The Education of a Doomer
Posted by f311a 17 hours ago
Comments
Comment by rahulyc 16 hours ago
Even if I get unemployed, I don't see how I can opt-out when it comes to everyone everywhere using it.
Governments historically have considered humans as assets - it's even called "human capital", and they require us for tax revenue and to run the state. What happens when we aren't needed? Even if the AI is magically aligned to the state, I don't see how I end up the winning side of that. It's not like we're getting a voice in how this is shoved down our throats today. Why would it get any better when AGI can do everything humans can do? What still gives us a voice in the world?
Comment by OgsyedIE 15 hours ago
1: verbal/literary labour with your vocal cords, or the use of an output tool, to playback existing or newly created works in environments where mechanical methods are disallowed or disfavored,
2: aesthetic labour through precise recreations of other's mental labour in the performing arts,
3: legal labour in acting as an agent to help or hinder existing legal processes in systems that give humans standing,
4: biological labour as a substrate for growing certain transplantable products,
5: smuggling labour (either non-invasive or surgically invasive),
6: political labour to incrementally sway electoral results in any polity where you are still enfranchised,
7: security labour as a canary for infohazards (such as 'diplomat' programs produced by another ASI) inside of a quarantined environment,
8: frontman work as a deniable patsy to enable economic forgery, deception, revenge or warfare by some hypergraph of patron AGIs and the superorganisms they compose with, or without, your knowledge of what your work entails.
Some of these have a strong factor of supply and demand. You can increase your market value by reducing the supply of other humans competing for these revenue sources.
Comment by Prophet6-0091 15 hours ago
Comment by saulpw 15 hours ago
Comment by bigfishrunning 15 hours ago
Comment by saulpw 15 hours ago
L. Randall Wray, "What Are Taxes For? The MMT Approach" (2014):
> Sovereign government does not really need revenue in its own currency in order to spend. It is the tax that 'drives' the currency. If we eliminated the tax, people probably would not immediately abandon use of the currency, but the main driver for its use would be gone.
Comment by bigfishrunning 2 hours ago
Comment by EMIRELADERO 15 hours ago
Comment by anon84873628 15 hours ago
Game theory is a helluva thing.
Comment by diputsmonro 15 hours ago
And I do not have much faith in the charity of the most powerful 1%. Charitable people often do not make it into that group.
Comment by ChriSumlin 15 hours ago
Comment by MentalM 14 hours ago
They will have one of the strongest incentive: to remain at the top. Moreover, it will not be that hard. In Soviet Union one honest socialist with four revolvers (major general Vasily Blokhin) could easily kill up to a thousand people per day personally (if he were laboriously working overtime). And back then there wasn't even a global governmental surveillance or AI-drones with explosives.
Comment by EMIRELADERO 13 hours ago
At the top of what? After all the massacres the remaining billionaires and their families would be all that's left of humanity. Who would want to rule over a human-empty, machine-led Earth for the rest of their lives? Not to mention the attitude and morality of their families and those close to them.
Comment by saulpw 13 hours ago
Comment by schmidtleonard 15 hours ago
Comment by anon84873628 15 hours ago
Not much different from the feudal era. You still need access to good lands (energy production, minerals) but an army of computers and robots instead of serfs and knights. Like Asimov's world of Solaria.
Comment by grebc 13 hours ago
Comment by MentalM 14 hours ago
Depends on the political system. Under socialism authority will simply improve the environment by reducing your carbon footprint with eight grams of lead. Under capitalism you're already not needed to anybody.
> Why would it get any better when AGI can do everything humans can do?
Because that "better" we are building ourselves with our own hands. How it can get worse? Only if authority forbid us from building ourselves like we always did and decide to improve the environment.
Comment by ArcHound 16 hours ago
And that's the case today - new AI being a sufficient programmer replacement is enough of a statement to do layoffs with record profits without impact on stock prices.
Comment by skybrian 15 hours ago
This seems like asking what's the last major decision you made without at least doing a web search. There's nothing wrong with doing a search. The trouble is when you rely too much on what you read, without checking it.
Comment by ArcHound 5 hours ago
Comment by throwawayk7h 16 hours ago
Forgive me if I'm naïve. But wouldn't people just vote for UBI in this case?
Comment by bumblehean 16 hours ago
Personally I think that's likely the case _today_, but who knows if that would hold if/when there comes a time when UBI becomes an economic necessity.
Comment by MentalM 14 hours ago
Why in North Korea people just does not vote for UBI? For UBI government need control over majority of resources generated by the public. But if government has that control, what people vote for no longer matters.
Comment by simonw 15 hours ago
Comment by GavinMcG 16 hours ago
Comment by gman83 14 hours ago
Comment by GPerson 12 hours ago
Comment by a2ff6eeb0 14 hours ago
So, the governance of a country comes down to AI alignment. You can't let the other guys get a leadership advantage through AI, or you'll start losing the competition.
When we get ASI, we're at the end of human decision making. Now's the time that we have to make sure ASI decision making is to our liking.
Comment by rustcleaner 15 hours ago
Comment by EMIRELADERO 15 hours ago
Comment by MentalM 13 hours ago
Comment by Prophet6-0091 15 hours ago
Comment by NoMoreNicksLeft 16 hours ago
Comment by aranelsurion 15 hours ago
Comment by bananaflag 16 hours ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_Nicaraguan_general_electi...
Comment by aranelsurion 15 hours ago
One would hope maybe boring things like healthcare, better living conditions, better functioning societies, and so on.
Not as exciting as flying cars and thinking machines for sure.
