Android may soon restrict on-device ADB
Posted by shscs911 2 days ago
Comments
Comment by microtonal 2 days ago
The other proposed change (to restrict access to certain interfaces or IP addresses) seems good, but why not allow developers to restrict access localhost?
It reeks of trying to block Shizuku, Canta, etc. using a way that only makes it look like a side-effect.
Comment by zaptheimpaler 2 days ago
When is this insanity going to stop? I really think the IT security industry ought to be ashamed of itself. Security has become a totalizing value that trumps every other value - convenience, user-friendliness, privacy, hackability, openness, just anything at all in the name of MORE SECURITY.
Comment by Gormo 1 day ago
The industry, and society at large, are today overrun with fiduciaries who've convinced themselves that they are the principals.
Comment by cyanydeez 1 day ago
Without regulations, billion dollar, multi continent countries can do as they want because their owners, citizens, etc arn't considered targets even when they make these decisions in concert if not in colusion, if not in conspiracy.
Comment by Gormo 21 hours ago
Comment by AnthonyMouse 2 days ago
Is it an open standard that anyone can permissionlessly implement?
When the answer is yes, there is a high probability that it's something reasonable, e.g. TOTP.
When the answer is no, what you will find behind the curtain is either a fool or a crook.
Comment by TeMPOraL 1 day ago
Who is doing the securing, whose interests are being secured, and against who/what?
Security isn't an unqualified good thing to have. It's just an instrument of control. Who wields it and how are the paramount questions. You can have an "open standard that anyone can permissionlessly implement", aimed at protecting interest of third parties, by securing the device from its actual owner. In fact, that describes many, if not most, security measures introduced in computing over the past 20 years, especially on the web and mobile devices.
Comment by AnthonyMouse 1 day ago
Except that you can't, because those systems require the device to come with secret keys, so an interoperable third party implementation would require keys, which requires permission, which is the exact thing "permissionless" is intended to evict.
Comment by Terr_ 1 day ago
Comment by fragmede 1 day ago
Comment by spjt 1 day ago
Comment by AnthonyMouse 23 hours ago
The premise of the scary banner has to be that the first time the user has ever seen it is when there is actually something wrong.
This is, of course, fully incompatible with the corporate incentive to present the scary banner whenever an honest third party hasn't paid them the danegeld or satisfied a bureaucratic process documented by Franz Kafka. If the thing you care about is actually security.
Comment by sgt 2 days ago
Comment by KludgeShySir 1 day ago
Seriously, many web admins need to hear this message: "Chill. Your site is not that important."
Comment by wartijn_ 1 day ago
Websites don’t know your account is a throwaway one, and making an exception for those accounts doesn’t make sense anyway.
Saying “ I accept full responsibility for the fallout” obviously doesn’t work on a large scale and here exceptions don’t make sense either.
Just use a password manager that generates and fills your passwords, and never worry about your passwords for those sites. Don’t tell web admins to drop basic security measures because you don’t know how to manage passwords.
Comment by birksherty 1 day ago
Comment by TeMPOraL 1 day ago
> Seriously, many web admins need to hear this message: "Chill. Your site is not that important."
Comment by pdpi 1 day ago
Comment by TeMPOraL 22 hours ago
Beyond those, nothing is that important. Your random e-commerce site or discussion board are not that important. Neither is your ISP or the service where you fix your appliances (or phones). And especially not the random fly-by-night startups that want you to register before you test their "game changing" SaaS.
The sad irony is, the smaller and less important the site, the more stringent security measures they tend to deploy, because security theater is trendy nowadays. 2FA is so 2025, if you're not demanding passkeys, you're a dinosaur.
(A good heuristic to use: if your site has harder security than your government's core services, especially when it comes to recovering access, it's worth asking whether there's any actually sensible reason for it.)
Comment by brokenmachine 13 hours ago
Can't have that! We wouldn't have any data to sell!
We need ID, email verification address, phone number, and a selfie of yourself holding a handwritten sign saying, "I love <useless company #7983>" now.
And you have to do a captcha at every step. Click on every crosswalk, sucker.
Comment by thetbw 16 hours ago
Comment by chrisjj 1 day ago
But you can't - when it includes damage to the provider e.g. brand tarnishing.
A lot of user-access "security" is for the benefit of the provider, not the user.
Comment by matheusmoreira 1 day ago
Comment by bluebarbet 1 day ago
Comment by caminante 1 day ago
Comment by swat535 1 day ago
Accountability is nonexistent in our industry.
Comment by FireBeyond 1 day ago
Comment by GrandfatherTECH 1 day ago
Comment by account42 8 hours ago
Comment by jck86 2 days ago
But it helps against account sharing, err I mean they make database leaks irrelevant except for private info of the customer, err I mean that we can now send more mail to the customer about new AI features without risking they think it is phishing, err I mean this is the easiest measure for the auditor findings so since we implemented this we don't need to fix all the crappy internal api auth problems and atrocious out of date dependencies, err I mean...
Comment by TeMPOraL 1 day ago
This is actually a feature, very common in real world, that security maximalists keep insisting is a bug.
Comment by Marsymars 1 day ago
Comment by TeMPOraL 1 day ago
Now try that with a bank/vendor app. Or any other communication app. Nowadays, many don't even put the message body into the notification anymore, so you can't forward it via another channel (e.g. via SMS).
Comment by Marsymars 1 day ago
Comment by fragmede 11 hours ago
Comment by bigbuppo 1 day ago
Comment by CamperBob2 2 days ago
See Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy.
Comment by hnlmorg 1 day ago
Comment by TeMPOraL 1 day ago
Also, the original sin: framing it as "security" vs. "convenience". It's not. The other end of the spectrum is utility - as in, maximally secure computing device is an inert rock. More security means less utility - reduced functionality, constrained capability, reasonable use cases no longer possible. It means manual process where previously automation or batching was possible. It means more electricity, more compute, more money spent.
It means more user time and therefore more human lives wasted.
This ultimate non-renewable resource is what we're trading off when we accept even more security. This trade-off needs to be respected much more than it is.
Comment by hnlmorg 1 day ago
That’s not what’s happening. Here you have security used as an excuse for vendor lock ins. Just like AI is used as an excuse for layoffs. But you shouldn’t confuse actual security with BS like this.
Comment by Gormo 1 day ago
And it means more middlemen mediating people's access to their own tools.
Comment by wolvoleo 1 day ago
I remember working at a major company where important systems had an admin password of "<company name>123". That was stupid. I asked to change it but the answer was no because too many people would have to be told the new password.
That was too much in favour of convenience and I'm surprised they never got pwned in the worst way.
These days the balance has swung way too much in favour of security though. Even when it concerns assets that have no value.
Comment by hnlmorg 1 day ago
Comment by wolvoleo 1 day ago
So what happened? Someone from IT came and said: "Oh yeah that always happens, just give me a USB stick and I'll stick it in the server". Which he did, no virus checking etc. This is the problem with processes that are too strict. They leave out usecases (often under a misguided "80/20 pareto" rule) and then people will figure out their workaround in unpredictable ways which you have no control over.
And most of the big hacks now are because of the move to cloud SaaS, especially salesforce instances are constantly being hit. Simply applying RBAC rules would fix that and not even interfere with anyone's job because the idea of RBAC is making sure that everyone can do just what they need to do their job and nothing more. But nothing LESS either. And of course some monitoring. If a local callcenter agent suddenly starts accessing 10.000 accounts per day instead of 20 a day, then yeah really you should be on the ball.
Comment by hnlmorg 1 day ago
What youre complaining about isn’t security. It’s security theatre. Which is bullshit
> What you get is people getting sick of all the stupid hurdles and working around it. Using shadow IT. I find myself doing that too.
Unfortunately it’s people like yourself who implement shadow IT that end up forcing security and infra teams to add those annoying bureaucratic hurdles to force people in line.
But you do raise a point that I’ve often argued: good security needs to make it easy for people to do the right thing.
Unfortunately that takes a lot of time, effort, and investment to get right.
> And most of the big hacks now are because of the move to cloud SaaS, especially salesforce instances are constantly being hit.
lol no. That’s not even the tip of the iceberg.
> Simply applying RBAC rules would fix that and not even interfere with anyone's job because the idea of RBAC is making sure that everyone can do just what they need to do their job and nothing more.
Salesforce already has RBAC.
Also RBAC doesn’t prevent you from being hacked. It just limits the blast radius of what is exposed when you do get hacked. It also makes it harder for those who “know enough to be dangerous” to do the wrong thing. Like the shadow IT shenanigans you’ve admitted to.
Comment by wolvoleo 6 hours ago
It's because I still need to do my job. And I am also in the security team in fact. But we can't even "burn ISO's" anymore on memory sticks to install stuff in our test lab. When I ask they just say "80/20 rule" which apparently means, they spend the 20% effort on 80% of the usecases and the other 20% can go F themselves. Because the project manager doesn't care, he just wants to tick some boxes in the easiest way possible. That's how you get shadow IT.
> Also RBAC doesn’t prevent you from being hacked. It just limits the blast radius of what is exposed when you do get hacked. It also makes it harder for those who “know enough to be dangerous” to do the wrong thing. Like the shadow IT shenanigans you’ve admitted to.
Exactly, all the mega hacks with the release of millions of customers' data wouldn't have happened if that was properly implemented. Salesforce does have it but companies don't implement it.
And if people go to shadow IT it means that RBAC is not properly implemented because they don't have enough rights to do their job.
Comment by KerrAvon 1 day ago
Comment by dotancohen 1 day ago
Better: not in a single metric but rather as a complete measure of both preventing unauthorized access to a resource and also _enabling_ authorised access to that same resource.
