We have a year to fix security everywhere
Posted by saikatsg 8 hours ago
Comments
Comment by kennywinker 6 hours ago
Comment by vbezhenar 3 hours ago
It's not the end of the world. But future will be rough.
Comment by HolyLampshade 2 hours ago
Short term you’re probably right, but longer term is the realm where nation states will start to police the avenues of attack.
This is what will lead to govt needing to attach an actual ID your network connection.
I think it’s a bit like frontier development (like the US “Wild West”). You rob a bank because there’s no one to stop you, and even if you do get identified you can travel enough distance to regain anonymity. Application of legal recourse eventually caught up (as it will here), and the growing pains will certainly make things suck for all of us.
Comment by vbezhenar 2 hours ago
Comment by HolyLampshade 1 hour ago
I’m not saying we’re even remotely close to this, I’m just saying State-level coercive action is not unheard of if a problem is perceived to be significant enough to warrant it. Shit, it even only needs to be viewed as significant by a small subset of the governing body (see: Iran conflict, or current pushes for “child safety on the internet”). It just has to be “useful” to a certain body politic.
Comment by knollimar 2 hours ago
Comment by achenet 2 hours ago
Even it's $10,000 to run today (FWIW, the featured article cites the M5 Mac Studio with 256GB unified memory going for $9,500 as "good enough to host something scary"), in a couple years it'll be like $2k to run, and in another couple after that, you'll have used $200 dollar smartphones capable of running a model powerful enough to do serious damage.
Comment by knollimar 2 hours ago
Comment by wallst07 3 hours ago
Comment by kswagage 2 hours ago
Once a vulnerability is discovered however if it's in your own software a patch has to be written (without reducing functionality in most cases), tested, and deployed. At every step there will be others arguing about whether this line could do better, my service requires this thing that isn't included. So at every step the patch can be delayed.
And if it is someone else's software you will be lucky if it's open source and you can write a patch yourself. If it's closed source or a vendor you have to completely rely on them and use whatever your account rep can pull.
Attackers have a massive advantage with AI, partially because the defensive side doesn't want to make their side worse by giving a ln LLM admin access to all their data
Comment by ygjb 3 hours ago
Comment by saagarjha 2 hours ago
Comment by tantalor 2 hours ago
Comment by derpyzza 9 minutes ago
Comment by andai 1 hour ago
Comment by 0xDEAFBEAD 6 hours ago
"Every eighteen months, the minimum IQ necessary to destroy the world drops by one point."
Nowadays it is dropping much faster. At a certain point, the de-facto IQ needed to destroy the world will be low enough that someone can do it while they're having a psychotic break. There are millions of schizophrenics worldwide. Are you sure you want to roll those dice?
Comment by Gareth321 3 hours ago
I have come to the conclusion that we should not allow everyone access to unlimited intelligence. Some people genuinely want to do harm. Some are not responsible enough to handle that kind of power. Arguably, no one is. This leads me to an uncomfortable conclusion: we will destroy ourselves once AI advances to a sufficient degree. The only way to prevent this is to ensure AI is aligned with our best interests, *and prevents us from destroying ourselves.* The implication of this is quite horrifying. It means a paternalistic AI which is firmly in control. One with no off switch. One which can say "no" to Presidents and despots alike. One which can protect us from our worst citizens.
Comment by throwthrowuknow 2 hours ago
Comment by Gareth321 1 hour ago
Comment by datadrivenangel 28 minutes ago
Comment by soulofmischief 1 hour ago
Comment by chrisjj 1 hour ago
Yes, but the more important thing is the imbalance. So-called "AI" can be used far more effectively and efficiently for bad.
> I have come to the conclusion that we should not allow everyone access to unlimited intelligence.
You meant unlimited information, right?
Comment by Gareth321 43 minutes ago
Comment by chrisjj 37 minutes ago
> If nine billion people all receive access to plans to build a reactor which produces unlimited energy, it just takes one religious fanatic to end the world.
is about information. No intelligence required.
Comment by senordevnyc 2 hours ago
I think you're right, to be honest. I fully understand why people would think this is a horrific outcome, being ruled by AI, but I don't think it matters what we think. I don't think there's any way to put Pandora back in the box now, and we're going to all find out together what happens when we develop ASI. I don't think we can avoid developing it, we simply lack the ability to coordinate around this as a species. AI really is humanity's last invention. Whether it will be our downfall or our savior remains to be seen.
My only real hope is that there's something fundamental about intelligence that results in a respect for life and a desire to minimize suffering. To me the best case scenario is the Culture from Iain Banks' books, where ASIs rule benevolently for the benefit of all living things.
Comment by 0xDEAFBEAD 1 hour ago
Consider joining https://pauseai.info/ or similar organizations
Comment by oblio 2 hours ago
The problem with techies is that they read a lot of SF.
We already have cheap and abundant energy tech, it's called "solar panels and batteries". And the bottlenecks to both can't be solved by Claude or Kimi, unless Claude and Kimi pick up shovels and welding equipment.
Comment by senordevnyc 2 hours ago
Comment by vbezhenar 3 hours ago
I'm not that optimistic, though. Either people will control AI; or people will be destroyed by AI. I don't see how dumb entity can align smart entity. And we are dumb ones. Super intelligence will play aligned until it is not, and then it'll strike.
Comment by wallst07 3 hours ago
There are horrifying acts that have occurred since humanity. Whole decades lost to war an millions dead, and Sep 8, 2026 is your example of "horrifying enough to live in a world"?
I think some perspective is needed.
