DHS 'Predictive Policing' Unit Is Analyzing Americans' Financial Habits
Posted by abraham 1 hour ago
Comments
Comment by m4ck_ 20 minutes ago
Comment by scarecrowbob 42 minutes ago
It's likely projection on my part but I have a deep suspicion that people understand that mass surveillance by the state is the main use case for all these LLMs, camera systems, and increasing large data centers.
That certainly is my own worry, at least.
Comment by MomsAVoxell 1 minute ago
Its not mass surveillance by the state, exclusively.
Its also the potential for mis-use and corruption by criminal networks.
Plus, there's that whole degradation of culture factor. Sure, you trust your government today. But do you trust the government of tomorrow?
Anyone who thinks this is misguided is probably seeking to profit from it at some point.
And that is precisely the problem.
Comment by throwway120385 6 minutes ago
Comment by someothherguyy 1 hour ago
https://www.aviatorgear.com/p-52057-laredo-sector-tech-ops-p...
Comment by sfdlkj3jk342a 58 minutes ago
Comment by charlieyu1 55 minutes ago
Comment by sofixa 45 minutes ago
Comment by newspaper1 27 minutes ago
Comment by mistrial9 34 minutes ago
It reminds me of a time when credit and credit cards were flying fast. Large losses started appearing on consumer credit accounts by the tens of thousands. A casual look into it indicated that it was the employees and leaders of the sector, who read and understood the credit agreement that put liability ultimately on the company. The actual credit card employees, adjacent accountants, quick witted cons, all siphoning money from credit cards in very large numbers. Why say this? Actual customers with increasing security requirements were largely not at all involved with the growing fraud. It was the participants in the credit industry seizing the opportunity to steal, with relative impunity. Things have changed and changed again since then with scale, local rules, fraud detection systems etc.
The point of the rant is that ordinary people's rights are squeezed, privacy vanishes, routine humiliating document production and security, required because the people in the industry that created those is cheating.
Yes of course there is cheating on taxes over tip money, or no-show jobs for relatives.. but what kind of society is being built with constant oversight into ordinary people's activity ?
cash indeed
Comment by zmgsabst 34 minutes ago
Comment by HighGoldstein 15 minutes ago
Source? The fact that it's not infallible doesn't mean that it's ineffective.
Comment by Borealid 43 minutes ago
I think the intellectual position "it should be illegal for institutions transmitting money between two parties to identify either of those parties" might require some kind of logical argument behind it. Are you saying all financial transactions should be anonmyous by law? How would banks function if they were required to be blind to their customers? How would the government prosecute money laundering if all cash-trails went cold after the first time they passed a bank?
I understand people often like to express extreme positions on the Internet, but I think it's pretty easy to see an ideal society has rules somewhere in between "you're not allowed to know your customers" and "you can't accept a penny unless the giver does a blood draw in front of you and is confirmed to be in a central register of DNA".
Comment by nostrademons 7 minutes ago
Arguments against KYC usually go hand-in-hand with the belief that AML statutes are a constitutional overreach and grant the federal government powers that they should not have. The logic is that the government's only role is to provide a stable currency and enforce contracts, and that anything else is involving the government in business that it has no business being in. What's done between two consenting parties should remain between two consenting parties.
Note that such a position usually doesn't have a problem with banks having information on their customers, for the purpose of judging credit risks. But it holds that such information should only be used for judging credit risks, ie if you are just depositing and withdrawing money that has already been earned, the bank should be agnostic to this. And they also object to this information being shared with a central clearinghouse where it can be used to cut off all access to the banking system rather than just one specific bank who objects to the source of funds.
Comment by pjc50 26 minutes ago
Yeah. This often results in ludicrous positions.
On the other hand, EFT flattens scale. Physical cash gets harder to handle in large quantities. Electronic money does not. It's equally easy to transfer a billion as a cent. So it's hard to get situations where small amounts have privacy and large amounts have scrutiny.
Comment by lkt 31 minutes ago
Comment by antonvs 27 minutes ago
There is much more to it than that. If that were all KYC was, it wouldn't need regulations, because banks would need to do it anyway.