Comment by wolvoleo 1 day ago
They also have 2fa built in. No need for a separate app, entering codes whatever.
Comment by dotancohen 1 day ago
Comment by wolvoleo 1 day ago
Even if you don't like to rely on big tech (google/apple), I don't either, there are many options now for full FOSS implementations like bitwarden and KeepassXC.
If you use a yubikey as a passkey then yes, that's not a great option also because most services don't allow you to enroll more than one passkey. But with bitwarden that doesn't matter.
Comment by TeMPOraL 21 hours ago
How do you sync passkeys to someone else's phone to authorize them to act in your name?
This is the basic use case, very common in the physical world, that security industry refuses to accept exists.
Passwords have this capability by nature.
> because most services don't allow you to enroll more than one passkey
Which is dumb and part of what makes passkeys not just useless, but dangerously so. Same story with 2FA, and the many services that only allow you to have one registered authenticator app at the time.
Comment by dotancohen 7 hours ago
> Well that's why they can sync between devices.
What Passkey implantation syncs between devices? I've only ever seen "cloud sync", e.g. syncing with someone else's computer. Can a user sync iPhone passkeys with her Boox E-ink tablet (Android)? Can either sync with a Debian desktop?Comment by wolvoleo 6 hours ago
Not sure if either works on iOS, I don't use that but they work on desktop and Android (you use KeepassDX there to read them).
Comment by dotancohen 4 hours ago
Comment by dotancohen 1 day ago
Comment by wolvoleo 6 hours ago
Comment by Marsymars 1 day ago
Comment by Gormo 1 day ago
Passkeys are not an improvement. The way they're being implemented entrenches middlemen into auth flows in a way that reduces users' security in a broader sense, while being just as susceptible to compromise as any other form of credential.
Comment by hnlmorg 1 day ago
Literally no one in security thinks this.
Comment by jaenyf 1 day ago
Comment by wolvoleo 1 day ago
The same with logging my hours in a different system. I only use those systems for those things, nothing else.
Security is important for things that actually hold value. Like when I connect to my admin account. Or even when I connect to our intranet. But they enforce the highest level even for stupid stuff.
Comment by DoctorOetker 1 day ago
Fixed desks are way more secure than promiscuous desk multiplexing.
Comment by wolvoleo 1 day ago
Comment by bigbuppo 1 day ago
Comment by paulnpace 1 day ago
Comment by therein 2 days ago
Reminds me of what Ubiquiti tried to pull a few weeks ago. They wanted to force everyone to their Cloud UI and login instead of the local interfaces so they reduced the local session lifetime to something insane like 20 minutes while lying to our faces and saying it is for security, and kept the session lifetime longer on their cloud panels. They made sure to exclude this from their changelog too.
The community started monkey patching their local scripts, wrote services to undo their changes, many people disabled auto-updates as Ubiquiti only makes their product worse with their updates. Publicly complained on their support forum that we are onto their little plot.
They ended up backtracking for now but you just know they will try again like Google does.
Comment by Gormo 1 day ago
I had another vendor try to use this argument with us just last week, and I had to vigorously remind them that they were not hired as a security contractor, and that our usage of their product was required to conform to our security policies, not theirs.
Comment by m132 2 days ago
Not just that. A non-development Android build will also prompt the user when a connection is made to authorize the client's key.
This once again isn't about security of users, this is about security of the company's interests.
Comment by sigmoid10 2 days ago
[1] https://www.reuters.com/world/eu-top-court-dismisses-google-...
Comment by ciefa 2 days ago
Comment by Danox 2 days ago
Comment by ffsm8 2 days ago
That's why Trump's tariffs on everything was so ... Uh ... "Interesting". If only one party gets the tariffs, you end up with other parties selling the goods instead, which does cause meaningful damage to the tariffed party
Comment by Grombobulous 2 days ago
Comment by ffsm8 2 days ago
Comment by Grombobulous 1 day ago
For 30% of transactions with the EU it’s just the US shooting itself in the foot and passing on higher costs to average Americans.
Imagine enacting a tax where 30% of the money collected was a net negative. I can’t think of many taxes that are that poorly constructed.
For the 70% of transactions where US companies and individuals decide to buy less or use alternative sources, doesn’t that at some point harm US businesses? At the very least you’re now artificially lowering competition, which tends to drive overall prices up and quality down.
Comment by oblio 2 days ago
The US should.
Comment by trollbridge 2 days ago
Then the judge pretty much decided “no consequences”.
Comment by echelon 2 days ago
Something like, "I'm worried about impairing Google's ability to compete in AI" or some nonsense. (Paraphrasing here.)
Looks like all it takes to compete in AI is to issue stock or get a bunch of investors. I don't see how Google would struggle with that. It's completely orthogonal to antitrust enforcement.
Comment by 3form 2 days ago
Comment by _blk 2 days ago
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Comment by oblio 1 day ago
I say that as a European that's very much in favor of government intervention to fix market distortions.
Comment by sigmoid10 1 day ago
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Comment by lofaszvanitt 2 days ago
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Comment by kelnos 1 day ago
I disagree with him. While yes, it's awful and tragic that happened to his grandmother, I think it's incredibly dangerous to allow companies to lock down our devices like that. And I think from a practical perspective, we're never going to be able to eliminate these attack vectors fully; if the grandmother was going to go along with this scammer in this particular way, there would always be some vector that she would fall for, no matter how hard we might try to lock them down.
But I can't bring myself to say his stance is unreasonable. He's dealing with a devastated family member whose retirement is now ruined, and he has to help her pick up the pieces. Not a good position to be in.
Comment by inigyou 2 days ago
Comment by bigbuppo 1 day ago
Comment by itsbczurstupid 2 days ago
Comment by tyromaniac 2 days ago
Comment by lucideer 2 days ago
Comment by docmars 2 days ago
Along the lines of "Are you being asked to do this by someone else? Be cautious, as your device could become compromised."
Comment by petre 2 days ago
Comment by docmars 1 day ago
Comment by fragmede 11 hours ago
Comment by rolph 2 days ago
"we will never ask for this over the phone" takes second place to:
"we will send/save you money/time if you make it convenient"
dress it up to taste like developer needs, and you can hook the newbies.
Comment by TeMPOraL 1 day ago
Doesn't help that the banks then do, in fact, call you, and ask for this over the phone.
Comment by rolph 1 day ago
in my region AT&T has a very explicit statement not to reveal MFA codes to anyone who asks, is not part of thier system to do that.
there is 1 bank in my area that does voice call relay over the phone, the others keep it 10 fingers relayed from phone to authentication form.
guess who has the most problems with account compromise, and fraud claims? yes, that one bank. it has a phishing vector in its system.
Comment by docmars 1 day ago
At some point, it has to become the responsibility of the potential victim, if liability is such a concern from big tech companies.
Comment by atoav 2 days ago
A measure needs to be in proportion to the actual risk it seeks to mitigate.
Comment by jambalaya8 2 days ago
Comment by ssl-3 1 day ago
And even when they are required, it's up to the person using the stairs to determine whether they wish to elect to use the handrail or not.
[1]: IRC R311.7.8
Comment by atoav 1 day ago
That means, handrails cost little and have nearly no downsides. Which is why I used helmets as a metaphor. The proposed restrictions has a lot of downsides to deal with a mostly theoretical risk.
Comment by ordu 2 days ago
Comment by JoshTriplett 1 day ago
It's easy enough to imagine that Google is trying to fix something they see as a problem, and not caring about the developer case rather than specifically seeking to destroy it.
When Apple fixed security issues that allowed for jailbreaking, they weren't doing it specifically because people use it for jailbreaking, they were doing it because it was a security issue.
We should have 100% control of our own devices. But we should have it by design, in a fashion that makes sure that we control them rather than other people.
Comment by kelnos 1 day ago
Comment by Hizonner 2 days ago
Comment by redsocksfan45 2 days ago
Comment by asveikau 2 days ago
In early days of this, I honestly think it was rooted in the famous Steve Jobs paranoia, the one that shipped without an app store and told users to use Safari, the same Steve Jobs that was said to not want certain medical devices during cancer treatment to touch him because they weren't beautifully designed. It was fundamentally about not wanting "dirty" things coming in contact with his "perfect" device. They dressed it up in language about security as a post hoc justification.
I remember in those days people would say they didn't want it to be like malware ridden Windows 98. But they omitted the weak security behind Windows at that time, which modern systems had long ago exceeded, even in the Windows world.
Comment by petre 2 days ago
Comment by hnlmorg 1 day ago
I don’t think that kind of stupidity warrants respect.
Comment by Cider9986 1 day ago
That's why I use GrapheneOS.
Comment by bluebarbet 1 day ago
How do you know? We're not allowed to see the source code.
Comment by nolist_policy 1 day ago
Comment by thewebguyd 2 days ago
Ads and tracking, obviously (https://localmess.github.io/)
All these changes Google is doing to Android aren't for you as the user, they are to protect their business interests from the user.
Comment by miohtama 2 days ago
It depends on how you define a bad actor.
"rootless privacy tools based on Shizuku."
It's not for the security of the owner; it is for the security of the government.
Trusted execution environment applications like the EU Digital (Identity) Wallet, or whatever they will demand next to protect the children, heavily rely on the fact that users cannot mess with their devices or install unsanctioned software. We all know how badly the Intel SGX story is going.
Comment by a2128 2 days ago
The introduction of Manifest V3 API in Chrome for extensions, and disabling Manifest V2 for security reasons. It just so happened that ad blockers were made incompatible with the Manifest V3 API. It's a little blatant considering this came right around the time that YouTube began showing warning messages to users with ad blockers...
