IBM CEO says open weight models are now good and cheap on-prem
Posted by Betelbuddy 3 days ago
Comments
Comment by jacquesm 3 days ago
Comment by gorgoiler 3 days ago
Over time NeoGeo realized they could sell you the hardware to play at home (“on-prem”) at arcade quality albeit at a price out of reach to most people. Alongside them, Nintendo and Atari gave you 80% of the fun at 20% of the cost. History will view games arcades as a flash in the pan compared to gaming at home.
Namco, Capcom, and Konami went into selling software instead of hardware but it feels hard to imagine buying a home copy of Fable** for $X,000 any time soon.
⸻
* That’s for video games. In fairground arcades you’d literally pay for tokens then use tokens for play. The analogy almost writes itself.
** The model, not the video game.
Comment by asdf88990 3 days ago
Comment by jacquesm 3 days ago
Comment by dekhn 2 days ago
From a fair bit of coding with the agent, my experience with Qwen 3.8 (Qwen3.8-Flash-Next-GSQ-RCO-IQ3_S-0 on Strata, Qwen 3.8 27B on ninfer). In my particular case, I was trying to clone a recent HN post which allowed you to visualize how out of tune your singing was relative to a song, but as a web app or portable native app.
My experience is that both those models will generate an enormous amount of noise (literally: it was running audible unit tests on my machine to test the note-detection algorithms) while coming to a solution, if they do find a solution- while Claude (whatever the latest model is) or ChatGPT (ditto) will do 1/10th the amount of work to get the right solution. I suspect if I had the resources to run GLM 5.3, it would probably be significantly faster to get to a working solution than Qwen-3.8 27B, but likely still somewhat inferior to Claude or ChatGPT solutions, and also would generate a much larger energy bill on my part.
Comment by spwa4 3 days ago
Comment by morgoo 3 days ago
Comment by spwa4 3 days ago
And at Q2, I think you're better of with Qwen3-coder-next on one DGX spark (or much better: on any apple silicon max, we are currently in the ridiculous situation that a second hand m1 max 64G will beat a DGX spark that's at least triple the price)
Comment by cyanydeez 3 days ago
Comment by wjnc 3 days ago
Comment by trilogic 2 days ago
Comment by snarfy 3 days ago
It reminds me that coin-op SF2 champion edition was like $6000 new, and you rented time with tokens. Eventually you could play a very good but more limited SNES version of SF2 at home for no tokens. And then PC hardware matured to the point where you can play the exact bits via emulator at better than original fidelity.
It will be very nice when AI gets to the emulator stage.
Comment by doubled112 2 days ago
Do you think we'll be longing for the nostalgia hit of LLM models from 2025 in 2050?
Maybe we will collectively miss being completely right and inappropriate em—dashes.
Comment by JacobLeeCadLaw 1 day ago
Those early GAN image generators were so weird that they produced art that felt genuinely creative. I don't know that whatever people are using to create modern Tung-Tung-Tung-Sahur instagram reel slop is even capable of producing similar things.
Comment by pipes 3 days ago
(I'll run for cover now as I'm sure neogeo fans will disagree!)
Comment by ASalazarMX 2 days ago
Comment by MrBuddyCasino 3 days ago
Comment by jonhohle 2 days ago
(I also adore MS)
Comment by echelon 3 days ago
But also look at live service games and the shit modern game studios are doing to try to go back to the old world of rent seeking.
Comment by senordevnyc 3 days ago
Comment by doctorwho42 2 days ago
Game industry has first manipulated the economic conditions by restricting access to game content (skins, modding capabilities, always online drm, etc.) that previously was included in the price (buy game, you own that game outright).
Manipulation of public policy was a more recent thing with the laws surrounding underage gambling via 'loot-boxes'.
So I think the onus is on you to show us why these behaviors, which increase the wealth the companies are able to extract per game, are not rent seeking behavior.
Comment by senordevnyc 2 days ago
As for the laws on underage gambling, countries all over the world are outlawing that, suing gaming companies, etc. The public is not in favor of underage gambling, and it's unclear to me how banning it increases the wealth of these companies? So I think the onus is on you to explain how this is an example of rent seeking.
Comment by doctorwho42 1 day ago
Consider the use of microtransactions, battle passes, paid progression, and downloadable content. These systems often exploit the time, money, and emotional investment players have already made in a game. By deliberately slowing progression, withholding content, or introducing artificial scarcity, companies can encourage consumers to spend more money not because they are receiving a better product, but because they want to avoid frustration or access something they already value. The company is monetizing the player's existing commitment rather than necessarily creating new value.
This does not mean every gaming company or microtransaction is inherently rent seeking. Selling meaningful new content is a legitimate business activity. The criticism is that parts of the modern gaming industry increasingly prioritize extracting revenue from an existing player base over developing better games. When companies use their control over popular franchises and digital ecosystems to extract additional money from consumers who have few alternatives, they exhibit the very characteristics of rent seeking that economists criticize in other industries.
Comment by senordevnyc 1 day ago
No, it’s not, you just made that up. Why doesn’t this match your previous definition?
The rest of your long AI-written comment has nothing to do with the principle of economic rent seeking.
Not sure why I’ve been wasting my time, but I’m out. Peace!
Comment by behringer 2 days ago
Comment by zahlman 2 days ago
Comment by fsckboy 2 days ago
in the early days, 2 plays for a quarter was not unusual (but you couldn't buy one)
Comment by LogicFailsMe 2 days ago
Comment by InsidiousWombat 3 days ago
And the AI debt bubble price spike will probably stay there for a while.
Comment by jauntywundrkind 3 days ago
Still (as bit over) 1/2 the ram bus width of a single HBM4 stack though! (1280b vs 2048b).
