Leaving VMware just got harder after Broadcom pulled VDDK downloads
Posted by josephcsible 17 hours ago
Comments
Comment by soamv 12 hours ago
There was a solid few years that a lot of business types at vmware behaved as though winning was the default, assured state. It took several years for them to see that that was very much not the case. A real lesson in there, for every successful business today.
Comment by chipx86 9 hours ago
I agree with your point about "winning was the default state." I joined during the Diane Greene era and left in the Pat Gelsinger era, spoke to all three CEOs at different points in one-on-ones, and learned a lot about how different people approach the challenges of running a company and listening to employees.
Pre-Broadcom, sort of toward the end of my time there, there was a lot of unintended self-sabotage that didn't need to happen. We lost people that we shouldn't and shot ourselves in the foot for some really dumb reasons, which just a bit more coordination could have prevented. There were some innovative ideas that got lost in all this, and I believe could have fueled VMware's product line and put it in the right positions for where the sector ultimately went. Alas.
Comment by SanjayMehta 12 hours ago
Avago's business model is to acquire cash cow businesses and then milk them dry. These VMware changes are consistent with that model.
Comment by m4rtink 4 hours ago
You will make an insane amount of money and make the world a much better place!
Comment by dessimus 3 hours ago
Comment by thekrendal 54 minutes ago
Comment by throw0101a 12 hours ago
For a visual representation of this see the "Edgar suit" from the movie Men in Black. :)
Comment by the_alchemist 11 hours ago
Comment by jms703 53 minutes ago
Comment by ramgine 14 hours ago
I’ve quietly built a proxmox cluster in our environment for semi-prod workloads for when the inevitable windows host has issues.
Comment by kev009 12 hours ago
There are a few broad categories to building one of these platforms.. core virtualization ("relatively easy"), device model ("medium hard"), storage management ("hard"), management plane ("medium hard").
VMWare popularized x86 core virtualization and defined their own device model because they were the early market leader. But the device model is pretty bizarre and I haven't been particularly impressed by the guest driver quality over the years. VMFS and vSAN seem good for storage, the latter being better than anything open source. Management plane was mediocre, I remember it took a while to move off Flash and fat clients while cloud vendors were showing none of that was necessary from inception, and everything is kind of in a walled garden by design (embedded DB etc).
Comment by ExoticPearTree 2 hours ago
VSAN was a weird one until I understood the logic behind it, but the licensing costs kind of brought on-par to buying a SAN and be happy.
I haven't touched Microsoft Hyper-V.
Comment by yardie 1 hour ago
Microsoft hides their best stuff in SCVMM, which is another product and another license they want you to purchase. Anytime I've asked someone from MS why I can't X like I can in vCenter the response was usually, "oh, it's in System Center. FCM, HVM are just stripped down. If you need it you should buy System Center."
Comment by sigmoid10 14 hours ago
Comment by simoncion 14 hours ago
I assume this means that you were using Vmware Workstation? The VDDK is for Vmware vSphere, which -IIRC- runs on Linux and coordinates computers running ESXi, which are where vSphere VMs actually run.
Not that many people are going to be using Vmware Workstation to run a large number of VMs.
Comment by protocolture 12 hours ago
And I was like... what virtual host?
What I found was Server 2003 running on VMWare Workstation, running on a Windows 7 Dell PC sitting at the bottom of a rack.
A lot of people think VMWare Workstation is the pinnacle product of the company and I have NFI how this came to be.
Comment by whizzter 4 hours ago
Sure, a type-1 hypervisor like vSphere is technically better since there's no host OS creating unmanageable contention and if you have guests with higher performance requirements then yeah it's settling for something half-assed.
But in reality, we have some similar shit to a "fax server" that has manually set up weird manufacturer printer settings (local admins tried to be automated/distributed) and old third-party software libraries that "infects" a system globally (2 versions of that library cannot co-exist on a computer).
If that piece of crap can be contained on a VM, as long as it's contained and keeps trucking after a restart/powercycle everyone is happy. What kind of VM container hosts it is really secondary.
(What the software in question is can probably be inferred from the comment, the software is liked by users at the client so it's not going away)
Comment by manjose2018 11 hours ago
If I were starting a company today I would make sure that the majority of my apps were web based. (CRM[netsuite or sf.com], O365/GoogleDocs, workday|gusto, etc.)