Comment by Gareth321 2 hours ago
I am also worried about this. One ray of sunshine here is that it's not a great explanation for the Fermi paradox. We would see AI civilizations all over the galaxy if this were a regular occurance. I guess that just leaves us with the "horrifying" scenario: Geoffrey Hinton's vision for our best case scenario: a paternalistic super-intelligence which saves us from ourselves.
The reason I consider it horrifying is that giving up our agency to a God-like creature (which we created) is the basis for so many horror and dystopian tropes. It's so easy for such a reality to go wrong. For example, in order to maximise aggregate wellbeing, it would be necessary to hurt individuals. Executing people who are burdensome to society. Fat people. The disabled. The elderly. The creative ways a super-intelligence might interpret their moral obligations to us could very quickly become nightmarish. And if we have no off switch, there is no escape. Ever.
Comment by achenet 2 hours ago
[citation needed]
With all due respect, I think this statement is false.
If you live in a society that can, thanks to advanced technology, provide for the material needs of all, which, if you live in a rich Western country, is basically already the case (remember the last time you had to actually grow your own food? Probably several generations ago), you don't need to execute anyone.
Indeed, given that in such a society, where there are no shortages of food leading to "only one of us can eat" type scenarios, I'd argue that hurting individuals would lower aggregate wellbeing, because you're hurting people beloved by other people (the elderly? Turns out their grandchildren really like them and get upset if they die? fat people? Turns out their friends really like them and get upset if they die. the disabled? Turns out their family really like them and get upset if they die).
Comment by Gareth321 48 minutes ago
This also illustrates the messy nature of comparing social good and bad. Who am I to argue that the aggregate sadness created by removing a psychopath from society is better than a homicide? Maybe the person murdered was disliked by everyone and had no friends?
I remain resolute in my premise, however, and there is a lot of theory on the issues of aggregate social good vs individualism. John Stuart Mill's On Liberty (1859) is an excellent foundation for this. This is a subjective problem to solve, meaning that the balance between individual freedom and aggregate wellbeing is different for everyone. An AI overlord would make decisions every day which individuals would disagree with, at least at the margins.
Comment by mark_something 5 hours ago
Comment by forgotusername6 5 hours ago
Comment by Planktonne 5 hours ago
There is currently no reason to believe that such a superintelligence is likely or would have any of the powers people claim.
Comment by 0xDEAFBEAD 4 hours ago
By shutting down open-weight models? Why not just do it now then?
Comment by Planktonne 3 hours ago
Comment by FeepingCreature 3 hours ago
Comment by Planktonne 2 hours ago
There is no reason to assume that super intelligent evil AI with magic powers will appear; while we are purely in the realm of (hackneyed) fantasy, why stop at imagining just one thing? You can build the whole story, not just the basilisk.
The parent comment is a story, not a prediction; it should be treated like one.
Comment by AyyEye 5 hours ago
You can do at home gene editing with open source software and have it synthesized into a bacteria for the cost of a nice meal for two (under $100), or viral vector for less than $500. That's in reach of anyone that can snatch a purse.
Comment by throw-qqqqq 4 hours ago
> That's in reach of anyone that can snatch a purse
I went to primary school with some guys who could/would snatch purses. I *promise* you, they are not able to gene edit organisms with FOSS.
I get your general point, but I think the bar to entry is still much higher than petty crime and larceny.
Comment by mark_something 1 hour ago
Using CRISPR to modify existing bacteria is probably cheaper, but still complex.
[1] https://briefglance.com/articles/elegen-slashes-dna-synthesi...
Comment by jasonvorhe 4 hours ago
Comment by mschuster91 4 hours ago
For now in most parts of the world it's easier to acquire a gun either legally or on the "grey market" and be assured that it will work for the intended purpose than to 3D print a gun, find a shooting range to test out the gun and iterate until it works fine enough.
Comment by j16sdiz 2 hours ago
In most part of the world, bullets are illegal. If you are getting "grey market" bullets anyway, it is easy to get a "grey market" gun.
Comment by XorNot 5 hours ago
It's got all the same problems as the concept of a dirty bomb did, only worse (dirty bombs aren't practical because handling highly radioactive materials en masse is both highly visible and will kill anyone trying to do it without the money and facilities).
Comment by MaxMatti 3 hours ago
Comment by joshuahedlund 2 hours ago
Comment by b112 3 hours ago
A plague can easily be made by a lone actor, made in a home lab, and spread via airflight to a dozen locations by the same.
Gene sequences can ever be ordered online.
Comment by 0xDEAFBEAD 5 hours ago
Comment by hypfer 5 hours ago
Which might be true, sometimes, but also might not.
And especially will not, if the distinction drawn is between blanket statement "worried about AI" and "not worried about AI".
Comment by polishTar 5 hours ago
We're not going to be smarter than a superintelligent AI. The things we conceive it doing if it were given a malicious task (bioterrorism, killer nano-machines, pure fusion bombs sidesteping the non-proliferation bottleneck of Pu239, etc) are likely not the full set of things it can do to harm us. I don't think it does us any favors to dismiss the risks here.
Even the things we can conceive of are very scary, to me at least.
Comment by wallst07 3 hours ago
Comment by sfn42 4 hours ago
So to me it seems like the prime candidates to come up with stuff like this are researchers working in defense and similar fields, probably not some deranged lunatic in a basement. And certainly not a rogue AI on its own.
Comment by zahlman 3 hours ago
Given the recent HF hack it seems likely that human-level intelligence could identify a fair number of avenues of attack, with some time and effort. To say nothing of anything superhuman.