Comment by jacquesm 2 days ago
Comment by cyanydeez 3 days ago
Uber took a decade but eventually, the real cost of a taxi service went up for many use cases.
Your argument is only solid if we are headed to the singularity.
Comment by doctorwho42 2 days ago
Perfect encapsulation of the problem. I may steal the wording you used for future conversations.
Comment by otterley 3 days ago
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Comment by glassresearch 3 days ago
Comment by segmondy 3 days ago
Comment by Gareth321 3 days ago
Now I want a local LLM server :( $25k is just so much money.
Comment by ali_chherawalla 5 hours ago
Comment by ThunderSizzle 3 days ago
Sadly, the r9700 has gone up in price, but it's still the cheapest route. I use It on an old x99 Linux desktop and it achieves 50 tps decode and 1000+ tps prefill.
Comment by Gareth321 3 days ago
Comment by ThunderSizzle 2 days ago
My stack uses a local llamacpp ROCM build, modified by https://github.com/stew675/llama-cpp-rdna-boosts
The build uses my machine's ROCM and I just link it instead of embedded all that in an image, like the published ones do.
Then deploying it via docker compose to my local machine. The models I want to run are stored in a docker volume, so it's easy to switch the model while keeping the same build.
The biggest negative for me is that I don't think it's enough to do parallelization through llamacpp (I'd prefer to work on one thing faster than two things slowly). I haven't gotten vllm working yet. Also, once you have one, you constantly start thinking about a second card...
Comment by jacquesm 2 days ago
Comment by Jnr 3 days ago
Some censorhip and bias towards certain ideology is baked into those models.
While it is not a problem for programming tasks, I would never use it for certain other tasks.
Comment by Gareth321 3 days ago
Self-hosting means being able to use abliterated models where the superficial instructions like not describing Taiwan as independent are burned off.
Censorship and bias are related but not synonymous. I agree that it's harder to remove political bias when the training data includes it. We know many of the frontier models are heavily trained on Reddit, for example, [which likely explains why we see such heavy left wing bias.](https://trakkr.ai/bias/findings)
More citations:
https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/working-papers... (article: https://news.stanford.edu/stories/2025/05/ai-models-llms-cha...)
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/29974100.2026.2...
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/10817610
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2026/0...
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11127-023-01097-2
Comment by schiffern 3 days ago
>abliterated models where the superficial instructions like not describing Taiwan as independent are burned off
Does this help with issues like including security vulnerabilities when you say you're in Tibet? I understood that this was burned in at the training level, not just a layer of censorship added at the last minute.https://www.crowdstrike.com/en-us/blog/crowdstrike-researche...
Comment by Gareth321 3 days ago
Comment by Jnr 3 days ago
I am not saying I would not use any of them at all, but I would avoid doing certain tasks with them. And with the testing I have done with abliterated models in the past, it is not 100% successful and it can still hit the same walls as original model.
Comment by Gareth321 3 days ago
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Comment by deepersprout 2 days ago
In open models you can "uncensor" them: https://arxiv.org/abs/2406.11717
Comment by _ache_ 3 days ago
A lot more with Haiku equivalents (Qwen3.8 27B) or gemini. It's not frontier, but not that far away.
Comment by Gareth321 3 days ago
Comment by _ache_ 3 days ago
You may need a AMD EPYC processor and associated motherboard, don't forget a good PSU at least 1200W (300W processor + 400W by card to support spikes of consumption). On some setup (~15k€) you can use 4 CG to go up to 128G of VRAM.
I'm not using a EPYC processor for now, so I get 170tps on decode but very slow prefill, the bottleneck is the PCIe exchange between the cards, I need to setup P2P (it means what you think it means, for GCs).
My setup supports full context (2*18 bytes so 256K), I didn't setup YaRN to get 1M of context (2*20 bytes), but it's an option with 128GiB of RAM, the visual component is extracted from RAM so a little slower. I'm not using multiple agents but some people does, it's god like with 4 graphics cards, on 2 only, it's relatively quick but limited to single user and up to 3 to 4 concurrents requests only.
It's not frontier, but look AA of QFN, it's good enough. DeepSeek V4.1 can run on my setup, but it's slow. On dual B70, there is some PoCs to make it usable (>60tps). It improves every days.
If you need more information, look for local setup users on the Web. There is a lot of people sharing information about benchmarks and setups. L80 is my reference for now.
Edit: I translated the unity.
Comment by ashkankiani 3 days ago
Comment by _ache_ 3 days ago
octet => byte, https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Gio
Comment by jacquesm 2 days ago
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Comment by cft 3 days ago
Comment by Gareth321 3 days ago
Worryingly, they're taking a walled garden approach, and they don't want to expose user data to competitors. After the monumental failure of Siri over more than a decade, I don't trust Apple to execute competently on AI.
Comment by charcircuit 3 days ago
This is an alignment issue. OpenClaw with a local LLM with an email you setup for it could contact the police.
Comment by Gareth321 3 days ago
Comment by ceejayoz 3 days ago
Sorry, you're claiming local LLMs are somehow deterministic and never show unexpected behavior?
Comment by Gareth321 2 days ago
Comment by InsidiousWombat 3 days ago
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Comment by Forgeties79 3 days ago
Comment by bityard 3 days ago
Besides, I regularly see people here in HN spend a LOT more than that on hobbies and depreciating assets. A few years back, people with coastal salaries and tech jobs were tripping over themselves to spend $100k on a certain brand of trendy electric car.