Comment by d3Xt3r 10 hours ago
Comment by JoeBOFH 2 hours ago
Comment by tstrimple 13 hours ago
Comment by ramgine 11 hours ago
Comment by spockz 7 hours ago
Comment by broknbottle 13 hours ago
Comment by xyzelement 10 hours ago
I don't think anyone finds this flavor of activity beneficial. What's beneficial is the underlying system that is sufficiently free and flexible that great things (like VMware to begin with) are possible. As much as we don't like "this" we don't want to put any bureaucrats in power to squash creativity and enterprise.
Much like freedom of speech means someone can speak abhorrently, freedom of enterprise means someone can do bad or dumb business things. But we enjoy the thing in totality.
Comment by someothherguyy 3 minutes ago
No?
Comment by throwup238 10 hours ago
That was literally Broadcom’s reason for existing before Avago even acquired them. It’s the other half of the Qualcomm/Broadcom telecom duopoly.
Comment by aleph_minus_one 11 hours ago
I do understand the argument that it can be considered as a benefit for society if companies that have a very incompetent management that falls for this kind of trap of getting locked in by some vendor without having an emergency escape plan available get milked or even get bust. :-)
Comment by bornfreddy 8 hours ago
Problem with incentives, I would say.
Comment by BLKNSLVR 12 hours ago
Comment by Flere-Imsaho 7 hours ago
Why is your place of work not moving wholesale to Proxmox? It's mad that HyperV is chosen as a solution in this day and age.
Comment by ExoticPearTree 2 hours ago
If they build their new Datacenter Manager offering into what vCenter offered and abstract away all the ugliness (imagine creating a "distributed" switch on Proxmox with two clicks) I think they will make a killing.
Comment by WokeUp420 3 hours ago
Comment by throw0101a 2 hours ago
24/7 support will be available starting in October:
* https://www.proxmox.com/en/about/company-details/press-relea...
The other thing perhaps worth noting that the entire stack is open source, even Proxmox's 'special sauce' for management. Depending on your organization, if you can solve a problem with Debian (and Qemu) you can solve a problem with Proxmox.
Comment by PunchyHamster 1 hour ago
Better to just use same automation you use for VMs to just keep fleet of bare Debian + KVM machines.
Proxmox is for when you don't have a bunch of Linux experts on board. And that's also kinda what enterprises want to pay for, removing "liability" of having to keep very competent team.
...the fact that ends up costing them more everywhere is of no concern to middle management
Comment by franktankbank 54 minutes ago
Comment by cloudie78 6 hours ago
Comment by Jedd 14 hours ago
> VMware to Proxmox migrations are not affected ...
Amusingly - and acknowledging tiny scale and modest automation requirements of home lab compared to enterprise - as I started migrating to Proxmox a year or two ago, the process of shuffling VMs off my ESXi servers and onto Proxmox was surprisingly painless. Effectively mount the ESXi as storage systems, and then 'copy to here'.
IIRC the only small challenges were a conservative choice on target VM's CPU type (Proxmox seems to dislike defaulting to 'host' CPU) and the network / SCSI controller defaults. I assume designed to prioritise robustness over performance.
All automatable, I'm sure.
Comment by BLKNSLVR 12 hours ago
Love proxmox now.
Comment by _joel 4 hours ago
Deployed for Haiti, Chengdu etc. All ran perfectly.
Comment by anonymousiam 12 hours ago
Obviously the types of supported virtual hardware will be different between hypervisor types, but that's usually something that can be dealt with separately.
Comment by rwmj 6 hours ago
Comment by nn3 10 hours ago
Comment by justsomehnguy 2 hours ago
Yes? Do that for the hundreds of VMs, with a minimal downtime, bonus points for a dumb C-level on your neck.
You would quickly learn what "just converting disk images" is not enough for moving between hypervisors.
Just as an example: last year I moved a company with two Proxmox servers to ESXi. It took a 3 months and another server as a staging point. A minuscule in modern times 1TB+ VM took a whole weekend to be moved. Of course it didn't work in that time.
Comment by dizhn 2 hours ago
Why?
Comment by PunchyHamster 1 hour ago
Comment by BLKNSLVR 12 hours ago
A friend of mine said that VMWare was still the best VM platform due to the ecosystem that built around it, so it'd be nice if it could be preserved for later resurrection.
