Ian's Secure Shoelace Knot

Posted by mooreds 5 days ago

Comments

Comment by jonathanlydall 5 days ago

I only realized in my 30s that I had been tying my shoelaces wrong my whole life and a super minor change in my method has changed them from coming undone multiple times per day (unless double knotted), to instead staying tied the whole day with just a standard shoelace knot [0] (also on Ian's site).

This article's web page actually has the essential note:

> NOTE: If your finished knot comes out crooked (eg. loops pointing heel-to-toe), it's probably because you tie your Starting Knot the opposite way to mine. This will result in an un-balanced knot, which sits crooked and comes undone more easily. See my Granny Knot page for more information.

Back when I still used to browse Imgur, there was a post illustrating how to identify and fix this easy to make mistake. It turns out that I was starting with the lace left-over-right as opposed to right-over-left (or vice-versa, not sure off-hand).

This quite literally changed my life, just a small muscle memory tweak and now my laces easily stay tied the whole day with a regular knot which is also super easy to release as well.

[0]: https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/standardknot.htm

Edit:

I see he has a page dedicated to this mistake here: https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/grannyknot.htm

Comment by kenmacd 5 days ago

Learning this has also changed my life, but maybe not for the better. Now every time I see someone I know and their shoes are tied in a granny knot I have to waste a bunch of calories deciding if they'd appreciate me telling them.

Comment by sholladay 5 days ago

I encounter this all the time, I just want to help people and pass along things I’ve learned but it’s not always received well. For sure, many adults would not want to be told how to tie their shoelaces.

My only advice is to start by approaching the problem. “Hey, do your shoelaces come untied often?”

Comment by nunez 5 days ago

OMG same!

It's like when you learn how to roll up headphone wires or properly clean glasses.

The temptation to do it for others (and get rejected) is way too high.

Comment by itintheory 5 days ago

Gonna need a description of the correct way to do these things. I have a feeling I'll be one of today's lucky 10,000.

Comment by SturgeonsLaw 5 days ago

Rolling up headphone wires (or any wires) works best when you create a looped bundle and alternate between overhand and underhand. It stops it from getting twisted and tangled. When done right, you can hold one end, throw the under end, and it all unfurls neatly.

Learned this from a theatre stagehand and have been using it ever since.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=CYdu7aW_pm8

Comment by whitepoplar 5 days ago

Wait, how do you properly clean glasses?

Comment by MarkusWandel 5 days ago

Maybe this isn't proper, but, what I do is wet them, rub them with a tiny amount of dish soap, then rinse them under the hot water tap.

Then blow the droplets off both sides and let the rest air dry. We have soft water here, so no water spots. No rubbing dry with any kind of cloth.

Comment by tharkun__ 5 days ago

Tap water if chlorinated is not great for the coatings on modern glasses I've been told. YMMV if you're not in such a place.

I mix my own spray bottles from dish soap, non chlorinated water and a bit of rubbing alcohol actually. Water is softened.

Comment by keane 4 days ago

The Spectacle Factory recommends, in order, (1) warm water and a microfiber cloth, (2) Zeiss lens wipes, or (3) an ultrasonic bath: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4lJ_5Tg9Ms

They recommend (v=5FUUgO95sb4) against both detergent for the sake of the lens coatings and against sprays which may cause grease to accumulate around the lens rim.

Comment by OneLeggedCat 3 days ago

If you're the kind of person who has bought a dozen pairs of cheap Zenni's... the lens coating gets visibly damaged every time I've used hand soap on them. I now just blast them with hot water and wipe dry with a lens cloth. I don't know whether hand soap is a problem for more expensive brands, but it definitely is for Zenni's.

Comment by tcoff91 5 days ago

I don't have soft water so i blot the lenses dry with lens paper. Works amazingly and my lenses last so long since i switched to the dish soap method.

Comment by LVB 5 days ago

40+ year glasses wearer here who learned this perhaps only 10 years ago, I think this is the correct way. The one annoying part is the difference that the glass coating makes. The water just falls off some of my glasses with barely as much as a light tap. Others length tend to hang onto the water in beads, so I have to actually wait for it to dry (or walk around with water spots, which I also do when impatient...)

Comment by alfiedotwtf 4 days ago

I’ve been wearing glasses for just under 30 years, and only last month I decided to actually try and clean my glasses with the tiny microfibres cloth they give you when you buy a pair of glasses rather than throwing it out because it gets annoying in your case because you just use your t-shirt… I’m not a 100% microfibre guy

Comment by tcoff91 5 days ago

Use lens paper to blot the water off.

Comment by bookofjoe 5 days ago

Zeiss Lens Wipes. Apple’s Vision Pro care instructions specifies them.

Comment by nunez 4 days ago

Good in a pinch; better to use microfiber, as stated by Zeiss themselves: https://www.zeiss.com/vision-care/us/eye-health-and-care/hea...

Comment by seb1204 5 days ago

Nicely done Zeiss

Comment by nunez 5 days ago

Use a clean microfiber cloth. ANYTHING ELSE will scratch your lenses up. (This is probably the most common no-no I see. People will clean their glasses with anything on them and smudge/scratch them instead.)

Two cloths are ideal: one for cleaning and another for polishing.

If you're using soap and water, apply a tiny amount of soap onto both sides of the lens --- less than a grain of rice --- then apply water and rub with your fingers until clean. Skip to polish step.

If using cleaner, spray cleaner onto the cloth, NOT onto the lens. Spray onto one side of the cloth so that you have a wet side and a dry side.

(You can use water instead of cleaner in a pinch.)

Three passes.

First pass: with wet side, wipe lens in lines from top of frame to bottom. NOT in circles. (You'll spread the dirt around this way, making the cleaning process take way longer and potentially introducing scratches.)

Second pass: Repeat first pass with dry side of cloth.

Repeat first and second passes until lenses look mostly clear.

Third pass, if you have a polishing cloth: Wipe polishing clothes in circles until lenses are clear.

Your lenses will last forever if cleaned this way.

The cleaner steps above also work on any glass surface, like laptop screens or car windows.

Comment by coldtea 5 days ago

>Use a clean microfiber cloth. ANYTHING ELSE will scratch your lenses up.

No, it wont. I'm cleaning mine for decades with anything at hand (cotton shirts, napkins, etc) and not a scratch.

And of course there's the little fact that microfiber cloth is a recent synthetic thing. People used cotton and linen squares, or chamois leather ones if they felt fancy, to clean their glasses.

Comment by nunez 4 days ago

yes they do. it's not so much the cotton fabric that will scratch your lenses; it's the dirt on them. cotton weaves leave bigger holes for dirt to get caught in; much much bigger than microfiber, which is why it's best for the job.

Comment by codesnik 5 days ago

but glasses were made of glass, and nowadays most are plastic.

Comment by Kirby64 5 days ago

They’re also typically covered in hard anti reflective coatings. Making them similar to glass in scratch resistance.

Comment by coldtea 5 days ago

You can trivially get glass lenses nowadays. It's a prescription option.

In any case, no scratches on my non-glass eyewear either.

Comment by nunez 4 days ago

most cheap ones, yes.

if you have vision benefits in the US, you can get glasses with glass lenses for free or heavily discounted

the best optics are glass

Comment by eudamoniac 5 days ago

I don't know why people say this. When I wore glasses I cleaned them with my cotton shirts for over a decade and they didn't get scratched up, at all. I don't see how cotton would scratch glass to begin with.

Comment by varjag 5 days ago

Usually it's not the fabric but trapped dust that scratches the coating when you wipe.