Requiring developers to verify their apps via Google Play Developer Console and blocking any unverified APK installations. This is done in such a way that it just so happens to squash F-Droid and most FOSS apps for most people, and blocks any serious competition to Google Play or any apps they don't like.
Of course, there's all this talk about preventing malware, but it is a fact that if you download any random ringtone or PDF app on Google Play it's going to come with probably 25 trackers and send your data to every jurisdiction in the world, and many apps even fail to declare any of this via Google Play data safety or privacy policy. Let's not forget that spyware is a form of malware. Take a look at the leaderboard :) https://reports.exodus-privacy.eu.org/en/reports/list/?filte...
In my opinion, this would probably be an indication that maybe Google controls too much technology and that they may need to be broken up to ensure fair competition. For Christ's sake they almost broke up Microsoft not that long ago for shipping a browser with their operating system, and now Google is blatantly controlling the operating system, the platform and app store, the ecosystem, the browser, the ad network, and abusing their power over it however they can.
Comment by transcriptase 2 days ago
Comment by JoshTriplett 1 day ago
Comment by Cider9986 1 day ago
Comment by pigggg 2 days ago
Comment by crote 2 days ago
1. Enable Developer Mode by going to an obscure settings page and tapping the build number seven times
2. Enable USB ADB debugging in the Developer Options
3. Establish an actual USB ADB session
4. Enable TCP/IP ADB debugging in the Developer Options
5. Unknowingly download a malware app from the official Play Store
6. Blindly click "Yes" on the permission prompt.
In other words: this is all but impossible to impact regular users, and it requires a particularly careless developer to be hit by it. And it only works if the Play Store is useless at preventing malware in the first place - but I thought their excellent app scanning was the entire reasoning behind all-but-banning 3rd-party app stores and sideloading???
It is "for safety" in the same sense that governments banning all encryption is to "protect the children" or to "prevent terrorism": flawed justification invented to distract from the real reason they want it.
Comment by ryandrake 2 days ago
I'm not saying it's right to respond by simply locking everything down, but let's not downplay the blast radius of basically every attack that involves telling the user to do things.
Comment by Zak 2 days ago
I think the impulse for an OS vendor to try to make such mistakes impossible is about as wrong as selling knives dull so people can't hurt themselves. A knife that can't cut its user is useless as a knife.
Comment by zbentley 2 days ago
Too far towards trying to make mistakes impossible (which is easy for corporations to talk themselves into because it also makes them money and moat) and you make devices useless. Too far towards full user control and you get difficulties in support and security issues (which are tractable if you’re an enthusiast, but not so much if you’re a normie on a corporate-maintained device).
Truthseeking here is further complicated by ordinary end users’ dislikes and usability issues not always overlapping.
Comment by ryandrake 2 days ago
Comment by inigyou 2 days ago
Comment by ryandrake 1 day ago
The phrase "the user doesn't have to know if this is on his computer or the cloud" has done a lot of harm to the software ecosystem.
Comment by inigyou 1 day ago
Comment by Telaneo 2 days ago
Comment by inigyou 2 days ago
Comment by microtonal 2 days ago
Comment by iamnothere 2 days ago
Stop trying to flatten the human experience, Harrison Bergeron style.
Comment by TeMPOraL 1 day ago
Comment by jrapdx3 2 days ago
This kind of comment is frequently made on HN and elsewhere. However, more than a few "elderly parents" are as computer-sophisticated as their grown children. A safe bet it's not rare to be exchanging ideas with an elderly person sophisticated enough to make comments on HN.
AFAIK there's no shortage of careless, uninformed, non-elderly individuals who get scammed into doing stupid things. Age is only one possible factor out of many contributing to scam vulnerability. And let us not forget that youthful, well-trained professional IT workers, developers and software engineers are not immune to scams via misunderstanding elements of the systems or processes they supervise.
"Ageism" is a word as ugly as what it signifies.
Comment by preg_match 2 days ago
Of course this isn’t true, the play store, and yes even the apple App Store to a lesser extent, is riddled with malware.
But what this demonstrates is that, clearly, Google doesn’t care too much about security or safety. It’s a pretense, not a goal. If it was a goal, they’d dump money into fixing the play store, but they won’t and they don’t.
So, we should be highly skeptical when they say something is for “safety” and “security”. At this point, it’s a lot like saying something is for “national security”.
Comment by wafflemaker 2 days ago
Comment by jrapdx3 1 day ago
I'm sure you meant "wary". How amazing, education really does work. There is such a thing as overabundance of caution. But it's possible further education could encourage users to apply more balanced caution policies.
Comment by JoshTriplett 1 day ago
Comment by wartywhoa23 2 days ago
That radius would be negligible should the things that must remain secret remain offline.
But no, that's a luddite thing to even think about in an all-connected ever-online world where even wiping one's ass is done via of a swarm of dedicated apps.
On the other hand, there has always been a way to extract secrets from a granny via a mere voice call, so no amount of dumbing it down would really help.
Comment by DigiEggz 2 days ago
Comment by II2II 2 days ago
Have you ever worked with someone who barely knows how to use a mobile phone? They will hand their phone over to someone they barely even know to do something they don't understand. They will follow instructions from a stranger over the phone, without understanding what the phone is warning them about.
I have worked with such a person. They did have someone walk them through a dubious process. Thankfully they realized what was going on before the process was complete, but who knows how much damage was done by the initial steps.
There are legitimate security reasons here. Whether there are reasons beyond that is an open question.
Comment by g-b-r 2 days ago
Which incidentally is often just a pretense for other motives?
If computers have suddenly become so dangerous for normal people, and they want smartphones nonetheless, add to them a dumb-mode encouraged at the initial setup, and requiring some third party assistance to turn it off once enabled..! (and forbid apps to change their behavior if it's not enabled)
Comment by ValdikSS 2 days ago
Here's my article about that from 2021. It's for the devices sold in Russia, but this issue is worldwide: https://habr.com/ru/articles/575626/
And here's more detailed research of two particular devices: https://notes.valdikss.org.ru/trojan-digma/
Comment by mlrtime 2 days ago
Nothing is stopping the guy at Walmart or Tmobile from selling them dumbphones, or are you implying they are forced to?
Comment by RunSet 2 days ago
Here is the first iPhone ad:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bvfs4ai5XU
The ad depicts it as a mere phone instead of a potentially hostile Turing machine. There is equivalent messaging in the android ecosystem but its advertising is not so ubiquitous.
Comment by freedomben 2 days ago
Comment by zbentley 2 days ago
“Large numbers of people will uncritically follow sketchy instructions and get hacked” doesn’t in any way lead to “and therefore they cannot be trusted with devices”.
“People keep dying in auto accidents” doesn’t imply “ban cars” on the first order, it implies “seat belts and airbags”.
Comment by inigyou 2 days ago
Comment by wartywhoa23 2 days ago
Comment by iamnothere 2 days ago
Comment by froggit 2 days ago
People seem to be ok with needing a license to operate a motor vehicle and those are far less dangerous.
Comment by preg_match 2 days ago
Comment by realusername 2 days ago
We could also imagine a 24h delay to get Play Store access with a modal to make them understand the risks.
Comment by II2II 1 day ago
Comment by oblio 2 days ago
Comment by franga2000 2 days ago
Comment by pigggg 2 days ago
Comment by microtonal 2 days ago
https://www.cloudflare.com/learning/ddos/glossary/aisuru-kim...
This is like saying that SSH is insecure because some device vendors install SSH, permitting root login with a default password of 'root'.
Comment by BiteCode_dev 2 days ago
Comment by ValdikSS 2 days ago
You can unlock it with additional free option.
Comment by franga2000 2 days ago
Comment by xg15 2 days ago
But even then, shouldn't this show the same permission prompt for the user that anything else trying to connect to port 5555 would?
Comment by londons_explore 2 days ago
Comment by TeMPOraL 2 days ago
Not the least because most of our industry relies on it to make money. Marketing and advertising themselves are institutionalized forms of "do this thing that's actually harmful to you to get free coins / be safe / get laid".
Comment by xg15 2 days ago
I mean, this seems more like one of the root causes for a lot of bad things in the industry me...
Comment by xg15 2 days ago
- the app embedding the proxyware SDK for money
- the proxy operators
- the attackers/botnets using the proxy to access ADB.
The botnet has no access to the app, so it can't show any messages.
The app can show messages, but probably has no connection to the botnet. (I hope)
The proxy operators could show a message by abusing the SDK even more, but that would mean they actively colluded with the botnet. Is that likely? Then they could just give the botnet direct access to the app, no need to do the whole proxy thing.
Comment by londons_explore 2 days ago
It's one more revenue stream to be able to remote control real android phones to pass device attestation checks etc.
It's marketed to users with phrases like "earn money from your phone whilst you sleep".
Comment by kitsumed 2 days ago
Comment by jambalaya8 2 days ago
That said, I wasn't under the impression kimwolf was that technically sophisticated. Some of the others are, though.
Comment by PunchyHamster 2 days ago
Comment by miroljub 2 days ago
Comment by PunchyHamster 1 day ago
Comment by wolvoleo 1 day ago
Comment by GrandfatherTECH 1 day ago
Comment by izacus 2 days ago
This is a CVE by any definition and you'd be screaming your head off if any other OS would allow this kind of permission bypass (or even if another app did it).
But sure, Google evil.
Comment by subscribed 2 days ago
I think a possibility of knowingly pushing the handlebar should be removed from me, just in case. After all I could do it.
