Houthis 'take control' of key island in global shipping route
Posted by consumer451 1 day ago
Comments
Comment by bhouston 22 hours ago
Apparently, this helped the Houthis advance quickly as the opposition forces were in disarray.
Comment by autoexec 22 hours ago
Comment by BLKNSLVR 21 hours ago
Comment by InsideOutSanta 18 hours ago
Comment by Barrin92 16 hours ago
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/aug/12/truth-social...
it's actually amazing to type that out and notice it's not a joke
Comment by noir_lord 15 hours ago
Comment by throwaway85825 20 hours ago
Comment by bluegatty 19 hours ago
The military units are not very well organized, they don't have clear and stringent command, control and communications.
They understood a regional commander to be fleeing, units fell back.
This is kind of stuff is absolutely as old as time, and it's #1 rule in conflict aka deception.
The parallel would be reproducing a General's order to withdraw - meaning the command would have legitimacy among troops and junior officers, believing their own commanders were just out of the loop.
And yes - their command structure will be de facto organized along social lines, but it's more descriptive.
Comment by CoastalCoder 12 hours ago
I've only very recently become interested in ancient history, so I'm still very ignorant about this.
Are there any particular examples of this tactic you'd suggest studying?
Comment by bluegatty 12 hours ago
"18. All warfare is based on deception. "
AoW is one of the most important historical treatises, it's not just 'something that was written in history', maybe the oldest true 'textbooks' of objective knowledge, and also realpolitik. Also there's hints of metaphysics in there, in a way. It absolutely stands up today.
The very first work of the Western Cannon: Trojan Horse.
Information / espionage and deception has made most of history; Hannibal, Caesar, Alexander etc.
A fun exercise would be to look at battles of history from the lens of information warfare and deception, and contemplate the outcome without it.
Comment by encrypted_bird 11 hours ago
Comment by pseudohadamard 12 hours ago
Comment by CoastalCoder 3 hours ago
I'm case it's helpful to anyone, here's one review of it: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2vxts5/comme...
Seems like a tough area of history to be certain about.
Comment by culi 15 hours ago
Comment by apexalpha 21 hours ago
You’d lose a lot of money always waiting for news through officials channels.
Who knows how slow Yemini military channels are.
You’d bet your life on it?
Comment by autoexec 21 hours ago
Yes, our current President also does stupid things, and our military forces shouldn't be using his incoherent ramblings on Twitter to make snap judgements on the battlefield without checking with their chain of command either.
Comment by ElProlactin 20 hours ago
You mean the chain of command that has been purged of experienced professionals?
Comment by sixothree 19 hours ago
Comment by apexalpha 7 hours ago
Most European countries know this feeling. :)
Comment by ElProlactin 19 hours ago
You don't even need to try because it's not happening.
Comment by IAmBroom 20 hours ago
This is why it succeeded: lizard brain decisions overcame training in the armed forces.
Comment by consumer451 21 hours ago
Comment by CommanderData 21 hours ago
Comment by kryogen1c 22 hours ago
Where in the battlefield decision making process are they listening to social media recordings to make combat decisions?
Comment by lopsotronic 21 hours ago
Sauds, on the other hand . . .
Comment by tim333 20 hours ago
Comment by Arodex 21 hours ago
Comment by TitaRusell 17 hours ago
Comment by bpodgursky 22 hours ago
Even in the Russia/Ukraine conflict they use Telegram for basic operations. All chat applications are dual-use.
Comment by londons_explore 22 hours ago
But leaks of those messages onto twitter are probably the most valuable info source for what the enemy is doing.
Comment by SoftTalker 21 hours ago
Comment by throwaway85825 20 hours ago
Comment by kryogen1c 22 hours ago
I have no idea, but Im certain that twitter recordings do not put frontline forces in disarray.
> use Telegram for basic operations
an encrypted private communication channel is very different than public social media
Comment by prmoustache 14 hours ago
Comment by bpodgursky 21 hours ago
Comment by kryogen1c 20 hours ago
I dont know that its a matter of professionalism. Everyone in the world has known that AI can generate video and audio that is imperceptibly fake, for years. And thats to say nothing of man-made forgeries in the years prior.
I have a hard time seeing people on the front line throwing down arms and running away because of an unsourced twitter clip.
Comment by fluffybucktsnek 20 hours ago
Comment by bpodgursky 20 hours ago
And then recognize that the normies you talk to are VASTLY MORE internet-savvy than the illiterate child soldiers on the front lines in Yemen. You have no concept of the info environment they live in. It is all magic electronic soup.
Comment by IAmBroom 20 hours ago
> I have no idea, but Im certain that twitter recordings do not put frontline forces in disarray.
And yet as a counterexample: reality.
Comment by consumer451 22 hours ago
I don't want to live in interesting times anymore.
Comment by jb3689 22 hours ago
Comment by mitxela 22 hours ago
Comment by culi 15 hours ago
Comment by nonsensical_ 22 hours ago
Comment by throwaway85825 20 hours ago
Comment by electrondood 22 hours ago
https://www-cdn.anthropic.com/e50be2e51e7695dc4b1366a37a245a...
Comment by jollyllama 22 hours ago
"But I don't see it helping us, it's just helping our enemies get closer to parity ."
"Precisely. How else are we going to justify the budget?"
Comment by tencentshill 22 hours ago
Comment by wbl 22 hours ago
Comment by tencentshill 20 hours ago
Comment by chasd00 20 hours ago
Comment by consumer451 22 hours ago
Obviously, it's happening with all decent models.
Comment by ericd 22 hours ago
Comment by consumer451 22 hours ago
Comment by 15155 21 hours ago
The point of regulation is to kill competitors and prevent private individuals from having unfettered access.
Comment by ericd 21 hours ago
Comment by consumer451 21 hours ago
This is the most "I get both sides" issue in my mind these days. I am still not sure where I fall, or if there is even a correct position with which to agree. It really seems like there are no good options.
On the one hand, if all knowledge work ended up in two dude's hands, that is really bad. On the other hand, if every surviving child victim of war (US, RU, IL, CN, whatever) has access to the knowledge to make custom viruses for a few grand, that is also really bad.
Comment by ericd 17 hours ago
Comment by 9cb14c1ec0 22 hours ago
Comment by addandsubtract 20 hours ago
Comment by shevy-java 20 hours ago
Comment by hn993302 20 hours ago
Comment by Georgelemental 19 hours ago
Comment by DANmode 19 hours ago
with the press of a USB key or other device into/onto what you’re using.
This can be used to verify consistent identities for the cost of an AirTag or less - but without mandating it as a government-involved thing, which is most of the holdup.
Comment by moralestapia 22 hours ago
We should stop everybody else from developing AI, except for both of them which are the most appropriate stewards for this technology.
Comment by 2OEH8eoCRo0 22 hours ago
Comment by sejje 22 hours ago
Do they have a chain of command? Are people in charge?
Comment by MSFT_Edging 22 hours ago
Comment by accountrequired 22 hours ago
Comment by tt24 22 hours ago
Comment by mamonster 23 hours ago
Comment by jollyllama 22 hours ago
Comment by ciconia 21 hours ago
Comment by jollyllama 20 hours ago
Comment by TitaRusell 5 hours ago
Comment by throwaway85825 20 hours ago
Comment by throw0101a 15 minutes ago
People need to keep in mind tactical versus strategic success. For Iran, the military operation was a complete tactical success, it's just that the strategic goals — assuming there were any to begin with, which seems to be an unanswered question — were not, and it was questionable whether military operations were a useful tool to achieve them at all.
“War is the continuation of policy with other means.” — Carl von Clausewitz
'What is one's stated policy / goal, and is war a useful tool for achieve it', is a question that needs to be asked by civilian leadership. Sometimes (often?) the answer is "no".
Comment by oblio 12 hours ago
It's not a perfect book, but it illustrates a lot of military failures that haven't really been encountered much in the West in the last 80 years.
Comment by watwut 17 hours ago
Comment by throwaway-11-1 13 hours ago
Comment by watwut 2 hours ago
Comment by culi 15 hours ago
I don't think native Yemeni are motivated enough to fight for unification. That's why all the fighters are mercenaries hired by the UAE or Yemen
Comment by tptacek 15 hours ago
Comment by dzonga 2 hours ago
idealogical fighters fight to the death. & in almost every case besides the nazi's etc they always win. whether the ideology is right or wrong that's a conversation for a different day.
Comment by 15155 21 hours ago
Comment by inglor_cz 22 hours ago
Comment by red_admiral 21 hours ago
Comment by MBCook 22 hours ago
Comment by jurgenburgen 22 hours ago
Comment by mitxela 22 hours ago
Comment by throwaway85825 20 hours ago
Comment by culi 15 hours ago
Comment by zippothrowaway 22 hours ago
Comment by lbreakjai 18 hours ago
Comment by random3 22 hours ago
Comment by hn993302 20 hours ago
Comment by dgellow 22 hours ago
Comment by tfigueroa 22 hours ago
Comment by sorushn 22 hours ago
Comment by rxyz 22 hours ago
Comment by Apocryphon 22 hours ago
Comment by softwaredoug 23 hours ago
Those conditions seem to be changing.
Comment by AnotherGoodName 23 hours ago
I suspect the Chinese won’t be happy with the pipeline and refinery attacks on Saudi Arabia but i also assume that there will still be plenty of Chinese bound oil for the foreseeable future.
Comment by 0xbadcafebee 18 hours ago
Comment by rurp 22 hours ago
Not that they are doing it for this reason, but they have done a lot to shield trump from the consequences of his stupid war. But those supplies can only hold for so long; things can get much worse for the world economy in the near future.
Comment by 0cf8612b2e1e 21 hours ago
Even with that, global strategic petroleum reserves are quickly draining. Last I looked, the US was down to ~290M. There is a legal limit of 250M (though laws don’t matter anymore). The structural floor is also estimated to be somewhere north of 200M.
The world is about to not be able to meet all oil demand for any price.
Comment by klaff 22 hours ago
Comment by IAmBroom 20 hours ago
Comment by consumer451 18 hours ago
I often wonder about the world we would live in if the Brooks Brothers Riot had not succeeded. That appears to have been the turning point for the fall of the USA, and even more sadly, humanity.
Comment by Havoc 19 hours ago
Which if correct is a crazy display of flexibility in the economy
[9%] https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-chinas-co2-emissions-fa...
Comment by mmooss 22 hours ago
Comment by ericmay 23 hours ago
Comment by marcyb5st 22 hours ago
Says you.
All other nuclear nations behave (even Pakistan and India, which are at each other throat all the time). What makes you think that Iran won't? It will also have Russia and China keep a lid on them, same as North Korea. And I don't buy the "Iran is different" gospel. North Korea and China have completely different mindsets than the western world and still play ball.
Additionally, if Iran really is that adamant in getting nukes, I can see them asking some enriched material to Russia as a payment to the 100s if not 1000s of drones they are giving them. They share a "land" border through the Caspian sea and smuggling a few 10s of kilos of enriched material would be relatively easy.
Finally, it is not a good proposition if the hypotethical benefits will be reaped by US/Israel while the suffering is globally spread.
Comment by boplicity 22 hours ago
Russia, China, the U.S., North Korea, Israel. These are all countries that absolutely do not behave. Each commits atrocities on a regular basis. Them having nukes makes accountability much more difficult.
Just to be clear: the current situation is a huge mess caused by one deranged leader.
Comment by mikem170 21 hours ago
Agreed. The situation is worse than before the U.S. attack.
Iran has proven they can control the straight, threatening the world's energy supply. This is a more powerful weapon than a nuke (which multiple agencies, including U.S. intel, said they didn't have when this all started). New leadership in Iran is more galvanized against the U.S. than ever.
The U.S. already lost this war. Iran is dictating terms. Allies in the region have seen that the U.S. cannot protect them, and are making other accomodations, reducing U.S. influence in the region and beyond.
Comment by LorenPechtel 19 hours ago
Everyone else realized that the world wasn't ready for anything but appeasement, our idiot didn't understand and pushed it into open conflict. Didn't change the basic situation, though.
Comment by ahartmetz 18 hours ago
Comment by Sabinus 13 hours ago
Comment by oblio 12 hours ago
Turns out the last 6 or US presidents were presented the same stupid pitch and guess who finally fell for it...
Comment by chasd00 20 hours ago
literally no part of this sentence is accurate.
Comment by mikem170 15 hours ago
Let me break it down some for you, and anyone else who may be interested:
1) Iran is dictating terms
Look how often Trump has changed his story on how long the war will last [0]:
> March 2, We will easily prevail. We're already substantially ahead of our time projections
> March 9, We're ahead of our initial timeline by a lot. I would say that we probably would not have thought after a month we'd be here
> March 17, We'll be leaving in pretty much the very near future
> March 31, I think two or three weeks
> April 1, I'm pleased to say that these core strategic objectives are nearing completion
> June 11, We just made a great settlement of the war with Iran
> Aug. 6, I think it's going to end pretty soon
Now he's sayign the war will be over right after the midterms [1].
Then there's all the times he said the straight was open, when Iran still was able to strike ships trying to transit.
Does that sound like someone who is in control of events? I've never heard a U.S. president who was wrong so many times.
2) Allies in the region have seen that the U.S. cannot protect them
> During the conflict, Iran reportedly carried out attacks or hostile actions against multiple countries and targets across the region, including Israel, Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman—where specific incidents involved ports and ships—Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iraq, Turkey, the British overseas territory of Akrotiri and Dhekelia, and the West Bank. Additional alleged activity was reported in Azerbaijan, while maritime targets included vessels of the United States Navy and Thai-flagged ships operating in the region. [2]
The above page includes a detailed list of all of the above attacks [3] and caulaties [4]. More ally citizens have been killed than U.S. military personel.
Trump even threatened to bomb an ally at one point:
> President Donald Trump has threatened to bomb Oman - a US ally - if it "gets in the way" of his administration's own talks with Iran, Fox News reports. [5]
And now the war is expanding, with the Saudis, a U.S. ally, being attacked:
> Yemen's Tehran-backed Houthis attacked four cities in the south of U.S. ally Saudi Arabia on Tuesday, wounding more than 70 people and setting oil installations ablaze. [6]
The Saudis and even some of our European allies are restricting U.S. air traffic [7]
3) and are making other accomodations
Regional powers are making alliances amongst themselves, alliances that do not include the Unites States:
> The Mecca Joint Defence Agreement, formally the Mecca Defence Alliance, is a defence pact between Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey signed into force on 7 August 2026 [8]
4)reducing U.S. influence in the region and beyond
China is using this as an opportunity to increase their influence in the region:
> Iran expresses willingness to continue diplomatic negotiations but vows to defend its sovereignty firmly, appreciating China's role in regional peace and seeking deeper cooperation with China. [9]
The U.S. has shown itself as incapable of securing shipping in this straight, and, by implication, other strategic straights. Countries have seen how having U.S. bases in their territories become a liability, drawing enemy fire, enemy fire that the U.S. is not able to intercept. This will echo for a loong time.
A large part of U.S. influence, and related military and economic power, was build-up over 80 years. Eighty Years of alliances and goodwill. And all that is very much in decline.
[0] https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2026/08/28/donal...