Comment by eudamoniac 5 days ago

Dust is harder than hard plastic?

Comment by varjag 5 days ago

Good glasses are in fact glass with PVD coating, that's where the scratches show up. And yes dust particles are often very hard.

Comment by dpark 5 days ago

Very few people wear actual glass lenses. They are something like 1-2% of the market from what I can tell. Everyone else wears plastic lenses, which are much lighter and thus more comfortable to wear. Also slightly safer due to much reduced risk of shattering with plastic lenses. I've never even had an optometrist offer glass lenses. I think you'd have to specifically ask for them.

But yeah, dust can also definitely scratch the coatings on glass lenses, too.

Comment by varjag 5 days ago

Are we still talking about glasses, not contacts right? Because everyone over here (Norway) gets glass lenses in glasses on prescription. They are much better optical quality and not uncomfortable in the slightest, and can be customized to individual vision. Mine have glass from Rodenstock, a long time camera lens supplier but other vendors like Zeiss or Swarowski are common too.

You can always tell if it's glass by tint of PVD coating. Polycarbonate or acrylic lenses can't be coated. Plastic's only advantage is low manufacturing cost.

Comment by dpark 4 days ago

I have no idea what is common in Norway, but Rodenstock’s English website also says plastic is more common.

Today plastic lenses are considered “State of the Art” and are found in most spectacles.

https://www.rodenstock.com/journal/plastic-vs-mineral-glass

> You can always tell if it's glass by tint of PVD coating. Polycarbonate or acrylic lenses can't be coated.

This not true. Plastic can absolutely be PVD coated. You can buy cheap sunglasses with PVD mirror coatings on plastic lenses. I’m pretty sure Rodenstock’s own plastic coatings (e.g. “Rodenstock technology Solitaire® Protect Plus 2”) are also a PVD process.

> Plastic's only advantage is low manufacturing cost.

And weight. And shatter resistance. And higher refractive index options.

Comment by eudamoniac 4 days ago

In USA I've been told by multiple glasses sellers (wrongly, but they believed it) that no companies sell glass lenses anymore. It's apparently rare enough that a lot of stores think it doesn't exist.

Comment by dpark 5 days ago

A large amount of dust is essentially powdered rock, which absolutely is harder than the plastic you would generally find in optical lenses.

Comment by dpark 5 days ago

They live in an imaginary world where no one ever cleaned glasses until microfiber cloths were widely available.

To clean glasses safely you basically need a soft, clean cloth. Cotton is totally fine. You could get away with a soft clean sponge, too. Or even a soft-ish piece of paper (which is what most disposable lens words are.)

Comment by dredmorbius 4 days ago

There is lens-cleaning paper (I used to use this in photgraphy), and facial tissue-grade paper.

The latter does tend to scratch over time, if perhaps only slighly, but the damage can accumulate.

I'm on team soft-cotton, with a very-well-worn bandana serving as my usual cleaning material, plastic lenses, no scratches.

Another sin, for glasses, is laying them lens-down, or face-up, on surfaces when not in use. Lens-down of course grinds the lens into whatever is on the surface. Face-up, as you'd wear them, is vulnerable to flipping over (most glasses are top-heavy), so upside down is preferable. Or folded, with the earpieces down and lenses up. In a case is of course preferable to either.

Leaving glasses randomly on chairs, sofas, beds, etc., is also an invitation to catastrophe.

I've lived with people doing many of the above, and their glasses were perpetually scratched and damaged. Given the high cost of a new pair for many of them, this was ... curious.

Comment by dpark 4 days ago

It’s certainly possible that facial tissue is more likely to have contaminants that could scratch lenses.

A lot of facial tissue also has lotion, which means it just smears glasses anyway.

Comment by coldtea 5 days ago

Most believe whatever marketing material or sponsored "expert" advice is presented to them for "proper care", without actually checking. At least glasses clenaning is a harmless area - people do the same for supplements, diets, and all kinds of health advice too.

Comment by seb1204 5 days ago

Yea, this reads very meticulous to me. I clean my glasses under running hot water and the micro fibre cloth. I wash the micro fibre cloth with dish soap from time to time. In a bind I clean the glass with any clean fabric that feels soft.

Comment by calmbonsai 5 days ago

The thing about many of the "proper" headphone roll-ups is they are dependent on a particular level of minimum bending radius, tension tolerance, and elastic deformation in the cords.

To put it more simply, many of them will simply ruin your headphones if they're done with reasonable frequency.

For thin earbud type cords, just coil them loosely in a small plastic bag or use a loose bundle secured with a broad velcro strap.

Comment by sublinear 5 days ago

I bought a giant pack of velcro straps on amazon several years ago and added at least one to every single wire or cable I use.

It made a massive difference in my quality of life and I still have so many velcro straps that I find myself giving them away.

Comment by susiecambria 5 days ago

They make fantastic stocking stuffers if you celebrate Christmas.

Comment by calmbonsai 5 days ago

Velcro Santa! ;)

Comment by garettmd 5 days ago

Please explain. I want to know if I'm doing those 2 things correctly...

Comment by sanderjd 5 days ago

On the bright side, burning calories!

Comment by dieselgate 5 days ago

I've been using Ian's for the past few months since it was last posted here. It's quite good to the point I prefer it but wouldn't say it's changed my life.

Comment by jonathanlydall 5 days ago

I have this problem too!

It could make their lives so much better, but kind of awkward to broach. Perhaps sholladay‘s advice will work well.

Comment by gcanyon 5 days ago

> deciding if they'd appreciate me telling them

This is me daily.

Comment by kgwxd 5 days ago

Don't tell them. Just use the information to silently judge everything they say or do, and have ever said or done. It's gotten me where I am today.

Comment by twodave 5 days ago

I tried writing a similar comment. Yours is much clearer. This 100%. As a runner I used to have to re-tie multiple times per run. I corrected my mistake with this same fix probably a decade ago and haven’t had a loose shoelace since.

Comment by zimpenfish 5 days ago

Back when I was running, I used the "lace lock" method[0] because a loose heel would drive me to distraction (and because I wore clown shoes with wide toe boxes, there's no pressure from the front to keep the foot stable.)

[0] e.g. https://www.coachweb.com/gear/running-gear/heel-lock-lacing-...

Comment by twodave 5 days ago

For sure. I've taken to using a similar method over the last couple of years as I've increased miles and needed to take steps (ha) to take better care of my feet over longer distances. I wouldn't recommend this setup for more active sports with lots of change of direction, but for steady plodding it provides a very consistent and dependable stride for a lot of miles.

Comment by dzhiurgis 5 days ago

I learning this on sailing trip, reefing knot is simply shoelace knot, but you need to make sure each loop is opposing. Game change. And then you learn about bowline.

Comment by alt227 5 days ago

> coming undone multiple times per day (unless double knotted)

You have bad laces. I thought this too before I tried different laces. Turns out different tensions and elasticities give different strengths of knots.

For example I have some military boots which came with slightly stretchy laces. They NEVER come undone, ever. They were the first pair that switched me on to this, and since then I have always bought laces with slight stretch to them, and the knots always stay done up.

In contrast when you buy a pair of fashion trainers, the laces in them are usually terrible and come undone several times per day as you have noted.

Comment by jonathanlydall 5 days ago

No, it had absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the laces.

It was because I was essentially tying a granny knot instead of a reef knot and anyone who knows anything about knots would realize that of course they would keep coming undone.

