If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know
Posted by mips_avatar 1 hour ago
Comments
Comment by variety8675 1 hour ago
Comment by david_shi 48 minutes ago
https://blog.google/innovation-and-ai/technology/safety-secu...
Comment by ashleyn 36 minutes ago
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Comment by hedora 21 minutes ago
The Chinese apache 2.0 models might be censored, but at least they can’t sue you in the US for finding the censorship line.
OTOH, the US models are definitely censored, per TFA, and they’re making vague legal threats against anyone that encounters the censored edge of the model.
Comment by nextaccountic 7 minutes ago
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Comment by jkxyz 39 minutes ago
This immediately made me think of the Sophons silently manipulating the sensors of particle accelerators to prevent humanity from developing advanced knowledge of particle physics.
Comment by delichon 16 minutes ago
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Comment by somesortofthing 1 hour ago
Cloud providers - at first smaller ones, then the hyperscalers - will follow suit, completely closing sales to anyone but the labs and demanding payment in equity/direct decision-making power rather than cash. There's no particular reason why the inference/training split has to be 80/20, and no amount of willingness to pay can help you in an event that turns your money worthless.
Comment by stratos123 6 minutes ago
A) ASI is developed and massively overshadows the rest of the world economy
B) the world still has rule of law, contracts, business, well-developed finance, etc
You can get to a lot of weird conclusions if you assume both A and B, but I think the much more likely scenario is that if A happens, B stops being true in short order. If you are a company and you have ASI, you just stop caring about business and money and economics, and your outcomes instead start looking like "you conquer the world" or "you upload the board of directors to a fleet of von Neumann probes" or "you messed up, everyone dies".Comment by platinumrad 39 minutes ago
Comment by windexh8er 21 minutes ago
Comment by SwellJoe 23 minutes ago
Training a new model from scratch takes serious resources. Post-training/fine-tuning an existing model, dramatically less. The knowledge for the process was esoteric two years ago, now you can ask a current model (one of several) to walk you through it, while building the tools to do it as you go. Several of my recent weekend projects have been exactly that sort of thing, just so I understand it better. "Let's make a LoRA", "let's generate a corpus of training data for fine-tuning a model for X task", "how can I put my face in a text-to-image model?" stuff like that. All of this is do-able on kinda modest local hardware (a couple of old GPUs or a Strix Halo or DGX Spark or big Mac Studio), or for a few bucks or a few hundred bucks or a few thousand bucks of cloud compute, depending on scale.
Scale that up to corporate or startup scale, with the money that's been flowing into AI for the past couple/few years, and it's obviously there's going to be a lot of competition just as the top model makers need to start ringing the cash register. That's a lot of opportunities for people to look at their ballooning Claude usage costs and find other ways to do the same thing for drastically less money. $100/month or $200/month is a no-brainer for Claude Code with probably the best model for coding, but they're pushing more users to usage-based billing which becomes cost-prohibitive real fast.
So, they desperately need to continue to be among the only ways to solve the hardest problems, and they need the alternatives to cost a similar amount. They can count on OpenAI and Google to ratchet up prices, too. They probably can't count on everybody, especially the vendors in China with different economics, to do it. And, they can't count on companies to look at their own usage and not ask, "Can we train a smaller specialist model that does this one thing we're using the Anthropic API most heavily for?"
I'm hoping they just mean stuff like using Claude for distillation by e.g. Chinese model makers, and not "how do I fine-tune Gemma 4 to write more like me?" or whatever.
Comment by hedora 17 minutes ago
The rest is capital intensive, and the price will approach the cost of production over time.
Thinking this is a profitable endeavor is equivalent to claiming coal plants have good margins because boilers are expensive.
Comment by delichon 31 seconds ago
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Comment by CrankyBear 1 hour ago
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Comment by afavour 1 hour ago
Which kinda just highlights how weird this situation is.
Comment by cyanydeez 26 minutes ago
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Comment by throwawayffffas 11 minutes ago
Dig that moat son, we would want to automate our job away.
Comment by thot_experiment 1 hour ago
Comment by booi 1 hour ago
This is more akin to Windows somehow preventing you from building a new OS.
Or worse yet, sabotaging vs preventing.
Comment by semiquaver 1 hour ago
After a quick search the best example is Atlassian. It would (apparently, IANAL) break terms to plan a JIRA competitor using JIRA.
> Customer must not (and must not permit anyone else to): [...] (d) use the Products to develop a similar or competing product or service
https://www.atlassian.com/legal/atlassian-customer-agreementAlso Salesforce. Their competitors are explicitly disallowed from using any of their services for any reason.
> SFDC’s direct competitors are prohibited from accessing the Services, except with SFDC’s prior written consent.
https://www.salesforce.com/en-us/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/...Comment by wincy 20 minutes ago
Comment by rhubarbtree 47 minutes ago
Comment by preg_match 10 minutes ago
But, the cost of in-house development just went down significantly. SaaS has always had a lot of broken promises. The thing is the software is never tailored to your use case, and you often have to integrate into your other tools anyway. And, you don't get to control the requirements, features, velocity, or bug fixes. Jira as a bug? Too bad I guess, hopefully it gets fixed eventually.