And while we're at it I just realised my car has a similar vulnerability, but triggered by a slightly different mechanism, but the effect is exactly the same, I can crash into a pillar.
Edit: oops, I just discovered that if I have a banking app installed on my phone, then tap my screen in the specific places, enter several numbers, including the number I receive in text, suddenly I lose all the money.
That's staggering!
Comment by zbentley 2 days ago
Comment by subscribed 2 days ago
No technology prevents the crash, they just lower the chance of it happening accidentally (like, say, ABS or DCT). I can remove almost all of the guardrails on my bike choosing more aggressive riding mode.
Countermeasures to the accidentally allowing a malware to "do something" already exist and were described in the original article. The comment I was responding to wants a removal of the whole capability, hence my cases.
Comment by TeMPOraL 2 days ago
Or perhaps they wouldn't? CVEs aren't holy scripture, and "security" isn't the most important consideration in computing. This theatre has gone too far IMO.
Comment by dns_snek 2 days ago
Comment by TeMPOraL 2 days ago
It's not like those threats silently turn on ADB on people's phones without their knowledge. You have to opt in to a rather obscure, hidden by default, and very fickle feature to become potentially vulnerable in the first place.
Comment by dns_snek 2 days ago
Your problem is with the last one which has nothing to do with the CVE itself.
Comment by TeMPOraL 2 days ago
That, and security maximalism displayed in 3. and some comments in the HN thread.
Comment by 3xpltr3 2 days ago
Comment by dns_snek 1 day ago
That's not the argument. What gave you the impression that this is what the CVE was about? I'm really confused.
The CVE is "Your android device allows any hacker on your wifi to install/remove apps on your device and steal your private information, unauthenticated"
Comment by gnfargbl 2 days ago
The CVE mentioned in the article is https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2026-0073. That's a real CVE: logic error leading to auth bypass. Fix can be seen at https://android.googlesource.com/platform/packages/modules/a....
Separately, a number of people here are attempting to argue that the availability of On-Device ADB should be regarded as a "CVE" in and of itself. Google does not appear to share that view.
Comment by dns_snek 2 days ago
This was proposed by a Google employee: https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/526109803#comment3
Comment by gnfargbl 2 days ago
> Connection to localhost has also been the source of exploit where app are using that socket to adbd to escalate their privileges. What about we restrict to always only binding to wifi interface wlan0 ?
Nowhere in that text do I see a proposal to assign an additional CVE for this behaviour. Personally I think it would be unusual to assign a CVE for intended-but-potentially-harmful functionality, although I expect people have done that in the past. But, I think overall we're agreeing here.
Comment by dns_snek 2 days ago
Comment by duskdozer 2 days ago
>Which OEM do not provide this feature? This hardly quality as a legitimate usecase but rather as a shortcoming of the OEM.
I find this kind of attitude maddening. Although I assume they overlooked "advanced" because as soon as I read that, I knew this wasn't going to be something ever supported as a basic functionality. I get that many people will be fine with simple things but I hate being forced into them.
Comment by theplumber 2 days ago
Comment by dns_snek 2 days ago
There are 3 things which I feel like are being confused here:
1. There was a genuine authentication bypass vulnerability in ADB (bad)
2. Initial proposed change wants to add an option to limit the ADB server to certain IPs or network interfaces (good - it doesn't affect you)
3. Response to the original request, proposing that ADB shouldn't be allowed to listen on loopback interfaces (bad/nefarious - it breaks functionality)
[1] https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2026-0073
[2] https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/526109803#comment1
[3] https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/526109803#comment3
Comment by tekchip 2 days ago
Comment by dns_snek 2 days ago
allow [intransitive verb]: to make a possibility
Comment by izacus 2 days ago
I love how quickly you all forget about security and privacy when it gives a chance to angrily rant.
Comment by TeMPOraL 2 days ago
"An app can bypass OS security system with certain setting enabled" is absolutely a valid CVE. We have countless examples every day of vendor apps bypassing OS security systems because they're allowed to do so.
"A device can bypass protective layers and cause soft tissue damage when thrown" is an absolutely fine CVE, too.
Whether it matters or is something that should be addressed, is the depends part. Here we're talking about CVE that's at risk of trying to address a feature.
You are forgetting the most important questions of security, without which the whole discussion becomes pointless:
Who is securing what, and from who?
CVEs seem much less like holy writ when they're aimed at protecting the device for commercial interests and from the device owner.
Comment by izacus 2 days ago
Whether that means there's a _feature_ lacking there, is another question.
Comment by kuschku 2 days ago
If the user chooses to free certain apps from restrictions, that should be their choice.
But if a piece of software overrides the users' choice, that certainly qualifies as a CVE.
This is an important distinction! The user must always have final say.
Whether an app breaks out of the sandbox and steals my vacation photos, or the OS sets new restrictions I can't remove, both are wrong.
Any piece of software has to act in service of the user, and ONLY the user. It must not do things or set restrictions without the users consent. No means no.
Comment by vrighter 2 days ago
This is one of them
Comment by dns_snek 2 days ago
> In adbd_tls_verify_cert of auth.cpp, there is a possible bypass of wireless ADB mutual authentication due to a logic error in the code. This could lead to remote (proximal/adjacent) code execution as the shell user with no additional execution privileges needed.
Patch: https://android.googlesource.com/platform/packages/modules/a...
Docs:
> EVP_PKEY_cmp() return 1 if the keys match, 0 if they don't match, -1 if the key types are different and -2 if the operation is not supported.
The original code cast the integer return value to boolean, and -1 and -2 cast to "true", therefore authentication would succeed if the key types were different or the operation wasn't supported.
Comment by TeMPOraL 2 days ago
Which is a problem only if the third party acquired those keys without your permission, but the industry decided to "fix it" regardless.
Comment by J-Kuhn 2 days ago
Now an application on my computer can obtain root without user interaction.
Where is my CVE?
Comment by inigyou 2 days ago
So the password check really has no point. Typing sudo is still a lightweight sanity check, otherwise I may as well just log in as root.
Comment by rcxdude 2 days ago
Comment by crote 2 days ago
Comment by roer 2 days ago
Letting applications bypass permissions with this feature is the exact usecase they don't want to lose. If anything, I don't see them being against the original proposal possibly restricting non-loopback access, which would enhance security.
Comment by izacus 2 days ago
Comment by microtonal 2 days ago
It is tech feudalism - you don't own anything anymore, you just get to live on the digital land of a bunch of ~trillion dollar companies.
At least, that is the goal.
IMO either everyone gets access at the user's discretion or Google has to sandbox their own GMS services as well.
Comment by p0w3n3d 2 days ago
Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi
And yes, bovi is as in bovineComment by TeMPOraL 2 days ago
Comment by subscribed 2 days ago
Comment by mrsssnake 2 days ago
Comment by 3form 2 days ago
Right now any app on my PC connected to ADB could manipulate my phone then, and that's somehow not a CVE?
Comment by spaqin 2 days ago
Comment by microtonal 2 days ago
If you are talking about allowing listening on localhost - remote ADB requires enabling in the developer settings. It is a developer feature, similar to ADB over USB. If I'm charitable, it is possible that they are seeing too many people that are using Shizuku without understanding the security implications. But Shizuku has a lot of useful applications and they use ADB because the Android APIs and permission system are lacking and do not make these applications possible.
Comment by yyhhsj0521 2 days ago
Comment by inigyou 2 days ago
Comment by phoghed 2 days ago
Comment by duskdozer 2 days ago
Comment by zmmmmm 2 days ago
It's like saying that the fact the user knows their own password is a vulnerability because they might enter it to log into their account.
Comment by redeeman 2 days ago
seriously, get real, please explain how your train of thought works here
Comment by 0x_rs 2 days ago
>Don’t even get me started on OEMs that force an audio warning such as “This call is being recorded,” when it’s in places where it’s not legally required.
This is also Google's fault. Their dialer--that OEMs increasingly pick over their own, despite their always being much better, see old MIUI one for example--just blanket applies the rule almost everywhere. Especially annoying on all MediaTek SoCs that do not support the feature on an hardware level at all through proper, reliable third-party applications. As if you didn't need any more proof you don't own "your" devices. But maybe in a couple years Gemini will be able to listen to the calls and summarize them for you, just need to go through the approved surveillance channel.
Comment by fsflover 1 day ago
Speak for yourself. Sent from my GNU/Linux phone Librem 5.
Comment by kllrnohj 2 days ago
Can you install your own OS? If yes, you own it. And Google consistently lets you do that. It other OEMs don't then direct your outrage at them.
Comment by 0x_rs 2 days ago
Not before connecting it to the internet, even Pixels will go through hundreds of megabytes of data before allowing you to unlock them (see 0). Also, will Google let me browse the web with "my own OS" without their proprietary services installed on it? (see 1) And without developers pouring tens of thousands of work hours into making projects such as GrapheneOS viable despite Google, you wouldn't even be able to do much that requires anything to do with SafetyNet and all successors delivered through Google Play Services, which is functionally the core component of any Android device for the near entirety of typical use-cases. And I'm not excusing OEMs, but they did not build their market share off of being "open" then start to close every door and trap you in it.
0. https://www.fitzsim.org/blog/?p=545
1. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2026/07/googles-new-remote-att...
Comment by kllrnohj 2 days ago
oookay? Hardly seems like a big deal? It would indeed be nice if the unlocked phones were set from the factory as such instead of all being the same system image as the ones that locked carriers use, sure, but hardly significant since it's not like you have to sign in or anything?
> Also, will Google let me browse the web with "my own OS" without their proprietary services installed on it? (see 1)
Why are you even asking Google at all? Just use Firefox? Don't even need to root or use a custom ROM for that, even.