[1] https://www.politico.com/news/2026/09/09/trump-iran-war-end-...
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_during_the_202...
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_during_the_202...
[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_during_the_202...
[5] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy5dzk0ryzdo
[6] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2026/09/08/iran-cr...
[7] https://saudipress.com/saudi-arabia-bars-u-s-bases-and-airsp...][https://cde.news/italy-denies-sigonella-use-to-u-s-war-fligh...][https://www.wionews.com/world/uk-refuses-us-request-to-use-r...
[8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecca_Joint_Defence_Agreement
[9] https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/china-actively-c...
Comment by ericmay 21 hours ago
Sorry that's just dead wrong. This doesn't happen in a vacuum. I mean you could simply add Netanyahu and make your statement incorrect here. Nevermind all the other actors, Iran's deranged death cult, and more.
Comment by pasquinelli 21 hours ago
as for iran, they've been the picture of restraint since trump's first term.
Comment by LorenPechtel 19 hours ago
Comment by rayiner 21 hours ago
They tried to assassinate Trump, before he did any of this!
Comment by pasquinelli 21 hours ago
Comment by rayiner 20 hours ago
I'm going to believe Biden's DOJ over Iran...
Comment by andriy_koval 22 hours ago
Iran is way more aggressive in spreading influence in region (hoothis, hezbollah, hamas, Syria, Iraq, denying Israel existence).
Comment by nish__ 21 hours ago
Comment by andriy_koval 21 hours ago
Comment by DaveFr 20 hours ago
Comment by 737min 20 hours ago
Comment by IAmBroom 20 hours ago
Comment by 737min 19 hours ago
https://americandreaming.substack.com/p/wikipedias-islamist-...
Comment by LorenPechtel 18 hours ago
Comment by andriy_koval 19 hours ago
Comment by ericmay 22 hours ago
I'm not a nuclear weapons expert but from what I understand the United States and others are pretty easily able to identify where enriched material comes from. Also we probably have eyes on the material in general and can see where it is being moved. It has to be stored in places, put into a missile, &c.
But if your argument were to be taken to be correct you're also highlighting the problem with the JCPOA. Well, one of them at least.
Comment by LtWorf 22 hours ago
Maybe, if you let them inspect the material…
Comment by ericmay 22 hours ago
But what I meant was that if a weapon was used we'd be able to identify the signature of the material used and pinpoint the exact location on earth that it came from. In other words, if Russia "easily" (again that's an another feather in the cap agains the JCPOA) sent material to Iran and they used it and built a bomb and used it we'd know it came from a Russian mine. Of course they could maybe steal material from somewhere else and then Russia could transport that but hey, look where we're at. We've got Russia who invaded Ukraine supplying nuclear material to Iran to build a bomb. Maybe we shouldn't be on team Russia/Iran yea?
Comment by autoexec 21 hours ago
That isn't what the International Atomic Energy Agency said https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/iaea-...
At least before Trump started playing games Iran was in compliance
Comment by ericmay 19 hours ago
But the Iranians aren't stupid, they just moved the research to "military sites" and then denied access. Sometimes I think the UN and some of these agencies are run by people who grew up in very manicured gardens with their fancy law degrees and filet mignon and can't use their imagination to understand how someone might deceive them lol.
But this still begs the question - why do we need to have some sort of deal in the first place? Why does Iran of all countries need to have this special treatment where they threaten to build nuclear weapons unless we all do or give them something. Other countries don't do that.
Comment by autoexec 18 hours ago
Iran signed the Non-Proliferation Treaty ages ago which put certain limits on what they could do. Other countries had growing concerns that Iran wasn't living up to that treaty, and those violations (plus some other stuff) resulted in a bunch of sanctions being placed on Iran.
Eventually Iran got a president who requested an international agreement that would ease both the sanctions Iran was under and the fears other countries had over their nuclear program. After lots and lots of negotiations they settled on the Joint Plan of Action which did a pretty good job.
I don't think Iran was being treated as all that special here and we'd see similar events play out if any country under the NPT started building up its nuclear program, especially if other countries thought that country was unstable/terroristy enough that the idea of them having a bunch of nukes was extra scary AND they also felt an agreement could be reached that would help make them less frightened.
Comment by ericmay 18 hours ago
Comment by autoexec 17 hours ago
The new agreement itself was kind of impressive in some ways. It's really long. There's lots of special provisions for making sure Iran does what they're supposed to do and detailing what would happen if they don't because they had a sketchy history, but otherwise it just meant that Iran followed rules just like other countries do and they weren't punished like other rule following countries weren't. It took a new agreement to get there, but things were basically back to normal
Comment by ericmay 17 hours ago
Why not just not have a treaty and they just follow the rules? I think you're jumping through some hoops here to justify the need for the JCPOA when at the end of the day Iran needs to simply acquiesce to the international community and no longer pursue nuclear weapons. Of course they also need to stop murdering people throughout the region too. Nuclear disarmament is just one step.
Iran themselves said they enriched uranium up to 40%-60%. The US offered "free nuclear fuel forever" to get them to stop and they also refused. I can find sources for you if you'd like but both of these were widely reported.
Comment by autoexec 16 hours ago
First, keep in mind that Iran is very different today from when they signed that treaty. It was signed before the Iranian Revolution. A lot happened between the signing and when Iran approached the international community. By comparison, North Korea violated the Non-Proliferation Treaty too, and sanctions were put them as well, but they never came back to the table to reach a new agreement with the rest of the world (although they do have some kind of deal with russia I think)
Iran also didn't even want to "just keep following the rules". They accepted extra rules because at that point other countries didn't trust them. We don't monitor other countries like we did with Iran under the JCPOA. Iran wasn't demanding that we give them a bunch of free stuff either. They wanted sanctions lifted, but not even all the sanctions Iran wanted lifted were agreed to.
Other countries don't get to just tell other countries what to do. All we can do is encourage them to do the things we want by making offers or punish them for not doing what we want through things like sanctions. I mean, technically we can also use the CIA to interfere in their government but we already did that in Iran and it hasn't worked out so well for anybody.
Iran had reached a pretty good agreement with the world on the future of their nuclear program. It wasn't perfect for anybody, it was a compromise after all, but Iran followed the new agreement. Then Trump threw it all away because he was convinced that he could make a "better deal" and that was when the US offered Iran weird things like "free nuclear fuel" as part of Trump's new deal. I guess Iran just felt that Trump's deal was garbage even with the random extras Trump tried to use to entice them to go along with it. Frankly, considering how often Trump cheats people, I wouldn't agree to a deal with him either.
Comment by ericmay 14 hours ago
I don’t want to go in circles here so I’ll pull this piece out because it’s the crux of the issue. Iran should not pursue the development of nuclear weapons. There is no need for a treaty or special treatment. They should simply not do it. That’s it. We don’t need to have a pretty good agreement. They just don’t do the action. The world distrusts them because they’re earned that distrust.
Comment by rayiner 21 hours ago
Because Iran's leadership is actually crazy.
Comment by corford 21 hours ago
Comment by rayiner 20 hours ago
Comment by goatlover 18 hours ago
Comment by martythemaniak 21 hours ago
Comment by qlte 22 hours ago
> And I don't buy the "Iran is different" gospel.
It's funny reading literature from the mega hawks in US politics during the Cold War.Descriptions of the Soviet leadership basically word for word use the same apocalyptic terms used for the ayatollahs/IRGC by current neocons about Iran. Just swap in "Islamist" for "Communist" as the current ideology that makes any kind of realpolitik impossible.
"These leaders aren't rational like previous adversaries, they don't fear annihilation, in fact they want catastrophe to prove their own fatalist belief system. There can be no negotiation with this sort of enemy, their singular goal is our destruction even at the cost of their own lives."
It's always different this time, and all assumptions about self-serving human nature need to be thrown out the window. Anyone who thinks force isn't the only solution is a naively deluded suicidal peacenik. All out war right now on our terms is the only rational way to avoid world destruction.
Comment by stickfigure 21 hours ago
Iran already misbehaves, exporting violence to the entire region. How do you think they are going to act when they have nuclear weapons?
Comment by goatlover 18 hours ago
Comment by LorenPechtel 17 hours ago
(In other words, just because we haven't blown ourselves up yet doesn't mean it's safe to have nukes in the hands of lunatics.)
Comment by eklavya 20 hours ago
Comment by LorenPechtel 19 hours ago
Comment by throwitaway222 22 hours ago
Comment by mitxela 22 hours ago
Comment by MSFT_Edging 22 hours ago
Actions have consequences. The continual attack on the sovereignty of countries around the world has made nuclear weapons one of the few ways to avoid being a client state of the US at the expense of your own population. Iran has figured out another method it seems.
This is blowback. The simple lesson that we refuse to learn.
Comment by ericmay 22 hours ago
Name the other countries pursuing a nuclear weapon. Maybe you are drumming up a fear that nobody else really has.
Comment by mmooss 22 hours ago
- North Korea
- Israel
- India
- Pakistan
All retain their sovereignty, though I can't prove any causal effect and certainly nuclear weapons isn't the only cause.Others have pursued them, includng Libya, South Africa, etc. Libya agreed to surrender their program, and then their government was deposed with Western help. Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons (left over from being occupied by the USSR) in exchange for peace from Russia, and you can see what happened. That doesn't encourage the next person to give up theirs.
Comment by ericmay 22 hours ago
So when you sort of set aside countries from prior to, idk, 1980s ish you don't really have anyone at least publicly (to your point) pursuing nuclear weapons. However it's not just the enrichment of uranium which is tightly controlled it's also the missile technology to deliver the weapons. Keeping a nuclear program secret these days I think is quite a bit more difficult than in the past.
So when you look around today you've got Iran that we know of pursuing a nuclear program. I'm not sure anyone else is by virtue of how difficult (I think?) it would be to do so undetected. Though there are countries (Japan and Korea come to mind) who we think have the ability to scale up a program very quickly.
Comment by drTobiasFunke 20 hours ago
Japan and South Korea literally have 100s of American military bases on their territory. You really think they are sovereign nations who can pursue an independent nuclear program?
Comment by ericmay 19 hours ago
Yes? Are you really sitting here telling South Korea, Japan, Germany, and more that they’re not sovereign nations because they choose to have American military bases on their home soil?
> India and Pakistan were late 90s.
Source please
Comment by mmooss 19 hours ago
India worked on them on and off for decades and first tested one in 1998, and IIRC Pakistan matched them soon after.
North Korea was in the 2000s.
> So when you sort of set aside countries from prior to, idk, 1980s ish you don't really have anyone at least publicly (to your point) pursuing nuclear weapons.
I'm not going through the comment correcting all of it.
Comment by ericmay 18 hours ago
Yea, why bother when you're peddling misinformation?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smiling_Buddha
> North Korea was in the 2000s.
Yes supported by Russia and China they got the keys they needed for the delivery mechanism (ballistic missiles). But the problem with North Korea is they threatened to kill hundreds of thousands of people in South Korea if anyone stopped them from building their bomb. South Korea didn't want that to happen and China would have fought against American forces had we tried anything in North Korea. Not much we can do.
Comment by mmooss 18 hours ago
For anyone unfamiliar with the topic, I encourage them to lookup when India, Pakistan, and North Korea developed nuclear weapons - you will find the answers in an instant.
Comment by ericmay 18 hours ago
Yes, like India successfully tested their first nuclear weapon in 1974, not 1998 like you are asserting.
Comment by riffraff 22 hours ago
Comment by nwellnhof 22 hours ago
Ukraine never had nuclear weapons. Russia is the sole legal successor of the USSR and these were all Russian nukes on Ukrainian territory.
> in exchange for peace from Russia
There isn't a single mention of nuclear weapons in the Budapest Memorandum.
Comment by badc0ffee 21 hours ago
Structuring the breakup so that the nukes are Russia's is not really different than Ukraine giving up the nukes on its territory.
Where did they draw the line? Obviously not all USSR assets are now Russian assets, as Ukraine still has (or had) its own stockpile of Soviet era weapons, and other things like Soviet era airfields.
Comment by qlte 21 hours ago
Comment by chokolad 18 hours ago
What split of Soviet debt obligations? Russia took over all Soviet foreign debt, as well as all the foreign assets
Comment by ericmay 21 hours ago
Comment by m4rtink 18 hours ago
Comment by ericmay 17 hours ago
Comment by saxonww 21 hours ago
https://web.archive.org/web/20170312052208/http://www.cfr.or...
Points 4 and 5 mention and are about use of nuclear weapons.
I think the memorandum was intended to be a security guarantee to Ukraine after they (and Belarus, and Kazakhstan) joined the NPT and transferred formerly-Soviet nuclear weapons to the Russian Federation. I don't know why anyone would suggest otherwise.
Comment by goatlover 18 hours ago
Comment by drTobiasFunke 22 hours ago
Comment by ericmay 18 hours ago
Comment by rconti 22 hours ago
Comment by ericmay 22 hours ago
Separately that doesn't resolve the other issues, funding militant groups, &c.
Comment by SimianSci 22 hours ago
What aside from their total annihilation or subjugation would ever convince you of your (Israel's) safety?
Comment by ericmay 22 hours ago
Comment by dalyons 22 hours ago
Comment by ericmay 22 hours ago
Comment by vjvjvjvjghv 22 hours ago
Comment by ericmay 18 hours ago
You sound gleeful about the idea of nuclear proliferation. It's unfortunate that so many have stopped caring about the institutions and liberal world order we created. Oh well.
If/once Iran gets one we'll give one to Saudi Arabia at least and make sure Israel's program is well supported. Then we can make sure Germany has them and Poland too if they want them. Korea and Japan will also get the green light. Anyone who opposes China/Russia will can get access to then and we can add a dozen or so countries to the nuclear armed states list. Why not?
Comment by m4rtink 17 hours ago
Comment by vjvjvjvjghv 15 hours ago
Re: nuclear weapons. If the US gives up the role of protecting other friendly nations and NATO isn't viewed as reliable anymore, it makes sense to develop nuclear weapons. As a German I am starting to wonder if we should develop our own just in case Putin gets some ideas. And I am sure Japan and South Korea are having similar thoughts.
Comment by ericmay 14 hours ago
Part of that preservation means a safe and stable Middle East and more countries not acquiring nuclear weapons.
You simply cannot “negotiate” with Iran here. It’s no different than when Europeans (rightfully in my view) say there’s no negotiating with Putin and then go and complain about the US sending delegates to Russia trying to figure something out no matter how half-brained the Trump administration might be.
Comment by defrost 13 hours ago
Likely not any more, not since Trump tore up US participation in the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA).
One bad faith act destroyed concerted effort by multiple countries that would have seen greater Iranian integration into the world and the falling off of internal extreme influence.
Negotiation demonstrably worked, in the past, trust was destroyed .. who did that?
Comment by ericmay 10 minutes ago
Are those the actions of a country that is really following the JCPOA? This is what a "negotiation" got us. The fact that Trump tore up the JCPOA isn't relevant because they shouldn't need to have an agreement to not build nuclear weapons in the first place! Is Vietnam or Brazil funding militias and loading up on military hardware and threatening to build a nuclear weapon unless they get some sort of special agreement to not do it?