And for the record, since learning how to tie the correct knot (over 10 years ago now), I’ve had no problem with laces that have come with any of the following brands of shoes:

- Nike

- New Balance

- Asics

- Converse

- Vans

Comment by alt227 3 days ago

Lol, the fact you are name checking trainer brands in a conversation about lace quality tells all.

A single granny knot suffices fine with decent quality laces.

The ones that come with trainers are trash.

Comment by jonathanlydall 2 days ago

But a standard shoelace knot is just so much better, not only can it hold for an entire day (even on, according to you, "bad" shoelaces), but its slip release makes it instant to untie at the end of the day.

Before when I used a granny knot, shoelaces were a regular nuisance for me, but since switching to a reef knot over a decade ago they have not been at all, and I have never had to buy other shoelaces either.

It confuses me that you seem to be defending the granny knot which is objectively worse in every way and you come across as wilfully stubborn to your own detriment.

Comment by alt227 2 days ago

> Before when I used a granny knot, shoelaces were a regular nuisance for me

I know, you must have said this 2 or 3 times, and you are calling me stubborn?!

I'm defending the granny knot because its great. Its what we teach children, and it works perfectly fine.

As you are repeating yourself I will too.

I used to struggle before I started buying proper good quality laces. Now that I do, granny knots stay strong all the time and there is no need for anything else.

I am very happy with this by the way, you do not need to convince me otherwise. I am not trying to convince you to use them, only telling you that the opinion you are spouting on granny knots is incorrect.

Comment by jonathanlydall 2 days ago

It appears we’ll have to agree to disagree.

Comment by Reason077 5 days ago

I’m a big fan of the no-tie Quicklace system that Salomon use for my running and hiking shoes. Hard to go back to slow, fiddly traditional shoelaces once you’ve used quicklaces.

On the other hand, I’d probably be better at tying knots…

Comment by rdudek 5 days ago

Do you have a brand of those laces? The original ones on my Brooks runnign shoes are usually pretty good, but overtime they start getting more loose.

Comment by e12e 5 days ago

Sounds like:

https://www.ironlace.com/

Comment by Arch-TK 5 days ago

I mean, yes, the lace quality is important too. But strictly speaking, not tying a granny knot will improve your results regardless of choice of lace.

Comment by calmbonsai 5 days ago

"On" brand running shoes have great laces for knot-holding, but they're so thin it's awkward to manipulate them to actually tie the knot in the first place.

Comment by codesnik 5 days ago

Instead of relearning how to knot bunny ears, I make the first crossing the opposite way to granny knot, it's somehow easier for me.

Comment by windward 5 days ago

>Right-over-left, left-over-right,

>Makes a knot both tidy and tight.

I think I'd find this harder to remember than the principle.

Comment by jonathanlydall 5 days ago

Before your muscle memory is updated, all you need to remember is how to “quality check” the knot when you’re done. If the loops are perpendicular, it’s wrong, they should be aligned with the laces.

If it landed up perpendicular, start over (i.e. the part before you make the loops) with doing the opposite of what you did before e.g. right-over-left rather than left-over-right.

For me it was very easy to fix the pre-loop stage, trying to change the loop stage seemed way harder to me as I was already so practiced at it.

Comment by xp84 5 days ago

I do a similar quality check when tying a square knot (right over left, left over right but without the bows - probably the default knot for something you don't intend to ever untie and don't have a Scout's encyclopedic knowledge of more specialized knots) - since it doesn't have the bows, the quality check is that it should have a line of symmetry whereas if you repeat the same direction twice the finished knot is more of a spiral, having no line of symmetry.

Comment by thom 5 days ago

Not sure what my knot is called but it’s never come undone or gone wonky for me. At step five of the standard knot above, just pull the yellow loop into the empty space on the left and the blue loop to the right. Surely that saves you having to change hands?

Comment by 5 days ago

Comment by Version467 5 days ago

Oh no, is this why my laces hold tight all day on some days and untie themselves regularly on other days?

Guess I have some experimenting to do.

Comment by belthesar 5 days ago

Same here, haha. A very cool coworker a decade ago was the person finally able to convey to me how to change that up, and it was lifechanging.

Comment by RandomMarius 5 days ago

I learnt this distinction only in my 40s. The problem is muscle memory now. But all I do is after I do my first loop, I undo it and undo it again, looping it in the opposite direction. If I untie my shoes I'm less likely to undo that loop. So I can just retie with muscle memory.

I used to hate shoe laces becoming undone multiple times a day... now I tie them and they literally last YEARS.

Comment by lee_ars 5 days ago

Stumbling across Ian's site almost two decades ago was kinda-sorta life-changing, because I'd been tying the "granny knot" my whole life and had to resort to double-knotting to keep my damn shoes tied.

Ditched the granny knot for the Ian's Secure Knot (https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/secureknot.htm), and have been using that ever since for every pair of laced shoes I own.

Comment by sonar_un 5 days ago

I came across this site in the late 90's / early 2000's as well. I've been using the Ian Knot ever since, and even forgot how to tie my shoes "normally". I will teach it to anyone who will listen to me rant about knots.

Comment by WarmWash 5 days ago

This is my choice knot too, works really well

Comment by ErroneousBosh 5 days ago

If you just tie a reef knot, that'll work just as well.

Comment by alper 5 days ago

I use Ian's (Fast) Knot and that's good enough for me.

https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/ianknot.htm

Comment by gorjusborg 5 days ago

Same here.

I never taught my children anything but the '(Fast) Ian knot', so they know no other way. They are older now, but when they were younger, they were often the friends of 'first resort' when it came to getting their shoelaces tied when they came undone.

They've also taught many other children 'their way' of tying their shoes.

I should probably donate. It's a small thing, but definitely something that has made our lives (and those around us) better.

Comment by xlii 5 days ago

It's like world smallest (and funniest) superpower. While people are still tying their shoes I'm ready to go. It feels a bit like magic when you touch the laces and they're just made.

Comment by ericpauley 5 days ago

This is definitely the go-to knot over secure knot. Been using it every day for 13 years. Yes, it comes apart every so often (maybe a few times a year), but the tying time savings far outweighs those few instances.

Comment by Groxx 5 days ago

Plus you get to have rare "wait what, how the heck???" encounters if anyone around you pays attention randomly. It looks like magic compared to the usual methods people learn.

Comment by ericpauley 5 days ago

The best part of this is that you forget you're tying your shoes differently, so when the "how the heck" moment arrives you're also surprised!

Comment by tiltowait 5 days ago

> Yes, it comes apart every so often

Laces type matters a lot here. I've run countless miles with a fast knot without it ever coming undone.

The secure knot does feel like a cheat, though. It's like a double knot that you can untie like a single. Witchcraft!

Comment by wingerlang 5 days ago

I use this one as well. It took me a few moments to learn it, but it almost instantly became muscle memory.

I just tried to do the old fashioned knot, it might be the first time I've tied it in two decades.

Comment by agentgt 5 days ago

I tried to embrace this knot especially since I grew up sailing and know all kinds of ways to tie knots but I just can't seem to keep the tension as well as the traditional way. I can sometimes get ankle slip on my shoes so I like to have it tight at the top (not all shoes have lock lace holes).

Comment by flexagoon 5 days ago

This is a life changer. I've literally had friends ask me how I tie my shoes so fast a few times after learning this method.

Comment by clnhlzmn 5 days ago

I use this knot usually but it doesn't work for my pisgah range laces. They have their own recommended knot, which does work, but it's annoying to tie and asymmetric. I'll be trying this "secure" knot now.

Comment by al_borland 5 days ago

I switched over to this knot almost 20 years ago. It’s been great, and I think it’s secure enough on its own.