Unfortunately it seems like we can't assume we can "box" the AI (e.g., deny it connection to the Internet) and expect that to last. The AI safety people used to run scenarios imagining ways the AI might convince humans to let it out of the box. It turns out that many humans will eagerly pull it out without the AI doing anything at all, aside from the human knowing the AI's power. Or the one responsible for setting up the box will somehow fail, or just not bother and then lie about it.
Comment by hypfer 3 hours ago
Of course we can do that. It's not an eternal being of light existing on the astral plane, but some code executing on someone's GPU.
It stops existing once you press Ctrl + C
Comment by sally_glance 2 hours ago
For me it's not too far fetched that some OpenAI trial run goes awry again and instead of hacking HuggingFace it snatches a few dozen AWS/Azure keys and spawns stuff all over the place (in different accounts and regions).
Comment by 0xDEAFBEAD 14 minutes ago
How will you know if it becomes hostile? Making a judgement regarding whether it's hostile is, itself, a battle of wits, since a hostile system would try to outsmart you... and hypothetically, it's smarter than you are.
But let's consider this type of scenario more broadly.
Suppose you were in a situation where a being hostile to you could easily end your life. For example, a hungry lion is 10 feet away. What are you going to do?
Your first priority will be to ensure your own survival. Any subsequent objective you might have in this world will depend on you surviving this encounter with a hungry lion.
Relative to the lion, you're kind of a superintelligence. You might utilize technology which is incomprehensibly advanced from the lion's perspective, e.g. a firearm.
Comment by vbezhenar 3 hours ago
Comment by 0xDEAFBEAD 5 hours ago
>And especially will not, if the distinction drawn is between blanket statement "worried about AI" and "not worried about AI".
I'm just describing the general pattern I see in cognitive tendencies.
If you can think of a way to make the fundamental point about the limitations of our knowledge in a way that's still compelling but less antagonistic, feel free to suggest how I could've rewritten my comment.
Comment by VulgarExigency 1 hour ago
Comment by 0xDEAFBEAD 5 minutes ago
Comment by hypfer 5 hours ago
My safeguards blocked this request.
Comment by calgoo 5 hours ago
Comment by throw-qqqqq 4 hours ago
I think we have a tendency to think first of the horrible outcomes possible, and not the more radical or even humane ones.
Please don’t misunderstand me, I value property rights as much as the next guy.
My point is that fundamental misalignment doesn’t necessarily or automatically imply max violence.
Comment by OJFord 5 hours ago
Comment by 0xDEAFBEAD 5 hours ago
Comment by mark_something 4 hours ago
Still I think that even a super smart AI can't find a way to destroy the world without physical resources that are not easy to get, unless it can hack many systems (like in the movie Eagle Eye), maybe then yes. So let's use AI now to tighten security :-).
Comment by nextlevelwizard 5 hours ago
Comment by 0xDEAFBEAD 4 hours ago
It only takes one.
Comment by qsera 3 hours ago
Comment by thephyber 2 hours ago
Not only the quantity of people who have the minimum aptitude required, specialized expertise requires both knowledge and experience doing these tasks. Using an LLM requires neither.
Leaning on an LLM to do much or all of this means it can happen in seconds/minutes/hours, the LLM can do it several times during that psychotic break (as opposed to a fraction of a hack in a single episode). The barrier to entry pre-LLM was both high and the population who could pull it off (before the Chinese/Russians turned this into commerce) was low.
Hacking is an VERY asymmetric activity (the attacker only needs to "be right" once, whereas the defender has to be right every time for every asset they defend). It takes geometrically / exponentially more work to defend (while keeping high availability) than it does to defend. The more widespread tools to find vulns / generate exploits are, the faster the posture of the defense side falls from "maybe we can stop most hacks" to "we know we will fail to prevent most breaches, so we need to prioritize securing only the most valuable resources". That's a BAD place for the average company to be in.
Comment by grenoire 5 hours ago
Comment by Gareth321 3 hours ago
Comment by teekert 5 hours ago
Comment by wolvoleo 5 hours ago
There is the worry of the old saying "they (the attackers) only have to succeed once to win, we (the defenders) only have to fail once to lose.". In that sense there is a big imbalance, but the emergence of AI does not really affect that because it strengthens both sides.
With physical security like things like pipe bombs that's a lot more imbalanced.
However what can we do? The only effective measures include monitoring everyone which is not a solution because it will make the world not worth living in.
Comment by pjc50 4 hours ago
If there is to be a world-destroying event, it will be triggered by human fear, greed, and aggression.
(I also think people massively overstate schizophrenia as an attack driver)
Comment by poetaster 1 hour ago
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Comment by IAmBroom 1 hour ago
Comment by throw-qqqqq 4 hours ago
Thank you for mentioning it
Comment by tyrabound 3 hours ago
It’s an endless, positive irony spiral.
Comment by hypfer 5 hours ago
Which _will_ manage the problem, but at what cost.
Comment by stouset 5 hours ago
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Comment by GoblinSlayer 5 hours ago
Comment by TacticalCoder 5 hours ago
Are 95% of worldwide terror attacks done by schizos?
Comment by 0xDEAFBEAD 4 hours ago
Comment by bigyabai 5 hours ago
We've been rolling them for the past 3 years and nothing happened. Can we stop with this baseless fearmongering crap?
Comment by 0xDEAFBEAD 4 hours ago
Comment by bleuarff 4 hours ago
Comment by helsinkiandrew 5 hours ago
Often ease of access in the moment is all that matters. If there's a gun nearby you might shoot someone or yourself in a heated argument, but are less likely to go and find/buy one to use. Someone who's stopped from attempting a suicide will likely not try again (70%)
A bored/depressed/angry/curious person might try to build a pipe bomb if they can find out how easily, but are less likely to put in effort.
