Working on Economics with Fable 5
Posted by Wilsoniumite 17 hours ago
Comments
Comment by skew-aberration 15 hours ago
Almost all of the theory and predictions presented seems to be those of regular classical economics, per Smith, Riccardo, and particularly George. You can find them in Wealth of Nations, Progress and Poverty. This surprises people who have been failed by our education systems. There are still many people writing about this exact topic now - the author does mention e.g Stiglitz.
The author seems to be overcome by the explanatory power of a 150-250 year-old well-established economic theory, of which fable has built a fairly general (novel? improved?) macro model for him, including the effects of certain tax policies. They present this as a new theory of economics rather than a new macro model.
It's very off-putting as a reader - you can't distinguish at a glance between what the author claims to have contributed vs merely discovered by reading about Georgism. Established concepts are not referred to be their usual names, etc.
Comment by jerf 13 hours ago
On my near-term todo list is to explore a particular crank physics theory of my own with AI... but not as a way to validate it, I know it's a crank theory that is far too simple to have been missed by pros in the relevant fields, but as a window into the literature and figure out what's wrong with it and thereby learn something. I will be framing it to the AI in pretty much precisely that way: Go get literature and reputable sources and talk through why this is already well known, probably well known to be a bad and wrong idea.
I still feel like not enough people are talking about this here on HN... AI has opened the scientific literature like never before. It's like being able to interrogate it and interview it as if it was a person, rather than just searching papers, for keywords you don't know, for lines of thought you've never heard of, in a sub-sub-sub-field you didn't even know existed, and failing before you even knew what it is you wanted. I've read more papers in the past 6 months than the past 10 years. Whatever opportunity you have to try this out, be it some question bothering you for the last 10 years, or a crank theory of your own to prove out against the literature, the foundation of some vibe-coded program informed by the literature rather than just vibing on the neural weights directly, or just asking something random about the studied effects of beavers on local ecosystems, you gotta try this. Prompt it specifically for "reputable sources and scientific papers", that helps a lot. It does not make you suddenly an expert in the field, but it does let you poke through the pile of literature far, far more effectively than you could hope to before.
And then don't forget to ask it why your summary is wrong or incomplete. Even if it doesn't convince you, you'll learn yet more.
Comment by mattwiese 13 hours ago
At work I'm putting together an MCP server that more easily exposes our legume data for model consumption, and part of the insane value-add has been the curatorial work that our collaborators at USDA put into the data over years. For example, genome data (i.e. nucleic acid fastas) include relevant metadata such as their DOIs, so models can fetch and read the original papers (if they're open access, of course).
This goes a long way to boosting the intelligence/usefulness of these systems for research.
Comment by copperx 13 hours ago
Comment by datsci_est_2015 2 hours ago
Comment by edot 13 hours ago
Comment by hanspagel 9 hours ago
This is still pointing the LLM in a specific direction . You might want to prompt something like “give me a summary of relevant literature” and avoid sharing your point of view. Wdyt?
Comment by jerf 1 hour ago
If I were operating in a field in which I was already an expert, or in a field that is more strongly opinion-based anyhow (e.g., philosophy... it isn't particularly clear that being an "expert" in philosophy has any strong impact on your chances of being "right", for whatever that even means in that field), I might ask for something more neutral, but I know I'm not.
Comment by tomveber 7 hours ago
Comment by skew-aberration 15 hours ago
Comment by oefrha 14 hours ago
> I simply could not have written this piece. I myself have no formal economics background
No shit, me neither, I read a couple macroeconomics textbooks at the age of 30 and now I wouldn't make arrogant and obviously wrong claims like the above. And I don't have the hubris to publish a paper.
Comment by tolerance 14 hours ago
Comment by howunfortunate 13 hours ago
Comment by tolerance 11 hours ago
Comment by boringg 13 hours ago
Ah well.
Comment by bix6 13 hours ago
Comment by crooked-v 14 hours ago
Comment by layla5alive 13 hours ago
Comment by oliviayii 8 hours ago
Comment by dash2 13 hours ago
Sheesh.
Comment by estearum 15 hours ago
What do you believe are the most important contributions here over standard Georgism or Ricardo's theory of rents?
Comment by larsiusprime 13 hours ago
https://blog.landeconomics.org/p/book-review-the-natural-div...
Comment by delichon 15 hours ago
There is no term for human value here, and it is values that set prices. Scarcity is not itself a value. A particular snowflake or UUID being unique adds no demand. Wages are set in the context of every possible opportunity that the employer can imagine, as ordered by values. So a wage-predicting equation needs arguments that measure all of those value-weighted opportunities against paying a given wage, but this one doesn't. And "That's it" seems to declare them not relevant.
Comment by tomrod 14 hours ago
Comment by impossiblefork 14 hours ago
Comment by Stevvo 14 hours ago
Comment by s1artibartfast 13 hours ago
There is shifting burdens from good to good or person to person.
