The iPhone Upgrade Program is being replaced by Apple Upgrade

I think you're looking at this too much from the perspective of someone who wants to own the phone, not as someone who wants to consider a lease.

Leases are not a new invention. A lot of people, including very financially savvy and well off people, choose to lease rather than buy depending on the circumstances.

It preserves optionality. If you get to the end of the lease period and there’s a new iPhone you want or the battery isn’t holding up, you can choose not to buy it. You don’t have to deal with selling it or trading in.

If someone doesn’t have $400 to buy out the residual then I doubt they would have had the cash to pay for the whole thing up front. I don’t understand what your argument is.

> So the goal of the program is the same as every other similar one - they want to turn a one-time device purchase into a perpetual monthly revenue stream, while keeping ownership of the asset at the end.

It’s an option. They’re not turning anything into anything. Anyone who wants to buy the device can buy it. You now also have the option to lease it for 12 or 24 months and then after that you can still buy it if you want. Or you can not buy it.

It’s options. You don’t have to use it.

Multi-year zero-interest loans are also commonplace in high-price, high-margin specialty retail: think La-Z-Boy, Sleep Number, home improvement, hot tubs, home gym equipment, etc.

Precisely what they should have done for service revenue instead of milking App Store for the past 10 years. They should also have bundled Apple Care as part of it.

It would also allow them to hike up their price for iPhone. For example I wouldn't be surprised if the upcoming iPhone Fold and next year's iPhone 20 / XX start at $1499 to $1999.

My question is how will this roll out world wide, is this going to be like Apple Credit Card, Apple Cash and other things that is US only? Who is actually paying for the interest free loan. Somewhere along the line someone has got to give.

This is all good direction that is happening in the past 12 months, MacBook Neo, Apple Upgrade. Hopefully they will also fix the software part. macOS doesn't need annual upgrade. Perhaps neither do iOS. And the last thing would be about the App Store. But I guess that will take a lot longer.

But they're not actually interest in owning 2 year old phones though right?

They're just interest in you / 2ndary market not owning any?

If someone can’t plan ahead 2 years for a $433 expense, they definitely should not have a top of the line iPhone. When my income was low I had an iPhone SE that cost $329.

The other thing to consider, that while Apple might sell you the phone for $400 or whatever, they might re-sell it as refurbished for $700.

You literally don’t own the hardware, it’s a lease.

That said, you can purchase with financing with an Apple Card, or with numerous other financing options like carrier financing. However, leasing allows the purchase prices of phones to continue climbing while still presenting a palatable monthly payment.

I think what’s going to happen with this is a lot of people will be lured in with low payments and then be surprised with the ending “keep your phone” payment, where it will feel like it makes more sense to just get the new phone and continue the same payments.

Paying a $400 payment on a 2 year iPhone will look insane as that’s the depreciated value of a 2 year old phone.

Is a 3 year upgrade cycle for a MacBook Pro unreasonable? Would you get a lower spec machine since you were not trying to maximize the life of the machine? I know I always tend to overspec my machine to keep it for as long as possible.

My M3 MBP with 36GB of ram (looks like it was about 2500 3 years ago) would get me $945 in trade in credit. May be able to get more on eBay but I can't argue with just doing trade in is easier. A bit less than I would "save" by just upgrading at the end of the lease and this already is not the base model so the number does shift.

Especially when I look at the payment options right now I could finance that MBP about $250 on my Apple Card for 12 months no interest, or $57.99 for 36 months. and then I get a new one.

Would probably depend on what it is I was doing with the machine, am I doing tasks that would actually benefit from better and better machines like video editing and similar tasks or am I just using my computer fairly basic in a way that even an M1 machine still handles just fine.

Isn't it this:

>> His calculation was that it was about the same price as keeping one Mac and upgrading every 5 years.

It’s not just a 1 year program.

The comment you replied to had numbers for the 4 year option.

Yes VAT is a better system.