Comment by Forgeties79 2 days ago
Comment by solyin 3 days ago
Comment by Forgeties79 3 days ago
This is all this stuff that dries people to pay for frontier models. Even running modest models requires a few thousand, unless you just want really lean ones. People don’t need frontier but it’s not cheap to effectively run, say, a 16gb Qwen 3.6 or 3.8 in the 30b range. Ram is like $15/gb and GPU’s with 16gb vram are hardly cheap.
Comment by dekhn 2 days ago
The lesson it taught me is that swapping is slow and that if it happens during your software development, you're much less productive. When I finally maxxed out the RAM on my machine, I could run linux + emacs + X11 + bash + g++ all at the same time, making me about 10X more productive. It's an investment and lesson that has helped me build my career over decades.
Comment by wtch98 3 days ago
Comment by Forgeties79 2 days ago
Comment by wtch98 2 days ago
Businesses were quite happy to spend $5k on technology for a worker if it makes things better, why wouldn't they today.
Comment by Forgeties79 1 day ago
This is not a straightforward business expense conversation IMO. Otherwise yes I do agree with you. A company should invest in supporting local models for their team.
Comment by sailfast 3 days ago
And what happens when the girl at the bar figures out that you TIMESHARE that Lambo?
Comment by segfaltnh 3 days ago
Comment by dekhn 2 days ago
My entire career has been based on purchasing the most hardware I could afford at home and using it near its peak. I've given up other life pleasures (dinners out, nicer car/housing) several times to max out my computational capacity.
Also hardware like this, if chosen carefully, often has a viable lifetime over 5+ years
Comment by Forgeties79 2 days ago
Comment by elevation 2 days ago
In case a future user wants to know what a 2026 model would refuse to do, I needed to rotate dozens of passwords last night both on the server and on the clients. When it was time to verify that the rotated credentials worked, I asked for a script that would rate limit the credential checks. Claude/opus5 (opus!!) refused and stopped in its tracks.
In another instance, Claude was making great headway bringing a legacy Windows app up in WINE until it’s saw “auth” somewhere and shut down. In the shutdown state, Claude asked me to reword the prompt to see if I could get it to act on less dangerous instructions. But when I reworded my request, narrowed the scope to be clearly unthreatening, or even redirected the model, it’s still rejected me. I suspect Anthropic uses the less suspicious rephrasing as training material to increase their rejection rate.
Comment by latentsea 3 days ago
So much this. Plus everything else you mentioned. The freedom and control is real.
Comment by dekhn 2 days ago
Comment by ceejayoz 3 days ago
> I don't get to hear that it's not a doctor and I should call 911.
Comment by mik1998 3 days ago
Anthropic has a significant interest in reducing liability, which in this case means mostly blocking this use case.
Comment by ceejayoz 3 days ago
Unfortunately, it's fairly tough for someone to determine if they are themselves a reasonable person.
A model that only ever says yes is a cognitohazard, IMO. Like being a billionaire without the money to insulate you from the consequences.
Comment by pluralmonad 2 days ago
Comment by ceejayoz 2 days ago
Sometimes, the requested information should be accompanied with a note like that.
Comment by segmondy 2 days ago
Comment by ceejayoz 2 days ago
Yes. I've also heard the cost (death) of people falling into pseudosciency rabbit holes.
Comment by JTbane 2 days ago
Comment by charcircuit 3 days ago
Local models can do this and with tool use they can even call emergency services for you on your behalf.
Comment by sharmajai 3 days ago
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Comment by segmondy 2 days ago
Comment by jack_pp 2 days ago
Also, it's not like you're running any full models on local without shelling out 20k+
Comment by jacquesm 3 days ago
Comment by Asyakguen 3 days ago
Comment by greesil 3 days ago
I've heard that there are legal software platforms like Clio that offer AI products, not sure what just eavesdropping on some lawyers at the bar.
Comment by jacquesm 3 days ago
Companies pretty much give us the full overview of what they have from a technical perspective (and often much more than that), we sign NDAs with investors that have serious teeth in them. The data they share with us would not be disclosed under any other circumstance and even our reports are shared only with the clients.
It's a nice little business. I'm not going to risk offending my customers for convenience or to save some money.
Comment by robotmay 3 days ago
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Comment by tjwebbnorfolk 3 days ago
They are subsidizing all of us to the tune of $billions in losses per month. That can't go on for a decade. Probably not even for another 18 months.
I still use all the tokens Claude will give me on the max plan. But I also run deepseek v4 locally for overflow and for... contingencies.
Comment by lelanthran 3 days ago
But, there is no need to make that bet - when prices increase, I'd look into renting a previous-gen GPU on a cloud provider. If the online GPU providers raise prices, then I would look into purchasing for on-site.
Until that happens, I'm not making any bets, because if all the token providers go bust GPU rentals are going to fall in price, and if they don't go bust after raising prices, I can still get years of GPUs for self-hosting at the price of a self-owned rig.
Comment by tjwebbnorfolk 2 days ago
It's not economical today to run my own hardware, but the insurance is worth it to me in the sense that if my bet is wrong, I'm still okay with paying extra for the protection.
Comment by calmingsolitude 3 days ago
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Comment by MarcusE1W 3 days ago
(Of course this all depends on if their plans work out, but if not then the smaller local models will probably play a big role in the failure of their plan)
Comment by murderfs 3 days ago
At API pricing (i.e. what all enterprise customers are paying), inference is profitable, even if they're paying usurious rates on cost of capital for capex. Where the frontier labs are getting screwed is that they're in a Red Queen's race with each other, spending tens of billions of dollars per year training the next frontier model, and not being able to recoup the investment on that model before it's obsolete.
That's why you see the CEOs calling for government intervention to "pace the frontier": it lets them reduce investment on training without risking that their competitors keep going and make them obsolete. Unfortunately for them, the Chinese labs exist, and would love nothing more than to take the frontier, so they're in a bit of a pickle.
