.
Not sure where you got your wisdom from.
Comment by BryantD 1 hour ago
Comment by alistairSH 3 hours ago
I guess they've changed their minds since 2008... Their display of "Gulf of America" without "Gulf of Mexico" and "Lake America" without "Lake Ontario" is at odds with their declared policy.
Comment by afavour 4 hours ago
Comment by dinkblam 1 hour ago
Comment by reaperducer 4 hours ago
I've heard it called Michael Jackson Syndrome.
Comment by brookst 4 hours ago
Comment by fleroviumna 1 hour ago
Comment by cbondurant 4 hours ago
Then you look at the current day with the "Gulf of America" which fails to be primary, common, or local, and just get disappointed.
Comment by arjie 1 hour ago
> For language clients other than English, we display only the preferred name in the relevant language. For example, the Japanese client of Google Earth shows "Sea of Japan" in Japanese (日本海), while the Korean version shows "East Sea" in Korean (동해).
Comment by GS_TO 5 hours ago
Comment by croon 2 hours ago
Comment by ArekDymalski 4 hours ago
Lake Ontario (Lake America)
does it mean that the complete name change has been introduced only locally, in US?
Comment by vaillancourtmax 4 hours ago
Comment by poulpy123 4 hours ago
Comment by rob74 3 hours ago
Comment by rtkwe 2 hours ago
Comment by xnx 1 hour ago
Comment by xnx 1 hour ago
Comment by alansaber 4 hours ago
Comment by mrtesthah 42 minutes ago
Comment by jordanb 4 hours ago
This going all the way back to John Perry Barlow and a utopia in cyberspace to escape the right wing world of Reagan and Thatcher. But it reached its zenith around the "Arab Spring" with the idea that through connecting people the tech companies were giving voice to the voiceless and creating a new world of participatory democracy.
Many of us developed an interest in technology substantially because of the promise they were selling
Yet then, the moment they received the tiniest bit of pushback they all threw in fully and enthusiastically with Trump and are now even facilitating the Right Wing Internationale as we see with the Zuck trying to silence Lula supporters in Brazil.
It's basically the mother of all rug pulls and yeah, people are a little sore
Comment by magimas 3 hours ago
But all the stuff that happened from 2012 to 2024 had disenfranchised a lot of the actual engineers that do the real work with the progressive movement. There were a lot of early warnings, but they were ignored and instead silenced via social pressure.
Now the progressives are shocked that they couldn't just ratchet their causes ever further without losing support. And it is crazy who the techno-libertarian side joined forces with, but it was also obvious this was bound to happen at some point. You can't just continually ignore the grievances of your allies and then be shocked when they turn against you.
Comment by jordanb 3 hours ago
John Perry Barlow-esque techno libertarianism is dead.
Modern network state authoritarianism is unrecognizable from the perspective of old-style technolibertarians.
If you had told those people the modern silicon valley was working to build a Panopticon and sell it to the TLAs they would not have believed you!
Comment by mmooss 14 minutes ago
I think they would have absolutely believed it - that's what they were worried about and fought against. They would have not believed that libertarians and progressives (to use the terms of this thread) have adopted such an absolutely helpless, defeatest attitude and have therefore become moribund and ineffective.
Comment by mmooss 19 minutes ago
United Nations Cartographic Section
U.N. Conference on the Standardization of Geographical Names
International Hydrographic Organization (IHO)
US National Geographic Society
UK Royal Geographical SocietyComment by Trasmatta 4 hours ago
> How Google determines the names for bodies of water in Google Earth
But the HN link is
> Google determines the names for bodies of water in Google Earth
Is this one of those cases where HN automatically changes the submission name? Because removing the `how` really changes the meaning here.
Comment by yreg 4 hours ago
I don't like these magical (unexpected) solutions.
Comment by cubefox 4 hours ago
Comment by atheiste 4 hours ago
Comment by crazygringo 1 hour ago
Policies change and evolve. What would be more notable would be if they didn't.
And in this case, I'm not surprised at all. Trying to be the arbiter of what is considered common place names feels like a thankless and ultimately impossible task. If I were Google, I would quickly give up on that as well and simply follow official sources.
Don't like it? Then vote for the other guy next election. That's what living in a democracy is about. If anything, sticking to government names gives people even more reason to vote for the other party next election. The more people who get exposed to these dumb name changes on Google Maps, the better.
Comment by kubatyszko 2 hours ago
Comment by LetsGetTechnicl 4 hours ago
Comment by Ylpertnodi 2 hours ago
Comment by imafish 5 hours ago
Comment by poulpy123 4 hours ago
Comment by GuB-42 4 hours ago
Comment by comboy 4 hours ago
Comment by RajT88 4 hours ago
Comment by LetsGetTechnicl 4 hours ago
Comment by ChrisArchitect 2 hours ago
Lots of related/relevant discussion 2 months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49495947
Comment by helsinkiandrew 3 hours ago
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/oct/22/trump-atlant...
> Donald Trump said Google rejected his request to rename the Atlantic Ocean after himself or America. Speaking at a rally in South Carolina on Wednesday, the president said he had called Google’s CEO, Sundar Pichai, to ask whether the company could “handle” his proposal.
>According to Trump, Pichai rejected the latest proposal. Trump described the Google CEO’s response by saying, “No, no, no. This time I’m not doing it … Oceans are different, sir. They cover … a lot of countries. Please don’t ask us to do that.”
Comment by excalibur 1 hour ago
Is anyone actually able to verify this behavior? All I'm seeing is the Trumpy names no matter where I look.
Comment by mikelitoris 4 hours ago
Comment by _verandaguy 4 hours ago
The how is operative, I think, since it changes the title from being about the process of how Google determines a name when it's there, to being about Google acting as some kind of rogue despot that goes around naming bodies of water.