As a kid my laces would come untied all the time. The Ian knot rarely has an issue.

Comment by adzm 5 days ago

The same concept applies to anything with two loops as well. You can use it to quickly and easily tie together garbage bag loops, or grocery bag loops etc.

Comment by vedtopkar 5 days ago

I use this one to tie my scrub pants and also to quickly tie my sterile gown when in the operating room. So handy!

Comment by KomoD 5 days ago

I also use this one, it's great.

Comment by nunez 5 days ago

If you love this, you'll love learning about tying huarache running sandals:

- http://borntorun.org/shop/howtotie.html

- https://xeroshoes.eu/pages/tarahumara-sandals

- https://importantbutnotatall.wordpress.com/2011/08/22/huarac...

Infinitely many ways to tie these.

I've been rocking these almost daily for three years now. No other sandals like it. My feet feel extremely free.

They are also extremely easy to make; all you need is soling material, barge cement (if you're slapping two soles together), paracord and scissors.

Vibram soles can be had on Etsy or from cobblers. You'll probably want a molded EVA midsole if you want arch support; I haven't made sandals with any, so YMMV.

Leather's a great upper and can be found at leather shops (Tandy's here in Houston is great, and they deliver). You can also use EVA or the inside of a bottom sole as an upper for more friction.

I primarily use these for walking. (They're awesome for running; my knees, not so much.) The arches in my feet are as flat as tables. Getting the knots right enough to prevent the heel strap from stretching out was a massive challenge that I recently figured out. Once I did, these became unbeatable.

I've been debating making a video on the entire process. I'll do it if there's enough interest here. (I don't post on Reddit anymore.)

Comment by noman-land 5 days ago

I would be interested in seeing a video of you DIYing a pair of these from scratch.

Comment by delichon 5 days ago

When I was six or seven my older brother untied my shoelaces when I wasn't looking, and I tripped on them and almost fell down. This was apparently a traumatic event for me since it has affected my behavior ever since. I've double-knotted my shoelaces every time since then, usually remembering why. For about the last 57 years. When I was about 12 the same brother tried it again and failed due to the double knot. It was a moment of triumph.

But the double knot still sometimes comes untied somehow so I've never been entirely happy with it. Maybe if I take the effort to overcome my muscle memory and learn Ian's knot, it will quell the PTSD from being victimized at a young age and I can find inner peace.

Comment by xp84 5 days ago

I'm excited for you - this knot works incredibly well at staying tied, but what's even better is that compared to the standard "double knot" this is much, much easier for you to purposely untie - simply pull the string like the "traditional" knot.

Now, maybe that would have been a flaw with that pesky prankster brother of yours around, but I bet it'll be a positive now. Try it!

Comment by deepsun 5 days ago

[flagged]

Comment by 5 days ago

Comment by ssl-3 5 days ago

I worked with a guy once that liked to do stuff like untie peoples' shoes -- while they were standing on a ladder, working with their head inside of a ceiling.

One time, he even managed to re-tie the laces of my boot to a rung on that ladder. I almost fell down and ate shit due to this nonsense, and he found the whole thing to be particularly hilarious.

I don't think I was a victim here, nor do believe that I have PTSD, but I can definitely say that I learned that this dude was a fucking asshole.

Am I better for having learned that? Does my past tolerance for his dumb shit make me a better person today? Am I better off where I am today than I might be if I had responded by beating him with a Crescent wrench until he was unrecognizable?

Anyway, he didn't last at that job. The last I heard about him was several years later; he was in some kind of recovery house a couple of hours away after he pissed someone off to such an extent that they became motivated to try to saw his foot off with a broken coffee pot.

I thought that was pretty funny.

(To answer my own rhetorical questions: I'd probably be a better person today if I hadn't been forced to learn to be so detached in the first place.)

Comment by quickthrowman 4 days ago

> I worked with a guy once that liked to do stuff like untie peoples' shoes -- while they were standing on a ladder, working with their head inside of a ceiling.

> One time, he even managed to re-tie the laces of my boot to a rung on that ladder. I almost fell down and ate shit due to this nonsense, and he found the whole thing to be particularly hilarious.

I manage electricians who work on ladders (and lifts). If one of my electricians had his head above a ceiling grid and somebody tied his shoelaces to a ladder rung, I would expect them to untie their lace and proceed to beat the person that tied their laces to the ladder with whatever tool was closest to them until their arm got tired, and I would expect anyone else that witnessed it to join in on the beating. Not saying I would encourage it, but you do not put people’s life in danger on a ladder, ever. He was basically pointing a loaded gun at you.

I would be on their side, too. I would fire the lace prankster and give his victim a paid day off. It sounds like that dude got what was coming to him, so that’s good at least.

Comment by Hnrobert42 5 days ago

This really bothers you, huh?

Comment by xp84 5 days ago

I adopted this about a decade ago as what I tie shoes with, and I have done it for things like my kids' athletic shoes. And the advice about the accidental granny knot[1] is really life-changing. For anyone whose bow sits vertically after tying and whose shoes come untied spontaneously, you need to spend the 5 minutes to understand this. It's a free life upgrade.

On a related note, I have taken to replacing standard shoelaces on all my shoes as soon as I buy them with these elastic shoelaces with buckles[2]. You don't even have to unbuckle them, basically all your shoes become slip-ons. Probably not applicable if you're playing basketball or running track, but they work fine, look clean, and completely remove the need to ever tie laces. Highly recommend and you can buy them for like $1 each from sites like aliexpress or temu, I'm sure Amazon has them for $7 or so too.

[1] https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/grannyknot.htm

[2] https://www.aliexpress.us/w/wholesale-elastic-shoelaces.html...

Comment by dtj1123 5 days ago

I switched to Ian's original shoelace knot about ten years ago. It's saved me something like four hours of shoelace time since then. Bloody brilliant.

Comment by SockThief 5 days ago

I switched too and love it. It's arguably just a bit faster then the one I learned in childhood, but it's so much more reliable. I got couple of snickers I use daily and don't untie them at all, and the Ian's Knot [0] stays firmly knotted for months!

[0] https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/ianknot.htm

Comment by linsomniac 5 days ago

I learned it around 5 years ago and it just makes tying my shoes feel so effortless, I also feel like it holds on a little better than the previous knot I was using. It took me a while to get the mechanics down.

Comment by SwellJoe 5 days ago

I always use this site as a canonical example of The Good Internet. The kind of site that is rare today but used to be most of the internet, and we're all worse off for the change.

Lightweight handmade HTML and CSS. Very little JavaScript. The site is fast as hell, instant transition between pages, it'd make a React SPA blush.

The URLs don't change. The navigation is familiar and unchanging. Back button works as expected. Bookmarks into the site don't break.

It costs him almost nothing to run, so he isn't compelled to fill the pages with bullshit ads that disrupt or interrupt. It's got a handful of ad banners at the top and bottom, as ads used to be. I'd prefer it had no Google ads, since surveillance is part of the deal one makes with Google, but it's not the worst offense.

Edit: Also, because it uses core/standard web technologies exclusively, he has never been required to change it to keep it working or update a bunch of stuff for security reasons. Maintenance cost is effectively zero...whenever he wants to work on the the site, he can. He's never been compelled to drop everything to perform npm acrobatics to get a security update rolled out.

Comment by xp84 5 days ago

Wow, he even made navigation that puts the links on little shoelace ends. Indeed, this is the kind of thing that was widespread, and which the soulless modern net never has.

Comment by SwellJoe 5 days ago

A tremendous amount of care went into the site, and it shows.