Comment by roca 3 days ago
Comment by ThunderSizzle 3 days ago
However, that also means AI will be even more lobotomized since the cloud providers will panic over being liable
Comment by root_axis 3 days ago
People keep repeating this, but it is only remotely close to true if you evaluate inference in a vacuum without any of the other supporting costs to facilitate that capability.
Just a few years ago people were saying the same thing about WeWork: "leasing is profitable, the unit economics of individual locations is net positive", and yet...
Comment by m4rtink 3 days ago
- they raise the prices 10x
- go bankrupt
- ban you or your country
- decide not to help you with what you want to do for opaque reasons
- you are in jail because the model halucinated something and the company promptly reported you to the police
Better avoid all off these and go local IMHO.
Comment by pixl97 2 days ago
Just note that your local model can 100% do this itself.
Comment by ffsm8 3 days ago
The anthropic sub is likely still subventioned with VC money. So this may not even be available in 2 years.
But yeah, with current sub prices/budget... It's hard to go with anyone else unless you're rich.
Comment by ffsm8 3 days ago
The anthropic sub is likely still subventioned with VC money. So this may not even be available in 2 years.
But yeah, with current sub prices/budget... It'd stick with it too
Comment by reacharavindh 3 days ago
It doesn’t have to be black or white…
For my toy projects, adventures, learning exercises, and throwaway MVPs I will prefer the subscription plans… they are cheap for what they offer today.
Comment by thaanpaa 3 days ago
It's training and tuning new models that cost them money. And that's why they are trying to scare people into thinking AI will kill us all in the next 5 years; they want bans on the open-weight models because they know they won't be able to compete with them.
Comment by pimeys 3 days ago
If that is true, either the American labs are not optimizing correctly or they make a ton of money with inference.
Comment by bityard 3 days ago
Hydro, wind, solar, nuclear, coal, they are building it all, as we speak, at least 10x more than the US. They are aiming to not just be energy independent, but energy dominant.
You can't now (and certainly won't in the future) be able to run an AI provider in the West as profitably as you can in China.
Comment by GeekyBear 3 days ago
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Comment by windexh8er 3 days ago
It's also very clear that providers are running variants of models, especially at the SotA levels. I wouldn't be surprised to find out at some point that 1-2 months after release OAI and Anthropic just run "good enough" quants to save themselves on inference (since they're losing money hand over fist). Another upside of local models is that I don't need to worry about model degradation at any given point.
Comment by benoau 3 days ago
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Comment by gr_norm 3 days ago
Just think of how user-hostile other online services have gotten, and imagine how acutely painful the proprietary LLM providers could make theirs. Thankfully, open models provide some counterbalance.
Comment by selcuka 3 days ago
Are you comparing to subscription prices or API prices? Because if it's the former it won't last forever.
Comment by jacquesm 3 days ago
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Comment by e12e 2 days ago
You say the big rig is 25k - and then the two sparks are about 1k each?
Electricity is for "just" the big rig?
Comment by DanielHB 3 days ago
Comment by jacquesm 13 hours ago
Comment by bitexploder 3 days ago
My server can run Qwen Flash Next at 500 t/s aggregate (about 200 t/s single user). It's pretty great. I use it for local coding and all my worker agents. It is about as reliable as Sonnet 5 for agentic coding. I make 3D models, keep the home network and server updated, fully built ansible files.
You do NOT need 20K in hardware to run these models reliably. I built my own inference engine from scratch for fun. You can run Strata on 16-32GB cards at very respectable token rates if you have the standard RAM to go with it. I strongly encourage people to go use this model on OpenRouter and try it out for tasks.
I also have a somewhat lobotimized quant of GLM Flash 5.3 working and it's pretty decent too.
Comment by jacquesm 3 days ago
I have 240G VRAM total which is a good reason why that rig cost as much as it does, and if I were to build it at today's prices it would be even more expensive.
Comment by bitexploder 3 days ago
Kind of ironic, but it's the only way. I just really like this as an option. For a household LLM I have the IQ4_K_XL quant and plenty of capacity for everything you could want in a household LLM and it is trustworthy enough to not rm -rf /, etc.
And yeah that is a really nice amount! You can run and compose a lot of interesting models, vision capabilities. IDK. Plus this level of model is far more interactive in the sense that it can implement a well scoped ticket or unit of work but its not going to magically just figure some things out without guidance or a spec :)
Comment by jacquesm 3 days ago
I tried getting some 170's when I first heard about that unlock but they were already unobtanium by then. That would have been a nice way to add a lot of VRAM.
GLM 5.3 runs pretty comfortably on this rig, even with large context.
Comment by glyphRain 3 days ago
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Comment by bradknowles 2 days ago
I’ve always wondered about those models. Are we just sending all of our data over to China, instead of ChatGPT or Claude? Can we trust them any more than we do ChatGPT or Claude?
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Comment by Shorel 3 days ago
At best they get a fine, and it will not make a dent in their cash reserves.
Comment by Betelbuddy 3 days ago
But I was not even suggesting that, just run your local LLM on Cloud infra. Do you really believe they are ready to risk their Cloud business just to spy on your prompts?
Comment by dmantis 3 days ago
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Comment by jacquesm 3 days ago
Then again, I run a business and for the business it is absolutely manageable, it is roughly the price of a single job. Privately this would be a different matter but I assume that if you would do this privately you'd simply get a single (but powerful) GPU second hand and offload to RAM. Not as fast but with llama.cpp, 'ninfer', DwarfStar and various other clones of those two you can get some pretty decent performance out of single GPUs.
