Show HN: I Derived a Pancake
Posted by bkazez 4 days ago
After 25 years of making other people's pancake recipes - always yearning for more tang, more fluff, and more predictability - I decided to derive the pancake recipe from the chemistry.
You mark checkboxes for what you have on hand (ricotta, sour cream, kefir, buttermilk, yogurt, cottage cheese, lemon, cream of tartar, etc.) and it computes the best recipe based on targets for acid, fat, salt, sugar, and CO2.
My particular favorite are the yeast-raised lemon ricotta kefir pancakes - the best I've ever had.
The math is done in a small pure-ESM library: ingredient composition to component masses and acid moles, a stoichiometry layer, and a bisection solver for the target deficits.
I'm not a chemist, so if something is off, tell me and I will fix it!
Comments
Comment by thechao 2 days ago
Comment by bkazez 1 day ago
https://www.absurdlyoptimized.com/recipes/pancakes/?have=&eg...
I'll leave the rounding of the absurdly precise ingredients to you. :)
Comment by airstrike 2 days ago
Comment by saxonww 1 day ago
The yeast and ferment is going to make it more acidic, and more tender because the gluten will be weakened. I imagine you could use cake flour instead and get close to the same tenderness, but the flavor would be different.
Comment by shermantanktop 1 day ago
Comment by chickensong 2 days ago
Keep a box of Krusteaz in the pantry for the kid sleepovers, prepare the night before for an adult brunch.
Comment by benoitg 1 day ago
Comment by Ntrails 1 day ago
Comment by james_marks 1 day ago
Comment by esafak 1 day ago
While I can confirm sourdough pancakes are quite nice, I am satisfied with Krusteaze :)
Comment by my_throwaway23 1 day ago
Edit: Also, what in the name of all that's holy - looking beyond the generator, this entire article is amazing. Absurd level of detail for pancakes, yes, but amazing.
Comment by bkazez 1 day ago
Comment by my_throwaway23 1 day ago
There's also another classic, this time leavened - the oven-baked pancake, which is a little closer to the American pan-fried, but with pieces of salted pork, served with lingon berry jam.
Eggs, milk, flour, baking powder (ratio to taste), salted pork; bake in a tall container at 180-220C (again, to your preferred crispiness and colour). In the end, you should have something almost akin to a pudding, Fluffiness depends on baking powder, of course, and temperature.
Comment by bkazez 1 day ago
I'll soon add a fluffiness slider back in so that at the lowest end, it tries to produce something close to crêpes, and you can tell me if it is like the Swedish recipes. Thanks for the international perspective!
Comment by amarant 1 day ago
I have made the almost blasphemous modification of adding a pinch of cardamom to the batter, it's delicious!
Looking forward to trying your derived American pancakes this weekend! This calculator is awesome, thanks for doing this!
Comment by alhadrad 1 day ago
Yields: Approximately 5 6 in/6cm pancakes (Serves 2–3)
Ingredient | Measurement
All-purpose flour (type 00 flower works well) | 210 g (1 ½ cups)
Sugar | 50 g (¼ cup)
Baking soda/backnatron | 5–10 g (2 tsp)
Butter | 55 g (¼ cup), plus extra for the pan
Vanilla sugar (preferably) or extract | 5–10 g (2 tsp)
Large eggs | 2
Whole milk | 245 g / 240 ml (1 cup)
Fresh berries | As desired (blueberries, raspberries, blackberries)
Instructions
Prep: Preheat your frying pan over medium heat. Grease the surface lightly with butter or oil.
Combine: In a bowl, whisk together the flour, sugar, and baking soda. In a separate container, whisk the eggs, milk, melted butter, and vanilla. Gently stir the wet ingredients into the dry until just combined.
Cook: Ladle one soup ladle of batter into the hot pan.
Add Berries: Drop a few fresh berries onto the top of the cooking pancake.
Flip: Cook until bubbles have popped and stopped forming, then flip.
Adjust heat if necessary: If the pancake is slightly burnt, reduce the heat. Cook until golden brown.