Comment by paulpauper 16 hours ago
yeah it's obvious the author has a really high IQ who can keep himself busy with intellectual pursuits and a nice social life of other smart people . His experience will not map to the general population, who find themselves with idle time. Also, a barebones UBI will be hardly sufficient to cover other expenses unless the AI also solves housing, healthcare, insurance, childcare, transportation etc.
Comment by throwawayk7h 16 hours ago
Comment by hackinthebochs 14 hours ago
Comment by bananaflag 16 hours ago
Comment by sheepdestroyer 7 hours ago
Comment by zetalyrae 12 hours ago
Well, I can't solve everyone's lives.
Comment by Barrin92 16 hours ago
As ecological concerns and automation eliminate a large chunk of production it's pointless to maintain a system that only knows how to finance exactly that stuff, so socialize the gains of those and start redirecting them to socially necessary labor. There's much more to do than just playing boardgames.
Comment by OgsyedIE 15 hours ago
Comment by Barrin92 11 hours ago
And it's no coincidence that Saito is Japanese because that's what Japan has been living in. They've not grown in decades. Without overlords, it's an adaption to a world where the average citizen is 50, ecology cannot sustain consumption and significantly more time will be dedicated to mending the environment, taking care of old people, and putting technology to work to make that possible.
Comment by fellowniusmonk 15 hours ago
Comment by erelong 12 hours ago
I think the only main critique that comes to mind is the primitivists, who argue that automation has massively destroyed our freedom and psychologically destabilized us (among other things); you really can't meaningfully opt out of whatever technology exists and it forces someone to use it somewhere. It also ultimately takes away certain freedoms that previously existed and creates lots of new problems that didn't exist before (like increased mental health problems in industrialized nations). And so this problem has already happened with the Industrial Revolution - AI is basically just a continuation of these problems, not perhaps different in kind but degree.
> Alignment
is an issue to me, but any currently existing technology can also be misused to some extent
> Control
again we're not in control of current technology, new things are developed that other people have no control over but just "adapt" to
> by letting the AI write, you are giving up most of what makes up thinking
I guess I haven't been viewing things this way but have been filtering ways I anticipate AI should be used and not used as. In other words, I think it's a great use of AI to share a prompt and AI output as a way of dialogue "writing". For example, I might want to give you 10 ideas on something to bake, and AI outputs 10 ideas that are actually valuable, so sharing the list does add value. But in how I would "write" with AI, it would be clear where I am prompting and where the AI takes over. I also think that a person should read the AI output and essentially indicate points of agreement or disagreement especially if there is some serious defect in the AI output.
> The discourse around software engineering has gotten dumber
Good and bad; it's enabled people with less SE experience (or intelligence even) to talk more about SE and become a meaningful participant in the process of software creation. But it takes less specialized skill for some of these things than some of the previously developed skills, and that can have a different feel to it.
> Deferring to AI
Again I guess I am filtering a bad use of this. AI frequently gives "good" answers that I would have manually hunted for previously on a search engine, and I still can sift through what it outputs. So I think it's great as a brainstorm tool that I somewhat freely choose from. I can understand how other people may not be using it in the same way as I use it though, more like an aide rather than a smarter entity I am taking orders from.
> Stagnation
I guess it's ironic because although I also focus on "stagnation", I guess there is indeed a lot of actual "progress" going on. It's more of a political issue perhaps than a technological issue.
Comment by slopinthebag 15 hours ago
Comment by anon84873628 15 hours ago
Until then it is vulnerable to disruption. So of course you will need the robot army to forcibly take and defend resources around the world. How will that war turn out?
Robot labor will be more valuable than humans for a very long time. Heck, we still have many towns in the US that have humans running around throwing trash bags into the back of the truck, because they haven't switched to the standardized containers and hydrologic arms. Let's not even get started on the rest of the "developing" world.
Comment by OgsyedIE 15 hours ago
Comment by hackinthebochs 14 hours ago
Comment by slopinthebag 13 hours ago
Since neither of us are doing this, we’re apparently both betting our lives on the current trajectory of LLMs hitting a wall soon and fast.
Comment by VCFundedGenYer 14 hours ago
Comment by underlipton 15 hours ago
I, for one, would have welcomed our green energy revolution overlords.
Also, VR/AR, before the Great Powers deep-sixed any real efforts. Growing up on .hack, GitS, and SAO, it really is a bummer. How come I must know, where the techbros lead me to go?
Comment by perching_aix 15 hours ago
"It might be slop but at least it's human slop!" - would the author argue in turn, probably:
> People used to argue online, flame each other, get angry. And that wasn’t good, but at least it was human. [0]
Another perspective though could be that one's thoughts were never meant to be guaranteed high-entropy curio for others to encounter, so they're really under no obligation to be found "original", if that even means anything. [1] And sure, that is true.
Just also not any more true than the former.
[0] emphasis theirs, I don't even need to mock it like this; the secondhand embarrassment comes built-in
[1] this is to say, these may be genuinely candid and original thoughts from the author, that simply happen to coincide with the many thoughts already expressed in this genre of writing
Comment by ankithg 16 hours ago
Comment by piloto_ciego 14 hours ago
Comment by akoboldfrying 14 hours ago
This could happen all by itself if the major LLM players coordinated (i.e., formed a cartel), or if they were forced to to recoup investments (we all know this is coming to some degree, at least for the western companies). Alternatively it could be forced into place if ~all major nations' governments start taxing AI use (which seems eminently a good idea to me in any case).
There's still the issue of local LLMs, but this could be addressed with taxes on GPU hardware, etc.
Comment by ghostly_s 15 hours ago
I don't think this person has a firm enough grasp of economics to be writing on the subject.