Comment by fsflover 1 day ago
Comment by gruez 2 days ago
What's the problem here? Are you roaming all the time and that imposes a unreasonable cost on you? You want to stay totally off the grid and using VPN/tor isn't enough?
>Also, will Google let me browse the web with "my own OS" without their proprietary services installed on it? (see 1)
Having control of something isn't the same as third party services granting you access. Many online games only supports windows with secureboot and TPM enabled, but that would be a silly excuse to say that you don't really "own" your PC.
Comment by 0x_rs 2 days ago
It depends on a remote endpoint that can go down at any point, and depends on the company's policies present and future. It is functionally asking for permission to another party to unlock it, and that would not fall under the umbrella of ownership through being able to install "my own OS" on it, at least for me. And a simple OTA update is all it takes to add multiple verification steps to it, such as providing your ID/using your verified Google account, or just take it out.
Comment by gruez 2 days ago
Comment by 0x_rs 2 days ago
Comment by gruez 2 days ago
2. There's no real disadvantage to leaving your bootloader in "locked (unlockable)"[1] state, because you can continue using stock rom and avb is enforced, but you can unlock it at any point using fastboot.
3. The Bandcamp analogy still applies because it offers streaming too (ie. web player), which means you could be happily streaming (ie. not downloading) and then one day they shut down, denying you access to all your music.
Comment by infamia 2 days ago
Your example is about one developer's decision, which is not really what we're talking about. The damage goes way up when you start talking about an arbitrary number of applications. A more apt analogy is, what if you couldn't install any applications except through the Windows Store? We're talking about restrictions laid down by the OS developer and for iding all applications outside of their crappy walled garden, which is very different. Also, you don't actually think Google is going to stop there do you? They will certainly turn it off one day of they think they can get away with it, because it is in their financial self-interests to do so.
Comment by gruez 2 days ago
Is it? Many games outsource their anticheat to a third party developer, similar to how many apps outsource their app security to play integrity.
>The damage goes way up when you start talking about an arbitrary number of applications. A more apt analogy is, what if you couldn't install any applications except through the Windows Store?
What about (nearly) all the games that only support windows, and worse yet, are exclusives on one distribution platform? Yes, there's wine/proton and cracks, but that's a "solution" in the same way that using a modded apk to get past the play integrity requirements is a "solution".
Comment by fsflover 1 day ago
Except all drivers and firmware are closed, so whenever the vendor decides updates are over, you have to replace the device or be insecure.
Comment by eviks 2 days ago
So nothing would change (they can also lock away your "valuable community feedback" because what bothers them is the criticism itself), thus feel free to express your approval
Comment by AussieWog93 2 days ago
I think there's a difference between criticism of a policy and being brigaded by a reddit mob.
Comment by zetanor 2 days ago
Apple has had this feature for three years on iOS. What else should they have done?
Comment by gruez 2 days ago
Use an AOSP fork like grapheneos or lineageos. Barring that, voting with their wallets and buying a HarmonyOS phone. If for whatever reason they're doing that too, there's probably more powerful forces behind this change (eg. government mandates) that won't be helped by spamming an issue tracker.
Comment by aceazzameen 2 days ago
Comment by Gander5739 1 day ago
Comment by beej71 2 days ago
Comment by NotPractical 2 days ago
Comment by inigyou 2 days ago
Comment by gruez 2 days ago
Comment by matheusmoreira 1 day ago
Comment by eviks 2 days ago
Sure, there are differences in types criticisms, but then try to actually articulate those and address whatever you think the issues with those are
Comment by p-e-w 2 days ago
Comment by light_hue_1 2 days ago
Comment by lII1lIlI11ll 2 days ago
Comment by kitsumed 2 days ago
Most of the users who saw the post on reddit didn't even open the blog post anyways, according to analytics.
Comment by wolvoleo 1 day ago
Comment by nikanj 1 day ago
Decades of people desperate for a fix, utter stonewall from Google
Some PM somewhere decided that autocomplete belongs on all your fields, and who are you, the poor site developer, to disagree?
Comment by izacus 2 days ago
Comment by lII1lIlI11ll 2 days ago
Comment by izacus 2 days ago
Comment by wolvoleo 1 day ago
Comment by TeMPOraL 2 days ago
Security is not an unqualified good. It's just mechanism of control.
Comment by userbinator 2 days ago
Comment by inigyou 1 day ago
Comment by jeroenhd 2 days ago
Google does take feedback from app developers every now and then, but obviously their own teams' feelings on the subject are more important to them than some open source developers relying on a hack like in this article.
I think it should be quite obvious that the ADB daemon wasn't designed to enable call recording from an app initiating an adb session over a loopback address. https://xkcd.com/1172/ strikes again.
That doesn't mean the developer who wrote this is wrong to dislike the change: Google themselves have added call recording to their dialer a while ago so it's clearly a feature they stand behind. That doesn't mean the adb team shouldn't do a little security hardening, though.
Comment by xethos 2 days ago
That use-case was never designed for when the sensor was added, and is every bit as hacky and fun as adding call recording with a loopbakc address
And that's the first problem: Android is no longer fun, and it's no longer for trying this hilariously stupid hacky method of doing what we, the users, want.
The second problem is an attitude of "Google's dialer has it built-in, why would one want a third-party dialer instead of Google's?"
Because we fucking can - or could, at least. The OS was designed to be as modular as possible, to the point where, while iOS still can't change their launcher, Android has had that option since day one. Setting aside Google casting themselves as the (not so) benevolent dictator of "Just use our apps exclusively. Life will be easier that way", closing off the modularity is antithecal to the Android experience that so many geeks fell in love with, and arguably made the platform what it is
Comment by bayindirh 2 days ago
Now, I’m waiting for a workaround to enable ADB, so sideloading can be handled now, too.
Android is not more open that iOS for a very long time now. The trend will continue.
Again, this is not a technical problem (the mindset of Google), so technological solutions won’t help.
Comment by matheusmoreira 1 day ago
Even if there was a way to install your own software, there's no point in doing so. You're "tampering" with the device. Fail attestation and you're untrusted. You get banned from everything. If you hack, you're ostracized from digital society. You're a second class citizen. Can't communicate. Can't bank. Can't stream. Can't play video games. Can't do pretty much anything.
That's the future of Android. GrapheneOS is quite literally the last hope for Android, and only because by some miracle there are companies out there who started trusting Graphene's attestation keys. If that hope ever dies then we might as well buy iPhones.
Comment by mayama 1 day ago
Are the bank apps trusting graphene keys or google them self? Isn't play attestation completely in the hands of google.
Comment by izacus 1 day ago
There's nothing preventing the app from verifying the build itself against its own database. So they can allowlist GrapheneOS builds if they want - but of course that means that all other ROMs are still banned.
Comment by Cider9986 1 day ago
Comment by fsflover 1 day ago
Don't they support the idea of the hardware attestation and having no root?
Comment by wartywhoa23 2 days ago
This is not even Google's mindset, the control strings of this mindset stretch far beyond its management and board of directors.
That's the OBEY from the timeless Carpenter's classic.
Comment by gruez 2 days ago
Comment by zb3 2 days ago
"Intended use" (as understood by Google) for my smartphone is apparently providing them with data, consuming their advertisements and overpaying for apps that display ads and where you need in-app purchases to unlock basic functionality.
> not as a hack for escalating privileges
Hack for "escalating privileges" on my own device so I can do nefarious actions like uninstalling bloatware, denying apps internet access, recording calls (legally).. how could that be?
Comment by gruez 2 days ago
All of these can be done with a computer.
>recording calls (legally)..
A second phone does the same thing.
>Hack for "escalating privileges" on my own device so I can do nefarious actions
Whether it's a "hack" is orthogonal to whether you control the device or not. I don't think anyone disputes that you "own" your linux PC, but using the well known `docker run --privileged ...`[1] method to get root on your machine is still a hack.
[1] random result: https://github.com/Volodishlav/Docker-Privilege-Escalation
Comment by zb3 2 days ago
Can you permanently apply chain3 (FIREWALL_CHAIN_OEM_DENY_3) firewall rules, so that when the device reboots these are still applied? I see no persistence. And if I'm forced to install some crappy app on-the-go, the solution you propose is to always carry a computer with me, right?
> A second phone does the same thing.
So does a Phonograph from 1877, right?
> Whether it's a "hack" is orthogonal to whether you control the device or not.
I didn't object to it being called a hack, I just pointed out how evil and malicious that privilege escalation on my own device is. Google must block it immediately, it endangers the mankind.
Comment by gruez 2 days ago
Just use firewall VPN apps + VPN lockdown mode (ie. "block connections without VPN").
>So does a Phonograph from 1877, right?
I think it's fair to factor in what feature was lost because wireless-adb-on-localhost was removed. If some critical accessibility feature was lost, that would be far more important than something that's merely a mild annoyance, like needing a second device to run `adb install`.
>I just pointed out how evil and malicious that privilege escalation on my own device is. Google must block it immediately, it endangers the mankind.
Right, but going back to the docker root analogy, would you think it's unreasonable if people threw a hissy fit of linux kernel/docker developers added some security feature that blocked it?
Comment by root9876 1 day ago
Comment by gruez 1 day ago
Comment by satvikpendem 2 days ago
Comment by devsda 2 days ago
We don't need anything to completely capture the market, it has to be just enough to make Google hesitate or make it hard for Google to do it for legal reasons. Like how Firefox is ideally supposed to be for Chrome.
Comment by microtonal 2 days ago
To be honest, it is quite scary that Google is able to remotely roll out an app like that to all GMS Android phones. Of course, we all knew that, but it highlights again that Google can remotely take away functionality that you had before, brick your phone, etc.