It wasn't "one bad faith act" there never needed to be an act in the first place and you're ignoring all of Iran's actions that themselves were bad faith!
Comment by etchalon 21 hours ago
So apparently, we've yet to do anything to prevent them from doing it.
We've just killed children.
Comment by ericmay 21 hours ago
They killed more than 30,000 of their own people including children and support terrorist regimes in multiple countries that also kill children.
> There's zero evidence its less possible
On the other hand we bombed the nuclear facilities so what increase in nuclear weapons capability do they have that you are thinking about here? If there's something that has changed I'd be curious to read about it or your thoughts since that would change my opinion.
Comment by etchalon 21 hours ago
The evidence we bombed their nuclear facilities is essentially this administration telling us we bombed their nuclear facilities.
This administration does not have a track record of providing the public with honest assessments of their success.
If we've successfully stopped them from developing a nuclear weapon, which was stated as the point of our preemptive aggression, I'd need a very good reason why we continue to spend billions attacking them.
Comment by ericmay 19 hours ago
No my take is we do it by accident and they do it on purpose and at a much larger scale and instead of pearl clutching about the US doing it on accident you should be pearl clutching about Iran doing it. I didn’t bring it up, but anytime someone brings up this whole “US killed kids” I’m happy to remind everyone that Iran is far worse.
> The evidence we bombed their nuclear facilities is essentially this administration telling us we bombed their nuclear facilities.
So? Do you not believe anything anyone says unless you see it for yourself?
> If we've successfully stopped them from developing a nuclear weapon, which was stated as the point of our preemptive aggression, I'd need a very good reason why we continue to spend billions attacking them.
Stopping the development of a nuclear weapon is an important goal but not the only one. We keep defending ourselves because they keep doing things like launching rockets at Kuwait, or shooting at American ships, or supporting those committing genocide or murder in Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon, Palestine, and Yemen.
There is a very simple solution. Iran stops funding these groups, stops murdering their own people, stop launching rockets, and stops trying to build nuclear weapons. Once they do that and behave responsibility like just about every other country on the planet there aren’t any problems.
Why is it that they can’t just stop doing these things?
Comment by etchalon 19 hours ago
"Hey, we're not as bad a literal terrorist regime!" is not a metric by which I think we should measure our own country.
I'd believe we'd actually accomplished our goal of stopping their nuclear program if this specific administration hadn't told us, before this attack, we had successfully stopped their nuclear program with a previous attack. Once you've lied to me once, my standard of evidence is a great deal higher than "trust us, bro." and this administration has already shown incompetence at judging the effectiveness of their attacks (or shown a willingness to lie to us about it).
The entire problem with this strategy, from day one, was the completely ahistorical belief that we could punish a country into behaving exactly as we want, in a way that specifically aligns with our interests.
Bullying nations has a tendency to harden them against cooperation and negotiation, as we've seen with Iran.
Comment by ericmay 19 hours ago
Ok and they did theirs with malicious and clear purpose. Yikes!
> This wasn't the unfortunate result of a necessary attack on a valid target. This was the result of stupidity.
No. Iran and their militant proxies know that we don't attack civilian targets on purpose. That's why they set up facilities, military equipment, or hide combatants behind children or in hospitals and such because they know we don't want to kill innocent people. Hamas or Iran will tell you this as part of their doctrine.
So think about it. You've got the US and allies, Hamas, Hezbollah or whatever, Iran, and they're all saying "The US and western allies don't intentionally kill innocent people" and then there's you who is like sitting here complaining about it and now it's just "incompetence". Give me a break.
> "Hey, we're not as bad a literal terrorist regime!" is not a metric by which I think we should measure our own country.
Nobody is using that metric except you. The US admitted the mistake and apologized at a minimum. I believe there was some talk of compensation though I'm not sure where that has landed. Probably tough to do because the Iranian regime would steal any money we gave to the families.
But hey I do agree with you, Iran's government is a terrorist regime.
> Bullying nations has a tendency to harden them against cooperation and negotiation, as we've seen with Iran.
Well sure but they were never cooperating anyway. If they were, they wouldn't have been taking the actions they've been taking. What does cooperation look like? It looks like not murdering tens of thousands of your own people, it looks like not pursuing nuclear weapons, it looks like not funding militant groups who murder innocent people throughout the region, and it looks like not building up gigantic stockpiles of missiles and drones and then launching them at every country around you.
Iran is the only country doing this stuff. Why aren't they cooperating with the rest of the world peacefully?
Comment by etchalon 18 hours ago
This has been heavily reported on and no counter-story has been proffered.
You introduced a whataboutalism. I pointed out whataboutalisms are ridiculous when it comes to dead children.
The frustrating part of all of this is we had a working agreement with Iran, with numerous mechanisms to ensure compliance, that was torn up because this administration, without any offered evidence, said Iran wasn't in compliance. And this was despite multiple international partners disagreeing and saying they were absolutely complying.
Comment by ericmay 18 hours ago
Sure, but you should be talking Iran killing people since they killed many more and did so on purpose instead of on accident. You keep using the term incompetence because you have an axe to grind. Actions matter but intentions get a say too.
> You introduced a whataboutalism.
Well I'm certainly not going to, where I see it happen, let people just dance around talking about US "incompetence" and ignoring Iranian purposeful murder as they try to denigrate my country for their own political aims. These people shouldn't be your political football and you should be more focused on Iranian action.
> The frustrating part of all of this is we had a working agreement with Iran
Why do they need a special snowflake agreement else they build nuclear weapons? Weren't they signatories to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation treaty? Should other countries start building nuclear weapons so they can get some sort of concession from the United States? Why does the US have to give these concessions and not the entire world since it's in everyone's interest that we don't have every country on the planet building nuclear fucking bombs and maybe using them? Did we forget we don't want that or something?
Comment by etchalon 17 hours ago
I have no control of, or say, in how Iran operates.
I am a US Citizen who votes in the US and who is concerned with the actions my government takes on my behalf.
If Iran shouldn't "need an agreement" not to build nuclear weapons, what exactly is our current aggression seeking to accomplish? How does it end? How do we know its over?
When there is no longer a single person in Iran?
Comment by ericmay 17 hours ago
I didn't say you did. I'm just focused on their wrongdoings and I'm not interested in some accident that the US was involved in. We accidentally blew something up? Dang that sucks. Let's talk about how awful Iran is instead and focus on that because that's what matters.
> I have no control of, or say, in how Iran operates.
What does that matter? You also have no control or say of how Israel operates. Therefore you can't criticize them or be concerned with their actions? You also have no say in Ukraine or Russia.
> If Iran shouldn't "need an agreement" not to build nuclear weapons, what exactly is our current aggression seeking to accomplish?
Sorry I'm not following. They shouldn't need an agreement to behave like the rest of the signatories to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation treaty, yet they want an agreement special treatment, and still develop nuclear weapons in secret. Partly what our defensive operations are seeking to accomplish is to stop them from building nuclear weapons because... they're trying to build them, aren't honoring the NNPT, are murdering their own people, and murdering other people throughout the Middle East. Like why are you so confused about this? Are you unaware of these activities or something?
How about this, can you walk me through what your understanding of Iranian funded militias in Iraq, Yemen, Syria, and Lebanon is? Just at a high level how do you understand those various situations?
> How does it end? How do we know it's over?
Who knows?
> When there is no longer a single person in Iran?
No that doesn't make any sense.
Comment by etchalon 14 hours ago
Our military murdered 170 children due to incompetence.
I am aware of Iran's activities. Everyone is. The regime is murderous, and hostile to our allies in the region.
And absolutely nothing we are doing, right now, has changed or will change that.
Comment by ericmay 14 hours ago
You’re calling it incompetence because you have an axe to grind. The US military simply does not intentionally murder children. Everybody knows that including Iran! That’s why these guys put their military equipment next to civilian infrastructure. Why is that I’m telling you this, the military tells you this, European militaries would tell you this, Iran tells you this, and yet you alone are insistent that it is incompetence and not an accident?
> I am aware of Iran's activities. Everyone is. The regime is murderous, and hostile to our allies in the region.
Good let’s focus the conversation there since that’s what is important.
> And absolutely nothing we are doing, right now, has changed or will change that.
False
Comment by etchalon 13 hours ago
Comment by mikem170 21 hours ago
Source?
Comment by ericmay 19 hours ago
Comment by mikem170 17 hours ago
You mentioned military sites... I wondered if the IAEA ever requested access to military sites? They were entitled to do so, under the JCPOA. I couldn't find anything in a quick search I just did.
In your response above, you seem to imply that the Iranians may have already sneaked nuclear matarial to military sites. But the The IAEA found no evidence of that, at least as of 2025, well after the treaty, as per this summary report:
> Iran held enriched uranium at all three main nuclear sites: Natanz, Fordow, and Esfahan. There are no indications that Iran moved stocks outside of these three sites [2]
Once again, do you have sources for what you are saying, that the Iranians weren't following the treaty while it was in effect, or that there were military sites where they were hiding nuclear research? I'm not finding any.
Or is this just an opinion, or a guess? I would say that one must be careful, those who profit in some way from war always exaggerate the enemy.
[0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/19/iran-nuclear-d...
[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/17/us/politics/trump-iran-nu...
[2] https://isis-online.org/isis-reports/analysis-of-iaea-iran-v...
Comment by ericmay 16 hours ago
The other problem of course if the fundamental "need" to have a JCPOA in the first place. Iran can just stop trying to build nuclear weapons and then we don't need these kinds of agreements.
They also enriched uranium: "Iran has 440.9 kilograms (972 pounds) of uranium that is enriched up to 60% purity, a short, technical step from weapons-grade levels of 90%, according to the International Atomic Energy Agency, the U.N.'s nuclear watchdog agency." [1]
why were they even doing that? When I read things like that it's like who even cares if they were supposedly following the JCPOA? I'm not trying to change the subject or move the goalposts, but just pointing out how it's interesting that they have all this enriched material. Why do they even have it? Someone said they were following the agreement, why do they need to have this agreement to not enrich uranium? Just don't do it?
[1] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/securing-irans-enriched-u...
Comment by mikem170 14 hours ago
Apparently the Iranians started enriching to that 60% level, and self reporting, in 2021, as leverage in the unsuccessful negotions to bring the JCPOA back into effect to get sanctions dropped.
International politics is what it is - power and self interest. There are those who don't want Iran to have a nuke. Iran has its reasons for wanting that capability. Throw in the crusades and ongoing holy wars, colonialism, oil, authoritarian regimes, propaganda, alliances, greed, etc - it's no wonder this is still a problem. One of many problems in that part of the world.
Ironic that the U.S. got the iranian nucear program started, eh? [1]
[0] https://nuclearwatch.net/2025-09-11/enrichment-under-the-npt...
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_program_of_Iran#Origin...
Comment by ericmay 14 hours ago
Are you serious lol. Ok let’s go back to the Persians invading the Greeks!
Comment by mikem170 12 hours ago
You don't think religion still motivates people? There have been Sunni vs Shia and Christian vs Muslim conflicts for about a thousand years, more on than off. Israel vs Palestine more recently, fighting over ancient holy sites. So much back and forth - the Muslim conquest, the crusades, the Ottomans, Napolean, the Shah of Iran, 9/11, etc.
Are you saying that those in the Middle East don't know the history of all that, or don't notice that they have been imposed upon lately by foreign powers?
Are you saying that there's not a large loud group of people in the U.S. who have been saying that Islam is evil? They aren't like us. They want to kill us all. They'll never stop. Etc. They're going to nuke Boston if we don't attack. I know a lot of religious people looking at current events as end-of-times bliblical - New Jerusalem, second coming, etc. These people have been very politically influental. Even now Vance is very publically calling a muslim senate candidate evil.
Those in power use religion to radicalize people. Are you saying this isn't happening and hasn't been happening for hundreds of years?
I'm into history, so maybe I'm coming from a different angle.
You've posted quite a bit in this thread and repeated a number of things that appear to be factually incorrect. Are you sure that you are well informed and not making biased assumptions?
Comment by mmooss 22 hours ago
When are you talking about and what is that based on? It was the US that withdrew; the other countries continued. US intelligence concluded that Iran had no nuclear weapons program (or maybe, no active one; I don't recall).
> you'd also have to say you 100% trust American intelligence to verify
Nope, the plan was for the IEA to do their thing with on-the-ground inspectors, sensors, etc. As just one example, nuclear materials leak radiation and they can find indications of it in air, soil, etc., around faciltiies. Edit: Also, many other countries were involved and looking closely, including European powers and Israel.
Comment by ericmay 18 hours ago
They'd just move the research to clandestine or military facilities. They're not stupid. Countries like Iran know how to play these games and they use our own legal mechanisms against us all the time.
Separately we shouldn't have to have a JCPOA in the first place, they can just not pursue nuclear weapons like almost every other country on the planet.
Comment by mmooss 18 hours ago
> we shouldn't have to have a JCPOA in the first place, they can just not pursue nuclear weapons like almost every other country on the planet.
Other countries do pursue and have nuclear weapons. Iran has not yet created a full nuclear weapons program - or hadn't before the current war.
Iran, being under constant threat from the US and Israel, with open calls to attack Iran for decades; seeing two neighbors recently deposed by the US (Iraq and Afghanistan); and having had their own government deposed and replaced by a US-friendly one (Mosaddegh in 1953); under constant threat from neighbors and the region (Iraq invaded in the 1980s, Saudi Arabia and other Sunni states are open enemies, Israel of course); may believe that they need nuclear weapons to survive.
Is there another country in a similar position, with the resources to develop nuclear weapons, that doesn't have them? North Korea and Israel both made that choice in similar circumstances.
The US 'nuclear umbrella' covers its allies around the world, a very effective non-proliferation tool. Otherwise, I imagine South Korea, Japan, many NATO countries would build them - there is already discussion of it in the former two countries.
Comment by ericmay 18 hours ago
Don't care then. The premise of having to have the agreement in the first place is faulty, so arguments about who was following it and in what sneaky way are simply irrelevant.
> Other countries do pursue and have nuclear weapons.
So should more countries get them then? Are you against nuclear non-proliferation? If you want more countries to get them let's start with Israel and Saudi Arabia, then move to South Korea and Japan, and let's load them up in the Baltic states too so Russia doesn't think twice.
> Iran has not yet created a full nuclear weapons program -
Then what was the point of the JCPOA?
> or hadn't before the current war.
They hadn't as the war is going on either just to be clear. There seems to be this cargo culted comment that they're going to have one now. They won't. We will bomb it no matter what.
> Iran, being under constant threat from the US and Israel, with open calls to attack Iran for decades; seeing two neighbors recently deposed by the US (Iraq and Afghanistan); and having had their own government deposed and replaced by a US-friendly one (Mosaddegh in 1953); under constant threat from neighbors and the region (Iraq invaded in the 1980s, Saudi Arabia and other Sunni states are open enemies, Israel of course); may believe that they need nuclear weapons to survive.
Right, everyone is bad here but poor lil ole' Iran. The US was in Afghanistan after Bin Laden. It was in Iraq after Saddam. The whole world, despite Iranian delusions of grandeur, doesn't revolve around them. Other countries are also under constant threat from Iran (US, Israel, Gulf States, more) as they fund militants, murder people, load up on missiles and drones and fire them indiscriminately, and try to build nuclear bombs.
