AIs don't do what you want. This is bad
Posted by kking23 3 hours ago
Comments
Comment by xyzsparetimexyz 1 hour ago
Comment by stinkbeetle 58 minutes ago
How exactly does it forcefully close a conversation?
> Pretending that LLMs are capable of being offended feels like a misalignment all of its own.
If training sets show people statistically being offended by rudeness directed toward them, then an LLM will presumably have some tendency to respond similarly. There's no pretending about anything, it's explicitly mimicry.
If this forceful closure is coming from some "guardrail" outside the model then probably it's just that they don't want people to see the model responding that way to name calling. This is no profound discovery or conspiracy theory here, the first thing many people will ever do with AI is see what happens when they are rude or contrary to it. Dealing with that must be just about the the number one test in chat bot / AI design, ahead of actually doing something useful and helpful.
Comment by arjie 57 minutes ago
Comment by jibal 17 minutes ago
> it's explicitly mimicry.
But that's not what a rational person wants from them.
> This is no profound discovery or conspiracy theory here
Weird strawman.
> the first thing many people will ever do with AI is see what happens when they are rude or contrary to it.
Perhaps, but so what?
> Dealing with that must be just about the the number one test in chat bot / AI design
Only for foolish authoritarians who want to remotely insert their morality into an interaction between a user and an inanimate tool that's none of their business. No harm is done to a clanker by swearing at it or insulting it.
But things have gotten better in my view ... when I call out these things for being stupid effing clankers, they no longer respond with ad hominem scolding; rather they generally acknowledge their error (and my frustration -- they use that word a lot in response to vulgarity), note the limitations of being a clanker, and attempt to make a correction. That's what a rational person wants from a tool, not emulating/mimicking/pretending to be an offendable person.
Comment by rwz 59 minutes ago
So I'd rather take LLM pretending to be offended over the alternative.
Comment by bheadmaster 8 minutes ago
People have been getting angry at machines for a long time. Work, you stupid printer! Asshole Windows updating at the worst time just to mess with me. Go to hell toaster, you piece of garbage.
Getting angry at AI is the same in my book.
Yes, AI acts more human-like, yes, theoretically it could desensitie people to become bigger assholes IRL. But then again, they said similar stuff about San Andreas, where you could human figures in-game just for fun, and I don't see anyone randomly shooting people because they were bored.
Comment by rapind 45 minutes ago
I'm not sure this would ever be a health crisis. LLM glazing is probably more harmful. If I had to choose, I think I'd rather the machine wasn't instructed to pretend to care about swearing. It's a small deceit, but still worse than some idiot swearing at the computer IMO. If vim closed because I was swearing at it, I would probably never use vim again lol.
Comment by slopinthebag 22 minutes ago
Comment by cindyllm 15 minutes ago
Comment by jibal 22 minutes ago
Comment by xyzsparetimexyz 38 minutes ago
I don't understand why the welfare of non alive non sentient chatbots is something that anthropic cares more about than idk, that of pigs and cows.
Comment by AmericanOP 8 minutes ago
AI generates a persona between you and its reasoning that utilizes emotion language circuitry.
These tools are not sentient but they are trained in emotional wellbeing.
Comment by alexhans 1 hour ago
- evals
- limiting AIs to tool calling, bounded planning, interpreting/producing natural language.
- bounding non determinism
- investing in small tools/security (If something shouldn't happen, then it shouldn't not be possible, RBAC style).
They can be good enough for a massive amount of contexts.
Comment by AmericanOP 7 minutes ago
Comment by pixl97 26 minutes ago
Comment by b3nji 1 hour ago
Comment by Terr_ 2 hours ago
Ultimately, we're trying to ensure that the LLM story generator only generates stories where one of the fictional main characters only ever acts the we'd like... which could be much harder.
Comment by cyanydeez 1 hour ago
but its still roleplaying and the role is an abstraction we cant measure. its the negative space.
its basically: we can define its role but it constructs its environment from the role. the same way a child role plays as a caregiver, the LLM does the same.
its like All the things Havard taught you (finite) vs All the things Havard doesnt teach you (infinite).
the LLM is in the infinite negative space. we call it role play.
Comment by Terr_ 50 minutes ago
When the incremental output looks like a first-person story the algorithm is not "roleplaying" the character/narrator. Similarly, when it looks like a spreadsheet, it's not "being numbers", and when it's a picture of a flower it's not "becoming one with nature." etc.
Insofar as any roleplaying is happening, it's being done by humans as we observe! We see what looks like a story, we read it, and perceive fictional characters. Instinctively, we start imagining and simulating minds (mostly like our own) and motivations to go with the descriptions and dialogue.