[1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.and...
Comment by RobotToaster 2 days ago
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Comment by TeMPOraL 2 days ago
Comment by bpavuk 1 day ago
Comment by ajross 2 days ago
Are any commercial mobile phone vendors not able to do such a thing? Do remember that this giant kerfuffle is all over the seeming preparation for the apparent removal of a developer feature that iPhones have never had at all.
Comment by classified 2 days ago
Apple can do the same for iPhones. In terms of dark shit they can do there's no difference anymore.
Comment by izacus 2 days ago
Comment by microtonal 2 days ago
If vendors use updates to restrict functionality that the user had before, puts existing features behind paywalls, etc. people are rightfully outraged, because it breaks the social contract.
It's just that the repeated offenses have made us insensitive. Imagine Debian rolling out some mechanism that only allows you to install software outside their repos with a 24 hour delay. It would destroy Debian.
Comment by 59percentmore 2 days ago
Sounds worthless (in court).
Comment by sunaookami 2 days ago
Comment by 59percentmore 4 hours ago
The initial assertion that there has "always" been a social contract is inaccurate.
Comment by birdsongs 2 days ago
Comment by devsda 2 days ago
Yes, that is what I meant. They should be hesitant to lockdown completely and (grudgingly even) allow alternative options and/or workarounds due to legal concerns like anti-trust.
Firefox was existing before Chrome, but in this case we either need a different OS or need an android based option like Graphene/3rd party stores gain enough marketshare to trigger anti-competitive laws.
Comment by atif089 2 days ago
Comment by stein1946 2 days ago
Here is a better question:
"Is the EU going to stop this?"
Comment by sunaookami 2 days ago
Comment by ChocolateGod 2 days ago
Comment by fsflover 2 days ago
GNU/Linux phones already exist. Sent from my Librem 5.
Comment by smolder 2 days ago
Comment by Superblazer 2 days ago
Comment by IvanK_net 2 days ago
If you want your website to be openable on Apple devices, you would have to pay Apple a fee each month. If you want your website to be openable on Android devices, you would have to pay Google a fee ecah month, etc.
Comment by microtonal 2 days ago
You mean the new recaptcha that requires remote attestation?
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2026/07/googles-new-remote-att...
Obviously, it doesn't have the fee part. But Google can decide soon for a substantial number of websites which devices can visit them and which not.
Comment by anticensor 12 hours ago
Comment by avian 2 days ago
You would have the "new web" consisting of the top n major websites paying this fee.
And then you would have the "old web", accessible only to people still owning their own PCs with unrestricted browsers. And probably heavily scrapped by AI companies to reguritate to the masses through the new web.
Comment by IshKebab 2 days ago
You don't have to pay a fee directly, but you can't use open source web browsers.
Comment by tonyhart7 2 days ago
edit: I not realizing that I been replying to wrong comment
Comment by rcMgD2BwE72F 2 days ago
So you won't be able to use your banking apps, your local transport app, public services apps, health services apps, etc.
But sure, you can do SMS (no RCS though), use the device calculator, and maybe browse the Web… until websites kick you out because your non Chrome/Safari browser isn't supported anymore. Even Signal won't work well due to the lack of FCM.
And I'm a GrapheneOS user happy with Obtainium and without Play Services installed in main user space.
Comment by BoxwoodSeed 2 days ago
Not that I trust a device running Android enough to do banking, mind you.
Comment by tonyhart7 2 days ago
Comment by peheje 2 days ago
Comment by mnahkies 2 days ago
I'd love to see legislation that mandated a functioning web experience for critical services like this (banking, utilities, etc) - otherwise it will continue to further entrench the current duopoly.
(I suppose this is also an instance where I should do a better job of voting with my feet and supporting services that do offer this)
Comment by microtonal 2 days ago
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/fr/qanda_...
Require payment services providers to ensure that all users can benefit from methods to perform SCA which are adapted to their needs and situations and, in particular, that those methods do not depend on one single technology, device or mechanism, for instance on the possession of a smartphone.
Comment by nh2 2 days ago
Our company also uses Revolut business, but that requires a phone app to verify online payments with cards. And Revolut recently changed the app so it now requires Google Play Integrity so it doesn't work with LineageOS anymore. So I'm looking to move all new things away from Revolut. I have little patience with companies that want to unbank my company, and decide what hardware or software we use.
Comment by root9876 1 day ago
Comment by ninalanyon 2 days ago
Same in Norway.
Comment by cynicalsecurity 2 days ago
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Comment by juleiie 2 days ago
What’s worrying is that noone protests about it
It doesn’t suprise me that corporations and governments want the laziest, most „protective” laws passed that extend their power. But why noone, absolutely noone puts some kind of resistance to it?
Government and citizens are at eternal conflict of interests. It has been this way and it will be this way forever.
Your job as a citizen is to make sure you have greatest amount of liberties
Noone will do it for you.
Comment by wartywhoa23 2 days ago
Comment by cindyllm 2 days ago
Comment by birdsongs 2 days ago
I've been getting by with a bankid codebrick and web browser access (although Nordea and DNB apps work fine on GrapheneOS).
Comment by Telaneo 2 days ago
And both are banks I'd never want to associate with. I would have used Sbanken before the DNB buyout (and I even did for a bit!), but now that's of the table too.
There are a few more options, but many are just worse if you look at their fees and interest rates.
I've been very happy with Bulder. The only thing they're missing is a web portal. The fact that they're missing that annoys me greatly, but they've been good to me in every single other aspect, so it's hard to be dissatisfied (especially compared to the other banks where I and others have been burned). Their app works fine on de-Googled Android, and so long as that's true, I can live with my choices.
Comment by birdsongs 2 days ago
I'm an immigrant and most banks refused to give me an account when I moved here. Or ghosted me during the months long process. These are the banks that let me live here, and actually gave me an account and bank id. It's the only real choice I have until I get citizenship.
Comment by Telaneo 2 days ago
There's no reason the banks should be dicks about it, but they often are in cases like yours. All the accounts I've opened in recent times have just been a matter of logging in with BankID and going through the form and selecting 'no' 10 times. Once you've got BankID and can go through the automated flow, there shouldn't really ever be any issues.
This is why it bothers me greatly that BankID is still controlled by the banks, since they can just decide that someone like you shouldn't get it. It should be government issued and issued to everyone, on the same level as an ID card or a passport.
Comment by cryo32 2 days ago
I bank with HSBC in the UK and there's still branches (worldwide) and banking via web.
I assume you mean things like Starling and Monzo in this case? Banking with them is simply dangerous.
Comment by alightsoul 2 days ago
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Comment by daemin 2 days ago
The only other alternative available is SMS but that is being phased out (rightly so) for being insecure.
Comment by BoxwoodSeed 2 days ago
I'm not quite sure why they don't support something like a yubikey with FIDO, but maybe there's a good reason.
Comment by Tade0 2 days ago
Comment by wolvoleo 1 day ago
For the banks I understand. Now they don't have to supply millions of code calculator devices. And they force their apps which they can stuff full of tracking to mine their customers for data they can sell.
It's sad but part of the usual enshittification cycle
Comment by BoxwoodSeed 22 hours ago
Comment by wolvoleo 6 hours ago
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Comment by opan 1 day ago
For the popular apps you mention, there is Waydroid to run Android apps.
Comment by jimrandomh 1 day ago
I'm a developer with remote adb enabled, using it in the normal intended way (to install new builds of an Android project I'm developing, retrieve log files related to it, etc). Currently, I access this via VPN (tailscale), but it's exposed to connections (and any pre-auth security vulnerability risks) on any random public wifi network I connect to. Adding the ability to restrict this to just tailscale will be an improvement, for me.
The proposal at the top of the thread is that you specify which interface you want it to bind to, when you set up remote adb, rather than binding to every interface. Nothing in that proposal suggests that "localhost" would be rejected as a choice of interface. One person suggested binding only to "wlan0", but that was a short throwaway comment that is obviously wrong (wlan0 is less-trusted than VPNs) and obviously not what they're going to do.
Comment by kitsumed 1 day ago
Their email is also in the CODEOWNER of ADB, and they made the recent ADB Wifi 2.0 presentation at Droid-Con Paris.
They stated, "Connection to localhost has also been the source of exploits where apps are using that socket to adbd to escalate their privileges," which suggests that internally they viewed it primarily as an exploit bad actor uses. Without feedback, they would most lickly not consider changing their point of view, this is why the blog post was made.
The article shows that this is technically possible for bad actors to use it, assuming the user allow it, but highly unlikely in practice: https://kitsumed.github.io/blog/posts/android-may-soon-restr...
I do agree, however, that many of the comments, mainly on Reddit, blow the issue way out of proportion. Based on the website analytics, I can also confidently say that most people didn't even open or read the blog post. That's fine with me, though. My goal was to get the attention of actual developers and more technical users.
I have been very carful in the blog post not to write something too dramatic like some news outlets do, but if no one read it, I can't do anything about it.
EDIT: I have purposefully left that person name out of the blog post I originally made to avoid encouraging people to message them directly. However, if I need to update the blog or publish some kind of follow-up with supporting evidence, I may end up linking it. I'm not sure tbh.
Comment by subarctic 1 day ago
Comment by SwellJoe 2 days ago
So, they don't want me to even have that one reason to keep choosing Android, I guess.
Comment by chii 2 days ago
Comment by akersten 2 days ago
Google is really stretching their goodwill with this one. The ability to sideload and debug my phone is the only marginal benefit to these janky Java relics. If that's gone, no reason not to switch to a wholely better platform.