Comment by MisterTea 1 day ago
Comment by sailfast 1 day ago
Comment by gettingoverit 1 day ago
This is the second time I see a reviewer online doing the thing that was common a couple decades ago: actually doing the research.
Comment by sohex 1 day ago
Not actually measuring crispness when you self report having the perfect equipment to do so is a cruel, cruel tease though.
Comment by bkazez 1 day ago
Comment by hedgehog 1 day ago
Comment by ike_a 1 day ago
In the same week:
https://www.absurdlyoptimized.com/recipes/grilled-meats/ http://absurdlyoptimized.com/recipes/brisket/ https://www.absurdlyoptimized.com/recipes/french-fries/ https://www.absurdlyoptimized.com/recipes/miso-salmon/
Parametric recipes are fun idea. I almost want to try them, but the sheer volume of content by one author gives me no reason to trust this will be any good.
Did the author actually try these recipes? Unless the author was cooking and writing 24/7 or just had a massive backlog of publishing, it's hard to trust anything here (although I'm sure most people will.)
Comment by jamessb 1 day ago
Yep. From the site's about page:
> This site is produced with substantial help from large language models: they assist with the literature search, the drafting, and the arithmetic.
https://www.absurdlyoptimized.com/about/
> how much scrutiny did this get for accuracy?
The inclusion of references without hyperlinks suggests it wasn't thoroughly checked: they were probably put there by Claude, and as they aren't links the author probably hasn't read them (they could possibly have read them in hard-copy at a library, but given the rate at which articles were produced this seems very unlikely).
(One such reference is 17 - "Weijers, M. et al. “Heat-induced denaturation and aggregation of ovalbumin at neutral pH described by irreversible first-order kinetics.” Protein Science 12(12): 2693–2703, 2003")
Comment by raphman 1 day ago
> " Ovalbumin coagulates irreversibly at 80°C (Weijers et al., 2003), permanently setting the foam structure.",
and the paper by Weijers et al. says:
> "A strong temperature dependence on the reaction rate was observed. At 80°C, half of the protein was denatured and aggregated in less than 2 min (half-time, th), while at 68.5°C this took approximately 6 h."
So, the citation is generally true-ish although a little bit imprecise.
At which temperature range Ovalbumin coagulates seems quite irrelevant for the whole article, however. To me it's unnecessary fluff, others might like that kind of detail.
(This does not imply anything regarding the article as a whole - it's just one thing I checked.)
Comment by raphman 1 day ago
> "Cast iron and carbon steel have nearly identical thermal conductivity (~52 W/m·K), which surprises most people."
is unsourced. And the precise "~52" is quite misleading - Wikipedia and online sources report thermal conductivities in the range of ~30-50¹.
Also:
> "Critically, whipped egg white foam drainage follows a hyperbolic saturation curve: v = V × t / (B + t), where V is the maximum drained volume and B is the drainage half-life (Lomakina & Mikova, 2006)."
As far as I can tell, the article² (cited twice for this claim) does not contain any equations modelling drainage over time, and especially not this equation or the term "hyperbolic".
So, it seems that you cannot really trust the sources the author's LLM included. For me, that means that I cannot trust any of the other claims in the article (or the author in general).
¹) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_thermal_conductivities
²) https://www.agriculturejournals.cz/pdfs/cjf/2006/03/02.pdf
Comment by jamessb 1 day ago
> The angle of attack, α, is the angle between the kite’s sail and the incoming wind. As α increases from zero, C_L increases approximately linearly until a critical angle (typically 12–18 degrees for flat surfaces), beyond which the airflow separates from the upper surface and the kite stalls (DT Online, 2024).
The supporting reference is [2]; this doesn't refer to a linear releationship or a critical angle, but does say that the angle of attack is typically 20 to 30 degrees (contradicting the claim that a kite would stall if the angle is above 12-18 degrees).
So I agree that this website does not seem trustworthy. Specific claims may or may not be correct, but they're not supported by the presented references.