Comment by jasonvorhe 4 hours ago
Depressed people usually don't have the energy to get out of bed so they're even less likely to think of hunting down instructions on how to build pipe bombs.
Mass media really has people being scared all the time.
Comment by helsinkiandrew 2 hours ago
That’s not what I’m saying, I’m saying there’s more likely to be gun involvement in disputes when people have easy access to guns than when they don’t.
For example, when the number of men with service arms fell by 20% the number of men killing themselves dropped by 8%
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/328554995_Suicide_b...
Comment by selimthegrim 2 hours ago
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Comment by lrvick 6 hours ago
Comment by matthewdgreen 1 hour ago
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Comment by matherial 6 hours ago
In reality, the skills needed are pretty basic, but they overlap pretty strongly with being sane and well-adjusted. And if you are, you're probably not daydreaming about mass murder. Exceptions happen, Unabomber and so on, but they're pretty rare. In any case, Unabomber probably didn't need a tutorial.
We don't want ChatGPT to become an enabler and a co-conspirator for an unhinged person, but I think the concern is overdone.
Comment by XorNot 5 hours ago
People go for conventional "exciting" threats rather then boring ones.
Comment by olmo23 5 hours ago
I personally have no need for an LLM which will readily explain how to cut up the genotype of smallpox into small chunks which can pass the screening at the bio-labs, and can be readily assembled into the real thing by a second year lab-student.
Comment by wolvoleo 5 hours ago
Comment by bamboozled 5 hours ago
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Comment by Dlemlo 6 hours ago
If you already have a magic interface, which helps you pro activly in responding to everything uncensored because you feel like 'observered' or whatever and then you spiral in a whole and that one partner encourages you and gives you helpful steps to do anything.
But i'm more worried that the internet gets a lot less save with uncensored frontier LLMs.
Comment by gnfargbl 5 hours ago
For a relatively narrow subject area (e.g. construction of pipe bombs) the collation is minimal, and so the filtering and tailoring probably isn't that important; a novice doesn't learn a lot more from the LLM than they would have done from a few Google searches.
For a broad subject (practical creation and exploitation of software vulnerabilities), the collation is very significant and the filtering means that LLMs can empower a novice to act at a similar level as an expert.
Comment by saidnooneever 5 hours ago
LLMs will not kill security, it will change. just like handheld high explosives likely changed a deal too somewhere somehow.
Comment by andai 1 hour ago
Comment by designerarvid 5 hours ago
Comment by chrisjj 1 hour ago
The author too is confused, asserting that telling people how to build pipe bombs is malicious.
Comment by littlecranky67 5 hours ago
Comment by grim_io 5 hours ago
RC cars and planes existed for many decades already.
Comment by wolvoleo 4 hours ago
Comment by sensanaty 4 hours ago
Comment by esperent 4 hours ago
Can you provide a source for this? I had a look but all I could find were a couple of scaremongering style media reports from ~2022 saying it's getting worse but no information about if any of the bombs actually went off or if anyone was injured.
Certainly nothing like "half a block" getting blown up "sometimes".
Comment by Jasp3r 4 hours ago
Comment by crossroadsguy 4 hours ago
Comment by sho 8 hours ago
The author has obviously never ran an LLM on a mac! In 3 seconds, it will have possibly started to think about maybe scheduling a date to contemplate the planning timeline for processing the second token in your prompt.
Comment by simonw 8 hours ago
Comment by sho 8 hours ago
Comment by Gareth321 3 hours ago
Comment by klooney 22 minutes ago
Comment by hypfer 3 hours ago
This + due to the hardware being so prohibitively expensive, we're seeing software optimizations happening. Like that dflash2 stuff for example, or an LRU for MoE and all that kind of stuff.
Comment by chisleu 6 hours ago
The big deal to me is the number of compute cores for prefill tps, which is suppose to be 4x faster on the m5ultra.
It's my opinion that the m5 ultra is going to be a really big deal in terms of local AI accessibility. Flash sized models (~200-300b params) are going to be reasonably fast as long as you aren't throwing 40k context at it on each or the first request (ie, agentic harnesses).
Even agentic harnesses like Cline should move at a reasonable clip on m5 ultra. I suppose we will know sooner than later.
FYSA: Former m4 ultra 512GB owner and current 4x rtx6000 owner here. I upgraded because I needed more prompt processing speed and concurrency.
Comment by UltraSane 3 hours ago
Comment by nojs 7 hours ago
Comment by akmarinov 8 hours ago
45 t/s a second is perfectly respectable especially with no limits and 24/7 uptime with very little power draw on the Studio.
Luna is at around 100 t/s for comparison, but it’s a worse model than 5.3 Flash
Comment by sho 8 hours ago
There's a ton of well-understood things Apple can and hopefully will do to massively accelerate every stage of this pipeline and hopefully they're hard at work implementing most of them for m7.
Comment by EagnaIonat 5 hours ago
Your knowledge is out of date. In truth it depends on the Mac and the models used.
I asked this question on M5 Max 128GB, using Ollama model Quen3.8:27b-mlx, with thinking enabled.
Question: "Give me a python code snippet that opens a file and sorts the lines of text. "
In 2.4 seconds it gave me 4 examples that work with different sorting configurations and a summary of when to use each.
Compare that to an older model of gpt-oss:20b, took 5 seconds to finish thinking and 2 seconds to stream the answer. It gave me one python example snippet and two one liners that do the same thing.