But the dirty secret is that companies are filled to the brim with bright-eyed aspirational employees, who want nothing more than to make their job easier and their company more efficient. The thing is they're doing it using cursed Excel workbooks on share drives. I think, in the near future, they'll be doing it with hand-rolled applications.
Comment by thot_experiment 28 minutes ago
Comment by sneilan1 8 minutes ago
If so, it's possible to built great user interfaces in Chatbots and more companies/people can have amazing agentic development workflows! We don't have to live in a world where only the market leader has the most enjoyable model.
Comment by torben-friis 58 minutes ago
Competitor companies being nerfed?
Non Americans getting worse code?
Punishing and rewarding users to maximize engagement, like online games do affecting victories through matchmaking?
Comment by notrealyme123 11 minutes ago
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Comment by lelanthran 18 minutes ago
Everything the large LLM providers do now, I view it through the lens of "how does this impact their IPO".
Comment by Avicebron 56 minutes ago
For now, I'm really not happy about this limited rollout and then turning off. That's probably the most egregious thing I think Anthropic has done recently
Comment by platinumrad 37 minutes ago
It's user-hostile to the point of parody.
Comment by Avicebron 23 minutes ago
Comment by tempestn 44 minutes ago
You should be able to know if your problem was solvable by using your own expertise and judgement, no? If you're relying on LLMs as a substitute for those, I wouldn't expect great results.
Comment by notrealyme123 8 minutes ago
It's that simple.
Comment by hedora 1 minute ago
- It says your safety hypothesis is true, you incorrectly ship, killing lots of people.
- It proposes dangerous experiments.
Comment by hedora 3 minutes ago
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Comment by pablogancharov 1 hour ago
now I understand distillation is much more important thank I thought
Comment by atleastoptimal 43 minutes ago
1. Detecting if employees from competing companies are using it and sabatoge their work, even not LLM-training related
2. Direct users to outcomes that would justify higher compute spend. Deliberately coding a project to 95% completion but designed to be losing a critical step right before one's weekly rate limit is expended
3. Reduce the quality of writing when a person is writing an essay where the argument is against the interests of the model company, or steering the user using the model for brainstorming in a direction which causes them to waste time or abandon their train of reasoning
etc. etc. The possibilities are enormous. Many people use AI daily for their job, personal advice, companionship. A model company that steers the behavior of the model towards a deliberate outcome could develop a controlling interest in human behavior and productivity at large, even with subtle influence would compound enormously over its millions of users.
Comment by andrewchambers 20 minutes ago
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Comment by dofm 5 minutes ago
Any attempt to arrest a senior officer of OCP results in shutdown.
Comment by Anvoker 1 hour ago
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Comment by maipen 31 minutes ago
You don't want to sell guns to people without some sort of background check. The amount of exploits found in the last few months have been pretty scary already.
This is just one more layer of caution, because it reveals how little we know how these llms work. They know how to make them, but they seem to be unable to properly restrain them.
Comment by tuggi 1 hour ago
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Comment by gowld 1 hour ago
That's always been the case with corporate LLMs.
Comment by chroma_zone 46 minutes ago
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Comment by CamperBob2 56 minutes ago
What an interesting thing to call out as a threat. Hmm.
Comment by cute_boi 1 hour ago
Comment by mips_avatar 1 hour ago
Comment by BoorishBears 46 minutes ago
I don't think it's true today. It's like when schools mention "average class size", where that average is dominated by classes with like 2 students instead of classes with 100.
Much more honest would be the percentage of developers who previously used their models for the model development tasks they're targeting, but it actually looks like they're saying 100% of them are affected based on the language around it "always having been prohibited".
So awful.
Comment by iLoveOncall 1 hour ago
They legally can steal it all and now you can't use the product of this theft to improve your own systems.
Comment by greatgib 14 minutes ago
Comment by mickdarling 42 minutes ago
And, they can say that for anybody at any time, and you'll never know why, and there's no way to prove it.
Everyone needs a flight data recorder to prove... "here's what I was actually doing and why it was not distillation." And now you're having to prove your innocence instead of them having to prove you're guilty, and really at the end of the day, it's just the model being stupid that they're protecting themselves from.
Comment by mystraline 55 minutes ago
Theres no ethical framework. No axioms. Its a mixture of legal, political, and public-facing 'rules'. And what are the rules? Youre not permitted to know.
"We reserve the right to lie about the models we provide, silently downgrade you, and give you blatant misinformation cause you triggered our unstated rules... BUT we'll still use your token budget with lots of thinking and waste your money."
No, folks. Seriously, local LLMs are where its at. You can run the model YOU want, on your hardware, with no data exfiltration.
And with tools like Krasis that can synthesize nvidia ram and system ram as unified-ish memory, makes doing Local LLMs absolutely foable, now!
Comment by jccx70 9 minutes ago
Comment by amdeisimncrmnls 1 hour ago