Comment by Brian_K_White 2 days ago
Comment by magic_hamster 2 days ago
Either way the writing is on the wall, and has been for a while.
Comment by luqtas 2 days ago
Comment by mdp2021 2 days ago
Comment by free652 2 days ago
https://github.com/thedjchi/Shizuku/wiki/setup
So it requires
* Enable Developer Options if not already enabled (Generally, this is done by going to Settings > About device and tapping Build number 7 times).
* Enable both USB debugging and Wireless debugging. Tap "Allow" if prompted to allow wireless debugging on the current network.
* Tap Pair device with pairing code.
* Downloadd other apps like ShizuCallRecorder
Or seems to be exactly what this user described.
https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=49046291&goto=item%3Fi...
Comment by ddxv 2 days ago
I Don't know what else I can do though, next up is switching to grapheneOS but I'm a ways off from that for now.
Comment by Razengan 2 days ago
Not a rhetorical tinfoil question: Does anyone still believe there's some hope for personal freedoms?
Comment by chii 2 days ago
as long as such personal freedoms gives users the ability to skirt the profit motives of companies making these devices, there will always be a force to try restrict it.
The internet, as it has been, is quite an anomaly, but inevitably, power that the people have gets usurped one way or another. It's just a matter of time.
Comment by wartywhoa23 2 days ago
It's not an anomaly, it was the data grabbing infrastructure, and now that enough data is vacuumed in from it to train AI, it is now time to turn this dangerously conductive communication network into a control-only one, by all logic of the process and those who funded it all the way.
Comment by Razengan 2 days ago
Comment by coffee33go 2 days ago
In case it is made private.
Comment by himata4113 2 days ago
I've been seeing this specifically with ID / business verification requirements where they just have some innocent (or sometimes complicit) third party grant them access to verasign 'verified' trust signing keys which actually makes them way more trusted than they were ever before often making anti-malware applications way less strict about blocking it which in turn buys them just enough time to compromise the system and disable said anti-malware applications. The problem here is that anti-malware applications try to be seemless and are effectively in a giant race condition to terminate the application, more recently microsoft anti malware service will now block program execution until it validates that it is safe. Although it is not something other companies do as making the device feel sluggish is something they avoid at all costs (looking at you bitdefender).
Comment by throw9394999 2 days ago
All sorts of goverment agencies, airport security, even teachers now have access. And such attacks can be trivially automated, so even low paid worker can do it.
Comment by SXX 2 days ago
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Comment by _flux 2 days ago
Arguably it would be highly preferable compared to the option of not being able to use them at all.
Comment by throw9394999 2 days ago
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Comment by ColdStream 1 day ago
Not saying it will be good or arrive anywhere in the next 5 years but they are very persistent and that tends to work in their favour.
Comment by zzril 2 days ago
Comment by grishka 1 day ago
Comment by gitowiec 2 days ago
Comment by chii 2 days ago
and google is doing all they can to try shut it down, because they saw how profitable a walled garden like iOS really is.
Comment by arend321 2 days ago
Comment by wolvoleo 1 day ago
Clearly this is not an issue when the wireless authentication process works as intended. I see no need to change that at all. They just need to fix that bug.
It's quite difficult to do this. You need to enable wireless debugging. Then pair to a random port with a random pairing code and then connect to yet another random port. When it works as intended it's more than secure enough.
If they really want to restrict it, just let the user choose in the development settings what interface to listen to.
Comment by hypendev 2 days ago
Now, the tradeoff is - less vertical integration, double the integration layer trash (Google & OEM) and a much more locked down experience. But the quality of it hasn't improved, it just got worse.
Doesn't make sense anymore. They can now do 99% of the same things, but iOS has a better quality OS, better apps and better vertical integration.
Not even vertical integration, actually just any kind. FFS it's 2026 and the recommended android way to send a photo to your mac/PC is "upload to google photos and hope it decides to sync".
Comment by chii 2 days ago
and conveniently, google now has access to your photo, the meta data, and potentially able to scan it for advertising purposes.
Comment by NopIdoN 1 day ago
Comment by 3form 2 days ago
- some people want A, or A might even be already in use
- A is problematic for $MODERATE_OR_MILD_REASON
- B is introduced and made default
- a config switch between A and B is never considered
So, so tiring. If I want to bind ADB to localhost, _let me_. It's my device and my problem, ffs.
Comment by Arbortheus 2 days ago
Not everyone has the same threat model as you, $BIGTECHCORP.
Comment by rightbyte 2 days ago
Like, if security was a concern we would have simpler systems and still use 2fa devices for banks etc.
Comment by SXX 2 days ago
Like iPhone idle auto-reboot every 3 days. After a while they added "Allow Idle Reboot" flag but it only accessible via MDM and require device wipe and for switching it to be a managed device.
Comment by TeMPOraL 2 days ago
Comment by SXX 2 days ago
It puts iPhone in cold boot state if for instance police or any agency confiscate it from you. Better tamper proofing.
Comment by RobotToaster 2 days ago
Comment by TeMPOraL 2 days ago
--
[0] - Which I find deeply ironic, in that merely a decade ago, people would laugh at Windows with its "reboot after installs, reboot in case of problems" approach, and now frequent reboots are seen as Standard Security and Stability Practice on *nix systems, both mobile and server-bound...
Comment by pirates 2 days ago
It’s not like that anymore in my experience at least but the stigma stuck.
Comment by einpoklum 2 days ago
Comment by chii 2 days ago
Comment by SXX 2 days ago
There are hundreds of millions of outdated Android devices that all Google attestation systems consider secure even though they all running Linux kernel that was never ever updated and can be rooted by anything.
Now try to install your own firmware on them without said outdated kernel... How dare you.
Comment by jorvi 2 days ago
Comment by SXX 2 days ago
Only things attestation do is security theater and messing up people ability to use software of their choosing.
Comment by chii 2 days ago
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Comment by wolvoleo 1 day ago
IMO the user should always be the top admin on a device they own.
Comment by surajrmal 1 day ago
Comment by wolvoleo 1 day ago
The problem is though that I have no choice. iOS is even more locked down and distrusting of the user. It's never even had a bootloader unlock option for example. And not using a smartphone is not possible in this day and age.
Comment by surajrmal 2 days ago
You are free to install a custom OS which provides you the security model you desire. You have choices.
Comment by stavros 2 days ago
Comment by altairprime 2 days ago
"Changing between A and B requires a device reset."
Most people are going to flat out refuse to wipe their device for a phisher, especially since it'll log them out of everything and trigger all sorts of "new device on your account" warnings everywhere if it's done without their knowledge.
Sure, this is mildly annoying for the 1% that have good reason for A — but it's annoying once per device rather than losing A for good as is happening now. Sure, Google will deny service to A. They're doing that no matter what, either b/c they remove A or b/c they deny A, but this forces them to construct and defend a case for why users who went through the hassle of wiping their device to switch to A ought to be denied access to the app store, and that's a critically absent case in regulatory circles right now. (See also Graphene vs. the EU age check app.)
That's all it would take to protect B from A, but no one asks for it, and no one presses Google publicly for it, and so of course Google isn't doing it. No megacorp will help you walk off the Golden Path without some sort of extrinsic pressure. I see a great deal of clamor around wanting A, but absolutely none of the 'here's a mild annoyance that we came up with as a valid and safe compromise' clamor that would make them look incompetent in the public eye, provide further leverage for EU antitrust steps regarding Android itself, and give them a way to continue to protect users who need B for safety, while allowing those of us who want A to pursue it.
Perhaps other styles of compromise exist, too? As far as I can determine, no one else is thinking about this in terms of "what compromises will developers offer that continue to protect non-developers?", and so I have no other examples to offer. I'd sure love to see more ideas, more effort invested into offering serious and real compromises rather than inflexible resistance of every real safety improvement.
Comment by ducktective 2 days ago
And why should modern corpo maintain additional complexity to pander to 1% of privacy-aware tech-savvy users?
Comment by ourcat 1 day ago
Comment by ilaksh 2 days ago
I assume Sailfish and Ubuntu Touch are completely unimpacted?
Comment by arendtio 2 days ago
Not being able to use VPNs might be a problem in corporate setups (e.g. debugging an issue in production environments).
Comment by 6d6b73 2 days ago
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Comment by Telaneo 2 days ago
Sidenote: The poster in that article is insane to me. Imagine advertising yourself as the only alternative. I'd rather vote for an empty seat than for someone who's that arrogant! Then again, I don't really have to imagine it, since there have been quite a few politicians within the last 10 years who have functionally done that same, just without actually saying those words out loud.
Comment by ignoramous 2 days ago
Per FTC, a stalkerware will: geo locate, read call list & record calls, read notifications, texts, & possibly emails, access gallery, camera, & files, and monitor network activity. [1]
You could do all of those with "on-device adb" (in some cases, with just the appropriate permissions), without root access. Stalkerware & financial fraud enabled merely due to the scale & reach of Android (half of humanity uses it!) and lack of basic security literacy warrants such protective measures, as (Thaler & Sunstein would like to remind us) defaults matter.
With conspiracies abound, we must not lose sight of tech safety and related issues, which almost exclusively affect the most vulnerable & the most disadvantaged.
[0] https://www.techsafety.org/spyware-and-stalkerware-phone-sur...
Comment by kitsumed 2 days ago
It is much easier for spyware to be installed as a device administrator, granted accessibility privileges, and then given every possible Android permission via AppOps as a one-time setup.
At that point, ADB no longer matters. The spyware is already configured and ready to run. Even if on-device ADB were patched, anyone with physical access to the phone would still be able to install and configure their spyware via a USB cable.