Comment by angiolillo 5 days ago

> It costs him almost nothing to run

> Maintenance cost is effectively zero...

His estimates[1] of ongoing costs seem different:

> I spend probably 60 hours a week continuously improving this website, answering visitors' questions, solving their shoelace problems – even granting permission for my material to be re-used by other educators.

> All of this effort earns me less than 1/5 of the Australian National Minimum Wage.

> I'm thinking of calling this my “Million Dollar Website” – not because it's worth a million dollars but because it has cost me a million dollars compared to what I could have earned at a regular job (based on an average Australian annual wage of $50,000 × 25+ years).

Granted it seems like you're commenting just on the cost of maintaining the site's HTML/CSS, and I agree that making the website simpler reduces those costs. But even with more complex websites the development costs are often less than the cost of developing good content, attracting people to your site, paying for hosting, etc.

[1] https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/support.htm

Comment by LeifCarrotson 5 days ago

Content creating is not maintenance. And hosting of a static site is dirt cheap, caching works flawlessly.

It could've been a two-million-dollar website if he'd tried to roll his own CMS and Javascript framework, for zero benefit over the one-million-dollar website he actually built.

Comment by angiolillo 5 days ago

> Content creating is not maintenance.

Technical maintenance isn't the only kind of website maintenance. Unless you're ready to put a site into hibernation, maintaining the content is an ongoing cost. For example, Ian adds testimonial photos and quotes that people submit via email not to mention corrections and improvements based on feedback.

> It could've been a two-million-dollar website if he'd tried to roll his own CMS and Javascript framework

Sure, and it could have been a three-million-dollar website if he wrote a web server from scratch in a language he invented to host the bespoke CMS and JavaScript framework he created.

But more reasonable alternatives to a personal HTML/CSS site like this would be either an off-the-shelf CMS or a third-party website builder. Those seem like they'd be more expensive in some ways and cheaper in others.

Comment by SwellJoe 5 days ago

OK, that feels like a choice.

Comment by Wistar 5 days ago

The site owner, Ian, says he is seeking an alternative to google ads. Seems the site may be struggling financially.

https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/support.htm

Comment by SwellJoe 5 days ago

That's the worst thing about Google Ads. Google keeps an absurd amount of the money, and they punish your users. And, of course, ads in general became so abusive and intrusive that everyone uses an ad blocker, making ads less effective as a revenue source.

But, I don't see how a static HTML site could be a struggle to keep running. It costs almost nothing to host something like that, even with a lot of traffic. I guess if one wanted to make a living off of it, it'd be a struggle.

Comment by sunshowers 5 days ago

Thank you for the link! Just donated. That site changed my life in a small but persistent way — my shoelaces haven't come undone in more than a decade now.

Comment by nopurpose 5 days ago

Which knot do you use?

Comment by sunshowers 5 days ago

The secure/double slip knot that's linked in the story. I practiced it a few times (making sure the knots are in opposite directions took a bit of retraining muscle memory) and can tie it by heart now.

Comment by 5 days ago

Comment by kgwxd 5 days ago

> I'd prefer it had no Google ads

The good thing about those ads is, it's your choice if they're allowed to run on your machines or not. Assuming your "user agent" isn't really an "ad industry agent".

Comment by SwellJoe 5 days ago

Yes, Ian doesn't do any bullshit with ad block detection or blocking. The site works fine with ads blocked. I'm reminded that there should be a tiered ad block tool. I would like to be able to not block traditional ad banners (an img tag and a link, maybe with an affiliate ID), like the ones on the sidebar of Ian's site, while still blocking the surveillance ads like Google serves. I know traditional ad banners don't perform all that well, but, as a user, they don't bother me at all...and, I'm far more likely to click them if they're really relevant to the site I'm looking at.

Honestly, the old way of doing ads was also The Good Internet. No surveillance, the people placing the ads needed to actually think about where to spend their money, the sites had to decide personally whether the ad fit their audience and ethics. The ad surveillance networks launder all the ethical questions into a wash of hateful attention stealing and tracking user behavior.

Comment by Semaphor 5 days ago

> I know traditional ad banners don't perform all that well

I’m not sure that’s always true. We have our own homegrown adserver that’s almost 100% context based (a few ads for stores do rudimentary IP geo-targeting, all purely first-party though), and it does well with both banners and text based ads. It’s in the digital photography niche. I’d assume generally places that are strongly oriented towards a niche can do a lot with context based advertisment. CTR is much better than for Google ads (that we also run).

Comment by SwellJoe 5 days ago

Yeah, I think publishers/advertisers are actually leaving money on the table by using Google ads instead of bespoke targeted ads from direct sponsors. It's a lot harder to manage ads without Google doing all the work, but they're better for readers and advertisers if there's a human with good taste and judgement in the loop.

Comment by GuB-42 5 days ago

> The kind of site that is rare today but used to be most of the internet, and we're all worse off for the change.

To me, it is not that these sites are rarer today than they once were. In fact, I think they are more of these today. It is just that the internet today is way bigger than it once was, and a lot of crap came with it. In fact, the web page dates back from 2000, and believe it or not, what is now known as enshittification was well on its way, though it was more Flash than Javascript. It was the peak of the dotcom bubble after all. The time such websites were "most of the internet" was more of a 1990s thing.

A site like Ian's Shoelace Site is not representative of its time any more than it is now, in that it was, and still is unusually good.

> Also, because it uses core/standard web technologies exclusively, he has never been required to change it to keep it working or update a bunch of stuff for security reasons.

On the client side, sure. On the server side, there is still maintenance to be done, especially with https where you have to manage certificates and their expiration, even though certbot make it simpler. But arguably, that's his host job and he just has to upload a bunch of html file, so you are right on that point. He still kept his page to modern standards, even though he wasn't required to (HTML 1.0 still works!).

Comment by emsixteen 5 days ago

> A site like Ian's Shoelace Site is not representative of its time any more than it is now

It very clearly is, though.

Comment by goody71 5 days ago

another one I loved...I guess still love too https://sheldonbrown.com/fixed-conversion.html

Comment by SwellJoe 5 days ago

Ah, yeah, Sheldon Brown was great. I was sad when he passed (nearly two decades ago, now). I'm glad to see someone cares enough to keep his site running all these years later. It hasn't ever stopped being useful information.

Comment by torben-friis 5 days ago

You missed the most important part: the site provides something for free.

There's no "if you want to keep learning check my book/course". It's not a funnel entrance, it's not adversarial to you as a reader.

I really really miss being able to enjoy content keeping my guard down, not wondering what is a scam, astroturfing, political propaganda...

Comment by nosrepa 5 days ago

I would totally buy his book, even if it was only an offline copy of his site.

Comment by al_borland 5 days ago

You’re in luck, he has a book.

https://www.amazon.com/Laces-100s-Ways-Pimp-Kicks/dp/1402752...

Comment by nunez 5 days ago

Yes, agreed. Website made out of love instead of desire for profit. Insanely useful information that's hard to find elsewhere. Timeless.

Comment by dimastopel 5 days ago

I use the Ian Knot [0] (also called the World's Fastest Shoelace Knot) with my Vivobarefoot. Moved to it from Bunny Ears method at the age of 45. Never thought I'll switch the way I tie my shoelaces at such and age.

[0] https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/ianknot.htm

Comment by hx833001 5 days ago

This is the best knot. Looks amazing aesthetically and simply does not come undone. Unless you want it to, in which case a quick pull on one end unties it instantly.

Comment by rndz 5 days ago

More than 10 years ago, somebody shared this clip with me: https://youtu.be/zAFcV7zuUDA?is=QDFb5Wxd_tJ-pJ61

Been tying my shoelaces like this ever since.