Comment by theplumber 22 hours ago
Comment by ericmay 22 hours ago
This is the flaw in your thinking. It won't be the US who alone decides to live with high oil prices, it'll be everyone.
Vague promises of "pushing for renewables" is a gross mischaracterization and misunderstanding of the importance of oil and gas to the global economy. Note, I'm not anti-renewable or whatever, but chalking this up to a "US problem" is willfully ignorant.
Comment by squidbeak 22 hours ago
Comment by globalnode 22 hours ago
Comment by ericmay 22 hours ago
Comment by theplumber 19 hours ago
Comment by oblio 11 hours ago
Comment by anonymousDan 21 hours ago
Comment by bad_haircut72 21 hours ago
Comment by LtWorf 22 hours ago
Comment by ericmay 19 hours ago
Comment by m4rtink 17 hours ago
Comment by ericmay 16 hours ago
Comment by theplumber 14 hours ago
We don’t care if Trump is doing a deal with criminals to steal oil from Venezuela either so why should the world be so eager to help him steal oil from Iran as well?(and perhaps do a deal with the meanest of them all)
Comment by ericmay 14 hours ago
> We don’t care if Trump is doing a deal with criminals to steal oil from Venezuela either so why should the world be so eager to help him steal oil from Iran as well?(and perhaps do a deal with the meanest of them all)
Not stealing oil. Let’s set that aside.
The reason nobody cares is because Maduro was a criminal and was responsible for economic devastation in Venezuela resulting in 1/3rd of the country fleeing!
Comment by theplumber 4 hours ago
Comment by LtWorf 13 hours ago
And now it's even worse but USA gets free oil so it's all fine!
Comment by rdm_blackhole 22 hours ago
The two major economies in the EU (France and Germany) are both facing severe recessions and a parliamentary deadlock + soon to be elections would will be most certainly won by Putin's allies and/or radical communists.
All of this to say I would not hold my breath on Europe doing much at all in the coming months/years.
Comment by mitxela 22 hours ago
Comment by nemomarx 21 hours ago
Comment by rdm_blackhole 21 hours ago
I was talking about France Unbowed (LFI) in France which is radical left parti (and allies of the French communists parti) that wants to burn the debt owned by the French state (their own words not mine) and could be in the second round of the French election vs the National Rally (far right).
Both the National Rally and France Unbowed are in favor of stopping Ukrainian foreign aid.
Comment by bluGill 22 hours ago
Everybody else (with sea access) has a coast guard, and maybe a few ships for show. China is making enough ships that in a decade they could be there, but it isn't clear they want to go there - they don't see to be building the world supply line needed (but around China they do have that power already).
That is if you don't like the current situation with the US deciding the rules of the sea, then you need to pay for your own navy.
Comment by KumaBear 22 hours ago
Comment by ericmay 22 hours ago
Comment by jrajav 22 hours ago
China is essentially the only actor in the market that is able to weather this conflict in marathon fashion.
Comment by ericmay 22 hours ago
They have their own advantages and strategies to deal with these things, but this idea that China just like sits around and "weathers the conflict" unscathed is just incorrect.
Comment by throwaway473825 20 hours ago
If global oil and gas prices rise, Chinese electricity and transport prices are largely unaffected, unlike the rest of the world. Even the US doesn't have that kind of resilience.
However, China is a net importer of oil and gas, while the US is a net exporter, so when it comes to trade the US is the main beneficiary, although it mainly benefits one single sector.
Comment by ericmay 19 hours ago
This is simply inaccurate. I don't know why you or others keep repeating this. It's bizarre. How do you think China gets goods out of the country to other countries? Separately China is specifically dependent on oil and gas shipments from the Middle East. How these disruptions affect countries depends on a lot of different factors. This blasé assertion that China somehow isn't affected by oil and gas prices is not reflected in reality or China's own actions. Why do you think they're drawing on their strategic reserve?
Comment by ericd 22 hours ago
Comment by mitxela 22 hours ago
Comment by cdmckay 22 hours ago
I’m not sure the only country that has used nukes on people should be the one to decide that
Comment by TFNA 22 hours ago
Comment by vjvjvjvjghv 22 hours ago
Comment by timedude 22 hours ago
Comment by pphysch 22 hours ago
Comment by soperj 22 hours ago
For all those who are about to reply saying it was justified because it saved American lives, why didn't you use it Afghanistan or Iraq?
Comment by bluGill 22 hours ago
Judge the current US policy by the current US.
Comment by soperj 17 hours ago
There are roughly 12 million Americans over the age of 80.
Comment by bluGill 11 hours ago
Comment by Arodex 21 hours ago
Then it is obvious we need to preemptively nuke the USA right now.
Comment by Gibbon1 17 hours ago
Okinawa alone cost 12,000 US soldiers. With 100,000 to 150,000 civilian deaths.
Comment by swish-mish 22 hours ago
Comment by asah 17 hours ago
Iran has repeatedly called for "death to America," "death to Israel" and so on.
Israel's leaders do not generally call for the destruction of other countries.
Comment by Timon3 4 hours ago
Comment by AnthonyMouse 21 hours ago
Comment by pphysch 19 hours ago
It's hard to predict what a theocracy might do.
Comment by AnthonyMouse 19 hours ago
Comment by WarmWash 22 hours ago
Comment by mmooss 22 hours ago
One classic method is to try to tie it to scripture, but people behave like people regardless of their scriptures, and members of every religion has done plenty of horrible things in the name of their god. The Christian Gospels are about as pacifist as scripture gets and yet many horrible things have been done in Christianities name - often justified because the victims were non-Christian.
There is plenty of religious-sanctioned violence in the Old Testament, including in the Torah, and plenty of violence against non-Jews today - so much that it's a bit bizarre to overlook it.
Comment by WarmWash 22 hours ago
I mean, we have modern day Islamic societies that are still dragging out homosexuals and stoning them, and still putting women in bags as property.
If that was what I needed to defend with a straight face, I also would be pretty desperate to shift the focus back a thousand or so years.
Comment by kelipso 19 hours ago
Comment by p_j_w 22 hours ago
Comment by pphysch 22 hours ago
At what point does reality become more important than your favorite childhood stories?
Comment by lenerdenator 22 hours ago
Up until fairly recently, Israel was a stand-out in the region for actually having things like decently fair elections and a political class derived from a relatively wide sample of its populace. Other countries in the region were either Arab nationalist republics, Islamic republics, or authoritarian monarchies. While it was ethno-theocratic, it was one that seemed to balance religion with secular demands, and as it is, most countries around the world have at least some basis in ethnicity. The US is a notable exception for this, for what it's worth. This has begun to fade as a more conservative sector of Israeli society has begun carrying more political power, but it's not to the same extent as you find in other countries in the region.
Nuclear weapons are indeed bad and we used to try to negotiate ways between major powers to reduce their number. We don't do that anymore, for a variety of reasons. The more of them there are in different, independent hands, the more likely they are to be used. If they're used, there's a real chance that nuclear-armed powers make severe miscalculations about who is firing what at where. For example, a USAF radar operator watching an over-the-horizon system pointed eastward sees a large number of missiles being launched, and may assume that they're Russian missiles aimed at the US, when they are in fact Iranian missiles aimed at Israel. They might make a potentially species-ending mistake as a result.
The largest issue with Iran having nuclear weapons is that it almost certainly intends to use them against an already nuclear-armed power, Israel, in a way that really doesn't have any rational endgame. Iran is a Shia Islamic theocracy. Beyond the Western-ish influence that Israel brings to the region, there are serious theological implications from the existence of Israel. Islam has a core tenant that there is no higher power other than Allah and that Muhammad is his prophet. Allah is the same god that exists in Christianity and Judaism, and Muhammad is held as carrying on the thread of prophecy that began with the biblical Adam.
There's a lot in common in the three major Abrahamic faiths, and like all other faiths, people interpret it in different ways. The Iranian regime - who definitely does not represent all Muslims, let's make that clear right now - interprets it as the basis of their power. They are a group of clerics and scholars who govern a nation through interpretation and application of religious jurisprudence via one head cleric, the Ayatollah.
If you are a person who either rules a society based on any religious jurisprudence, or are working under that person - as all of the Iranian government does - you can't have too much tolerance for things that might undermine that religion. The Iranian theocracy's interpretation of the line of prophecy that Muhammad is a part of is that he is the "seal of the prophets", meaning that there will be no further revelations or corrections to the line of prophecy until the end-times. Muhammad is held up as having revealed corrections to the line of prophecy, meaning that while Judaism, Christianity, and other Abrahamic faiths are of the same prophecy, they ultimately got some things wrong.
Now let's get back to the existence of Israel. A short description of Israel in the context of what I've described is that you have a people who now control some of the Abrahamic faiths' most holy sites, and they're doing it based off of what is seen as the "wrong" prophecy.
If people who believe in the "wrong" prophecy are firmly in charge of the sites you consider holy, what does that say about your prophecy and your claim to power based on it? Sort of reduces its power, doesn't it? You can't have that. Something has to be done.
In the eyes of the Iranian theocracy, that "something" is funding, training, and commanding militia and military groups who are sympathetic to your understanding of prophecy and having them strike out at the theologically inconvenient people. Developing more powerful weapons to use while doing so is a natural part of this. What's more powerful than a nuclear weapon? Nothing. So you make that your ultimate goal. What they might do with it, who knows, but again, simply having more nuclear weapons in the hands of more independent actors raises the likelihood of their use with potentially catastrophic results.
The plight of the Palestinians just happens to be a convenient excuse for all of this. They're Arab and majority Sunni as opposed to the Persian and Shiite Iran. If there were a two-state solution as we spent most of the last 30 years working towards, it likely wouldn't satisfy the Iranians, which is why they don't recognize Israel at all instead of saying "we'd recognize you if you retreat to your pre-1967 borders and let the Palestinian Authority govern the West Bank and Gaza Strip."
Comment by anonymousDan 21 hours ago
Comment by lenerdenator 20 hours ago
That being said, if you're talking about the 1953 coup, ask the British about that. Also, it doesn't take away from the fact that the 1979 revolution didn't install any sort of representative government, either.
Comment by thriving_earthw 22 hours ago
Comment by ericmay 21 hours ago
Comment by thriving_earthw 16 hours ago
Comment by lenerdenator 21 hours ago
Comment by ericmay 22 hours ago
Comment by nemomarx 22 hours ago
At this point they'd be fools to not pursue getting one, and we killed everyone in a position of authority who was rational about it. Cats out of the bag, one more nuclear rogue state.
Comment by ericmay 22 hours ago
Maybe we should have brokered some kind of deal with Russia to prevent them from invading Ukraine. Do you trust American intelligence 100% to verify Iran is not building a nuclear bomb? And if they weren't, why also were they funding these militant groups? What's the point? It's Neo-colonialism in the Middle East.
> At this point they'd be fools to not pursue getting one, and we killed everyone in a position of authority who was rational about it.
The leadership wasn't really rational in your western sense. I'm not sure where you are coming up with that. If they were rational they wouldn't be murdering their own civilians, chanting death to Israel and death to America as a national past time (no sane nation does this, or if you want to argue they do then don't get mad when Americans are burning the Koran or whatever) and funding militants. You're trying to argue from a place that assumes your values about economics and prosperity and global human rights with an entity that does not care about those values.
If they were rational as you'd like them to be they'd just not do any of the things they've been doing. Why does Iran have to get special treatment to not build a nuclear weapon? Have you thought about that? Why do we have to pay them off? Why are they special snowflakes who get to hold the world hostage less they build nuclear bombs to threaten others?
> Cats out of the bag, one more nuclear rogue state.
That's the fault of the rest of the world then for failing to come together to stop the proliferation of nuclear weapons.
Comment by nemomarx 22 hours ago
The point is we had a deal, and Iran kept their enrichment below weapons development levels for all of that time. Even a few years after the deal was broken by Trump, apparently. We could have kept that status quo going and not dealt with tolls in the strait and expensive military operations, and it would have been better for everyone involved. But now I don't see a path back to that, and no one is interested enough to stop the proliferation or put enough resources into it to "win". Blame whoever you like I guess, but I'm blaming Trump for tearing things up and kicking off this recent war.
Comment by ericmay 22 hours ago
> We could have kept that status quo going
Like the last time the Houthis disrupted shipping? Or when Iran launched and supported attacks on Israel, plus continued disruption in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Iraq? (Yemen too but mentioned via Houthis). Idk if that's a tolerable situation.
Comment by nemomarx 22 hours ago
Good luck with non proliferation but I think the very obvious "we can attack and invade countries without nukes but can't do that to countries with nukes" lesson is being demonstrated to everyone, so countries that don't want to be invaded will be trying to get them now. Anyone near Russia for sure, possibly even Switzerland eventually.
Comment by ericmay 18 hours ago
Hey I mean this is your problem too, wherever you are from. You seem a little nonchalant about nuclear proliferation which most consider to be a rather serious matter because of the potential for real nuclear war or nuclear attacks.
Comment by nemomarx 17 hours ago
If you've got a good way to stop people from wanting nuclear power and weapons you can try it, and sincerely good luck to you. It would be nice. I don't think you can stop Iran though.
Comment by ericmay 16 hours ago
Obama was my favorite president and I think his efforts to stop Iran were great, but at the end of the day the agreement was never going to work because in order for it to work you require circumstances which defeat the purpose of the agreement in the first place, which is that Iran would not have an interest (like most countries) in pursuing a nuclear weapon.
To your point about stopping other countries. Well unfortunately nobody in the world except the United States seems to have any interest, and since they are unable to step up and be responsible we'll either have to bomb other countries who try to build nuclear weapons or we'll have to let those weapons spread and hope we don't see nuclear bombs being used. It's really awful. The EU, Russia, and China are the ones who bare the lion's share of the blame if that were to occur. China and Russia for turning a blind eye or outright supporting other countries obtaining the weapons, the EU for not supporting the United States when it seeks to stop the spread.
Comment by pphysch 22 hours ago
I understand history and contemporary events is not your strong suit, but such a deal was very much on the table in December 2021 and the Biden Admin laughed it off. Then again in April 2022.
Comment by ericmay 22 hours ago
I'd check your understanding but ok.
> but such a deal was very much on the table in December 2021 and the Biden Admin laughed it off.
What was the deal then? And please let us know how acceptable it was to the EU and Ukraine as well. :)
Comment by pphysch 22 hours ago
It's also clear that Iran having nukes would be a strategic deterrent to Israel's ultraviolent territorial expansionism.
Comment by andriy_koval 22 hours ago
its not clear at all. They clearly tried to hit Izrael with barrages of missiles, but looks like their targeting systems suck.
Comment by pphysch 20 hours ago
There's a reason why Israel has stopped directly striking Iran.
Comment by m4rtink 17 hours ago
Comment by andriy_koval 19 hours ago
its inefficient at this point and Israel has other targets
Comment by ericmay 22 hours ago
I'm not supportive of Israel having nuclear weapons, but Iran won't do something like this because the Israelis might nuke them. That doesn't excuse Iran also building nuclear weapons. Neither should have them, in my view.