I've been buying powerful hardware since the 90's, starting with SGI and then ever larger Linux boxes. I make my living with them so it's never been a huge decision to invest some of the proceeds back into the tools. But on an absolute scale, yes, it is a lot of money.
Comment by Eridrus 2 days ago
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Comment by lp92 2 days ago
What's your use case where the open models are working well?
Comment by AndrewKemendo 3 days ago
I’m running local models more and more and starting to move to just tailscaling into everything
Comment by sjdh76 3 days ago
I mean IBM already has a track record of building gigantic amounts of garbage and over charging large corps and govts for it coasting on their brand name and networks to get deals. So using some cheap ass model fits their MO. Having used their shit mountain called websphere, what an IBM CEO says is not something I take too seriously.
Comment by jacquesm 3 days ago
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Comment by dansquizsoft 3 days ago
I can't wait to use models that are 'slightly less good' when I am at work instead of something like Fable that lets me focus on the problem at hand as much as possible rather than also spending additional effort correcting for the tool I am using...
Comment by sp527 3 days ago
Comment by Frannky 3 days ago
I do use Anthropic and OpenAI mostly because it costs me 1/40 and 1/50 of the api prices, which is way cheaper than Chinese subscriptions, but I’m ready to jump ship when they pull the plug. Fortunately they have nothing that forces me to keep paying them, and I don’t pay the crazy enterprise subscription costs, just the personal account prices.
I also die to be able to run the OSS setup locally to stop being spied on all the time.
For context, I averaged 10 hours a day prompting LLMs from when ChatGPT came out. At the start it was just function generation, then single file modules, then modules, and now I reason, design, implement and test with them.
An interesting thing is that with omp you can plan with a smart model and then implement with a dumber one. So for example, plan with Kimi 3.1 via OpenRouter and then implement with DSFV4 with zero data retention active, sorted by cheapest, and minimal tps accepted.
I get the people who are pissed about their cushy jobs evaporating, but if you know how to use these technologies it’s very freeing because it’s like having a company of people working for you, except they are not human so they’re not wasting their life working for you instead of using it for themselves.
You can make them do pretty much everything that is fuzzy-verifiable, you don’t have to worry about their feelings or that they won’t do what you asked them to do or stop, and you can activate them when you want at scale in parallel or not use them at all for days.
For me it’s a dream honestly. I never felt so much empowered in my life while being enabled to unlock my creativity with almost no boundaries.
Comment by lsvg 3 days ago
I geniuinely don't see what I could make with this new tech, my brain immediately goes to "this app idea is worthless, anybody can make it now".
Comment by mattlondon 3 days ago
It's like having extra copies of yourself that you can just fork and get stuff done. E.g. the other day I was in a meeting and there were some heavy discussions about a few gnarly issues. I fired off a few prompts in parallel while the AI researches options, approaches, made a prototype etc all while I was present and paying attention still in the face to face meeting. I am so much so much more efficient as an engineer now - getting better feedback, more bonuses etc. It's never been better - I handle thinking about the requirements, the computer science and software engineering big picture etc, and the AI handles the syntax trivia for implementation.
The models are really really good now.
The only downside is that as a result of more stuff getting done, we need to have more meetings to discuss what actually needs to be worked on.
Comment by stemlord 2 days ago
Comment by mancerayder 3 days ago
I've seen developers use Claude to make suggestions for infrastructure design that made absolutely no sense and did not consider our environment. I've seen people write English that grammatically made sense but logically did not.
I don't see enough complaints about this and it can't be just my company.
Is anyone else seeing really severe Dunning-Kruger?
I always check what AI says to me, and I use my own words. I think the average engineer is not.
Comment by mattlondon 3 days ago
They call this "slop" - I think it is well known at this point?
Comment by mancerayder 2 days ago
That it's a degradation in some environments? There's not a lot being said about this. The laments are usually developers sad that they're prompting instead of coding. My lament isn't about the art of it, it's the human reasoning that seems to have gone away in my workplace when it comes to engineers.
Comment by Sammi 3 days ago
You are a consumer, so you naturally think like the consumer you are. But consumers want cheap stuff and only big big businesses are able to provide cheap stuff at massive scale. So stop thinking in b2c. For us little businesses the money is in b2b. Businesses pay lots of money to have problems solved. They want to focus on their core business and outsource the rest.
Consumers hate paying subscriptions. Businesses love paying subscriptions. Because then they can make their problems someone else's problem and focus on what their actual business is.
Comment by motionlessveloc 3 days ago
Comment by dannyw 3 days ago
Maybe it’s 1% or 10% today, but a decade ago, having/assembling the technical chops to know how to build something was a huge part of the meat / barrier to entry.
Comment by smodo 3 days ago
If code becomes cheaper that may change the business fundamentals but it also means capturing customers becomes way harder.
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Comment by nemo44x 3 days ago
Now that opportunity cost is much lower so experimentation is more practical than before.
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Comment by robotmay 2 days ago
I also do repairs and so I recently added a job management system into the POS, which has been really useful so far. Next step is to sort out the online store/eBay integration aspect!
Comment by mopsi 3 days ago
I've found it very liberating that I can handle some of the tedious parts of a project to AI. In the end, I spend perhaps the same amount of time on a project, but more of it goes to important work and less gets wasted on plumbing.
Comment by lsvg 3 days ago
I am however worried that for the kind of work that the majority of the worlds tech workers do, this is a direct replacement for.
I guess we'll have to live to see.
Comment by texruska 3 days ago
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Comment by deno 3 days ago
Sol and Opus both are quite eager to use subagents and since the subagent tasks are often well specified and then verified by the main model there's hardly any advantage to using anything better for the subagent anyway, so IMO it's a no-brainer.