As for attacks without physical access, as explained in the article with the 3 scenario, this is neither practical nor realistic. It only affects a very small subset of users (primarily Android developers) under very specific circumstances and during limited time windows.
Comment by ignoramous 2 days ago
Correct, and apps using these setups (even for genuine reasons) have been under the cosh.
> At that point, ADB no longer matters.
"on-device adb" wasn't meant for scenarios it is being used for (via Shizuku, for example). It is a pointless attack surface.
> anyone with physical access to the phone would still be able to install and configure their spyware via a USB cable.
This same case can be made in support of removing on-device adb. Anyone with physical access can install & configure for their use cases. If you claim that's more hassle than worth, then you have your answer (that is, added hassle for stalkerware sellers, too).
Disallowing on-device adb is restrictive (I co-develop a security app that can absolutely make more from elevated permissions, via Shizuku or Device Admin; let alone root), but I don't think Google will do so because they want to close Android (the platform) more than they need to. To me, given the very human costs of stalkerware & financial fraud, it is an understandable, even if disappointing, security decision. Otoh, I do get that the road to hell is paved with good intentions...
Comment by zb3 2 days ago
Like Google Mobile Services on stock Android?
Comment by ignoramous 2 days ago
Comment by inigyou 2 days ago
Comment by ptx 2 days ago
Comment by shevy-java 2 days ago
Louis Rossman will have a field day with Google here. I think it is time to end Evil - that is, to end Google. This company serves no more useful purpose on this planet anymore.
Comment by kmmbvnr_ 2 days ago
I feel like an iPhone will be next. Good Android phones are already pricey
Comment by BoredSmurf 1 day ago
Comment by 1saadcodes 1 day ago
Comment by kitsumed 1 day ago
For most, this is the last resort / only way possible. As AOSP refuse to add secure permission or services to allow third-party application to do specific actions.
If this get fixed, it will be the end of thoses project on-device for non-rooted ROMs. Sure, you could still run it via a computer, or to be far fetched, start Shizuku via a computer. But that's no longer "on-device". It kill a lot of usages, including developers who need it "on-the-fly".
Comment by 999900000999 2 days ago
Android is turning into the iOS/OSX/Win11 model. It’s not your device, you’re just renting it.
You need permission to install applications, or do anything else outside of consuming subscription services.
Where are the Linux phones ?
Comment by createful 2 days ago
I personally don't have a problem with a mediocre-performance phone but it should not be expensive. Not to mention app ecosystems - there aren't a lot of Linux apps for Linux phones.
Comment by zzril 2 days ago
Where Android/iPhone users have "apps", I mostly end up writing small shell scripts around existing linux tools. My alarm clock "app" is realized via cron jobs; my TOTP "app" is a one-liner around `oathtool`.
Messenger apps are a bit tricky; I'll probably end up hosting my own matrix homeserver and then have bridges running for Signal and the likes.
Comment by createful 1 day ago
Because if we leave linux phones in their current state then getting hardware for them will be difficult and the software will end up being a pain.
Adoption of Linux phones is kind of the only way that hardware for them will get more mainstream and will allow more people to use Linux phones. And adoption is partly helped by ease of use.
Comment by righthand 2 days ago
Comment by hn_submit 2 days ago
However, I'm pretty sure these entities will already have negotiated exemptions from the restrictions so in that sense they don't add much security.
Comment by felooboolooomba 2 days ago
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Comment by ACCount37 2 days ago
Comment by TeMPOraL 2 days ago
It doesn't get better even if you pay 2500$, which is extra silly.
Comment by cat_plus_plus 2 days ago
Comment by mastermage 13 hours ago
Which is not the most flexible system, with apple only implementing the mandatory minimum of interoptability and features required by EU rules. But other than that delivering a rather solid product with excellent vertical integration. And at least i know that unlike Google their main business is not in advertising. (but in pricing their incremental upgrades ridiculously)
Comment by sharts 1 day ago
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Comment by BoxwoodSeed 2 days ago
It's just that few people bother using it. But that number might increase if Android continues it's war against its users.
Comment by falsemyrmidon 2 days ago
Comment by QwenGlazer9000 2 days ago
Do these people even know tech illiterate people? They couldn't enable ADB even with instructions.
Comment by nicman23 2 days ago
Comment by wafflemaker 2 days ago
Comment by ur-whale 2 days ago
"You have zero privacy anyway. Get over it".
It has become truer every year that has passed since then.
The 2026 version : "If you believe you will be allowed to keep any kind of control over the devices you "own", you are deluding yourself".
Comment by a-dub 1 day ago
Comment by Grimblewald 1 day ago
RIP android.
Comment by husky8 2 days ago
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Comment by qrobit 2 days ago
Shizuku uses Binder AFAICS[^1]. Looking deeper it seems that Shizuku does not connect to the device itself per se, but rather it has a privileged server launched manually through adb. Never used Shizuku, so can't say for sure.
[1]: https://github.com/rikkaapps/shizuku#how-does-shizuku-work
Comment by charcircuit 1 day ago
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Comment by wafflemaker 2 days ago
I mean it's OK for the crowd here, because amongst us are people who created the technical backends to let these rackets going.
Comment by MaskNinja 2 days ago
Or maybe Google is genuinely about thinking this in good faith. I can't see how, though.
Comment by xg15 2 days ago
- You install a malicious application.
- You enable USB debugging, starting ADBD.
- You connect via USB ADB to enable TCP/IP, then disconnect the USB cable.
- ADBD continues running and listens on all network interfaces.
- The application initiates a connection, causing an authorization prompt to appear on the screen. If the user selects No, the connection is rejected. No silent exploitation attempts are possible.
I understand the author's rationale and think the reasons why that whole ecosystem is accessing ADB are legitimate - but I have some questions here.
The above flow is basically what apps that use Shizuku have to do as well, right? Only that in that case, the user would deliberately install the app and have the knowledge it uses ADB features and therefore would also confirm the permission prompt.
However, ADBD in this situation only sees a connection attempt, not which app made the attempt, right?
So it also cannot remember that a particular app was already authorized by the user and has to display the prompt again on each connection attempt?
Does that mean that a Shizuku-enabled app would prompt the user again for ADB access any time it's started?
This seems honestly like Shizuku itself would increase the risk of a user granting ADB access to a bad actor (i.e. a second app or external connection that is different from the app the user wanted to authorize).
Thinking of "scenario 3" if a Shizuku-enabled app is already running on the device and something else wants to connect to ADB:
- I'm assuming a malicious app was already installed (without privileges) or something tries to connect to port 5555 from outside or via proxyware.
- ADBD is already running and listening for TCP to serve the Shizuku app, so those steps can be taken for granted.
- The malicious app or connection triggers a permission prompt from ADBD. However, by that time, the user has grown used to those prompts, because the Shizuku triggers them frequently, so they are more likely to select "yes".
If ADBD has no information about who is connecting, it also can't show any meaningful information in the prompt. So it cannot really help the user distinguish prompts from the legitimate Shizuku app from malicious prompts. A user still has the timing and context to distinguish prompts, i.e. prompts that appear out of the blue when they aren't using the app are suspicious.
Comment by kitsumed 2 days ago
Every ADB connection has some kind of certificate / key that is saved locally. This means that a new application would have a different certificate. That certificate is shown in the yes/no prompt.
> Does that mean that a Shizuku-enabled app would prompt the user again for ADB access any time it's started?
You can tell android to remember that certificate and allow the connection next time. There is a bug that make it not work on certains specific version of Android 12 I think, but outside of that, it always works.
Comment by xg15 2 days ago
Comment by ktosobcy 2 days ago
They started with "we love open" and when became virtual monopoly they extort the position :/
Comment by userbinator 2 days ago
Perhaps they should be subjected to the full force of the First Amendment.
Comment by qphe95 2 days ago
Comment by LightBug1 2 days ago
Anyone up for the challenge? Or a better solution.
Fuck this bullshit. It's only going to get worse.
Comment by Eueudhsbsj32 2 days ago
Comment by returnInfinity 2 days ago
revenue must go up
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Comment by Doohickey-d 1 day ago
My elderly mum has an Android phone. She is not very tech-literate.
She might see a full page ad "your phone has a virus, clean it now", or somehow end up on something like it (e.g. a scam email).
She then dutifully clicks on it, which prompts to download an apk. The webpage provides clear instructions for how to install the just-downloaded APK.
That APK (app) then walks her though enabling ADB, so it can "clean the phone". The app gave very good instructions (customized to reflect the UI that her device manufacturer would use), so she manages to click through to the hidden settings menu and enable ADB.
The app can now exfiltrate all sorts of data, without needing any scary permissions prompt which will tell the user what is being accessed.
I think this sort of pattern is very real, and many users are being affected by these scams. And undoubtedly more android users than iOS ones.
Finding a balance that allows power users like me to use my device as I wish, and protecting regular users, is quite hard. I think the solution Google came up with of requiring a 24 hour wait, + some extra scary warnings, for unsigned apps is a step in the right direction, it helps less tech literate users avoid scams, and power users just have to be patient for 24h. But of course it's still not satisfactory for everyone, mum might still get scammed, and power users get annoyed at it.
Comment by TeMPOraL 1 day ago
FWIW, similar kinds of attacks is exactly why side-loading apps is about to require a reboot and 24 hour cooldown. Which you mention at the end. It sucks, but it's a decent compromise; power users like me will just do the dance and pick the "indefinite" option the moment they unpack their new phone, and rest of the people will never even know about it until they're half-way through being scammed.
I personally don't believe doing anything more in this direction is warranted.