I know time moves on quickly, but it'd be a shame to lose it entirely.
I know this is promoting criminality, but there's something wrong with society if this is deemed criminal.
Disclaimer: don't (be a hero)
Comment by tosti 7 hours ago
Comment by PunchyHamster 1 hour ago
Comment by jasonvorhe 4 hours ago
Sure, if you have legacy Windows-only software that is proven to not work in other environments, you're out of luck and your hands may be tied but all the VMWare shops I've liberated from this slow, ugly and terrible to automate mess had to pay dearly for that.
How many more rug pulls do these people need? Oh right, they're probably in the middle of some Azure migration anyways.
Some people just need to learn through pain.
Comment by vintagedave 3 hours ago
Or, they may have been naive. Small companies especially tend to have people with a more, I don't know, 'social' set of business expectations? 'I wouldn't do it to others so surely they wouldn't do it to me / they'll reverse course when they see how bad it looks' sort of expectations. I don't think we should feel "very little pity" for people like that (sympathy is human): but I'd instead say, I think they may be taken advantage of, but I feel admiration because an expectation of good conduct is something everyone should have and retain, even if it is breached.
Comment by dramm 3 hours ago
Comment by dramm 2 hours ago
Comment by dare944 13 hours ago
Yep. They're building the cage around you. Why would you stick around?
Comment by raincom 8 hours ago
Comment by WokeUp420 3 hours ago
Comment by st3fan 1 hour ago
Comment by vrighter 8 hours ago
Comment by rwmj 6 hours ago
Comment by firesteelrain 14 hours ago
Comment by WokeUp420 3 hours ago
Don't do it
Comment by firesteelrain 2 hours ago
It’s on prem
Comment by Incipient 8 hours ago
Now if it actually works out like this, only time will tell I suppose?
Comment by nubinetwork 14 hours ago
Comment by watusername 14 hours ago
Comment by WokeUp420 3 hours ago
Comment by WokeUp420 3 hours ago
Comment by nubinetwork 1 hour ago
Comment by rwmj 14 minutes ago
I gave a 5 min lightning talk about this a couple of years back: https://pretalx.com/devconf-cz-2024/talk/SN93LG/
People talking here about Proxmox make me laugh.
Comment by Neywiny 14 hours ago
Comment by p0w3n3d 8 hours ago
It's sad to watch these things slowly perish
Comment by uriahlight 15 hours ago
Comment by throw0101a 15 hours ago
As a user of Proxmox, and observer of VMware infrastructure in other silos in some IT orgs I've been in, there is no way that Proxmox was a viable solution 3-5 (or more) years ago.
Hyper-V could have been used in many instances. I know a few places that chose to start moving to Nutanix even before the Broadcam fiasco. OpenStack is useful for many large scale environments (especially with tenant isolation and usage tracking/billing/chargebacks).
Proxmox is good a good solution for SMBs, but (especially pre-9.x) there were a bunch of things that made it much less usable for large(r) scale deployments IMHO.
Comment by gerdesj 14 hours ago
It does help that I have thirty years Linux experience compared to the paltry twenty five or so of VMware (which was RedHat plus stuff back in day)
I also have rather a lot of Hyper V exposure too and I defy you to love its iSCSI and networking, let alone that awful vTPM thingie.
It's Proxmox for me, any day. Even when I've completely knackered it I can always boot a systemrescuecd and mount and chroot the thing back to life.
Comment by quietsegfault 14 hours ago
I had asked for vSphere to avoid this problem, and they balked at the licensing costs even in the good ol' days.
Comment by worthless-trash 9 hours ago
Comment by kiney 14 hours ago
Comment by throw0101a 13 hours ago
Define "pretty big". Proxmox officially supports up to 32 nodes in a cluster and the Proxmox folks themselves have "seen clusters of around ~24 nodes in production" (as of 2025) and for "bigger clusters than that, fine-tuning might be necessary":
* https://forum.proxmox.com/threads/proxmox-with-48-nodes.1746...
There are folks talking about running things in the high-40s and low-50s, but that's not officially support. If you have beefy hardware you can fit a lot of VMs on a single hypervisor (I've always found running out of RAM is often the limit).