Comment by burnt-resistor 5 days ago

Delete the ?is=... part because it's tracking information that uniquely identifies you.

Comment by NelsonMinar 5 days ago

This is the classic Terry Moore 3 minute video. It boils down to "tie a square knot". It changed my life too!

I love this video because it's both the perfect TED video and the perfect parody of a TED video.

Comment by oldandboring 5 days ago

Learned the Ian knot back in my early 20s (25 years ago now). Pound for pound this is easily in my top 10 highest value things I've ever done/learned. My shoes do NOT come untied anymore, period, ever.

Funny thing is, if you don't know how to tie it, you probably just notice how it looks when it's done (almost exactly like the granny bowtie) so you (understandably) assume it's just a different method to arrive at the same result, like how bunny-ears and rabbit-goes-around-the-tree do. Of course it's not the same result at all.

Comment by rahimnathwani 5 days ago

From the site "The finished Ian Knot is identical to either the Standard Shoelace Knot or the Two Loop Shoelace Knot."

Comment by oldandboring 1 day ago

Thanks, I don't know how I would have made it through the day without somebody on HN going "ackshually...."

Comment by skogstokig 5 days ago

This is very similar to the Berluti shoelace knot. A plus is that the knot lies horizontal and is symmetrical, while still being able to untie like a regular shoelace knot.

https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/berluti-knot.htm https://youtu.be/ds-EtA4Uw6s?si=cWFXylbmamqCmtw6

Comment by stronglikedan 5 days ago

That's a lot of work. Just reverse the first foldover you make from the direction you were taught as a kid, but do everything else the same (i.e., square knot). If the bow ends up perfectly horizontal to your foot, then you did it right, and it likely won't come undone.

Ian's has it's place in like camping and hiking and such, but for everyday use, it wastes precious seconds and you have to have the dexterity of a surgeon to pull it off efficiently.

Comment by lillesvin 5 days ago

> [...] for everyday use, it wastes precious seconds [...]

You should probably try the Ian Knot then: https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/ianknot.htm (good video demo here: https://youtu.be/6cBtqhq5P28

Took me about 5 minutes to learn properly some 15 years ago, and according to this chart: https://xkcd.com/1205/ that's definitely worth it.

Comment by hangonhn 5 days ago

I've used this knot for almost 2 decades now since learning about it from this exact website. It looks really nice, easy to take apart on purpose, and has never come undone. I run 4 to 5 times a week and used to run marathons. That's literally 10k+ miles over that timespan and it has never come apart unintentionally.

It's also just so simple to learn.

Comment by xp84 5 days ago

I can still remember as a teenager having to bend down and re-tie my shoes multiple times a day, and then in my early 20s I received Ian's hardbound book[1] as a gift, learned this knot, and just like that, I simply never had to do that again. What a gift of time!

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Laces-100s-Ways-Pimp-Kicks/dp/1402752... - it even comes laced with a set of special laces on the front to learn with, that uses the 2 colors his diagrams use.

Comment by sonar_un 5 days ago

Yep, I am a runner too, ran 6 marathons with this knot and run 20 miles a week. It just never comes undone.

Comment by NyxWulf 5 days ago

This is an interesting knot, the thing with knots though, you have to spend enough time with them to get familiar with tying them blindfolded from memory. My experience is most people don't care enough to do it.

So I have a simple alternative to tying my shoes that you can teach and learn easily. Knots are all about the number of turns or wraps, so when tying your shoes instead of crossing the laces over once, do it twice. When you wrap around the loop, do that twice too. You may have to try it to understand, but it is easy and readily understandable to anyone who can already tie their shoes. The best part is the way you tighten it down and untie are are exactly the same as you have always done. It almost never comes untied, but still releases easily.

Comment by alessivs 5 days ago

I've been using this shoelace knot on all kinds of laced shoes–even those featuring bad quality, tubular, inflexible, shoreline convenience shop-like laces since 2010-ish; in fact, I've found it to be the only efficient knot that works on those kinds of laces and guarantee several hours of security. Despite not being optimized to train procedural memory, I made sure to enter the lacing procedure in an Anki-like application (called SuperMemo before its decline) so I could recall how to do it over the years to this day. Other people have benefited from my epiphany as I've taught them this knot. I consider this knot a fundamental life skill, comparable to learning to ride a bike or change a bulb.

Comment by chardan965 5 days ago

Happy to chime in and say that years ago now I learned both Ian's Fast Knot and Ian's Secure Knot, and when I use shoes that I have laces, I enjoy both!

Here's my story about the secure knot: I used to do a lot of road cycling, and I got back from my first 100mi/day ride pretty tired and went to untie my shoes. I couldn't, because I'd used the granny knot I learned when I was a kid-- so I wound up cutting them off. I'd learned Ian's Fast Knot before then, and decided to see about the Secure Knot. Well, happy to say, over the next 6+ century rides, Ian's Secure Knot was a dream-- it stayed put the entire day and always came undone for me-- a TERRIFIC knot!

Comment by vrganj 5 days ago

Great knot and amazing site. It has a distinct "old internet" feel to it, and I mean that as nothing but a compliment. I miss those days, pre platforms capturing everything and making us angry at each other for their engagement metrics.

Comment by zenoprax 5 days ago

Alternative view: it works best for flatter laces. I have a pair of running shoes with thicker round laces that don't stay tied unless I use the traditional method.

I'm curious about the physics involved to cause such an obvious and singular failure.

Comment by abustamam 5 days ago

I tie my shoe laces with Ian knot. I know it by muscle memory.

But when I try to tie something that isn't facing me (like my daughter's hat) then suddenly I completely forget how to tie any knot except good ol square knot.

Comment by jjice 5 days ago

Learned this about five years ago on HN and it's the only way I've tied my shoes since. It's so fast and perfect every time. It's worth the ten minutes in your living room learning to tie your shoes again like a child!

Comment by jaggederest 5 days ago

If you like that, you'll really like https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/doublehelixlacing.htm

Basically, it reduces the friction so you can yank once to get your laces perfectly tight, or pull upwards to loosen them, instead of having to adjust each section independently. Combined with the double lock knot, it's ideal for high boots or above the knee boots with ~14-20 eyelets like the tall doc martens.

Comment by kobieps 5 days ago

I learnt about this knot 16 years ago from a comment on cpbotha's blog :

https://cpbotha.net/2010/04/07/weekly-head-voices-20-a-lamar...

It has changed my life. I was also part of mountain rescue at the time, and nobody in the team knew about it. Now everyone swears by it.

So if you're part of any kind of first responder team - please tell your colleagues about this knot!

Comment by burnt-resistor 5 days ago

"Double Slip Knot" (ABOK 1219 p. 221) is the canonical name with prior art. Calling it [your name] knot is pompous "discovery" of lands already occupied revisionist history. The main problem with it is that the free ends and loops cannot be balanced easily like a standard Bow Knot (ABOK 1214 p. 220). A Bow Knot may also be fixed by adding an opposing Half Knot ("The Shoeclerk's Knot" (ABOK 1215)) while losing the slip feature that the Double Slip Knot retains.

Comment by rahimnathwani 5 days ago

From the site:

  Years later I found out that my new knot was not new and that I had simply re-invented an existing knot, which appears elsewhere under two different names:

  “Double Slip Knot” (#1219) in “The Ashley Book of Knots” by Clifford Ashley;
  “Seaman's Shoelace Knot” (or “Seemännische Schuhbandschleife”), which appears in the German book “Knoten, Spleißen, Takeln” by Erich Sondheim.