Iran also supports the militants that continue to create conflict in Palestine. It's not one-sided and any vague assertion that there's only one bad actor here is illegitimate.
Comment by simiones 22 hours ago
Comment by ericmay 22 hours ago
Comment by ndiddy 20 hours ago
You've said elsewhere in this thread that Iran can never have a nuclear weapon and that a global oil crisis is worth preventing that from happening. You've referred to the Iranian government as a "deranged death cult". Here you're saying that even though Iran already has the capability of making Israel uninhabitable, they won't do it because they're rational actors who understand mutually assured destruction. Which one is it? Assuming your premise in this comment of the Iranians being rational actors who understand MAD is correct, could there be other reasons for Iran to pursue nuclear weapons (i.e. sovereignty and national security)?
Comment by ericmay 19 hours ago
It's both. The Iranians are rational within their own cultural understanding of what rational actions are. It's not rational, for example, for them to build nuclear weapons, deprive their people of economic prosperity, kill thousands of protestors, fund militant groups spreading terrorism and murder throughout the region, yet they do it anyway.
You can be simultaneously "rational" in some ways and "irrational" in others. Their general activities are irrational, but that doesn't mean they see the point in launching indiscriminate missiles at Israel only to be on the receiving end of a nuclear weapon. Why not wait until you have dozens and then go for it and launch one at Europe (don't forget, despite European politicians kissing the toes of Iran out of fear and cultural decline that Iran still hates Europe too) or the US too?
> could there be other reasons for Iran to pursue nuclear weapons (i.e. sovereignty and national security)?
Why do you assume the other reasons are for peaceful purposes? Can you think of some malicious purposes that Iran might acquire a nuclear weapon for?
Comment by ndiddy 15 hours ago
Iran's behavior (not its rhetoric) is largely pragmatic in the sense of pursuing national and regime security. For example, its strategy of funding military groups allows it to project power across the Middle East relatively cheaply, and meant that for decades most Iran-US and Iran-Israel fighting happened outside Iran. Of course, after the October 7 attacks the network lost much of its deterrent value once Israel decided that escalation was worth the costs the militant groups could impose, and began direct attacks on Iran. Still, it worked well for the prolonged gray-area conflict it was designed for.
Similarly, if Iran got a nuclear weapon, it wouldn't achieve much beyond self-defense. Iran wouldn't be able to blackmail or coerce its neighbors for the same reason that North Korea isn't able to extract concessions from the West, or that Israel isn't able to push around its neighbors. Nuclear weapons are not useful tools of coercion. If they were, maybe Israel's status as a nuclear power would have dissuaded Iran from pursuing nuclear enrichment. Any state that used a nuclear weapon would have the whole world turn against it and risk nuclear retaliation. Both Iran and its neighbors know this, so any hypothetical nuclear threats would not seem credible.
This explains Iran's historical strategy of being a "threshold" nuclear state- possessing the expertise and capability to build a nuclear weapon without suffering the political consequences of actually building one. However, the US-Israeli attacks on Iran in 2025 and 2026 (including assassinating the head of state and his family) may lead the Iranian leadership to conclude that having a threshold capability is insufficient and that the country needs an actual nuclear deterrent to protect its sovereignty in the future.
Comment by ericmay 13 hours ago
My point (and I apologize if it wasn’t clear enough) was that westerners approach Iran from our own concept of rational behavior: democracy, human rights, free trade (over simplifying but bear with me).
If Iran were acting rational according to our principles we wouldn’t be here. But they’re not. Trying to negotiate with them based on “rationality” doesn’t make sense because the views on rational behavior are generally incompatible. It’s the same to a large extent with Putin. Why give up huge economic advantages and prosperity and all of those things and become a truly European company just to invade Ukraine? The behavior according to our views isn’t rational but to Putin (and those who support) it’s quite rational.
Comment by mrguyorama 21 hours ago
Chemical weapons are perfectly effective for that desire and dramatically easier to build and deploy than nuclear weapons.
So if you expect Iran to just explode Israel ASAP, why are they holding back right now with their weapons not targeting civilian infrastructure? Why did they stop pursuing cheap WMDs that don't need complicated enrichment?
Note that Iran is objectively not pursuing a nuke as fast as possible. They've had sufficient enriched uranium for a long time to be able to actually start building and testing physics packages and even get their first detonation test, but they instead have just been building a stockpile.
>I'm not supportive of Israel having nuclear weapons
Okay, then by your arguments about Iran, we should be invading Israel right? Like right now! They cannot be allowed to have nukes!
What about North Korea? It sure is funny how all the hand wringing about them getting nuclear weapons got quiet after they built a nuke and didn't use it
Comment by ericmay 18 hours ago
This is immature. If you wanted to use that logic we should invade Russia and China too, and of course the UK and France. Let me cut to the core of the issue here and prune away the window dressing: not all countries are treated the same, nor do they deserve to be.
> What about North Korea? It sure is funny how all the hand wringing about them getting nuclear weapons got quiet after they built a nuke and didn't use it
You don't think it's still worth hand-wringing about? Just because it's not #1 on the news cycle - quick look a Trump tweet - doesn't mean it's not a big problem. Tell it to the Japanese in particular who have to suffer from North Korea launching ballistic missiles around their country.
Comment by anon7725 21 hours ago
Comment by ericmay 21 hours ago
Comment by Oranguru 18 hours ago
Comment by ericmay 18 hours ago
Comment by anon7725 21 hours ago
“The United States will never condone leadership by corrupt criminals who are supported by and support Russia”
Comment by soulofmischief 22 hours ago
This was an interesting piece of fiction you've written, with some very impressive mental gymnastics on display. However, it's so wrong that engaging with it would be doing you a disservice because it would make you think it's even an intellectually respectable position to have in the first place.
Comment by bijowo1676 23 hours ago
Comment by DrScientist 22 hours ago
Comment by bluGill 22 hours ago
Comment by DrScientist 21 hours ago
What they did was aggressively reduce demand by accelerating the switch to EV's and firing up a few more coal powerstations.
In terms of influencing the midterms - I suspect China isn't anywhere near the front of the queue in hoping Trump get's a beating given the chaos he is causing.
Complaining about foreign interference is ironically straight from the Hillary playbook.
Comment by bluGill 20 hours ago
How much of their strategy is to change elections vs other concerns I don't know.
Comment by Frieren 22 hours ago
Donald Trump can end this at any time if he wants. It would have been better to not have started it, thou. Less killing of innocent people, less spending on weapons, better mental health for USA soldiers...
And why is China suddenly at fault for America's actions?
Comment by toast0 16 hours ago
I'm not really sure that's true. The US is no longer a credible negotiator. I'm not sure negotiating a peace would necessarily end the situation immediately.
Comment by oblio 11 hours ago
The US isn't even negotiating. Fairly sure they don't have a full negotiating team and they're doing it via 1-2 Trump flunkeys and Pakistan intermediating.
Comment by LtWorf 22 hours ago
Comment by sentientlaserbe 21 hours ago
Comment by softwaredoug 23 hours ago
OTOH midterm generic ballots are much more stable than top line presidential horse race polling. So it might only matter at the margins.
Comment by lowbloodsugar 23 hours ago
Comment by kadoban 22 hours ago
China is playing long, most of the ~unchanging things are in their favor and the US already proved that they're unreliable. People won't forget that soon even if Trump is gone.
Comment by LarsKrimi 22 hours ago
Comment by kadoban 21 hours ago
My bet would be that China doesn't care much either way, they win regardless.
Comment by LarsKrimi 21 hours ago
In my view the worst that can happen for China is that Trump gets limited by anything. He's hurting US relations more than he's hurting China short or long-term. Relations take longer to build than trade
"Don't interrupt your opponent when they're making a mistake"
Comment by kadoban 19 hours ago
Yeah, that's the obvious answer, but I suspect there's a point where if the US fucks things up too quickly and too messily, there's fewer customers for China's crap and/or the random throws of monkey shit drag China into messes they don't feel like dealing with.
Slow erosion of the US's global power is likely better for them than an implosion that might cause collatoral damage.
Comment by LarsKrimi 18 hours ago
The situation you're imagining is one of a global all encompassing depression caused by a single government.
Not unthinkable, but the Americans would feel that deeply. Do you think they want to?
Comment by kadoban 17 hours ago
Doesn't even have to go that far (though it pretty easily can, the US is a big enough market). If the US causes a refugee crisis that affects one of China's allies, or fucks with the global oil supply enough or a thousand other things, that stuff is still annoying to China even if it's usually relatively better for them than it is for the US.
> Not unthinkable, but the Americans would feel that deeply. Do you think they want to?
The people in the US choosing do not care if the rest of America feels it or not.
Comment by TitaRusell 4 hours ago
Comment by giardini 22 hours ago
- NATO - Maintaining security on the high seas for other than USA shipping,
- tariffs imposed by other countries (yes, other countries have been imposing tariffs for decades):
https://wjno.iheart.com/content/2025-03-17-qa-how-many-count...
The USA can use the money saved for its own citizens (possibly even lowering their taxes!)
Comment by jacquesm 22 hours ago
> - NATO - Maintaining security on the high seas for other than USA shipping,
NATO consists of a lot of countries, why would they only work for USA shipping? And where do you think that shipping comes from?
> - tariffs imposed by other countries (yes, other countries have been imposing tariffs for decades):
Of course they do. But they're not usually idiots about it.
> The USA can use the money saved for its own citizens (possibly even lowering their taxes!)
You advocate for tariffs but don't understand how tariffs work...
Comment by dgellow 22 hours ago
How is that going? Any progress there? Are US citizens richer than they were before?
Comment by 5upplied_demand 21 hours ago
Some of them certainly are richer, specifically people with the last name Trump.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/aug/13/trump-presid...
Comment by swish-mish 22 hours ago
Comment by dam_jackalopes 22 hours ago
Comment by globalnode 22 hours ago
I was feeling miserable reading this thread until I saw this, thanks for cheering me up.
Comment by arbitrary_name 14 hours ago
Comment by cmrdporcupine 21 hours ago
I see this over and over again with the Canada stuff. Or Greenland stuff. Not taking it seriously because "oh that's just Trump deflecting cuz of [Epstein|Midterms|etc]." Meanwhile the actual blast radius here is far far far outside of the domestic arena.
When will people just take this guy at his word? He says he wants to conquer or do X Y and Z. That's it. He said those things. Believe him. Stop trying to make it about yourself. (And also he wants to make personal money off manipulating the stock market and oil prices.)
It's not a good look, esp to the victims of Trump outside the US who have no power to vote in American elections and yet are victims of American power.
Comment by toast0 16 hours ago
He says a lot of things he doesn't do though. Beleiving him is a bad heuristic and so is disbeleiving him.
Comment by seatac76 22 hours ago
Comment by elicash 21 hours ago
I thought the remaining issues were a dispute related to the timing requirements in the War Powers Resolution, plus unsettled Constitutional law.
Comment by strbean 20 hours ago
The 2001 AUMF hasn't been repealed. It was used as recently as 2025 to justify attacks on Venezuelan ships.
Comment by elicash 14 hours ago
(That said, the 2001 AUMF hasn't been invoked against Iran.)
Comment by AnimalMuppet 16 hours ago
But Trump found a smokescreen to hide behind. And Congress is too spineless to impeach him for unauthorized use of military force. And here we are.
Comment by ajross 22 hours ago
It wasn't a war we could win. We fought it anyway. Now we're stuck trying to lose in a tolerable way. Which requires more fighting.
At some point the balance will tip and China will take over patronage of the right selection of powers to push us out, which will disentangle western involvement (and make it their problem, of course). But at this stage there really is no hope for genuine stability.
Comment by MBCook 22 hours ago
Luckily, we reversed that policy and have been using as much oil as possible.
All hail the great barrel of goo.
Comment by superxpro12 19 hours ago
Comment by bluGill 22 hours ago
Comment by LtWorf 22 hours ago
source: https://www.raffaellocortina.it/scheda-libro/piergiorgio-odi...
I don't have the book here with me so I cannot check the exact amount of years but it's ridiculously small.
Comment by Rover222 17 hours ago
Comment by tmnvix 16 hours ago
Plenty to consider there
Comment by AnimalMuppet 16 hours ago
Comment by bad_haircut72 20 hours ago
Comment by 737min 23 hours ago
Women, gays and infidels are pubished by Houthi police.
Comment by lenkite 21 hours ago
The EU & US don't have ANY issues supporting and financing governments that punish gays and infidels. Hint: New Syrian government, Saudi government (which is also famous for publicly beheading gays)
So why not accept the Houthis too ? Otherwise, my apologies, your stance just sounds like the usual disgusting Western sanctimonious hypocrisy.
Comment by saxonww 21 hours ago
I think you're right that strategic / economic interests have outweighed cultural issues / human rights.
Comment by kelipso 19 hours ago
Comment by hn993302 15 hours ago
Comment by inglor_cz 22 hours ago
Comment by 2OEH8eoCRo0 22 hours ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarkha
> "God is great, Death to America, Death to Israel, Curse on the Jews, Victory to Islam"
Comment by tkel 12 hours ago
Comment by mrala 22 hours ago
> In April 2016, during UN-brokered peace talks in Kuwait, Houthi representatives gave the United States a "sincere apology" for the "Death to America" slogan, claiming that the slogan was used for "domestic consumption as a means to attract support in the streets and create a common cause between their supporters to keep them united."
> During the Red Sea crisis, Houthi supporters waved the flag of Palestine every Friday during anti-Gaza genocide and anti-western attacks on Yemen demonstrations, alongside the slogan and flag of Yemen. A new Houthi slogan appeared after the group's re-designation as a terrorist organisation: "America is the mother of terrorism" set on a red background.
Comment by tptacek 21 hours ago
Comment by fwip 18 hours ago
Well, they're not wrong.
Comment by inglor_cz 16 hours ago
Comment by wuisce 22 hours ago
Comment by littlecranky67 1 day ago
Comment by markvdb 23 hours ago
- make sure fuel prices increase globally
- The US economy is relatively well-shielded from the fallout by its own fossil fuel sources, local and in colonies like Venezuela.
- export more US fossil fuels, especially to Europe, at inflated prices. US insiders reap the profits.
- further kneecap European competitiveness in energy intensive sectors, steal market share. Oh well, small gift to China here too, but still a net win for the US.
Comment by noelsusman 23 hours ago
Comment by danisth 23 hours ago
Comment by jimbokun 22 hours ago
Comment by pixl97 22 hours ago
Comment by WarmWash 22 hours ago
Iranians were rioting against the regime, Israel intelligence handed the US a report that the collective "Head" of the Iranian regime will be all together at one place, at one time.
Cut off the head, and the rioters riding high on the win will topple the rest. Coming off of the swift clean victory in Venezuela, and Trumps incredible desire to put feathers in his cap, it was an irresistible proposition.
So he decided to cut off the head, which was successful. The miscalculation however was that the rioters got scared/apathetic rather than motivated. The power vacuum was filled by the same people who were there before. I'm sure Mossad and the CIA were probably on the ground trying to ground swell support, but evidently it didn't happen.