Another thing to note about Visible+ is that if you have an Apple Watch with cellular and want to use that with your plan there is absolutely no reason to consider Visible+.

Watch support can be added for $10/mo but that brings the total to the same as their highest level plan, Visible+ Pro, which includes watch support. That plan is $45/mo $450/year ($37.50/mo) and promotional discounts run out.

As far as I was able to tell, Visible+ Pro is the best or very close to the best deal for people who want Apple Watch support in the US and only want one line. You can get lower prices per line on postpaid plans with multiple lines but if you will only have one the postpaid plans are ridiculous (even before you add in watch support).

It is hard to get eSIM to work, but they have good customer service (but you need accses to a phone to call them, so you should try something like textnow or Google Voice) which helped my friend set it up.

It is not a intruductory offers, AFIK.

I check with people that come around or in random stores if they can beat it, alas they cannot.

> Financing available to qualified customers, subject to credit approval and credit limit, and requires you to select Citizens One Apple iPhone Payments or Apple Card Monthly Installments (ACMI) as your payment type at checkout at Apple. In order to buy an iPhone with ACMI, you must select one of the following carriers (but you cannot use a prepaid carrier plan): AT&T, T-Mobile, or Verizon. An iPhone purchased with ACMI is always unlocked, so you can switch carriers at any time, subject to your carrier’s terms.

So if the target demographic, the person that does not have money to buy an iPhone outright, is mugged, they need to essentially buy the iPhone outright or they get start racking up interest and fees.

(I don’t care if they say the target demographic is “people who upgrade every 2 years” instead. If that were really the case, you don’t need financing, just a buy-back program)

It doesn’t look like Apple will be going back to something smaller than the 17e. Unless you count the upcoming foldable, which while shorter than the mini, however is also wider, thicker and heavier.

Local prices around me always seem weirdly high - I sort ebay by cheapest price+shipping, match that, and that usually puts me cheaper than 90% of local listings and gets me plenty of interest.

TBH I'm not clear on why anybody outside of rural areas is selling on ebay for non-niche things.

Especially if you're someone who upgrades every year. 12 month option on a 17PM works out to ~$599 for the year vs. $1199 each year. $599 is roughly what you'd pay for each years new model assuming you trade in your previous gen each time, so at worst it's even with what an annual upgrader was paying already, at best you might make out a little better (assuming you are just doing trade-ins and not private sale).

There's no interest or fees, and you get to buy it out at the end if you want to own it, and the lease price is the same as the retail price, I see no downside.

The iUP was better about giving the choice to just buy it out at the end. This one is more rigid:

>Terminating your Apple Upgrade Lease: Closing your lease and returning your device terminates your lease. You may incur substantial fees if you terminate your lease before the end of your initial lease term. You may have the option to upgrade to a new device by entering into a new lease agreement and returning your prior device. If you upgrade, your new monthly payments may be greater than your prior monthly payments. If you do not upgrade, terminate your lease, or purchase your device by the end of the initial lease term, the lease will convert to a month-to-month lease for up to six months. Your monthly payments may increase during the month-to-month periods. If you take no action at the end of your extension period, you will be charged the purchase fee under your lease. You will not own your device at the end of your lease, unless you pay the purchase fee. Insurance is not included in your lease, and you may incur damage fees if the device is lost, stolen, or not returned in the condition required by the lease.

Partnering with Klarna explains it quite a bit. They make money on penalties. This new plan has all sorts of sticks it will beat you with if you stray off the path, so it's perfect for them.

I don't think anyone will ever excercise the buyout option since the phone will never be worth more than the buyout price. And like you're saying, this program does not make sense unless you are upgrading every single year.

I mean in any case, every option looks defensible once you've accepted the premise that you need a new phone every 12 months. Any minute differences in costs are just rounding errors. Like I really don't think someone upgrading every year is going to have a significantly different retirement income because they saved $1200 every year by not buying the iphone outright. It's really just a convenience thing, not a financial decision.

[0] https://9to5mac.com/2023/09/01/csam-scanning-flaw/