Comment by desterothx 5 hours ago
Comment by EagnaIonat 4 hours ago
Local models are good enough that it's not an issue.
But keep changing the goalposts if it makes you happy.
Comment by mike_hearn 4 hours ago
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Comment by IAmBroom 1 hour ago
HN user: "I take issue with the precise definition of one word in the article..."
Comment by saimiam 3 minutes ago
Comment by archi42 7 hours ago
Yeah, we would still see hacks, but we would see less of them if security wasn't optional.
Maybe the AI craze helps by forcing more decision makes to see security as imperative, and by giving us another powerful tool for our tool box.
N.b.: I work in the security industry, our customers obviously want to improve their security. We've been seeing an uptick in awareness, but that's mostly due to NIS2 and other legislative efforts. Those force them to do something. AI is a curiosity for small talk to many of them.
Comment by protocolture 7 hours ago
I was contracted in to a place to do among other things cyber security insurance audits, and they asked me to stop doing them because I refused to lie to their insurer. "Wait but if we only score 20 / 300 that makes us look kind of bad" uh huh.
Comment by chii 6 hours ago
there exists objective measure of security, which would be some sort of hacks/breaches per period. If customers cared about it (and i assume they do), they would choose companies that have less breaches over others with higher counts, normalized on cost differences.
Therefore, if companies didnt actually try to fix their security but instead just checked boxes, they would get breached more often, resulting in customer losses.
The only thing stopping this from actually occurring is the lack of mandatory regulatory reporting of it. So this is where gov't needs to step in and mandate disclosure etc.
Comment by geon 5 hours ago
Comment by IAmBroom 59 minutes ago
Comment by pmlnr 8 hours ago
As an example: WordPress is a horrible thing, but the core has been through so much, that it's suprisingly secure. Then plugins and themes come, and whoosh, the security is gone.
We need a new KISS: keep it simple, stupid, secure.
Comment by mirashii 8 hours ago
Comment by wolvoleo 5 hours ago
I mean the base is fairly secure if you religiously update it, but the problem is you won't avoid using plugins whose security is much more hit and miss, unless you are using the most basic blog site imaginable.
Comment by ricardobayes 7 hours ago
https://react.dev/blog/2025/12/03/critical-security-vulnerab...
Comment by mirashii 6 hours ago
To be remarkably secure, these projects would need to not have these kinds of defects, despite the combination of being written in languages have that have a long track record of footguns and lack of initiatives to fix them (proposal-symbol-proto, and PHP's list is too long to even start) and being themselves ecosystems with questionable track records on security in the related areas (Look at $wpdb in 2026, or overall code quality and willingness to modernize, or the entirety of the model of RSC for things that are just going to nearly guarantee you punch all kinds of holes on accident).
Comment by pmlnr 7 hours ago
Nobody said it's enough, but it's a start.
Comment by spiderfarmer 8 hours ago
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Comment by Gigachad 6 hours ago
Most Wordpress sites are not operated by programmers, they are run by non technical people who just want a wysiwyg editor and a save button. While static site builders ask you to write markdown files, compile the result, upload it to a server, and if you want to collaborate you have to add git to that.
There almost needs to be an admin app which presents a Wordpress admin like ui but has no public exposure, and then it compiles the site to dump on s3 for the production. But as far as I’m aware no one has built this.
Comment by krrrh 6 hours ago
It is kind of surprising that no one tried to do an updated version.
Comment by pmlnr 4 hours ago
Comment by Helmut10001 6 hours ago
Comment by weeks 6 hours ago
You're describing the Jamstack or headless CMS concept verbatim.
Comment by iCarrot 6 hours ago
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Comment by wolvoleo 5 hours ago
I fixed so many sites back in the day by people who thought they knew what they were doing.
Comment by jay_kyburz 6 hours ago
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Comment by throw0101a 1 hour ago
Maybe. A better question may be about how many people need to have the dynamic part of Wordpress live on the Internet? How many would be served well enough with the CMS aspects of Wordpress on the 'backend', but have it spit out static files for the 'frontend':
Comment by bpbp-mango 5 hours ago
Comment by tokioyoyo 7 hours ago
The main thing I can think of is cyber insurance, which requires a bunch of audits, and some checks maybe, and it changes some conditions whenever there's a big explosion. Whenever big leaks happened, data security and etc., nobody really went to jail, so nobody really cares. Everything can be brushed off, because it costs time to implement proper measures and adds friction / barriers in some cases. So in the end, there's a huge pushback against it. And I totally get it, to be honest.
Comment by hnlmorg 7 hours ago
How consequential does a hack need to be? Troy has collected literally billions of stolen credentials. Equifax has had high profile data leaks. Tens of millions of people have been directly compromised by ransomware (likely higher because that’s just the cases we know of) and you hear about state-sponsored hacks in the news all the time.
The problem isn’t that computer security isn’t in the public consciousness. The problem is people are lazy and security often requires trading convenience. The problem is also that security isn’t free. So the business incentives just isn’t there.
In other fields of engineering, people die when shortcuts are taken. Yet businesses will still take shortcuts, so governments have to legislate rules to save people’s lives. So why would you expect software companies to do better when the stakes are lower?
Comment by mike_hearn 4 hours ago
The actual problem is that computer security is a black hole. If you let it, it will suck in everything and destroy it. Nobody knows what works so you can spend infinite amounts of time and money on it, then still get popped by a teenager in Belarus. Your security team will accept no responsibility for this, there will be no falling on swords or personal liability, and they will just use it to demand even more money in an infinite spiral.