Comment by xboxnolifes 21 hours ago
Comment by mrguyorama 21 hours ago
Killing a few heads of Iran was known to not be an effective strategy, because the power is in the hands of the IRGC as an institution and large group, not the figureheads. This is especially hilarious when the Trump admin was so freaking stupid, they couldn't figure this out even after it didn't work the first time. They continued trying to kill random figureheads as if that plan would have had more success if you killed people nobody had previously heard of.
None of this is "miscalculation" or bad luck or taking a reasonable gamble. It's stupidity. There was not evidence to believe this plan had a strong chance. There was no organized resistance. Claims of supporting the Kurds, a group the Trump admin has fucked over more than once (nit: Other Kurds, they aren't a single group), happened only after the war was already going tits up and involved absurd tweets about "dropping them weapons" as if that's just a thing you can do on a whim and as if the Kurds themselves were willing, ready and able to resist the Iran regime.
We did not "Cut off the head" in Venezuela. We conspired with insiders to replace one figurehead with another. It was not a victory except for extremely weird people who think abducting a foreign head of state is somehow a good thing.
The Pentagon was actively telling the admin all of this, which is why some of them were fired.
What happened was even dumber than this absurd post-hoc rationalization: Israel was fucking pissed after Oct 7th, which is reasonable, and decided that "Mowing the grass" was done, and they were going to Finally fix this. They planned to attack Iran. Their strikes over the next year were done to enable this. Shortly before their planned attacks were to start, Bibi came to Trump and told him about this Righteous war they were about to do and got it in Trump's mind that it would be good for the US to look Strong if they attacked first, as Iran would probably attack US bases in retaliation anyway, and may end up pulled in regardless. IE, there's a chance Kamala would also have gotten sucked into this quagmire in some fashion, depending on how Iran had reacted to just Israel's strikes. Nobody was in a strong position to tell Israel "No, don't start this war, that's stupid, it's stupid, you've already neutered all the proxy groups, just take your victory and go home"
This is Israel's war. They don't mind the straight being screwed up. They don't mind the world economy falling down.
Comment by ChoGGi 13 hours ago
I prefer the version where Bibi quietly threatens Trump with videos/etc from his island vacations.
Comment by markvdb 22 hours ago
Negative externalities:
- loss of trust
- loss of evidence based policy
- loss of long-term planning
- loss of talent
- financial loss for almost all except the rare insiders
Comment by postsantum 23 hours ago
George Friedman, The Next Decade
Comment by Rygian 23 hours ago
Seems to be in contradiction.
Comment by nemomarx 22 hours ago
Comment by the_gipsy 23 hours ago
Comment by hebelehubele 23 hours ago
Comment by culi 15 hours ago
Comment by toyg 23 hours ago
Comment by fnordpiglet 22 hours ago
Comment by saturn8601 18 hours ago
Comment by toyg 17 hours ago
Comment by culi 15 hours ago
When Iran hit some of Exxon's oil facilities in Saudi Arabia, their stock actually shot up. Because they have an even greater investment in LNG in Texas which are now incredibly valuable
Comment by DrScientist 22 hours ago
The truth is probably much more multi-headed - though hard to see how the US would have gone to war without some assessment of their own energy situation.
Comment by ChoGGi 13 hours ago
That can't end well?
Comment by Art9681 23 hours ago
Comment by giardini 22 hours ago
Comment by markus_zhang 22 hours ago
Comment by Al-Khwarizmi 23 hours ago
A rise in crude prices might pay off for a small country that lives almost exclusively off it (say, Saudi Arabia, in the hyphotetical case that it could keep exporting as normal) but for the US? I don't think it does. Surely, Europe is more exposed than the US and will suffer even more, but this is not a zero-sum game.
So I don't think it's an elaborate plan, it's just Trump being reckless as usual.
Comment by Catloafdev 23 hours ago
Comment by toast0 15 hours ago
Comment by AnthonyMouse 21 hours ago
The fun part about this is that it shows what people actually care about.
What happens if petroleum prices go up? People use less. It's the entire premise of a carbon tax. Fuel costs more so people buy a hybrid or electric vehicle, power utilities find renewables or nuclear more attractive relative to natural gas, etc. In a market economy this is the primary way to get people to switch from something to alternatives -- which is pretty important if you think climate change is a problem.
This is obviously not why Trump is doing it, but it's the consequence of it anyway. So now we get to see what people care about. Do you like higher oil prices because it speeds up the transition away from fossil fuels, or dislike them because of who it is that caused it this time?
Comment by watwut 23 hours ago
Comment by galangalalgol 23 hours ago
Comment by watwut 19 hours ago
We dont have to imagine this. We kind of see both variants in the open.
Comment by p-e-w 23 hours ago
Comment by fofoz 23 hours ago
Comment by discreteevent 23 hours ago
Comment by Art9681 23 hours ago
Comment by m_fayer 22 hours ago
Comment by voganmother42 22 hours ago
The ICE recruits are raising the bar.
Oh and now the FBI can consider those with a background in bestiality, so lots of fresh talent there
Comment by 5upplied_demand 22 hours ago
> https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/iran-war-warn...
Comment by estearum 23 hours ago
We had a retard in the Oval Office 2017-2021 surrounded by "the deep state" (i.e. career managers of the ultra-complex organization called "the government"), and politically constrained by Congress.
Now we have that same retard, but supported by vast purges of aforementioned managers, and politically unconstrained by the cultists and cowards (the two forms of GOP representative) in Congress.
Comment by megous 22 hours ago
Comment by epolanski 23 hours ago
Comment by jimbokun 22 hours ago
Comment by wins32767 23 hours ago
Comment by EGreg 23 hours ago
When all is said and done it will be he, not AOC or Bernie or any "Green New Deal" folks, that will be remembered by history as the president who did more to get people off fossil fuels than any other.
Comment by fofoz 23 hours ago
Comment by EGreg 23 hours ago
Comment by 27183 23 hours ago
Comment by bijowo1676 22 hours ago
Comment by giardini 22 hours ago
Comment by nemomarx 22 hours ago
Comment by bijowo1676 22 hours ago
Comment by llm_nerd 22 hours ago
The Venezuela comment is extremely weird. You know Venezuela has negligible production, right, and that it would take 100s of billions of investments, over decades, to get reasonable production that would make a difference. That's ignoring that currently there is a laughably illegitimate puppet government -- literally just Madero's government minus him, as they did the coup with the US -- that has a 100% chance of a violent overthrow in the future. Which is exactly why all of the oil companies are shrugging and saying no thanks.
Venezuela is a farce -- much like $5000 "dividend" for a government literally on the precipice of bankruptcy, as Bessent runs around, near tears, trying to convince everyone that they're the house and he's the big dog German Shepherd instead of the face of a failing empire having its last pathetic gasp, to laughter all around -- that Trump thinks gives him leverage against Canada. It is unbelievably pathetic business, like renaming a 400+ year old name on a lake like a little bitch.
There is zero scenario where this has benefitted the US, but a drunkard incompetent secdef (sorry "secwar") convinced a foolish demented rapist, who already had Israel whispering in his ear, how easy and painless this foolish debacle will be.
ROFL.
Comment by jonplackett 1 day ago
Comment by skeeter2020 23 hours ago
Comment by serf 23 hours ago
oil spiked and then crashed during the gulf war & the iraq war in 03.
the gulf war probably because of western price control methods kicking in, the iraq war because of an increase in confidence that the region would produce oil after western 'securing' of oil fields allowing further volume investment from the UAE and friends.
I guess it really just depends on what the definition of 'regional disruption' is.
Comment by MBCook 22 hours ago
Instability is instability. Oil is fungible.
There’s no reason to think someone else won’t escalate this further disrupting supplies even more. That will push prices up.
Even if they don’t, if oil can’t get through this straight it will have to go somewhere else, which will increase shipping traffic and demand for “your oil” right? And wouldn’t that also push up prices?
Comment by jcranmer 23 hours ago
Comment by seatac76 22 hours ago
GCC will have to talk to Iran now, there is no reasonable way out of this quagmire other than a regional accommodation with Iran. Talk about a regression but here we are.
Comment by briffle 1 day ago
Comment by sonotathrowaway 1 day ago
Comment by computomatic 23 hours ago
Comment by estearum 23 hours ago
Comment by talon8635 23 hours ago
And against, not with, Western Europe?
So being prices down where, in eastern Europe?
Comment by danans 23 hours ago
I suspect they would sooner curtail production rather then sell at a discount due to route restrictions.
Comment by Paradigma11 22 hours ago
Comment by haunter 23 hours ago
Comment by epolanski 23 hours ago
It doesn't matter if in Texas wells are producing it at a penny for barrel, if the global prices are high that oil is going to be sold to Philippinos, Japanese, Italians or South Africans.
So, at the same time, it doesn't matter if some new routes open or close, it doesn't particularly favor one or the other buyer, it's still sold globally on a bid.
Comment by chasd00 20 hours ago
Comment by throwaway473825 17 hours ago
The US refines heavy oil that's harder to refine and hence more profitable to import since it has few buyers.
Comment by epolanski 20 hours ago
Comment by echelon 23 hours ago
Comment by bijowo1676 22 hours ago
Comment by epolanski 20 hours ago
In any case, bad idea if other retaliate with their exports.
Also, US cannot really use the oil it produces, because it can refine very little of it.
Any export ban would require massive investments.
Comment by QDwQ1 15 hours ago
Comment by alephnerd 1 day ago
This hurts Europe more than Asia.
The UK, France, Italy, Netherlands, Denmark, and others are similarly opposed to the Houthis having conducted airstrikes on the Houthis (eg. 2025) as well as helping target them directly or indirectly.
And a large portion of global shipping is owned by Greek conglomerates - a country that is a close ally of Israel.
Most GCC states also have some form of defense agreement with the UK or France. If those turn out to be meaningless, it reduces their incentive to cut preferential deals with European states.
Additionally, this further enhances Turkiye and Pakistan's hand, as Saudi Arabia has signed defense pacts with both and Pakistan has threatened action against Iran yesterday if further incidents threaten Saudi Arabia. If they were able to dislodge the Houthis without direct European intervention, then it is a massive black stain on the EU's power projection capacity and it's claim that it should be treated as a great power. It also gives Turkiye additional leverage against the EU.
Finally, the Houthis struck the East-West Pipeline [0]. Much of the KSA's oil is in Eastern Saudi Arabia around Dhahran. Most large Asian states like China, India, Japan, and South Korea have continued operations in Iran that allowed them continued passage. European states lack access to GCC oil as a result of Perim island being controlled by the Houthis.
[0] - https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/yemens-houthis-rea...
Comment by eagleal 1 day ago
Be it the Ukranian conflict, the ME crisis, the NA wars and instabilities, etc. The EU is the one that geopolitically speaking lost the most.
Unless they're full puppets for foreign interests, I simply do not understand how they could leave foreign actors to dictate policies that affect thier own territory and enterprises without any sort of critical thought.
But even then, they could not have possibly been all mere puppets. And yet.
Comment by fabian2k 23 hours ago
Of course we should have gone for renewable energy more forcefully, but that wouldn't have resolved the issue. That change will take time, and you can't arbitrarily accelerate it.
Comment by throwaway473825 22 hours ago
https://www.ffe.de/en/publications/merit-order-shifts-and-th...
Nuclear is cheapest, then lignite, then hard coal, and then gas. Germany phased out the cheapest option first, now continues with the second, and is expanding the most expensive.
The obvious choice would have been to do what China and India are doing - phase out gas power first and focus on electrification. But Europe did the opposite.
Comment by mytailorisrich 23 hours ago
Sure, the environment, etc but Europe hasn't invested strategically in that, either. China has.
Comment by Tuna-Fish 23 hours ago
EU opposes the Houthis because they are a horrifying slave state that distributes children as sex slaves to their troops.
EU opposes Russia because it is a horrifying fascist dictatorship that has repeatedly invaded it's neighbors, and constantly talks about it's historical claims to EU territory.
In the NA conflicts it's harder to draw such a clear line, because the conflicts typically have about 15 sides each, but the basic algorithm you can use is generally that EU tries very hard to pick sides based on morality, not geopolitical interests.
Comment by rdm_blackhole 19 hours ago
The EU is like the US, it does business with vile and despicable people if it is in its own interest.
Comment by eagleal 23 hours ago
Comment by markus_zhang 1 day ago
Comment by rdm_blackhole 22 hours ago
The European parliament has been bought 10 times over by the lobbies.
See https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/08/lobbyists-euro...
"By some estimates, they influence 75% of legislation"
> But even then, they could not have possibly been all mere puppets. And yet.
Even if the lobbying was not reason for all the bad decisions of the EU, the EU parliament has no way to actually propose any laws on its own. All the laws emanate from the commission which is also bought and paid for by you guessed it, the lobbies.
Comment by alephnerd 1 day ago
When the UK left the EU and France+Italy were in the midst of their economic doldrums due to the Eurozone crisis, this left the hard power states within the EU comparatively weakened.
But the collapse of Minsk II and the ongoing war in the Middle East led to a cascading crisis for a unified Europe.
Comment by eagleal 23 hours ago
It's business and by now it should be clear to anyone that there's no morality involved in this space.
There's nothing wrong with Russia as energy partner, as long as you don't shoot yourself in the foot by blowing up the alternatives. South of EU had proper energy supplies from ME/NA. For example crisis in ME was mitigated by Russian energy or NA energy (Algeria, Tunisia, Lebanon, etc).
The new hegemons like Turkey, Israel, etc came only later, yet we can't say they're Saints can we? Also to appease the US administration line a lot of green energy projects were put on hold, and were only restarted this year after the Hormuz situation.
The only real explanation is shortsightness for personal interests (but even then you'd have to have all your capitals abroad), or being a tool for foreign interests.
Comment by gib444 23 hours ago
It's an open secret that Russian money is deep, deep in European politics.
Comment by throwaway198846 23 hours ago
1.How do they pay Iran considering the sanctions? 2.Do you think EU shouldn't sanction Iran even though they violated NNPT and their terrible record on human rights because Iran can threaten them with a sufficient price?
> a country that is a close ally of Israel
Are they? They never sent a single weapon or soldier to help israel, they have no formal or informal mutual defense agreement. Israel buy no military equipment from Greece. You mistake mutual interest because of a common enemy - Turkey to close alliance.
Comment by alephnerd 23 hours ago
2. I agree. I'm just being prosaic as to why European states are in the pickle they are today.
3. They are closely entwined via logistics, but Cyprus would be an even closer Israel-Cyprus ties. The reality is, the Saudi-Turkiye-Kuwait-Pakistan alliance is a direct reaction to the Israel-Greece-Cyprus-UAE-India cooperation or the now signed Israel-Greece-Cyprus trilateral.
Comment by throwaway198846 23 hours ago
Comment by inglor_cz 22 hours ago
Comment by alephnerd 18 hours ago
I don't expect a war to happen, but Iran will double down support for Afghanistan as well as lay the red carpet for India to continue operating in the country.
[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Iran%E2%80%93Pakistan_cro...
[1] - https://quwa.org/pakistan-defence-news/pakistan-iran-mediati...
Comment by toss1 22 hours ago
The Iranian-backed Houthis also struck the Saudi East-West oil pipeline [0], pumping stations and refining capability. Reductions in export output initially estimated around 700,000 barrels per day now missing from the market.
[0] https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Saudi-Oil...