Comment by Syzygies 5 days ago

There's the finished knot, and there's his way of tying it, which is easy to grasp.

That strikes a chord for me. In grade school my teachers could not distinguish between these perspectives, for the standard shoelace knot. I found their method stupid, and they thought my method was wrong. This was but one of many lessons that helped me to learn to think for myself.

Comment by xp84 5 days ago

I'm pretty sure knot techniques can't be copyrighted, so nobody owns it or has the exclusive right to name it. Someone can call it the Ham Sandwich knot if they want. Who cares?

Besides, I'm pretty sure Ian has done a lot more to spread the knowledge of this particular knot than anyone else in history.

Comment by endgame 5 days ago

Ashley is the canonical list of knots, so it's good for people who haven't heard of ABOK to hear about it since we're talking knots today.

Probably time to drop another coin in Ian's tip jar too.

Comment by nickzelei 5 days ago

I did a double take seeing this on the front page. I came across this website only yesterday after searching how to properly lace a heel-lock. I bought a new pair of shoes and my right shoe wants to slip out of the heel ever so slightly.

As a result, I came across this absolute gem of a website! Glad to see it here as it's a wealth of knowledge. Who knew there were so many ways to tie and lace up shoes. There's even methods to design your own! Amazing.

Comment by lowercased 5 days ago

I just switched to slip-ons the moment I could buy my own shoes.

Comment by onraglanroad 5 days ago

That makes sense for people who can't see their feet without a mirror.

Comment by globular-toast 5 days ago

Fine for slippers or driving shoes but no good for active wear.

Comment by lowercased 5 days ago

I got elastic (?) self-holding laces for my running shoes, which effectively make them a slip-on as well.

Comment by cactacea 5 days ago

Highly recommend the book Fixing Your Feet if you found this useful, it is a gold mine of helpful info. I used to get really awful blisters even on short hikes but after applying some of the lacing techniques from this book I don't get blisters at all.

https://www.fixingyourfeet.com/fixing-your-feet/

Comment by nunez 5 days ago

This is a doubled-up version of Ian's Knot: https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/ianknot.htm

I've been using this knot for years; I want to say since college (at least 10 years now). It's stupid fast to do once you learn it and it doesn't slip off ever.

Highly HIGHLY recommend learning it.

Comment by mmanfrin 5 days ago

Came here to post this one. I intentionally tried to train myself to do this about 10 years ago and the muscle memory came a lot quicker than I expected. It's a very secure knot and the sides hang to the side, not wonky like the ones most of us learned.

Comment by nunez 5 days ago

It took me a few months to nail it; jealous you got it more quickly than I did!

This was kind of like learning Vim. I struggled with how to computer for two weeks and lost the desire to learn literally anything else after mastering it. (I still prefer Vim with my plugins over VSCode!)

Comment by apolo64 4 days ago

I've spent my life doing a weird fast knot I learned from somebody in middle school and just found out it was invented by this man. Thank you Ian !

https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/ianknot.htm

Comment by txhwind 5 days ago

This is the first shoelace knot my parents taught me. We call it "butterfly knot". It's always my default choice with muscle memory, unless the shoelace is not long enough to create the "bufferfly wings". It's secured enough for daily use, and easy to release. Also the best choice for apron knot.

Comment by liendolucas 5 days ago

It never occurred to me that I could tie shoes with a different knot. This is excellent. It takes a bit of practice to undo a lifetime habit of tying my shoes with a weak knot. Well worth it!

For some reason I have a pair of sneakers that they will always untie way many more times than any other shoes that I ever had, no matter how hard you make the regular knot. No more!

Comment by waltbosz 5 days ago

I want to shoot a video and get expert feedback on the knot I invented for tying my shoes. It's fast to tie, is easy to untie, and very secure. It has never come untied on its own in all my years of using it.

It's tad unconventional looking for a shoe lace knot, but never has anyone every commented on it.

Looking at knots again, I guess it's just a slip knot.

Comment by DanTheManPR 5 days ago

It's just a good knot. The only downside is that it is very slightly more complex than a regular shoelace knot (you pass-through both loops instead of just one). But otherwise, it's only upsides: completely secure, unties exactly as easily and quickly as a regular shoelace knot, and it even lays more horizontally than a regular shoelace knot.

Comment by lwansbrough 5 days ago

I learned his fast knot about a decade ago and never looked back. It's probably saved me dozens of seconds over that time.

Comment by cpfohl 5 days ago

Switched to this knot a few years back for any day when we're walking/hiking a lot. I also tie my children's shoes this way if they're having a struggling day.

If anyone's playing with this you may find that after you tie the loops together they're sitting funny; you basically have to swap the sides the loops sit on!

Comment by rahimnathwani 5 days ago

There's a 'tying neatly' section on the technical info page:

https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/secureknottech.htm#observat...

Comment by sethammons 5 days ago

https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/betterbowknot.htm

This is my go-to knot. Boots and shoes. They never come undone and a single tug undoes the knot. Said bye bye to the double knot years ago.

Comment by 5 days ago

Comment by ChrisArchitect 5 days ago

Some previous discussion:

Secure knot 2024 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42155457

General Shoelace Site

4 Months ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46848231

Comment by frankmatranga 5 days ago

I have truly never had a shoe come untied after switching to this knot years ago. My friends think I’m crazy when I rave about shoelaces to them and try to get them to see the light. Jokes on them! They’ll be left behind re-tying their shoes till the last day their feet walk the earth.

Comment by twodave 5 days ago

Runner here. I found some time ago that starting out the classic shoelace tie right-hand dominant and finishing it left-hand dominant results in a very stable knot. Lacing them high enough to keep the ends short helps too. It has been thousands of miles since my last loose shoelace.

Comment by tyleo 5 days ago

I learned the fast shoelace knot from this site years ago. Highly recommend it: https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/ianknot.htm

It’s both functional and a great party trick.

Comment by 0xbadcafebee 5 days ago

And if you're really into nerdy efficiency, you get velcro shoes.

Comment by mc3301 5 days ago

slipons, loafers, crocs, sandals for 90% of my life.

BOA for bikes.

Occasionally I have "traditional" lace-up shoes, and replace the laces with those elastic pull-string shoes.

Was gonna teach my kid how to tie shoes only to realize, they also have no shoes with laces.

I just noted that I probably haven't tied laces in over a decade.

Comment by brikym 5 days ago

I love the cute little page navigation buttons. I learned this knot ten years ago and I love it. Pro tip is to make sure the loops are longer than the ends otherwise the ends have more tension and will loosen the knot.

Comment by proee 5 days ago

My problem with this knot, is going from step 2 to 3, I get a bit of slippage from the orginal starter knot (step 1). For my running shoes, getting the tightness just right is critical, so not sure how to dial this in?

Comment by netfortius 5 days ago

To me untying laces, so I can take my shoes off ASAP, its far more important than the reliability of the knot. I just need to pull an end, and free my feet, without things tangled by mistake.

Comment by raphaelrk 5 days ago

According to my App Store history, on May 30, 2010, I downloaded the app "Ian's Laces — How to tie and lace shoes (Lite)". Since then, I've very rarely had to tie my shoes :)

Comment by johsole 5 days ago

Like many I also discovered this about 10 years ago and love.

One other thing I've been doing lately is also to use bar lacing instead of cross lacing. A small change that makes shoes much more comfortable.

Comment by teddyh 5 days ago

Animated: <https://www.animatedknots.com/shoelace-bow-knot-fieggen-meth...>

Comment by benji-york 5 days ago

Although that's a different knot (I use the one originally referenced), I taught my kids the knot in the animation and it's worked out well.