Comment by Jordan-117 3 hours ago
Comment by tomhow 24 minutes ago
That's not really what we are :) It's part of what we talk about, sure, but mostly we're a site for curious conversation.
We actually don't want to automate things in ways that seem “polished” and “perfect” all the time. Which individual or software system would we want to be the arbiter of that? We like that the software does a rough approximation in cases like these, then through collaboration between the community and the moderators we arrive the best outcome in the end.
Comment by igleria 2 hours ago
The Spanish proverb “en casa de herrero, cuchillo de palo” (literally: "in the blacksmith's house, a wooden knife") means that the things you would most expect someone to have or fix are often missing or neglected in their own home or life
Comment by pbhjpbhj 1 hour ago
I always thought it was a statement about poverty, but online sources say it's about not applying one's expertise to one's own situation. I'm not sure I agree with that interpretation.
Comment by tomhow 29 minutes ago
Comment by tomhow 31 minutes ago
Comment by cubefox 4 hours ago
Comment by dumb_young_kid 3 hours ago
It seems a clearer case of following a similar policy (though for land, not water), since Denali was already the primary, common, and local name for the mountain in Alaska, just not across the US as a whole [2]. I am not aware of the Gulf of America or Lake America as common names; the Gulf of America was occasionally a joke, though.
It's also not clear to me that it's fair to say "the Democrats renamed some mountain," since it was partly a clear response to an Alaskan request, made by both the Republican and Democratic Senators of Alaska [3], although the officials who made the final decision were all Democrats.
[0] https://searchengineland.com/mount-mckinley-denali-google-bi... [1] https://www.doi.gov/node/17570 [2] https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CRPT-113srpt93/html/CRPT... [3] https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/senate-bill/155
Comment by anew 4 hours ago
Comment by cubefox 40 minutes ago
Comment by psbp 4 hours ago
Comment by chipotle_coyote 4 hours ago
Comment by freedomben 3 hours ago
This seems like a question that should be able to factually answer with something like, "they changed it and did not include both names" or "they changed it but included both names". I don't see how it's a troll to wonder about that.
Comment by BryantD 3 hours ago
Comment by freedomben 3 hours ago
Comment by cubefox 4 hours ago
Comment by BryantD 4 hours ago
And you’re getting downvoted because, as per the above, it’s an irrelevant question.
But I’ll indulge you just a bit more. The principle here is not “renaming things is bad!” The principle is that indulging an authoritarian who’s trying to unilaterally rename territory his country doesn’t own is bad, particularly when he’s doing so in a fit of pique (Lake Ontario).
As you may or may not be aware (I wasn’t), the Alaskan state legislature passed a bill in 1975 requesting that the mountain be renamed. Trump didn’t even try to get Congress to pass any bills before renaming things.
Hope this all helps clarify and gives you some reason to rethink the MAGA propaganda that tries to equate Denali and the Gulf of Mexico.
Comment by freedomben 3 hours ago
However I think you're assuming/reading into the question a whole lot more than is there. Unfortunately your otherwise good answer comes across very hostile because you are assuming (rightly or wrongly) that the asker is parroting MAGA propaganda. I can assure you I am very much not MAGA, yet I thought it was a good question because it's interesting to see if/when Google stopped their 2008 policy and why. Your "why" makes sense to me, but you almost lost me with stuff like, "Hope this all helps clarify and gives you some reason to rethink the MAGA propaganda that tries to equate Denali and the Gulf of Mexico" which feels completely unwarranted.
Comment by BryantD 3 hours ago
Comment by Dunewalnut22 5 hours ago
Comment by chipotle_coyote 4 hours ago
This sounds to me like for all users it should display both names. Perhaps to US users it displays "Gulf of America (Gulf of Mexico)" and everywhere else it displays "Gulf of Mexico (Gulf of America)", although the literal text suggests it should say "Gulf of Mexico" in an area of the map closest to Mexico and "Gulf of America" in an area of the map closest to the US.
Comment by rbanffy 4 hours ago
Comment by mapontosevenths 5 hours ago
Comment by ActionHank 4 hours ago
Just because the US has decided to smear faeces on their walls doesn't mean we all need to admire it.
Comment by hardbass 3 hours ago
Comment by thrance 5 hours ago
Yeah, right, until a wannabe despot comes in and demands Google come lick its boots. In which case Google immediately complies with zero objection.
Comment by toyg 4 hours ago
Comment by lern_too_spel 1 hour ago
Following local laws is not so bad. What's bad is when they politically support these despots after previously stating ideological opposition to similar despots in other countries. https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/27/us/politics/sergey-brin-g...
Comment by beanjuiceII 4 hours ago
Comment by anew 2 hours ago
Comment by paulvnickerson 4 hours ago
Comment by snayan 30 minutes ago
Comment by brookst 4 hours ago
Comment by paulvnickerson 3 hours ago
Comment by GaryBluto 1 hour ago
Comment by jordanb 4 hours ago
There exists no mechanism in the US for the president to force a private company to change the name of anything.
They did this to curry favor with the regime. It is naked sycophancy that shows exactly where the leadership of this company stands.
Comment by wombat-man 27 minutes ago
Idk what timeline you're looking at, but if they knew it was changing anyway, might as well.
Also, the President in many ways has a lot of control over all three branches of government. Do they really want to risk contracts because USGS hasn't technically been updated yet?
Comment by jordanb 4 minutes ago
But the USGS database (GNIS) did not update when Google (and Apple) changed the name. Google's claim that they pulled from GNIS was untrue
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2026/08/google-maps-renames-...
Comment by hardbass 3 hours ago
Comment by Maken 3 hours ago
I'm sure that's not how it would go.
Comment by hardbass 31 minutes ago
Comment by whoanoway 3 hours ago