Comment by voxleone 22 hours ago
Brazil isn't risk-free. There are environmental, political and logistical risks, but its oil production is geographically removed from the principal Middle Eastern conflict zones and its exports can help diversify global supply.
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/chinese-refiner-sino...
https://www.reuters.com/commentary/reuters-open-interest/why...
https://www.thetimes.com/business/energy/article/hormuz-cris...
Comment by Byvrsakjo10 22 hours ago
Comment by tptacek 21 hours ago
Comment by dam_jackalopes 22 hours ago
The mainstream media has made it sound like the fall of Mocha was at least somewhat surprising, but I don't think that's accurate. It was pretty clear the Houthis would reach the port as late as last week.
Comment by riffraff 22 hours ago
Comment by andrewla 23 hours ago
As I type this I feel somewhat vindicated by the update to the page, "Iran does not dictate every Houthi decision - but they appear increasingly aligned", which I think does a good job of clarifying the relationship. It does, however, say "Iran has publicly backed the Houthis during the latest fighting. The geography helps explain why", which is useful factual evidence (since Iranian officials have indeed made public statements in support of the Houthis) but the use of "backed" in this sentence is bad style since that word has been used in exactly this context to have a much deeper meaning than Iran saying "we've got your back bro"
Comment by makotech221 23 hours ago
Comment by HappyPanacea 17 hours ago
Comment by consumer451 23 hours ago
The next question should be: who benefits?
Comment by tptacek 15 hours ago
I think people read things like "Iran-backed" and immediately frame it in terms of US/Iran conflicts, but GCC/Iran conflicts are the more salient geopolitical frame, at least until like last year.
Comment by laimewhisps 23 hours ago
Comment by jswartz 23 hours ago
Comment by huntertwo 23 hours ago
Comment by jswartz 23 hours ago
The poster blaming everything "100%" on Israel tells me that they are not a person of nuance, and people who engage in rigid, black-and-white thinking often have overly simplistic views about how the world works (e.g. Jews control the world).
Correlation does not mean causation, but it hints at it.
Comment by amdivia 22 hours ago
Comment by tgv 22 hours ago
Comment by SmasherEpilepti 22 hours ago
Outside of extremist Muslim rhetoric, I've seen almost no anti-Jew criticism of Israel, but I've seen many statements like yours that equate criticism of Israel with antisemitism.
Comment by hn993302 16 hours ago
Comment by hn993302 20 hours ago
Comment by Ydarbleoj 23 hours ago
Comment by bandofthehawk 22 hours ago
Comment by Paradigma11 22 hours ago
Comment by bandofthehawk 22 hours ago
Comment by buellerbueller 22 hours ago
Comment by Patirckjdhej 23 hours ago
Comment by electrondood 22 hours ago
I'm sick of this equivocation. Nobody is claiming that Jewish people in general manipulated Trump into touching the stove.
Some facts:
* Netanyahu met with Trump in February to show him a presentation intended to convince him to attack Iran.
* Netanyahu convinced Trump that it would be fast and easy.
* Trump's own intelligence agencies and cabinet members called this "farcical" and "bullshit."
* Trump gave the green light anyway, based on Netanyahu's presentation, and against the advice of CIA, State, and the Joint Chiefs.
[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/07/us/politics/trump-iran-wa...
Comment by Patirckjdhej 22 hours ago
Comment by SmasherEpilepti 22 hours ago
Comment by Patirckjdhej 22 hours ago
Comment by dang 21 hours ago
Comment by SmasherEpilepti 22 hours ago
Comment by dang 21 hours ago
a.k.a. please don't feed the trolls
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
(Also, please avoid tit-fot-tat spats - they never do any good.)
Comment by SmasherEpilepti 15 hours ago
Comment by MBCook 22 hours ago
The objection here is to the particular faction in power. Not the existence of the state.
Comment by TitaRusell 17 hours ago
Comment by sicktriple 23 hours ago
Comment by AnimalMuppet 16 hours ago
Comment by shevy-java 21 hours ago
Comment by burnt-resistor 19 hours ago
Comment by science4sail 18 hours ago
Will MbS place a phone call to Pakistan National Command if his oil shipments get distilled for too long?
Comment by watwut 17 hours ago
Comment by redsocksfan45 22 hours ago
Comment by josefritzishere 1 day ago
Comment by kevmo 1 day ago
Comment by consumer451 1 day ago
Comment by kevmo 1 day ago
They need to just stop promoting alternative facts and call it Yemen.
Comment by imglorp 1 day ago
All three headlines seem pretty neutral, no?
Comment by sobellian 1 day ago
Comment by yorwba 1 day ago
Comment by mschuster91 1 day ago
News media generally report the de iure situation, not the de facto situation. And de iure, Yemen still has a regular government, and the Houthi are a bunch of rebels.
Comment by GlacierFox 1 day ago
Comment by khriss 23 hours ago
Comment by dang 21 hours ago
Comment by aliasxneo 23 hours ago
Comment by Ydarbleoj 22 hours ago
Comment by aliasxneo 22 hours ago
Comment by Ydarbleoj 18 hours ago
Comment by acheron 16 hours ago
Words mean things.
Comment by Ydarbleoj 14 hours ago
Comment by tomjen3 22 hours ago
Comment by adrr 22 hours ago
Comment by BLKNSLVR 21 hours ago
Comment by lukan 23 hours ago
Or wait, maybe just flamewar style debates are not so welcome here, so people flag instead have another debate about who is more evil?
Comment by MBCook 22 hours ago
Everything you buy has to be shipped. That needs gas. Everything with plastic has oil in it.
Economic downturns/depressions/panics affect investment and the amount of money available for companies to keep running. Plus consumer/business demand. Especially hard on startups who aren’t profitable or don’t even have a product out yet.
Even if you ignore the extremely obvious political stuff, this will directly affect the entire audience here.
Comment by rchaud 22 hours ago
Comment by lukan 22 hours ago
Comment by newsclues 1 day ago
Comment by strictnein 1 day ago
Comment by ActionHank 1 day ago
Comment by stronglikedan 23 hours ago
Comment by shagie 1 day ago
Comment by muddi900 1 day ago
Comment by gowld 1 day ago
Comment by alt227 23 hours ago
Comment by qw12kl 1 day ago
Comment by 737min 22 hours ago
Comment by dang 21 hours ago
I realize that this thread has many ways of degenerating but what you posted here was particularly pure flamebait.
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49660220.
Comment by 737min 20 hours ago
But why on 9/11 have front page about Houthis, many comments supporting them and others apparent unknowing who they are?
Comment by jst1fthsdys 18 hours ago
Comment by wuisce 22 hours ago
Comment by logicchains 22 hours ago
Comment by xinuc 22 hours ago
Comment by AnnikaL 22 hours ago
Comment by bandofthehawk 22 hours ago
Comment by bluGill 22 hours ago
Comment by BLKNSLVR 21 hours ago
This year.
... so far.
All sides are bad.
Comment by bluGill 20 hours ago
Comment by tt24 22 hours ago
Why do you have to immediately redirect
Are you sensitive to this topic or something?
Comment by infamouscow 22 hours ago
During WW2, the Allies used flame throwers for goodness sake and killed a lot of innocent people taking Europe back from the Nazis.
If you made this argument in the 1940s, you would've been dragged out of your home and beaten half to death. And it would be for good reason. :)
There's no pseudo-intellectual moral argument that stands up to might-is-right. In the real world, that's how it works, regardless how much you disagree.
Comment by jghn 22 hours ago
Comment by sys32768 23 hours ago
Comment by 737min 23 hours ago
Comment by mrbombastic 22 hours ago
Comment by pknerd 23 hours ago
Comment by mrkeen 7 hours ago
Comment by pknerd 6 hours ago
Comment by criddell 23 hours ago
Comment by pknerd 23 hours ago
Comment by laimewhisps 23 hours ago
Comment by bluGill 22 hours ago
Comment by dismalaf 23 hours ago
Comment by bicx 22 hours ago
Comment by logicchains 22 hours ago
Comment by BLKNSLVR 21 hours ago
No! Money down!
Comment by BLKNSLVR 21 hours ago
Comment by empath75 19 hours ago
This would be the wrong conclusion to take from it. Trump is incredibly unpopular domestically and the war is dumb and pointless and was sprung on the US population by surprise and planned and executed with complete and utter incompetence, and the negative economic consequences are way out of proportion to any conceivable benefit we will get out of it. It's not a lack of resolve, it's a rational reaction to incompetent leadership.
"The West's enemies" have to be careful not to give the US an excuse to commit to a real war, rather than fight it with basically pocket change the way we are now while we look for a way out.
Comment by 737min 22 hours ago
https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/03/27/yemen-houthis-sentence-m...
“In addition to death sentences that include crucifixion and stoning, the Houthi court sentenced 23 men to prison for periods of up to 10 years. Three of them were also sentenced to public flogging”
Comment by jonplackett 22 hours ago
https://www.humandignitytrust.org/country-profile/saudi-arab...
Comment by grafmax 3 hours ago
Comment by spwa4 22 hours ago
Slightly harder to design and build. Much cheaper to run. Excellent for power. Bad for bombs.
And, yes, just to get ahead of your next question: the US (and Europe and Russia and China) have offered to help Iran create these. Explaining it to them. Send people and engineers who have done it. Just get them from us. Or for free. We have tried everything. Iran has systematically refused everything, yet insist their program is for peaceful purposes only.
I'm not saying Saudi Arabia is perfect, far from it. But they are not looking to destroy the world or the region, and yes, sorry to say, but Iran is.
Comment by riffraff 22 hours ago
It is more likely they want to get the same level of safety countries with nukes get, e.g. North Korea's leadership is at no risen of getting a "democratizing" invasion.
Then again, who knows what the next leader will do.
Comment by spwa4 19 hours ago
The IRGC has constantly used every weapon they have, and by that I mean firing it, not as a means of defense, but as a means of attack. That too, is something they're still doing, before and after the US-Iran escalation.
Allowing this particular bunch of assholes get a nuclear weapon is a level of stupidity that is barely describable. If they want such a weapon for safety, that'll be the first time in their history.
And yes, I get it, a lot of people really hate Israel. There is even some justification for that. But do you believe for even one second this government will stop after bombing Israel?
Comment by jonplackett 15 hours ago
And then maybe look at the number of nuclear bombs used against other nations.
Comment by mrkeen 18 hours ago
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/1/13/a-timeline-of-crise...
It doesn't look like foreign conquest is part of their MO.
Comment by spwa4 16 hours ago
sigh this is aljazeera ... They don't mention what Iran did in the Iran-Iraq war (Iraq gave up after ~1 year, and Iran tried to conquer Iraq for 7 years. Oh and you might want to Google "plastic keys to heaven". You see, according to the IRGC allah provides cheap demining equipment in the form of minority children. And before you say they've now stopped you might want to look at the pictures they're spreading TODAY about the Houthi's "success". There's a ~10 year old boy on those pictures ...)
If what you say is remotely true, what is the intention behind Hezbollah, the Houthi's, Iraq's religious parties, and Iran's participation in Syria's civil war (delivering the soldiers).
Please note that if you give an explanation, and you say it's "to feel safe", note that Iran helped kill 600,000 Syrians (they brought the soldiers to kill everyone). Houthi's in Yemen killed tens of thousands and starved hundreds of thousands ... to death, with Iran's help.
I mean this is what they do to feel safe, and you are trying to give an argument that they should have nukes so they'll be safe?
I'll make a guess, now you're going to "compare" it to some US actions, or perhaps Israel? And we won't be discussing that Iran's IRGC probably killed more of their own people "only to feel safe" in 3 days of January protests than Israel did in 3 years of war in Gaza.
Comment by mrkeen 7 hours ago
Comment by spwa4 5 hours ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War#Dispute_...
(but generally start reading from the Stalemate onwards)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_key_to_paradise
"The high death rate for children is indicated by Brigadier General Mohammad-Saleh Jokar, the head the Students Basij, who stated that 36,000 schoolchildren were killed while only 2,853 were injured during the war."
(note: such numbers are only realistic if Iran killed their own wounded children. Let's hope this is not actually true)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_intervention_in_the_Sy...
Iran fighting, for years and years, executing massacres, on the side of Bashar Al Assad.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah%E2%80%93Iran_relatio...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025%E2%80%932026_Iranian_prot...
Note the constant reduction in the death toll (and read the talk page for why the numbers were reduced, along with attempted removals of references to Reza Pahlavi. You see the death toll are western disinformation campaigns, and if you check the people, claimed by people who got warnings for being pro-Russian unfair edits ...)
And they're still adding to the death toll:
Comment by mrkeen 2 hours ago
Comment by jonplackett 19 hours ago
I’m just pointing out that we’re oh so happy to give people who murder gay people weapons and very advanced technology. Because they’re the bad people we like who give us cheap oil.
It’s all just used as a narrative to justify war. Like when we go invade somewhere to promote ‘democracy’ but still give money and power to all the little kingdoms with zero Democracy.
Comment by scheme271 19 hours ago
Trump literally said a day or two ago that if Iran had nukes, he'd treat them a lot nicer and would cozy up to them like with China, Russia, and North Korea. Given that what government wouldn't serious consider obtaining nukes if only as a matter of survival?
Comment by quietsignal 22 hours ago
Comment by mrguyorama 21 hours ago
Then why did Iran discontinue their other WMD programs, like much cheaper and easier to manage chemical weapons programs?
Why is Iran holding back and not targeting Israel's water infrastructure? If they just want to kill everyone they have options right now that they aren't taking.
Why does Iran hold back if they would use a nuke as soon as they get one because they just want to destroy the region?
Iran objectively wants to build a nuke, and has willingly sacrificed everything to do it, but it wouldn't have taken becoming a rogue state and trillions of dollars of GDP to kill Israel to their liking. Other than a nuke, Israel's retaliation options are fairly limited.
Comment by powellc 22 hours ago
Saying Iran is looking destroy the world as a final statement misses the fact that most Western oligarchs are passively OKAY destroying the world, if it means more money and "security" for them today.
Comment by mamonster 22 hours ago
IMO this is kind of bad framing because it suggests that they're the minority in Yemen, when in reality they basically are the government of 70-80% population of Yemen and absorbed 60+ percent of the Yemeni regular army.
They are basically at this point the de-facto Yemeni government
Comment by andriy_koval 22 hours ago
sure, they took this by force while killing those who disagree. Its part of Sunni vs Shia confrontation, and Yemen is majority Sunni.
Comment by tptacek 21 hours ago
Comment by mamonster 19 hours ago
I never said that. The areas they control have about 70-80% of Yemen's population though.
Comment by tptacek 19 hours ago
Comment by jst1fthsdys 18 hours ago
Comment by yieldcrv 22 hours ago
Comment by 737min 22 hours ago
Comment by ClarityJones 22 hours ago
Comment by ihumanable 22 hours ago
Power is taken, and regardless of the ideals of the takers, enough power grants legitimacy.
Comment by kakacik 22 hours ago
Comment by markus_zhang 22 hours ago
Comment by lenkite 22 hours ago
The Syrian President and current Western/Israeli "good boy" - belongs to Hayat Tahrir al-Sham which has committed warcrimes which make the Houthis look like choir boys. He was former Al-Qaeda too with a multi-million dollar bounty. Done an utterly ridiculous number of beheadings, chaining & rape of women, torture, the whole galore of works carried out by a popular ruthless terrorist in a long career.