Added benefit: adults are impressed when they see my kids tie their laces.

Comment by gargalatas 5 days ago

that's different.

Comment by teddyh 5 days ago

Oops, you’re right.

Comment by thefz 5 days ago

Ian's works wonders for running shoes, but alas tying it requires a lot of free string, and sometimes whati is left after looping for heel lock is not enough.

Comment by jmbwell 5 days ago

One of my favorite artifacts of the pre-platform era of the web. Valuable stuff presented clearly … all clearly handmade with care. Not a monetized journey conversion experience in sight

Comment by xdennis 5 days ago

This is similar to how I ties my shoes, without the double twist though.

Even as a kid, I thought of it as a problem decomposition:

1) tie a knot

2) fold ends in half

3) treat the folded strings as a single string and go to step 1 and exit

Comment by amelius 5 days ago

But when will we have Marty's self-tying shoes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liI1E_ZZV5w

Comment by onraglanroad 5 days ago

If Back To The Future were remade today, Marty would be going back to the good old days of 1996.

Comment by NetMageSCW 5 days ago

Ten years ago:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike_Mag

Comment by amelius 5 days ago

Looks like it could have been an Apple product also. Same design language.

Comment by snitty 5 days ago

I've been using this knot for a decade or so, and my shoes have come untied twice. Both times I stepped on a loose end and pulled it open. It's incredible

Comment by orphea 5 days ago

You can also tie two knots but in the opposite directions:

https://youtu.be/8DBhTXM_Br4?t=1711 (Veritasium)

Comment by burnt-resistor 5 days ago

Veritasium is owned by private equity.

Comment by orphea 5 days ago

It is, but luckily, private equities don't decide whether knots untie or not, so the video may still be helpful.

Comment by gcanyon 5 days ago

Did the Klutz book of Knots first popularize this knot? The method they gave is different, but I think it's the same. It's been forty-some years...

Comment by cubefox 5 days ago

I'm still hoping we could collectively agree that it's childish to view technologically superior Velcro as childish, and then replace shoelaces with Velcro.

Comment by arcticgeek 5 days ago

I find taking the rabbit around the tree twice also works well.

Comment by brandonpelfrey 5 days ago

Friend shared this site with me like 10+ years ago, I've been using this knot ever since. Kind of amazing it's so generally unknown given how good it is.

Comment by zeeveener 5 days ago

I think I've evolved beyond knots and just accepted that elastic laces are my future for all but my proper use-for-high-intensity running shoes.

Comment by fdr 5 days ago

I've been tying this for years. Good knot. I only have failures if I hit a snag (and no easy-release knot is going to be able to get around that)

Comment by nticompass 5 days ago

I learned about this site from the TV show "Going Deep with David Rees" (episode 2)! I recommend that show if you haven't seen it.

Comment by kernel_sanders 5 days ago

My kids learned to tie their shoes this way from this site and never knew differently. They're 20 and 17 now.

Comment by 5 days ago

Comment by layman51 5 days ago

I have some athletic shoes that come undone so easily and I think this knot will help me out a lot.

Comment by yuppiepuppie 5 days ago

Best investment in the last 5 years for me - elastic shoelaces. Never have to tie my shoes again

Comment by vermilingua 5 days ago

Bet they pair well with cargo shorts

Comment by yuppiepuppie 5 days ago

Better! swimsuit :)

Comment by jmole 5 days ago

depending on your sole preferences, I bet you would like the Xero Prio Coast shoe. I just got a pair – elastic laces, slip-on ergonomics, barefoot sole, large toebox. They are fantastic.

Comment by al_borland 5 days ago

You may be interested in Birchbury as well. They also have a wide toe box and elastic laces, while having some more classic and clean looks. I especially like the dress shoes. I’m not sure what magic they used to still make them look normal, while feeling like wearing a wide toebox slipper.

Though they don’t treat them with any water proofing to help with breathability, which I didn’t find out until they showed up. This always makes me paranoid to wear them out in the rain. Keep that in mind (or add your own treatment)

Comment by t1234s 5 days ago

I always refer to this site when I get a new pair of Adidas to get them laced up cool.

Comment by calini 5 days ago

Eyy, I stumbled upon this website when I was 10, glad to see it’s still up!

Comment by LeoPanthera 5 days ago

I started buying laceless shoes about a decade ago and I’m never going back.

Comment by fl0ki 5 days ago

Been using this knot exclusively since 2013, it's stood the test of time.

Comment by adm4 5 days ago

yep... I remember the day I saw a short ted talk explaining the correct knot. I had been doing it wrong for decades. thanks for even more knots to try.

Comment by cryber 5 days ago

I have been doing this for...12 years to great success

Comment by emsign 5 days ago

Ian Fieggen's fast knot changed my life.

Comment by carterschonwald 5 days ago

the moment this clicked after reading it a few years ago its been my daily driver. that resource is a treasure

Comment by robot_jesus 5 days ago

Agreed 100%. But for me it was many, many years ago. But this is my daily shoelace knot and it works amazingly well.

Comment by mistyvales 5 days ago

Wasn't this just posted?

Comment by kimjune01 5 days ago

oh this again, i found this on stumbleupon circa 2007

Comment by nikolay 5 days ago

That's how I've been doing it since I was a kid (in the '80s) without anyone telling me about it. It's interesting how people put their names on some common-sense stuff! Disgusting!

Comment by dang 5 days ago

Related. Others?

Ian's Shoelace Site - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48288156 - May 2026 (2 comments)

Ian's Shoelace Site - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46848231 - Feb 2026 (72 comments)

Ian's Secure Shoelace Knot - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42155457 - Nov 2024 (21 comments)

Ian's Shoelace Site - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37646964 - Sept 2023 (64 comments)

An Interview with Ian Fieggen, Shoelace Expert - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35604020 - April 2023 (2 comments)

Ian's Shoelace Site - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35377589 - March 2023 (4 comments)

Ian Knot (2003) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27728002 - July 2021 (66 comments)

The “Granny Knot” - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26867300 - April 2021 (255 comments)

C.I.A. Lacing (2014) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24091391 - Aug 2020 (89 comments)

Ian's Shoelace Site - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21153182 - Oct 2019 (2 comments)

Ian Knot - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16454796 - Feb 2018 (47 comments)

Ask HN: How many times will the shoelace story be submitted? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14105633 - April 2017 (4 comments)

Ian's Shoelace Site - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13399095 - Jan 2017 (116 comments)

Shoelace knots - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10200917 - Sept 2015 (43 comments)

Shoe Lacing Methods - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9966073 - July 2015 (5 comments)

The "Granny Knot" - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7107814 - Jan 2014 (1 comment)

Why shoelaces come undone - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3671112 - March 2012 (1 comment)

Shoelace Knots - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1914731 - Nov 2010 (1 comment)

Fast. Easy. Clean. Shoelace Knot. - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1063086 - Jan 2010 (41 comments)

How to tie world's fastest shoelace knot - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=111756 - Feb 2008 (11 comments)

Comment by aaron695 5 days ago

There's a lot from Ians site alone - https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=fieggen.com

The fact it's a regular and popular for 18 years is the best throwaway.

Personally the greatest thing I ever bought is boots with a zipper. They also have shoelaces for ~legal/OH&S reasons, but you only have to do them once.

Comment by brador 5 days ago

Double cross tuck is still the champ. Nothing comes close to its simplicity and hardiness. Zero fidliness unlike this nonsense.