A single vSphere cluster can have up to 96 nodes (without vSAN), and vCentre can handle multiple clusters (2500 total hosts; 40k VMs). Proxmox recently released Cluster Manager, which helps with feature parity.
I'm a happy user of Proxmox for a number of years (and helped ran OpenStack before that), but I think for large(r) scale deployments (and even smaller ones) there's a good reason which VMware was so popular. (How many folks are actually at that (large(r)) scale is a different question.)
(Also: XCP-ng doesn't seem to get much press. Haven't used it myself though.)
Comment by Avicebron 14 hours ago
Comment by Hasz 12 hours ago
I like Proxmox a lot, but it is technically and commercially several years behind. There is no moat, and when stuff slides sideways, you need to understand what's going on (e.g a competent sysadmin). That is changing with the recent Proxmox NA announcement, but still not there.
OpenStack is not the same product at all, and is about an order of magnitude more complicated. Much more powerful, but instead of a good sysadmin, you probably want a team (and maybe some core devs).
Comment by uriahlight 12 hours ago
Comment by Flere-Imsaho 6 hours ago
Waste of money
Comment by Brian_K_White 14 hours ago
Oh it's crude on day one? So what? You're still operating and on your own terms, and every week a few more minutes of work gets added as little pain points get addressed by whoever cares, and before you know it it's better than anything you can buy, and the total cost was less than your previous licensing, and you never had to deal with a serial number or license manager or account rep, never had to care one bit about counting cpu cores or client seats or vms or physical hosts or ips or backup copies or spinning up new dev boxes or more production without warning or any of that bs.
The bigger you are, the less you need the convenience of outsourcing, not more.
Comment by throw0101a 13 hours ago
Quite often the bigger you are the more the higher ups want risk to be mitigated, and so are often glad to cut a cheque to be able to yell at someone over the phone.
Comment by applfanboysbgon 13 hours ago
Comment by Brian_K_White 1 hour ago
Comment by b3lvedere 4 hours ago
Comment by WokeUp420 3 hours ago
Comment by anonreplier 2 hours ago
Comment by akulbe 14 hours ago
Comment by guidedlight 14 hours ago
Comment by lokar 13 hours ago
Buy declining companies with good customer bases, cut spending and raise prices.
Comment by SanjayMehta 12 hours ago
Comment by lokar 12 hours ago
Comment by toomuchtodo 17 hours ago
Comment by Daneel_ 14 hours ago
From this page: https://archive.org/details/vddk_20260825
Comment by Dylan16807 13 hours ago
Comment by measurablefunc 12 hours ago
Comment by dosisking 8 hours ago
Might as well rewrite it in Rust at the same time, two birds with one stone.
Comment by jijji 12 hours ago
Comment by technion 10 hours ago
Comment by SanjayMehta 12 hours ago
I now use UTM to host Windows 11 Pro on my mac for exactly one Windows application.
With the exception of suspend, it does the job.
Comment by msie 14 hours ago
Comment by pjc50 4 hours ago
Comment by mitxela 14 hours ago
Comment by vmwarestole 9 hours ago
Comment by dramm 3 hours ago
VMwware sure as hell did not invent the hypervisor, and we were damn careful not to ever claim that. The early unique IP was how to enable a hypervisor to use dynamic translation where required to work around non-virtualizable x86 instructions, we also did well with how to package a hypervisor to run on a host/share host devices etc. Over time that early differentiation went away as we helped encourage CPU vendors to include better hardware virtualization support. And the other big thing we had was just a market focus/desire to deliver value/delight nerdy users like ourselves.
Who is the granddaddy of hypervisors? It sure ain't KVM, and it sure ain't VMware. That would be IBM. They had decades of doing hypervisors on the mainframe when we were getting started as a tiny startup. They sure know a lot about hypervisors and had a x86 hypervisor research project in Watson labs. We were humbled when IBM fellow Rich Oehler came to us wanting to partner because he saw how far ahead we were. That was years before KVM even got started. The IBM collaboration, lead to years of great work with IBM, who helped VMwware get going with ESX Server. Although the focus of VMware since founding was always to end up focusing on the data center/server market we could not have done that so well and so fast without IBM and sales and GTM cooperation.
Now good on KVM and others for pushing open hypervisor technology, and any company in this space who actually cares about their users and customers. I hope KVM helps pound VMware/Broadcom into the dirt.
Edit: typos