Magnolias are so old that they're pollinated by beetles, not bees (2025)
Posted by speckx 5 days ago
Comments
Comment by teh_klev 5 hours ago
- https://www.zmescience.com/science/news-science/magnolias-be...
- https://gardens.si.edu/learn/blog/the-botany-of-magnolias/
Comment by mark_something 4 hours ago
But that makes me suspect that they spend a lot of time on one tree, only pollinating that tree, which would be pointless because there is no exchange of genes.
Comment by dr_dshiv 4 hours ago
Comment by cubefox 2 hours ago
> To minimize the risk of self-pollination, which can result in inbreeding depression and recessive mutations, the flowers open in the morning and the stigmas are receptive to pollen that is brought to them by foraging beetles throughout the day. When evening comes, the innermost tepals close around the carpel and trap the pollinating beetle. While the tepals are closed, the beetle deposits pollen all over the receptive stigmas. The stigmas then close and the anthers become active, covering the same beetle in fresh pollen so that when the sepals open in the morning, it will fly out and find another flower to pollinate. This precise delay in flower function helps to ensure cross pollination.
Comment by chabes 5 days ago
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Comment by 317070 3 hours ago
After all, in Europe these butterflies are commonplace, but I've never seen the American bird in my life.
Comment by neutronicus 3 hours ago
Comment by nkozyra 2 hours ago
You must have caught it within two or three hours after its arrival.
In the US we have similar hawk moths; the tomato hornworm also looks like a hummingbird when it reaches maturity.
Comment by jacobolus 39 minutes ago
Their moths are important pollinators of some nice native flowers.
Comment by empyrrhicist 2 hours ago
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Comment by cmrdporcupine 5 hours ago
I have a couple 100 foot rows of them, it's tricky to get good pollination.
Comment by mallomarmeasle 4 hours ago
Fascinating flowers for a tree though. Red meat color and odor only a fly could love.
For anyone that’s close, go to the upcoming Ohio Pawpaw festival! https://ohiopawpawfest.com/
Comment by cmrdporcupine 3 hours ago
Probably a flush of nitrogen at exactly the wrong time tho. Most plants respond to that by pushing excess green growth instead of flowering and fruit set.
Comment by pfdietz 2 hours ago
Maybe you meant fresher manure.
Comment by cmrdporcupine 2 hours ago
The farm next door occasionally grows cauliflower. Like 15 acres of it. When that happens and they do the harvest in the end of August the whole area stinks like rotting brassicas and there's flies everywhere. If I could just replicate that experience in mid-May...
Comment by indoordin0saur 3 hours ago
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Comment by cmrdporcupine 3 hours ago
Also, southern Ontario.
Comment by adm4 4 hours ago
Comment by cmrdporcupine 4 hours ago
would not rule out the cash crop farming on both sides of me from doing a number on the insects, though i seem to have plenty overall.
unfortunately an excessive number of japanese beetles
Comment by palata 8 hours ago
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Comment by cyberjar 1 hour ago
With more traditional pollinators, I've always found that a fascinating example of bee pollination that does not involve the plant taking advantage of the insect drinking its nectar is Ophrys Apifera, which has a distinct bee-shape silhouette and relies on the mating instincts of male bees in order to pollinate.
Comment by lopis 1 hour ago
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Comment by mvidal01 5 hours ago
See https://www.backyardecology.net/not-all-flower-visitors-are-...
Comment by baxtr 5 hours ago
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Comment by adrian_b 5 hours ago
Bees, which feed on pollen and nectar from plant flowers, instead of catching other insects, have evolved much later from wasp-like Hymenoptera, after angiosperms were already widespread.
So the timeline fits into the story.
Comment by xipho 3 hours ago
Were they? Sawflies are herbivores, and are at minimum share a common ancestor with those that were not herbivores.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096098221...
Comment by adrian_b 32 minutes ago
So there is no doubt that the immediate ancestors of bees were predatory, like also their more distant ancestors that they share with ants and other kinds of wasps.
Hymenoptera has split early into two branches, one leading to wasps and the other to sawflies.
Most sawflies, as you say, feed on plants. So the question is what kind of food was used by the common ancestor of all Hymenoptera, given that from that ancestor there are two descendant groups, one predatory and one phytophagous (plant-eating).
There is no certain evidence for this, but there are arguments that it is much more likely that the common ancestor was predatory and the sawflies have evolved from that into plant-eating insects.
There are two arguments for this. One is that eating plants is more difficult for animals and all plant-eating animals had to develop special abilities in order to digest plants. Because of this there are a lot of examples among animal groups where the ancestors of a group were predatory, and only some of their descendants have succeeded to transition to feeding on plants.
There are much fewer examples of plant-eating animals that have become predatory again, because once some animals become able to eat plants, they normally have access to a much more abundant source of food than the predatory animals, so reverting to a predatory lifestyle would be disadvantageous. Humans are one of the few exceptions, because their ability to throw weapons at a distance has allowed them to become extremely successful hunters.
The second argument is that Hymenoptera form one of the two branches of Holometabola, the insects with complete metamorphosis. For the orders of insects that belong to the other branch of Holometabola, e.g. for beetles, wherever there is reasonable certainty about the lifestyle of the ancestors, they were also predatory, so it is more likely that the common ancestor of all Holometabola was also predatory.
Comment by palata 8 hours ago
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Comment by rob74 5 hours ago
Maybe it's the other way around: humans selected honeybees to "domesticate" because of their versatility (and of course the fact that they produced honey)?
Comment by ggus 5 hours ago
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Comment by nephihaha 5 hours ago
Bees' intelligence relies on them being a hive organism.
Comment by WhyIsItAlwaysHN 6 hours ago
Comment by adrian_b 5 hours ago
Aristotle used the word "insects" for all terrestrial arthropods and this was followed for millennia until the last two centuries when someone preferred to use "Insecta" instead of "Hexapoda", without giving any reason for this, and others followed this taxonomy.
Even so, the exact extent of the term "insects" varies between biologists, because some do not include all wingless hexapods under "insects".
In an informal discussion, I do not see any mistake in using the word "insects" with its original meaning from Aristotle, which is also the meaning that can be encountered in a lot of old books. For unambiguous animal classification, the word "hexapods" is preferable.
Comment by WhyIsItAlwaysHN 3 hours ago
So in this case, it matters that spiders are not in fact insects in the strict sense.
Comment by palata 3 hours ago
Quote from above:
> they are by a healthy margin the most intelligent arthropod
Comment by cubefox 6 hours ago
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Comment by stinos 2 hours ago
Note there are various species who're oligolectic meaning they only collect pollen and nectar - and hence pollinate only - a single family or sometimes even single species of plants. Moreover they are usually also better at pollinating than more generalistic species especially honeybees.
Comment by yubblegum 7 hours ago
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Comment by cachius 6 hours ago
And Equisetum/Horsetail/Schachtelhalm
Comment by greenlimetea 56 minutes ago
Comment by tmoertel 6 hours ago
A recent study of just a few mountain mint species (https://doi.org/10.1080/00222933.2024.2411072) found that they attracted a crazy variety of pollinators. Check the supplementary materials for the full list.
Comment by Sharlin 5 hours ago
The long, thin proboscis originally evolved for nectar drinking like in many other insects (and some birds!); its use for sucking animal blood was a later adaptation.
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