I find it no surprise that so many of the loudest proponents for georgism are highly compensated tech workers with low physical consumption - exactly the demographic that would be favored most under that system.
Comment by imtringued 7 hours ago
Instead the people who benefit from the infrastructure have the bill for the public transportation system rolled into their land value tax.
Right now in the current system you pay both income taxes and then you pay the landlord again because to him as the monopoly owner of land, the public infrastructure is pure producer surplus.
The demographic that would be favoured under that system is people who work for a living and the people being disadvantaged are the ones sitting on land or extracting the producer surplus.
Comment by wat10000 12 hours ago
Comment by reverius42 12 hours ago
Comment by estearum 34 minutes ago
Comment by s1artibartfast 11 hours ago
Georgism does a excellent job of incentivising better land use, but is trivial to shelter income from.
A teacher renting a run down aprtment might have a similar land tax footprint to a tech ceo in a taller building, or maybe the ceo just teleworks from home in Wyoming.
xAI or whomever puts their next Mega server farm on undesirable land, and then operates basically tax-free.
The end of day problem with the Georgist theory is that we now live in a knowledge and information economy, not an industrial one governed by material inputs. Changing a 1 to a 0 on a string of bits might yeild a billion dollar profit, but requires no material overhead.
Comment by estearum 35 minutes ago
It's to 1) fund services while 2) minimizing distortions.
If someone can consume land of no value and produce huge amounts of value from it, that's a good thing. They should be entitled to as much upside as they can produce.
Comment by s1artibartfast 26 minutes ago
That said, the point of a taxation scheme is not to "minimize distortions". If you think that is important, thats fine, but it isn't a commonly held position.
Funnily, It is mostly Georgists that think it is a very important property of a tax.
Comment by slopinthebag 13 hours ago
Comment by antisthenes 12 hours ago
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Comment by s1artibartfast 8 hours ago
Comment by antisthenes 2 hours ago
Because in my experience talking with them, most don't, and the vast majority are anti-federal organizations of any kind. And these have been multiple discussions over the course of 20+ years.
Comment by slopinthebag 2 hours ago
Comment by estearum 31 minutes ago
Now granted, among the people who are actually free-thinkers and have their own opinions, you will find many libertarian-adjacent views, but I've found that those people do not refer to themselves as libertarians.
Comment by slopinthebag 5 minutes ago
there's also a difference between Libertarians and libertarians. im not american so i refer to the latter but i know what u mean
Comment by kid64 11 hours ago
Comment by owenpayton 15 hours ago
Comment by jefftk 13 hours ago
Up until now you have been reading the words of Anthropic’s Claude, in particular Fable 5. In part, this is because I simply could not have written this piece. ... Although it might seem strange I thought it wrong to impose too much upon the machine, changing its voice to emulate mine. Richard Sutton’s bitter lesson would likely advise as much. Instead it has its unique voice, grating to some perhaps but altogether fitting that it should be able to keep it, and I only gave it advice on what considerations during writing would bridge the gap between its understanding and that of a reader.
Comment by ekelsen 13 hours ago
"Here is, for those that have read this far, the acknowledgements that used to be in the formal paper but we decided to remove it, mostly because the paper has been reworked and rewritten so many times by us."
Comment by estearum 15 hours ago
Edit: Just for fun I just defeated it with AI-generated text that it reported as 100% human-written. Great stuff. Truly genius scam.
Comment by ekelsen 15 hours ago
The only counter example is when a human composed a piece deliberately trying to mimic AI slop.
So call it an AI slop detector if you want, but either way it accurately identifies stuff I don't wan't to read.
Comment by estearum 15 hours ago
Is that the level of sensitivity we're looking for? More than literally 0%? Do you know how crazy it'd be to achieve that, even if they were trying to?
Comment by snitty 14 hours ago
Comment by estearum 13 hours ago
Comment by ekelsen 11 hours ago
Comment by estearum 2 hours ago
It has literally never been done.
What a hilarious inversion of credulity.
Comment by dwaltrip 10 hours ago
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Comment by robotresearcher 8 hours ago
I’m leaving out the ‘pseudo-scientific’ part of GP’s description, since it doesn’t entail anything technically.
Comment by Tostino 4 hours ago
Comment by firesteelrain 15 hours ago
Comment by skew-aberration 15 hours ago
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Comment by schmidtleonard 13 hours ago
It's reasonable to want most capital allocation to happen privately, thereby ensuring these decisions are made by people with a track record of success and skin-in-the-game. That's capitalism, it's good, and I'm a capitalist too. But the propaganda that the government is so inherently bad at this game that one should fight it even in an emergency is reductive, defeatist, and ahistorical.
Comment by bethekidyouwant 15 hours ago
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Comment by Wilsoniumite 16 hours ago