Now he is fully supported by the US AND the EU.
So, any time, any citizen of a Western nation complains about "war crimes" and wants "regime change", I call them deeply disgusting, sanctimonious hyprocrites. You fellows have lost any and all moral standing to talk about "war crimes".
Comment by ericd 21 hours ago
Comment by lenkite 21 hours ago
I am very much against black and white thinking. But the typical US and even EU liberal citizen is mired in such thinking when it comes to talk about "war crimes and "regime change". If you don't know who in the EU govt decided to back this Syrian President, then I can only facepalm since even as a poor, "low-IQ" third-worlder (according to MAGA folks), I am educated on the same. Please look at Ursula von der Leyen and her €620 million support package.
Yes, I will hold you folks responsible. This is not some "abstract idea" - it is basic, common knowledge and you fellows always, always fall to your media propaganda.
Comment by ericd 18 hours ago
You’re certainly free to hold whoever you want responsible, but I’d argue it’s not a realistic position. And keep in mind that it’s hard for someone living here to have an accurate view of what the average American believes, even harder for someone living outside the country - dominant opinions vary widely between regions of the US. I’m sorry that our government supports war criminals of varying degrees on our behalf, though, would certainly be nice if our leaders were more principled on that front.
Comment by rdm_blackhole 20 hours ago
Your comment reeks of western superiority and exceptionalism.
Its not black and white thinking. It just hypocrisy at the highest level.
The EU does not spend a single day without going around telling anyone and everyone that human rights are very important and that we should do absolutely everything to keep things that way but then turns around and welcomes the head of a (former) terrorist group in Europe.
Even Macron welcomed the guy in Paris even though ISIS killed hundreds of French citizens.
Can anyone then reasonably blame China or India when they continue doing business with Russia? If so why the double standards?
The US and the EU love to criticize other nations but don't mind supporting war criminals and dictators when its suits them and even give them money and/or sell them weapons.
After the Ukraine war ends, I'll bet you you'll see Putin or his successor being invited to cocktail parties in Frankfurt or London, no question about it.
Comment by ericd 19 hours ago
Comment by QuercusMax 22 hours ago
Just trying to see how the compare to the US and Israeli militaries when it comes to war crimes.
Comment by khazhoux 20 hours ago
We’re not talking about Israel’s war crimes, or America’s war crimes, or Japan’s war crimes, or China’s war crimes, or Cambodia’s war crimes, or Germany’s war crimes, or Britain’s, or Armenia’s, or North Korea’s, South Korea’s, Italy’s, or actually any other country’s.
So why do you think we shouldn’t condemn the Houthis?
Comment by adrr 22 hours ago
Edit: Downvote me as much you want doesn't change the facts. the front line fighters for Yemen government is Al Qaeda. It was same thing as Syria which is why we have an Al Qaeda leader as their president.
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2019/02/middleeast/yemen-los...
Comment by mamonster 22 hours ago
Comment by 737min 22 hours ago
Comment by adrr 22 hours ago
Comment by znpy 22 hours ago
Comment by thenayr 22 hours ago
Comment by nekusar 22 hours ago
Comment by ak_111 23 hours ago
Yet MAGA supporters were saying early in the war that they are "plan trusters" as prior US admins sucked at regime change because it is a "skills issue" and none of the prior admins had the triple digits IQ of Hegseth, Trump and Bessent.
Comment by fnordpiglet 22 hours ago
If they were going to try this it needed to be done months earlier when the protests were raging. Instead the brain trust fumbled the initiative and let the Iranian leadership kill and scourge their local allies into compliance. Then fumbling the decapitation strike coupled with the decades of preparation for a decapitation strike (via redundancy of command) the genius brigade seemed to be unaware of because they fired all the experts, and the total repression of the protesting populace, led to an unusually strong system in Iran. They also almost certainly let racism play a big role in underestimating the Iranians, who are a very technically sophisticated society and have been preparing for this scenario since day one of the revolution.
Everything that’s happened was predictable and predicted, which is why other administrations who were more than happy to topple foreign governments when it suited them to not do so in Iran. MAGA feels like the junior dev that blames the compiler for their own syntax errors.
Comment by danisth 23 hours ago
Comment by adrr 22 hours ago
Comment by panny 22 hours ago
I believe this war started with a tomahawk missle murdering a school full of children and then the US denying involvement. I very clearly remember it. US attacks Iran unprovoked. First act, murder their children in school. If you wanted to solidify opposition to the US in Iran, I don't think they could have done a more effective job.
Comment by mythz 22 hours ago
Comment by hn993302 15 hours ago
Some Iranian-Americans are very pro-Shah, particularly the many kicked out during the revolution. They were celebrating the war like it'd bring back the Shah, but frustrated that the US govt and even Western media as a whole ignored the exiled royal family... because that's not the point of the war.
Comment by somenameforme 23 hours ago
Obviously this war has been the US' latest great failure, and at the beckoning of a foreign power which makes it especially catastrophic. If people could focus on this, rather than trying to divide things into teams and then sling mud, they'd have vastly better outcomes come November (and on) than just using it for divisive mudslinging which does nothing but ensure that all elections, regardless of how bad the decisions of a incumbent, or how awful a challenger, will remain these sort of 50/50 coinflips.
Comment by tonmoy 22 hours ago
Comment by hn993302 15 hours ago
Comment by somenameforme 22 hours ago
Comment by bad_haircut72 20 hours ago
Comment by somenameforme 11 hours ago
Comment by leobg 7 hours ago
Comment by arbitrary_name 14 hours ago
that seems like a moronic reason to support a moronic war.
Comment by somenameforme 12 hours ago
The reason people accept, and even defend, all of this is solely because they find "the other side" detestable, and people like our GP here play exactly into this by making themselves completely detestable to anybody that's already not as far out, and in the same direction, on the partisan horseshoe of stupidity as they are.
Comment by ak_111 22 hours ago
Holding people like Hegseth (who literally insider traded defense equities right before the start of the war) and Trump accountable (who practically made a gazillion insider trading each mad meme he posted while the world burnt) is not "dividing people into teams"
Comment by kadoban 22 hours ago
One digit each.
Comment by labrador 22 hours ago
His message to the room was essentially that giving $1 billion to his campaign was a low-cost investment that would guarantee massive financial returns for their companies
Reflection Eternal | Ballad of the Black Gold https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryFMKYNJeTM
This is the ballad of the black gold
They call it Texas tea
But it's bigger than a cowboy with a lasso
It's deeper than a black hole
Create monopolies
Except they collect your fee when you pass Go
Crisis international
The government de facto
We got no control of this fiasco
Darker than the back roads
Bubble hotter than Tabasco
More than what you bargained for or asked forComment by ExoticPearTree 1 day ago
Comment by afavour 1 day ago
Comment by blitzar 1 day ago
Comment by wat10000 23 hours ago
It's funny to see the evolution of language. Quotation marks indicated that something was a direct quote. Then people started to use them as a sarcasm indicator. Now we're to the point where people can't even recognize them as indicating a direct quote.
Comment by tovej 23 hours ago
Israel invades Lebanon due to risk of Hezbollah attacks
rather than:
Israel says "risk of Hezbollah attacks" reason for invasion
Comment by Cyph0n 23 hours ago
“40 beheaded babies” and mass/systematic rape propaganda accepted with zero verification (journalism 101) and, once debunked, zero retractions were made
Hamas-run, but not Likud-run
Condemnation of atrocities by Israel and the US that comes from Israeli and Western voices is given significantly more weight than the same claims coming from Palestinian or Arab voices. After all, the native lacks the capacity to be objective.
Israeli gov statements are taken as undeniable fact, while Palestinian (Gaza or West Bank) gov spokespeople or even Palestinian people in general are barely even platformed
Over-representation of Zionists in editorial teams of every major newspaper and news channel across all Western countries, which (naturally) led to coordinated suppression of any Palestinian voice internally and externally (started to change only relatively recently).
And the list goes on.
Comment by megous 22 hours ago
https://cfmm.org.uk/resource/bbc-on-gaza-israel-one-story-do...
Comment by Cyph0n 20 hours ago
Comment by wat10000 21 hours ago
Comment by Cyph0n 20 hours ago
On the BBC specifically, try reading through their articles, especially from early on, and tell me what the editorial slant is. Yes, most of the content is neatly wrapped in quotation marks, but what picture were they trying to paint?
On UK media in general: https://www.declassifieduk.org/beheaded-babies-how-uk-media-...
My point is that both UK and Western media immediately jumped on and recirculated the claim in the first few days without confirmation. This was just enough to sear the image of beheaded babies into the minds of viewers & readers in the West, helping to justify Israel’s campaign to starve out the “human animals” and raze Gaza (a least in the mind of the avg citizen).
Comment by sanderjd 23 hours ago
I think this was just a stylistic choice and that this whole thread is a weird tangent.
Comment by 59percentmore 23 hours ago
Comment by sanderjd 23 hours ago
But generally, yes, I think cynicism has run amok among the very-online.
Comment by jimbokun 22 hours ago
I believe BBC and other outlets with journalistic standards use quotes when reporting what officials say and only drop the quotes when they have independent verification, like eyewitness reports from one of their own journalists.
Comment by frereubu 23 hours ago
Comment by blitzar 23 hours ago
Iran says Strait of Hormuz is 'open' but tracking shows few ships moving - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwydexp39ddo
Comment by wat10000 23 hours ago
Comment by frereubu 21 hours ago
Comment by wat10000 20 hours ago
I see how it would read as bias if one interprets them as scare quotes, but it really does just mean "this is verbatim" when used here.
Comment by meowface 23 hours ago
Comment by bandofthehawk 22 hours ago
Comment by meowface 15 hours ago
Comment by tovej 9 hours ago
The Epstein stuff is extremely disappointing of course, but his analysis is still quite sober and valid.
Comment by omnicognate 23 hours ago
The BBC's main sin in relation to Trump is sane-washing, treating his bizarre outbursts as if they were reasonable things for a US president to say. Eg. were he to say "I have a solid gold prostate!" they'd have an Anthony Zurcher piece entitled "Is Trump's prostate really made of gold?" with a quote from a doctor saying "while it seems unlikely and would probably be uncomfortable, having a gold prostate would be unlikely to cause any noticeable side effects as the metal is inert" and a discussion of the benefits of replacing a cancer-prone organ with a noble metal.
Comment by jimbokun 22 hours ago
Not reporting on Trump is not an option because his words and actions have huge ramifications for the world.
I think in general the press has gotten much better at just straight up saying that Trump is lying or wrong, as opposed to previous policy of only reporting counter claims from other parties.
Comment by jimbokun 22 hours ago
Comment by huurtehoog 23 hours ago
They are simply reporting what sources have said:
Houthis 'take control' of Perim Island - government source published at 09:00
Houthi rebels have "taken control" of Perim Island in the Bab al-Mandab Strait, according to a source. Earlier, we were reporting that the group had reached the key island.
The AFP news agency also says Houthis have "taken over" Perim Island, also referred to as Mayyun, according to eyewitnesses and a local government official.
"Boats carrying armed Houthi fighters reached Mayyun Island after government forces withdrew from it yesterday," the official tells AFP.
Comment by afavour 22 hours ago
Comment by huurtehoog 21 hours ago
Reporting discourse is different from reporting fact, and I do not know the BBC for reporting unverified discourse or facts.
Comment by nayroclade 1 day ago
Activists decry police murder of protester
Activists decry police "murder" of protester
The first implies that the police murdering the protestor is an established fact. The second makes it clear that it is the activists who used the term "murder" rather than it being a non-contentious fact.
Comment by lkey 1 day ago
Mayor denounces "radical activists" rioting and damaging city property in response to an officer-involved incident that resulted in one fatal kinetic altercation with a "loud and provocatively dressed" man.
Comment by amiga386 23 hours ago
Ah, the past exonerative tense. https://archive.is/wPVdy
Read McSweeney's guide to ambiguous grammar, where they lead you step by step from the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog to the ultimate say-nothing sentence speed was involved in a jumping-related incident while a fox was brown, and the punchline is you can then translate "the St Louis County Police Department was involved in an officer-involved shooting after officers came under heavy gunfire" to "a police officer shot a black person" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Michael_Brown)
https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/an-interactive-guide-to-...
But no, that's the language issued by police departments covering their asses. Journalists are a little bit covering their asses in making clear what is a quote and what isn't, but they're still responsible for what they choose to quote, and to be clear on whether they have verified the claims they're quoting.
Ideally, unverified claims shouldn't even be in an article. But when there _has_ been some kind of stramash, they just don't know who did what, the need to rush out an article to get clicks means they'll just quote both sides and try to give them equal prominence until they can do more verification.
Comment by ratelimitsteve 23 hours ago
oh like this article that says a child was hit by a "LAPD bullet" as though wild bullets roam the streets of LA looking for children instead of being fired from a gun by a person who made a decision.
Comment by jimbokun 22 hours ago
It's generally police officials that use that terminology.
Comment by dylan604 23 hours ago
Comment by JoshTriplett 1 day ago
Comment by gowld 1 day ago
Comment by vanschelven 1 day ago
Comment by jihadjihad 1 day ago
Comment by nkoren 1 day ago
tl;dr: two countries, divided by a common language.
Comment by gobip 1 day ago
It is not about the quotes being verified or unverified. It is about something said by somebody, that you are reporting.
Comment by cake-rusk 23 hours ago
Comment by jameshart 1 day ago
If you’re reporting that “Government sources say Houthis have ‘taken control’ of an island” then the fact that government sources used the words ‘taken control’ is itself interesting.
The headlines “Russia ‘will be defeated’ in Ukraine says Zelensky”, “Russia ‘will be defeated’ in Ukraine says Putin”, and “Russia ‘will be defeated’ in Ukraine says Taylor Swift” all tell of vastly different news events.
Comment by shawnz 1 day ago
Comment by petesergeant 23 hours ago
Comment by shawnz 14 hours ago
Comment by jimbokun 22 hours ago
Comment by cynix 1 day ago
Comment by NDlurker 1 day ago
Comment by qw12kl 1 day ago
Comment by pessimizer 1 day ago
That single quoted phrase was set in the context of other words, and that context defined its meaning. We know this to an extent that almost no one could have imagined since LLMs have become a huge part of the world.
My favorite example of this is how no article in Britain during Corbyn's leadership of the labor party would ever quote an entire sentence that he had said. Thousands of articles, and the quotes were all fragmentary phrases and lone words framed in editorial.
edit: Brits and the BBC especially do this more than most, likely because of their bizarre libel laws (that were once even worse than they are now.)
Comment by kevmo 1 day ago
Comment by consumer451 1 day ago
Comment by kevmo 1 day ago
Comment by carlosjobim 1 day ago
Comment by bcjdjsndon 1 day ago
Comment by carlosjobim 1 day ago
> actually verifying the truth
That's the job of the reader, not the journalist. Unless you're living under oppression. So you have misunderstood the purpose of reporting.
Comment by joejohnson 1 day ago