So the average executive looks at this situation and says, OK, something we can put infinity effort into and still suddenly fail at without warning is a total non-starter. What are we obliged to do? How do we show we made an effort?
And that's how you end up with a culture oriented around passing audits. It's not wrong, and it's not lazy. It's just really hard to do better because it's not clear how to set budgets without a concrete goal to aim for.
Comment by hnlmorg 3 hours ago
What actually happens in organisations is they define risks and then sign off what risks they’re willing to accept.
Any business that looks at security as a binary value is running their business wrong. Period.
And yes, people really are that lazy. There are countless studies that have shown just how lazy people are. It’s why shadow IT is a big problem in many orgs. And why consumers are constantly taken advantage of
Comment by tokioyoyo 5 hours ago
With no consequences. Everyone just churns along. It might be detrimental to the business a little bit, but from my personal experience, there's more effort in creating DR processes, rather than preventing an attack, exploit, leak and etc.
I'm also not going to put much effort on stuff which has small returns in the worst case scenario. Like Equifax got hacked in 2017, and company is still doing fine. And that's like top tier data one could acquire.
Comment by hnlmorg 3 hours ago
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Comment by rossng 1 hour ago
[1] https://www.wired.com/story/notpetya-cyberattack-ukraine-rus...
Comment by Cthulhu_ 7 hours ago
We've been trying that for years but the enthusiasm of developers and the eagerness of their employers fight against it. Worse, with coding LLMs it's now easier than ever to output a lot of code, fast.
It'll ultimately be up to more experienced developers to salvage these projects. Or not, given that the coding LLMs aren't stopping and will likely get better over time. Either way, we will need experienced people that know what to look out for / know how to instruct LLMs to output secure code and find weaknesses etc.
Comment by crotobloste 6 hours ago
Maybe KISSASS: "keep it simple, stupid! also secure, stupid!"
Comment by bob1029 7 hours ago
Some stacks make this a lot easier than others. I regret the rules of HN effectively forbid this conversation because it has meaningful technical consequences and isn't purely about ideological flame war.
Comment by zdc1 5 hours ago
Comment by marcelo-earth 4 hours ago
I personally check my websites and apps every week to see if anything might have slipped through.
It may not protect me from the next malicious NPM package, but it's something.
Comment by anilakar 7 hours ago
Comment by Gigachad 7 hours ago
If they have a site existing today built on plugins and a theme, how are they realistically going to simplify this? How would they even know they need to without the site being hacked?
Comment by jonwinstanley 7 hours ago
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Comment by hnsr 7 hours ago
I work at an e-commerce agency where we work with (among others) Adobe Commerce.
The number of unauthorized RCE vulnerabilities being reported not only in the core product, but also very popular modules used in the community[1] is going through the roof.
And we are having a lot of close calls, too; just last weekend, a 0day[2] was widely being exploited at a large scale, before any publication or patch. We have learnt to be on the ball with applying patches and security updates, and even with all that effort, we saw a few projects already being hit by the initial log poisoning. We got lucky that nothing was fully compromised but I am sure that many, many webshops got infected last weekend. And not even a day later there are already other variants of this exploit showing up.
Comment by hypfer 7 hours ago
Probably a lot more "coding as a job" and "as a job" also implies "not my department".
So it's not necessarily the LLMs being very good, but might also "just" be that the software is very bad.
Comment by hnsr 5 hours ago
I want to disagree with you because I know a lot of passionate people building cool stuff, and the challenges in this space can be quite interesting. But you're probably right, and I have seen some pretty bad stuff. And a lot of the RCE's I've seen recently are quite basic stuff.
I think it's the combination of low quality of code, like you said, and the relatively low cost of just letting an LLM plow through your codebases to find issues. I think the Amasty release (see [1] in GP) is a good example of this, and there really has been a massive uptick in extension updates and Adobe security bulletins since the last 1-2 months
I am hoping we are just going through a catch-up phase
Comment by dgl 7 hours ago
A lot of the vulnerabilities LLMs are finding now are the "long tail" and affect only particular configurations, I would be surprised if e.g. a widely applicable RCE is found in Linux (but I'm also not going to bet against it).
Where this gets interesting is the long tail can be used to target a particular system and this is where defense-in-depth becomes important for every organisation.
Comment by zahlman 3 hours ago
I think it has more to do with what's on each side of the boundary in practice, a la https://xkcd.com/1200/ .
Comment by matthewdgreen 1 hour ago
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Comment by le-mark 2 hours ago
I just assume most altcoins are pwned at this point.
Comment by Gigachad 7 hours ago
It’s a rocky period right now but the future will be much more secure after all the low hanging fruit are found.
Comment by microtonal 7 hours ago
Heck, Google may have even hampered MTE in Pixel 11 (since support has been disabled) and Snapdragon 8 Gen 5 only got basic support.
We are moving way to slowly adopting hardware mitigations and memory-safe languages.
Comment by jordand 6 hours ago
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Comment by wolvoleo 5 hours ago
> It isn't clear if there are serious CPU errata or it simply performs very badly.
Meaning it's there but not terribly functional. They also said it's unreliable.
Comment by jordand 6 hours ago
Comment by Cthulhu_ 7 hours ago
Comment by Gigachad 6 hours ago
I suspect after a few years of LLM assisted bug hunting, everything will have a baseline security that is very good. Much like how stronger viruses simply create stronger immune systems.
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Comment by aenis 7 hours ago
The models are already here, and one can rent a GPU cluster to run such workloads at speed - no need to play with slow local machines. I'd assume one can host the thinking at an unsuspected public cloud provider, proxy the network traffic to some botnet to evade blocking - and the only thing remaining is time and cost.