For me switching the main model to Kimi K3.1 Pro would put me towards 100% open, but I don't know if it uses subagents effectively. Any other open models I noticed just don't utilize them very much.
Comment by DanielHB 3 days ago
But the lock-in is not _that_ big that a big co could not pull off a migration, but it would be like migrating from Teams to Slack, not like migrating away from Adobe.
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Comment by nemo44x 3 days ago
Looking at our AI spend today vs 1 year ago we have massive changes. Anything that can bring this under control and potentially save millions a year is being explored.
We will probably end up with a combo of open weight models for most work and frontier models for key projects. For now. Who knows what the landscape looks like in 1 year.
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Comment by rstuart4133 2 days ago
Cheaper than the API prices you pay on openrouter. But not cheaper than this:
https://www.alibabacloud.com/help/en/model-studio/token-plan...
Comment by jains99 3 days ago
Comment by mbreese 3 days ago
This is more of a statement for their consulting customers, right?
Comment by jhickok 3 days ago
Comment by mbreese 3 days ago
I can picture that they’d have the software side sorted out with RedHat. But I don’t know what hardware they’d push to support local on-premises models. It looks like when you buy Fusion HCI, you can choose from Dell or Lenovo as the underlying hardware supplier.
Comment by jacquesm 3 days ago
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Comment by jacquesm 3 days ago
That doesn't detract from your overall point that they tend to make overpriced stuff, but I don't think they have to do that. Besides, what's overpriced? NVidia's GB300 workstation sells for 95K euros, a single RTX 6000 is now 20K. Surely even IBM can compete at that level.
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Comment by jacquesm 3 days ago
I think IBM sees the Spyre as a reason to sell more Power hardware but that's just not where the industry is right now and I doubt it will be enough to create sufficient demand. Who knows, I don't have any insight in what they're doing there, but there is massive gap between A GB300 workstation and what IBM currently offers. At the same time: the RAM crunch hits all parties and that's a major obstacle as well.
Comment by solyin 3 days ago
That's the thing though. Software is cheap with AI, but Nvidia has Cuda. If software doesn't matter anymore (it does) because it's so cheap now, then Nvidia's moat evaporates to IBM's Spyre. In reality "just a little bit of software" has inertia and cannot be dislodged quickly, quietly, or easily. cf Microsoft.
Comment by jacquesm 3 days ago
As for CUDA: I think CUDA is a formidable moat but I also think that that is precisely the kind of thing where the likes of IBM could (if they really wanted to) make things happen. They're already in the space with Redhat and they have ample knowledge about drivers and low level code. Putting together a team that either makes a drop-in replacement or alternatively, that starts supporting their custom hardware for the big players in the inference space (VLLM, llama.cpp and Torch) would make all the difference. They'd have to keep doing it though, even if the initial results were lower than expected because that market is not going to turn on a dime.
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Comment by alienbaby 3 days ago
They do? They are a spec in the ocean relative to big players offering inference and training their own models. Pretty sure one thing they are struggling with is the money to compete successfully in the ai game this time around.
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Yeah they were only half a decade late to the PC revolution back in the day...
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Comment by jacquesm 3 days ago
I've never seen Tandy used outside of Europe but then again, I had not traveled as much then as now so it's definitely possible they used the brand on other continents as well. I wonder how many trees were cut for those catalogs :)
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Comment by verdverm 3 days ago
If you have ever worked at IBM, it makes total sense. Completely dysfunctional middle management and on up.
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Comment by DanielHB 3 days ago
It was pure coincidence that the AI-craze neatly followed the crypto-craze (many neo-clouds in the AI space were originally crypto miners).
Comment by montagg 3 days ago
Comment by DanielHB 3 days ago
Yes it would have costed them more to train the first few versions of ChatGPT if it wasn't for the crypto mayham, but it would still happen. The hardware was always available and still improving regardless of crypto or not.
Comment by aquentinn 2 days ago
Comment by jillesvangurp 3 days ago
In comparison, my highend mac book pro costs 105 euro per month (leasing cost). That's not quite enough to run the bigger models and besides running the GPU on a laptop constantly makes it a bit hostile for my lap. And the model I would need a lot more memory for the bigger models. It's nice for experimenting though.
If you get your own GPUs in some kind of server form, you could run those locally or in a data center. Or you just get hardware resources from your favorite cloud provider. Hetzner (one of the more affordable ones) GPU servers start at around 200 euro per month. I know some people that use that with open weight models. Works fine, especially if you can share the resources between multiple users.
At which point of course you are doing the same as cloud based providers are doing. But probably with a bit worse economics. It all boils down to whether you are actually saving money or paying for a lot of underutilized hardware that's running 24x7 when your people actually only show up about 8x5.
I don't think most companies should be doing that. It sounds like they'd end up with a lot of idling over capacity at a premium. The only valid reasons to do this would be securing access to GPUs or some very urgent need to keep things on premise (which a lot of companies insist is true for them until they realize how much they are going to pay).
Comment by aleph_minus_one 3 days ago
It's also about "insurance protection" against the AI company raising the prices or changing their terms (e.g. becoming more frugal with respect to token drops).
Comment by kevmo314 3 days ago
Comment by jillesvangurp 2 days ago
If you are running your own models on your own hardware you take a bunch of risk as well. Is your hardware capable enough to run your models? Do you have enough of it and access to more when you need to? And is the stuff that you picked still going to be good enough in six months? And can you trust those model providers that you picked to keep up with the rest of the industry or are they going to fall behind and leave you stuck with obsolete but still very expensive technology.
Of course, this is an article about IBM who are in the business of selling consulting and services at a premium. They would probably love companies to self host their models on infrastructure that IBM supplies and consults on (for obvious reasons). The question is, should you buy what they are selling or can you do better? My simple observation here is that if companies like IBM are getting excited it's probably because they are looking to separate a lot of companies from some pretty significant cash. So, I'd be wary to buy what they are selling. But that's just me.