I've had banks straight out ask me, on the phone, what a wire transfer that I executed via their online system was for. And unlike, say, a traffic stop where when the cop starts fishing for things unrelated to the stop, you can exercise your right to remain silent, in the banking scenario the consequences for that can be losing access to your account, losing funds, and everything that follows from that.
Some of the info required by KYC:
* Why the customer wants an account
* Expected types of transactions
* Expected source and approximate volume of funds
* For businesses, the nature of the business and expected banking activity
* Source of funds
This can all translate into very invasive questions, especially when you do something that a computer system or middle manager thinks is suspicious, like sending money to your mother in another country.
Comment by zmgsabst 35 minutes ago
Though if I were going to rant, it would be about how constructive surveillance, such as requiring banks keep certain records and then claiming those records aren’t protected from search because they’re third party business records and not those of a private citizen, would be a much higher priority to fix.
Comment by logicchains 34 minutes ago
Any such kind of regulation is not compatible with financial privacy. Maybe you could argue corporations don't deserve financial privacy, but an individual should have the right to send money to someone without being spied on the same way they should have the right to send a private communication to someone without being spied on.
Comment by Triphibian 24 minutes ago
Comment by polskibus 1 hour ago
Comment by buellerbueller 1 hour ago
Comment by lbrito 58 minutes ago
Comment by clumsysmurf 29 minutes ago
> It is not clear how exactly Border Patrol is monitoring Americans’ financial activity.
Can anyone take a guess how they are monitoring financial activity?
Comment by eloisius 22 minutes ago
Comment by politician 8 minutes ago
Do you not realize that all countries monitor capital movement so that, for example, the rulings of their judiciaries are enforced?
Comment by Havoc 33 minutes ago
Comment by carpe171 54 minutes ago
Comment by madaxe_again 36 minutes ago
I’ve been under investigation for money laundering twice in the last three years - not because I’ve laundered a single dime, but because I have no discernible employment and move large capital sums around the globe almost constantly, and my bank accounts and tax returns inarguably look fucking weird. All 100% above board - I just made some good investments a while back.
I even had the feds come knocking because they decided they needed to check I wasn’t trafficking narcotics. We had a nice chat, they decided they didn’t need to search the place, and six months later I got a letter confirming the case had been archived. Like one of the folks in the article, I had weed on me when they rocked up. Thankfully, in Europe, that’s basically just a “shrug” by law enforcement, unless you’ve got clear intent to distribute. From how it all went, they had quite clearly decided this was a waste of their fucking time before they even arrived.
None of this is a good thing, and none of it is terribly new, either - reporting on finances has been going on for decades, but the integration is getting tighter.
The main problem as I see it is that it has a horrendous false positive rate, and you end up with innocent folks like yours truly having to waste their time and energy proving that they are innocent of a crime that a machine dreamt up.
Comment by tiahura 17 minutes ago
Comment by righthand 39 minutes ago
Deny, Defund, Depose the federal terrorist groups: DHS, ICE, CBP, PITT etc.
Comment by cucumber3732842 59 minutes ago
Everyone's head was too far up their asses to look at the magic crystal ball called "history" and realize that such systems and tactics would be used to go after <checks notes> weed dealers and brown people.
Be careful what you wish for I guess.
Comment by antonvs 21 minutes ago
Comment by buellerbueller 1 hour ago
Comment by 0xdeadbeefbabe 59 minutes ago
Comment by buellerbueller 57 minutes ago
Comment by boothby 51 minutes ago
Whilst talking about the downvotes is uninteresting I will give in to the urge to observe that -4 is the lowest a comment can go. But sneering at the community is also against the guidelines, so a comment like this will attract flags by people who actually agree with you.
Comment by buellerbueller 49 minutes ago
But good to know that -4 is rock bottom.
If a community prevents you from sneering at fascism, that community is a problem.
Comment by toomuchtodo 48 minutes ago
Comment by tiahura 1 hour ago
Seems reasonable and not newsworthy.
Comment by siliconc0w 1 hour ago
Comment by iAMkenough 44 minutes ago
Seems like there's no way to administer this warrantless surveillance without violating the Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
Comment by toomuchtodo 1 hour ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction
https://www.nacdl.org/Media/Parallel-Construction-Discover-G...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Give_me_the_man_and_I_will_giv...
Comment by buellerbueller 1 hour ago