[1]: https://www.absurdlyoptimized.com/outdoors/kids-kite/#ref-7
Comment by kstrauser 1 day ago
Comment by ike_a 1 day ago
- First, take a look at the other articles. There are 30+ articles all with the same author published this week on topics from cooking to home appliances. Either he's extremely prolific or had help.
- There's so much click-baity LLM language: "The radial gradient: why edges undercook on every hob" "What “crispy” actually means: acoustic fracture mechanics" "What Actually Matters"
It's clear to me that at least some of this is LLM generated, so all of it might as well be.
Comment by zahlman 1 day ago
You're absolutely right. It's not just Claude that gives you output like this — it's every model.
(Ahem, sorry.)
Comment by shalmanese 1 day ago
The browning claim is the contested one, so it is worth pinning down. "
Is classic Claude-speak.
Comment by m3047 1 day ago
The Hunt for Dark Breakfast
https://moultano.wordpress.com/2026/02/22/the-hunt-for-dark-...
Comment by chrysoprace 1 day ago
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Comment by bkazez 17 hours ago
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Comment by names_are_hard 1 day ago
I find it irritating when people send me a code review and say that Claude wrote the code. No, you wrote the code, you are responsible for the code. You can't blame Claude if it's crap and you don't have to credit Claude if it's genius. Claude is not a person.
Comment by chrisra 1 day ago
I don't want them to say "I wrote it." They're still responsible, but it's helpful to know they weren't deeply involved in its creation.
Comment by DarkTree 1 day ago
So maybe that cabinet wouldn't exist without the human element but I think it's fair for other humans to feel that's not quite the same as building it yourself.
Comment by saxonww 2 days ago
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Comment by JeremyHerrman 1 day ago
light blonde pancakes taste the best IMO, but char being carcinogenic seems compelling enough on its own to warrant turning down the heat
Comment by bkazez 17 hours ago
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Comment by fsckboy 1 day ago
i won't eat pancakes that are not crispy, or that were but were stacked up steaming in a pile till there were enough to serve to everybody at once: nope.
pancakes should be served individually as soon as they come out of the pan, round robin till nobody wants any more.
mouthfeel is everything.
Comment by marticode 1 day ago
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Comment by bkazez 1 day ago
https://www.absurdlyoptimized.com/recipes/pancakes/?have=soy...
Comment by aziaziazi 1 day ago
By the way my favorite pancakes are made with tofu and/or silken tofu.
Comment by mcdonje 1 day ago
Comment by aziaziazi 1 day ago
- protein: tofu, gluten, plants protein extract, lentils, chickpeas, beans, chia seeds, mixed squash seeds...
- lipid: various vegetable oils
- sulphurous aroma: Kala namak salt, also very popular for vegan scrambled eggs
Depending on the selection, other ingredients might be adjusted. EG: lentils contains carbohydrate to if you use them for protein, use less floor and no corn starch.The tool OP developed is precisely perfect for this king of calcul. However sometimes alternatives aren't based on the exact micro and macro reproduction but on the final result: banana is great for vegan pancakes but lacks protein. It's probably it's starch and fibers that help getting the texture right.
Comment by tantalor 1 day ago
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Comment by jfengel 1 day ago
Personally I don't love a lot of those things; they taste spoiled to me. But I'm in a minority of "foodies", who find those flavors interesting, and find my preferred versions flat and boring. They are also very traditional flavors; that's how food was preserved before canning and leavened before baking powder and packaged yeast. De gustibus.
Comment by sailfast 1 day ago
Comment by moron4hire 2 days ago
It really does not matter. Both because variation doesn't matter and because weights vs volumes are not going to give a big enough variation to really be detectable.
Comment by chickensong 2 days ago
There's a reason that every bakery measures by weight. If you value consistency, and recipes should be consistent, you go by weight. You can say it doesn't matter, and in some cases it might not, but the entire baking industry doesn't agree with your statement.