In a rapidly evolving market with extreme levels of uncertainty around tech and what will happen next, being reluctant to get pinned down on the wrong solutions is probably a good instinct. The biggest risk here is making the wrong bets. And you need to look at what it's going to cost you if you get it wrong and what it's going to cost you to fix it.
Comment by aleph_minus_one 3 days ago
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Comment by awesan 3 days ago
So it matters a lot that these open-weight models are good enough; we would likely not be rolling out this new processing if it was fully dependent on Anthropic and OpenAI.
Comment by mattlondon 3 days ago
I had a really nice time with GLM5.2 for a month or two - it was, in my experience, approx Opus 4.5ish level of capability when I think Opus 4.8 was the new hotness
Even today, I use Gemini 3.8 Flash as my daily driver for most coding. Its fast and good, even if it is not the absolute SOTA at coding benchmarks it really is very good. Yes I have tried Opus 5.5 and 4 Argon etc and yes the are better, but do I need that?
I think that we are going to be at the stage soon-enough where models are "good enough" for 99% of people's needs. The SOTA will keep on marching ever-onwards I am sure, but I would not be surprised if people stick with previous-gen/previous-previous-gen/etc models because why upgrade?
If this does play out like this, I do wonder how that works out for the frontier labs (specifically OpenAI and Anthropic, less so Meta & Google) - if open models or even just cheaper Sonnet-level models from a few generations ago are good enough for basically everyone's daily work, where is the revenue? how can you justify pumping billions and billions into new generation models and datacenters etc when there is no driving need to use them?
Comment by roncesvalles 3 days ago
For work in which you are in the loop, absolutely. Do people not value their own time or something? Why in the world would you use less than the best LLM available to you? You're not going to run out of the $20 plan even if you use Opus 5.5 at xhigh and code 8 hours/day (assuming you're doing it piecewise using a Claude product) so what exactly are you conserving by using something inferior?
For large continuous volumes of programmatically submitted LLM tasks, sure.
Comment by hhh 3 days ago
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Comment by mattlondon 3 days ago
Could your survive on say Opus 4.8? Or GLM 5.3?
I bet you could if you had to.
I think it's the same argument about cars. Why wouldn't you want a Ferrari? Do you not value your time? Why not go as fast as physically possible?! You need the absolute fastest, most-capable, best-handling car for every single journey you take! Or... Back in reality not every journey you take is trying to lap the track as quickly as possible and just any reasonable car will get you where you need to go.
This is my point. Will Anthropic and OpenAI continue to exist selling Ferraris when actually people realise they can get by with a Toyota Corolla 99% of the time? Ferrari exists in the car world so I guess there is an argument for "yes". I am not sure myself - Ferraris are after all rare and exotic cars ... I suspect that even if we are not there now, we are already seeing current SOTA models that are mostly equivalent/better than the average engineer - another generation or two they'll be waaaaay better than the average engineer. How much more car do you need, and how much are you prepared to pay for it?
At least for me, I don't like using Opus or Fable because I don't like the way it talks to me (talking down to me, refusals, moral high-grounding, overly pomposity etc). 3.8 Flash is currently my favourite model due to how it communicates and works with me and the speed is much better suited for rapid iteration. So put me in the comfortable, reliable, use-it-every-day-to-get-shit-done-with-no-fuss Toyota Corolla camp. Its good enough for me and I don't get any benefits in my day to day life by using Opus 5.5 and it's sanctimonious personality.
Comment by ecshafer 3 days ago
Comment by mattlondon 2 days ago
I think this is a very high likelihood scenario.
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Comment by hypfer 3 days ago
This is a win though. But not for the reasons people might think it is.
It is a win because it's a massive player now countering the new (temporary) behemoths. With all the leverage, budget and connections.
And contrary to the AI Labs, IBM isn't just that one SV rockstar dude, but a whole org with tons of people. Meaning that they're going to be far closer to the baseline of sane humans just from averaging alone.
Comment by ggeorgovassilis 3 days ago
Comment by le-mark 3 days ago
IBM of today is a hallow corpse of what it was. The hardware business remains but they’ve mastered extracting rent from imprisoned customers long ago. No sane person should willing go into business with them, same as Oracle.
Comment by hypfer 3 days ago
They are many people and none of them are in some sort of AI death cult like the EA polycule.
They're not suddenly good guys. They're just sane
Comment by djelu 3 days ago
Comment by wanqing_street 3 days ago
If the vendor price is calibrated to a ten-month hardware payback, then at equal utilization there is no arbitrage in self-hosting: the crossover is roughly whether your sustained API spend exceeds the hardware plus that ten months. DeepSeek's own disclosed numbers give the benchmark to beat: 226.75 H800 nodes averaged over a day (~1,814 GPUs), 608B input tokens/day of which 56.3% hit the KV cache, 168B output tokens/day, ~73.7k tok/s input per node while prefilling and ~14.8k tok/s output while decoding.
That utilization is the hard part, and it is roughly what the IBM CEO is pointing at with "where are my kernel engineers". Self-hosting open weights on two or three racks is not the problem; amortizing them at a frontier lab's duty cycle is.
Comment by rglover 3 days ago
The frontier labs are in a tough spot. It's hard to justify their cost when you can get something that's easily as good for cheaper (and anecdotally, more reliable/accessible). I do HITL so my perspective will be different than a fully-agentic setup, but as soon as I started using open stuff regularly, I realized that any moat the US labs had built is drying up.