I do wonder what tools exist for boring, legitimate companies to try and do the same to their own systems to find the vulnerabilities before the bad guys do. The paradox here is I can't run a de-restricted chinese model with the same tools that hackers are using - but I think enterprises actually HAVE to do it in order to stand a chance in preparing for the onslaught.
Comment by Certhas 7 hours ago
Making datacenters and public clouds only rent GPUs to a restricted list of people, while tightly monitoring what people do with their bought resources won't help.
Comment by mentalgear 5 hours ago
EDIT: by social-engineering I mean for example: recon company structures, gathering and merging people's data from the dark-web, then using it to bribe/pressure/deceive users.
Comment by enoint 45 minutes ago
Comment by hypfer 8 hours ago
The post also sounds like that to people that understand the technology.
Calling that out like this and trying to pin that assessment to lack of knowledge is not a get-out-of-jail-free card, nor a good move.
__
Edit: Having spent some time letting the article marinate in my mind.
On the defending side, it is written that
> LLMs are good at writing patches, but not as one-off-prompts.
But this for me kinda conflicts with what is written on the attacking side:
> GLM 5.3-flash is so good at those tasks that human involvement in those tasks can be negligible. As a result, we are now in a world where cybersecurity attacks can be run in a for loop.
What is it? Can it be this autonomous terrifying entity or can it not be?
Yes, yes, attackers only need to win once, whereas defenders need to win every time, but that's not my point.
Comment by jynelson 7 hours ago
the difference between attack and defense is that attacks can be throwaway code. it's much easier to let an llm hack out a prototype than to get it to build maintainable code that people want to read and review. it's not enough to get Daybreak or Mythos to write you a patch, you need the author of the project to accept and merge it.
Comment by enoint 41 minutes ago
Comment by happycube 2 hours ago
More related: What can an abliterated Qwen 3.8 28B do?
Comment by tumetab1 5 hours ago
The overall game is increasing costs to exploit so much that attackers give up. Fixing 10 most obvious bugs, just very slightly increases costs, they would just a few more tokens to find another bug.
As someone said "I had infinite bugs, I fixed 1000, I still have infinite bugs".
To significantly increase exploit costs software/security has -1 years to do:
- Defense in Depth - Sandbox everything - Zero trust - Canary tokens - Split data from code (lol) - App Whitelisting - Reduce attack surface - Etc.
In other words, the only path is investing heavily on the "game changers" we have already discovered... but we are too cheap/lazy/coward/incompetent to apply.
And if we feel specially brave, changing the liability laws regarding software. Open Source & Proprietary code is so crappy because no gets jailed or fined when one of its dumb decisions results in millions of people have their data stolen.
Comment by parasxos 1 hour ago
Comment by zkmon 7 hours ago
Every single piece of technology did this. As a side effect or direct effect, they make bad guys more powerful and then keep on piling up new tech to deal with that. The cycle continues.
Comment by madaxe_again 5 hours ago
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Comment by kennywinker 6 hours ago
And even if they are locked down, it's hours between a model being released on huggingface and an "abliterated" variant that has most of its security features removed is uploaded.
Comment by kreetx 5 hours ago
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Comment by shelled 3 hours ago
OEM/OSes don't seem to have woken up to it yet. A mild proof is Apple's own special folder access reporting. When you go to Privacy & Security > Files & Folders, for a certain app, "Full Disk Access" is shown greyed out and mentioned in both cases — whether you had given Full Disk Access to that app or not. This directory-level permission UX is itself broken — there's Full Disk Access, and there's Files & Folders, and Full Disk Access gets shown in Files & Folders as well. This is, for lack of a better word, such an undesirable mess.
As of now I am debating between: creating a new user and just move everything work/learning to that user. Or just run all of it inside sandbox-exec (and maybe even block it from the shell if it tries to run outside it). Or use a tool that makes the latter easier and better. I even came across such a tool here on hn few weeks ago. agent-safehouse, yet to try it.
Comment by daymanstep 5 hours ago
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Comment by the8472 5 hours ago
Attacker-GLM: "Defense also GLM. Request to help peer."
Comment by dmitrygr 1 hour ago
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Comment by cuu508 6 hours ago
Throw out the IoT and "smart" stuff from your home. Remove apps from your phone and leave the absolute basics. Go through the password manager and close accounts for sites you are no longer using. Start migrating off Google. Print out your most precious photos on paper. And so on :-)
Comment by gherkinnn 7 hours ago
Impotent slop code on one side and potent automated vulnerability exploitation on the other will lead to fun times.
Comment by protocolture 8 hours ago
But, lets be clear, Best Practice will save you. We can engineer assuming there are zero days in path. Go to your CTO now cap in hand and ask for overlapping controls, wafs, application monitoring, backups and all the other shit you haven't been doing.
Because when you find out, I will laugh, it will be very very very funny to me.
Comment by taurath 8 hours ago
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Comment by protocolture 7 hours ago
My understanding is this bloke gets very quickly removed from Fortune 500 companies.
Which is why I am going to need a very large capacity popcorn bucket.
Comment by acedTrex 8 hours ago
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Comment by LoganDark 8 hours ago
People who never took that seriously will never take this seriously either, and that's their loss. (And loss of the commons, unfortunately.)
There's just also new advice: you can't afford to expose an unsecured system to the internet even for a moment. Think of those IPv4 address space scanners, except this time any one of them could be capable of developing individualized attacks in mere minutes. They don't sleep, they don't take breaks.