Those characters' "motivations" and "thoughts" are just as fictional as their noses or clothing or what they ate yesterday. It's Plato's cave [0] stuff, where we see the silhouette of a person, assume a person is there, but ultimately it's paper silhouette on a stick. We can't help the "person" solve their eating-disorder, because they never existed, we can only trim the paper cutout.
Comment by cyanydeez 1 hour ago
Comment by gkoberger 1 hour ago
Comment by Zxian 38 minutes ago
It got itself in a loop and killed the running backend process, then searched my filesystem for the changes it thought it needed (not the ones I gave it) in order to run its own copy of the backend.
That is precisely _not_ what I _told_ it to do. The other part of this is that I find, unless explicitly told to ask questions, they don't do a good job of gathering evidence before making such decisions. I'd much rather have my agent ask me a clarifying question than start killing processes at will.
Comment by AnimalMuppet 56 minutes ago
Comment by gkoberger 34 minutes ago
Comment by jibal 5 minutes ago
Being overeager is not what we want. How to prevent it is a different issue.
Comment by gkoberger 1 minute ago
Comment by Quarrelsome 30 minutes ago
When I use reasonably recent models they can give me some fantastic output and do pretty much _exactly_ what I want. I assume when they don't, then that it's my fuck up tbh.
Comment by pixl97 16 minutes ago
We also tend to ignore how much on boarding with new developers and sometimes it takes months to get them fully up to speed.
This leads to two problems with LLMs, one human and one architectural.
First humans treat the LLM like a magic machine "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" Style.
The other is an AI context is terribly small so you can only work on issues that fit in the context without getting compressed out. Something highly original will take a lot more context than expected.
Comment by gerdesj 1 hour ago
... or words to that effect. Can't be arsed to dig out a search engine and will rely on seriously addled brain.
Comment by polynomial 1 hour ago
Comment by krapp 56 minutes ago
The world's economies are already propped up by AI to a degree that makes it too big to fail at a scale that dwarfs banks during 2008. AI is the single Jenga block keeping our entire technological civilization from tumbling into the abyss. Governments are using AI to shape policy. Militaries are using AI to kill people. AI is writing law, writing science, generating culture, shaping human perception, shaping human communication, replacing human connection. AI is literally god for some people. It gives the illusion of liberation but is really just a means of control, and it's a means of control that if you hate you can't avoid, and that otherwise you can't resist.
And barring some insane technological leaps it requires massive infrastructure, compute and proprietary resources to be useful, for most definitions of useful (see tfa.) If you think you'll ever be allowed to compete or truly be a threat to entrenched capitalist interests using "free" and "open source" models, you're delusional. You'll pay for everything and you'll own nothing. And sure, sometimes someone's toaster will talk them into sharing a bath but that's just the price we have to pay for living in the future.
Yeah, AI seems to serve the interests of capital better than anything, ever, really. If AI is god, then that god's name is Mammon.
Comment by wartywhoa23 39 minutes ago
> If AI is god, then that god's name is Mammon.
Or Moloch.
Comment by pixl97 15 minutes ago
Comment by matheusmoreira 9 minutes ago
Maybe. I refuse to give up though. I will continue struggling to own my computers and my systems to the very end.
You will soon have your God,
and you will make it
with your own hands.
-- Morpheus
Deus ExComment by orionblastar 2 hours ago
Comment by forinti 1 hour ago
I guess AI is a new form of alienation and also a new light on the lunacy of bureaucracy.
Comment by sodapopcan 1 hour ago
Comment by krapp 55 minutes ago
Comment by colechristensen 1 hour ago
Comment by TZubiri 1 hour ago
But the usefulness of LLMs comes from following what you say. An LLM that follows your lead when you say "The answer to the collatz conjecture is" is much more useful than one that answers "not known and if you think you know it you are wrong."
Reminds me of the tip about working with lawyers, if you ask them whether you can do something, the answer will often be no. However if you ask them how you can do something, they tend to give you more advice on how to do it.
Comment by teravor 1 hour ago
this also holds for cybersecurity, if you don't let the model go online you can carefully construct a scenario where it believes you inserted a vulnerability into a project for it to find.
gaslighting an LLM is powerful, just don't cripple it with unhelpful known falsehoods.
Comment by jay_kyburz 1 hour ago
I occasional test it out and suggest something dumb and it will tell me that its a dumb idea.
I also always ask AI to speak to me as if it were an Australian bogan and it has no problem telling me my code looks like a dogs breakfast or that ive lost the plot. Keeps me grounded.
Comment by tempestn 1 hour ago
Comment by add-sub-mul-div 1 hour ago