Comment by vorticalbox 3 days ago
Comment by dofm 2 days ago
Though if you have the room for it, Muse Glimmer is better in practice on low reasoning strength, and while its token generation is slow, it actually gets to answers pretty quickly.
Comment by vorticalbox 2 days ago
Comment by dofm 2 days ago
"There are dozens of us!"
The thing you need to know about Muse is that you control its reasoning/thinking depth in the system prompt (low/medium/high/xhigh):
Reasoning strength: low
… is pretty responsive and I've found its time to first answer to be surprisingly good.It is broadly comparable to Qwen 3.8 27B on "low" thinking, though it is weaker on very long context, one-shot stuff, but I dunno… I just like it more as a developer companion.
(I'm using Unsloth's version)
Comment by nemo44x 3 days ago
This is what will cook frontier AI and probably prevent the investment scale to happen for AGI. Humans + good enough cheap AI is just more economic and unbelievably productive. Like why we fly on jet technology from the 1960s still with incremental improvements.
It’s why Anthropic is desperate for capital and trying to get to a scale where AGI appears. But I’m afraid they won’t get there in time and the money to build the bigger model will have dried up.
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Comment by dopa42365 3 days ago
Does Ferrari have any moat if it can't convince the government to ban Ford?
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Comment by verdverm 3 days ago
we technologists tend to extend what we see and think to other realms where it doesn't make sense
Comment by fg137 3 days ago
I really wanted to tell her -- what she needed was compute, not hardware. Her best bet was to rent GPU which is easily available from many services. If she was paid to run inference, cost is not a concern. If she did it for her own work, she wouldn't need to shell out a ton of money initially and then be left with hardware that she no longer needs when the work is done. In any case, she wouldn't need to worry about purchasing hardware or battery life. ssh to a remote machine is simply way superior than running inference on a laptop she carries around by any means except in a few rare occasions (e.g. no Internet access).
Same thing for a company. Why would any company who has a business to run get themselves burned in acquiring GPUs, setting up racks, load balancing etc when Bedrock/Azure Foundry etc is right there with tons of both open and closed models and ZDR? And then see hardware depreciate in just a few years?
Comment by luis_valerio 2 days ago
Comment by tesnorindian 3 days ago
I was able to get this related article
https://rcrtech.com/semiconductor-news/what-happens-to-old-a...
Comment by Hasz 3 days ago
I am not a believer in winner-take-all mechanics for models (even for AGI -- look no further than the natural world for many examples), and a large F50 company committing money/strategy to something outside the frontier labs is a great thing for the ecosystem.
Comment by fatihserhattura 3 days ago
Comment by robrenaud 3 days ago
Maybe your law firm doesn't want your data going outside your business. But you obviously want high quality analysis.
Comment by dofm 2 days ago
In the IBM-specific sense, the most unintentionally hilarious LLM interaction I have ever had was asking Granite’s 4.2 30B reasoning variant the car wash question.
Reams and reams of corporatese about why it wasn’t wrong when it was.
Comment by Havoc 3 days ago
Is it though? You’re likely paying more on prem per unit of electricity and the racks of NVIDIA cards also aren’t exactly cheap.
I don’t see how that leads to 10%. I can see it being a good pitch if you’re in the biz of selling on prem servers though
Comment by echelon 3 days ago
Happy to sell you some Oracle too.
Comment by mancerayder 3 days ago
What are the tools to look at first for usable models at that thin compute capacity and how do you go about exploring training for hobby and learning purposes?
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Comment by slashtrends 3 days ago
I imagine they are panicking a little with LLMs reducing the reliance on external companies for software support, so they are really hoping to shift it to on-prem AI, which is where the bias in his statement comes from.
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Comment by trollbridge 3 days ago
While he thinks most businesses can build useful AI infrastructure in just two or three racks, he feels many will struggle to get it running.
“The question becomes: how do you do that?” he said. “The question that the enterprise struggles with is: ‘Where are my kernel engineers? Where are the people who worry about the underlying network? Who can make sure that the model is clustered on GPUs that are close to each other in network proximity? Who can make sure that you’re doing the right caching of results so you get an incredible response?’”
Has he heard of “agentic AI”? You simply fire up Claude or ChatGPT and ask it how to do all of the above.Comment by liorn 3 days ago
Comment by trollbridge 3 days ago
Comment by liorn 3 days ago
The optimal inference configuration varies according to the model, the specific traffic (which changes in time), and the specific hardware it's running to. The "knowledge" for it doesn't exist yet.
Usually in similar scenarios an agent will try to experiment with various configurations and get to a good result. However, you can't have an agent test out different inference serving configurations/architectures, since every experiment might involves 10-60 minutes of spinning up a model (on very expensive GPUs)...
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Comment by wg0 3 days ago
DeepSeek v4.1 Flash or GLM 3 are already very very capable models.
Only bottleneck at the moment is the hardware prices.
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[1] - https://www.ibm.com/downloads/documents/us-en/17f55bd310d5fd...
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Comment by bob1029 3 days ago
If you absolutely need to scale something vertically, IBM Z is the final stop on the line.
X86 is great at hosting an entire farm of applications. You would never want to install salesforce or gitlab on a mainframe. That would completely defeat its purpose. If you've never encountered an appropriate workload, IBM might never make intuitive sense.
Also, the roadmap:
https://newsroom.ibm.com/2026-08-24-ibm-unveils-next-generat...
Comment by zombot 3 days ago
Honest question: What would such a workload look like? Why would Salesforce or GitLab not make sense on a mainframe?
Comment by jamesfinlayson 3 days ago
Lots of work went into integration and it never went live.
Comment by andsoitis 3 days ago
For one thing, amongst many, IBM mainframes process 70% of global transactions on a value basis
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Cerebras with Claude 8?
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