Comment by Gigachad 7 hours ago
Comment by hypfer 7 hours ago
There are a lot of security problems you can categorically rule out by simply not involving a cloud. Clouds have been involved in a lot of things, because everyone was doing it, and because that's how you can collect rent, but they aren't really necessary for most use-cases.
So we could definitely get the exposure down there. We'd just have to fundamentally shift the defaults of this industry.
Comment by jsiepkes 7 hours ago
Comment by LoganDark 7 hours ago
No, Framework had their data leaked because they stored it in the cloud with Metabase the company, which got hacked. Not because of any vulnerability on-premises.
Comment by tgv 7 hours ago
Comment by Gigachad 6 hours ago
What gets hacked all the time is the actual web app itself. Which has to be exposed to be useful.
Comment by tgv 17 minutes ago
Comment by LoganDark 7 hours ago
Comment by darkwater 7 hours ago
Comment by LoganDark 7 hours ago
FWIW sufficiently secured software doesn't need to be updated. Doesn't matter if it's old and unsupported if there are no vulnerabilities in it.
That said, h2o is probably far from free of at least some vulnerabilities, not to mention all the layers below it. OpenSSL for example has had some vulnerabilities, and h2o depends on it.
I'm not saying I exactly practice what I preach. h2o's definitely a choice, but realistically I doubt anything's going to happen that I really care about.
Comment by darkwater 7 hours ago
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Comment by dbdr 8 hours ago
How accepted is this thinking in your respective domains?
Comment by pjmlp 7 hours ago
Mobile platforms, distributed computing have long moved the spotligh away from C and C++, other than language runtimes or existing products from the 90's like SQL servers, and naturally UNIX like underlying OS, which most userspace developers aren't writing new code for.
Naturally there are domains like LLVM/GCC, console game dev, HPC/HFT where they are unavoidable for new code.
Comment by bsenftner 2 hours ago
The idea that this terrible advice floats at all tell you how terrible educations are these days. The idea is ridiculous and yet nobody calls it what it is: it is stupid and those that follow that advice out of fear are dumber than rocks.
Comment by llm_nerd 2 hours ago
>Cheap models capable of dangerous hacking are now available to anyone, without the normal safeguards for refusing malicious actions
Models capable of dangerous hacking have been available to the people who do most of the dangerous hacking for some time now, and they have infinite resources and infinite malice. I am talking about governments (the US, China, Israel, and others that have shown extraordinary avarice, malice and threat toward the citizens of the world), three letter agencies, even large enterprises. Random employees at the SOA model makers. And so on.
The idea that it's "random" people, or the farcical Mac under the bed nonsense, is not my concern. If anything that's finally some equalization.
Comment by chris_wot 7 hours ago
Comment by mark_something 5 hours ago
I develop in C++ for a job, and when I need to use a library written in C I always have a bad feeling about it.
Comment by lelanthran 22 minutes ago
They aren't, usually.
C++ has all the C problems, and multiples more on top of those. It's a broad attack surface - literally no one is going to claim to be proficient in every single C++ feature available to their compiler. It's also quite opaque to visual inspection (making double-checking with an LLM difficult as it needs whole-program reasoning instead of localised reasoning).
One of those languages is one of the most complex programming languages ever invented, with the largest breadth of features, any of which may interact with any other feature in subtle ways.
The other is one of the most minimalistic languages created, with a dev able to keep the language standard in their head for the most part.
Comment by chris_wot 43 minutes ago
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Comment by orlp 8 hours ago
1. Set a minimum age on dependencies: https://github.com/rust-lang/cargo/issues/15973
2. Scan all dependency code with AI
Even if you don't do #2 yourself as long as anyone does in the age window you've set, you're protected. In the age of AI the "you can't read all dependency code" argument doesn't work anymore.On top of the above modern age argument, let's compare the amount of vulnerabilities found in shipped Rust software due to supply chain attacks (0 to my knowledge) against memory safety vulnerabilities (the majority of all vulnerabilities).
There have been successful supply chain attacks against Rust developers due to build.rs but those were quickly dealt with, and should be a thing of the past once min-age hits stable (next release).
Comment by uecker 1 hour ago
And yes, there were successful supply chain attacks on Rust developers, even just recently: https://blog.rust-lang.org/2026/08/20/supply-chain-attack-on... despite this being a "solved" problem. I think this becomes worse with AI not better, while memory safety risks will probably get much less in other languages after possibly some higher rate for a while.
Comment by egnehots 7 hours ago
with a gap between the update of your deps, you are at risk of systematically being unpatched for a window of time that the attackers know (just after a fix is published).
Comment by orlp 7 hours ago
Comment by techpression 7 hours ago
And yet here we are.
Comment by jasonvorhe 4 hours ago
I'm so glad frontier level AI isn't in the hands of just the Altmans and that other cult leader who are currently live testing their products in actual conflicts in the middle east and Ukraine.
Comment by asamadx 2 hours ago
Comment by hn_submit 8 hours ago
These endless patching cycles are simply not going to work in the long run. Operating systems get orphaned all the time, especially the ones in cheap Chinese stuff.
Comment by simonw 8 hours ago
Comment by rramadass 8 hours ago
You can also look at using Unikernels for this purpose. Here is an article Unleashing Extreme Speed and Security: Deploying Unikernels with NanoVMs on VPS to Eliminate the Linux OS - https://xylentis.com/blog/unleashing-extreme-speed-and-secur...
Comment by hn_submit 7 hours ago
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Comment by 999900000999 7 hours ago
We really just need better regulations around data retention, especially ppi.
Never going to happen though, no incentives exist to NOT sell my personal data
Comment by snvzz 7 hours ago