Comment by moron4hire 1 day ago
Here's a thing: a given measure of flour (by any means, volume or weight), a single one kept in a cupboard, not remeasured, is going to have a different weight on different days that have different ambient humidity levels.
The tools of the kitchen are imprecise. The environment is not well controlled. And human taste is robust against micro variations.
Comment by jtbayly 1 day ago
Comment by smallerize 1 day ago
Comment by moron4hire 1 day ago
Comment by chickensong 1 day ago
Everything else is optimizing for consistency, which might not be important to everyone. If you care about it, measuring by weight is more accurate. The undesirable variations aren't usually taste, but structure and texture, which can be noticeable.
Comment by seszett 1 day ago
Comment by gbear605 2 days ago
Comment by moron4hire 1 day ago
Look, this is arm chair, YouTube cooking. There is so much variation in recipes that 10% here and there is not going to make or break any recipe.
There is zero ability to make a "universally better" version of a recipe by micro optimizing ingredients. For one thing, you can't easily control temperature and humidity variations on your environment. If people think 2% difference in flour content is going to make or break their bread recipe, then daily humidity variations will definitely have an impact. But it doesn't, really. It's the sort of thing people blame when they don't have good process or good technique.
For another thing, there is no way to evaluate the outcome as "better". Better for you, perhaps, but even then, it's mostly psychosomatic. I've doubled the amount of baking soda in a recipe before and it has had zero impact. I've never measured flour by weight and my cookies come out exactly the same as my wife's when she breaks out the microscale
I've been cooking for a long time. I have family members who refuse to come to Easter Dinner unless I'm the one cooking. I barely measure anything, ever. Even when I'm baking. It matters to have things in the right ballpark, but 5% variations don't matter.
Comment by kbelder 1 day ago
If measurements are rounded off for convenience, a few percentage difference won't be noticeable. People would be better off acquiring a feel for how liquid a batter should be, or how seasonings smell when they're toasted the right amount, etc.
Comment by gbear605 1 day ago
Maybe I’m just bad at measuring, but it’s a lot more than 5%.
Comment by riffraff 1 day ago
Are you sure it was a batter and not a dough? That would make it an archaic flatbread rather than pancake :)
(tho I guess cattails have no gluten to make kneading possible, but there are other flatbreads made of roots)
Comment by mrmincent 2 days ago
Comment by chickensong 2 days ago
As a lemon ricotta pancake and yeast enthusiast, I look forward to trying your recipe! Thanks for sharing!
Comment by paulorlando 1 day ago
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Comment by exmadscientist 1 day ago
Seriously though, it's a good format! It works!
Comment by zahlman 1 day ago
What if I have bottled lemon juice and can't zest an actual lemon?
Also I hoped to see heavy cream listed as an ingredient.
Comment by Finnucane 2 days ago
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Comment by ninalanyon 1 day ago
Interesting nonetheless.
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Comment by aaronbrethorst 1 day ago
this is the go-to recipe in my home. You can sub in GF flour (Bob's 1:1) and they're consistently excellent. https://smittenkitchen.com/2011/06/blueberry-yogurt-multigra...
[1] so I can enjoy it!
Comment by seszett 1 day ago
Anyway, I'm more interested into good flour blends, from wheat, buckwheat to rice and tapioca flour. Flour can make everything different but it can also make pancakes pretty much impossible to bake correctly if it's not the right blend, and I find it difficult to predict.
Comment by bkazez 1 day ago
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Comment by martythemaniak 1 day ago
Source: Frank Proto's pancakes
Comment by jebarker 1 day ago
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Comment by bsder 1 day ago
I use buttermilk powder for quite a few recipes so that I can control the liquid content independently of the acid and fat content.
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Comment by elchief 1 day ago
https://www.seriouseats.com/light-and-fluffy-pancakes-recipe
Comment by Hobadee 1 day ago
Isn't this the point of a pancake? To get as much maple syrup into your body as possible?
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Comment by losvedir 1 day ago
The only real answer is to make a bunch of pancakes and get feedback from the people eating them.