UK media fails to disclose defence sector links in nearly 60% of cases
Posted by XzetaU8 5 days ago
Comments
Comment by JdeBP 5 days ago
The Guardian is only mentioned in context of exposing these conflicts of interests; and whilst I am surprised to find LBC and Nation Cymru as not being transparent about their experts and commentariat, I don't see The National mentioned at all, nor The Herald, The Scotsman, the Metro, the Financial Times, and The i.
This may tell us that these experts only appear in the 'usual suspect' news media. Or it may tell us that this report didn't look at a wide range of U.K. news media. The latter seems unlikely given the inclusion of some niche publications (I've never even heard of London Loves Business until today.) and things like Nation Cymru, so I am more inclined to suppose the former.
Comment by k1m 5 days ago
You mention the Guardian. I took one of the names listed in the report, Richard Barrons, and quickly found an article in the Guardian where he's quoted but his ties to the arms industry are not disclosed: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/20/britain-def...
Comment by JdeBP 5 days ago
That said, I wouldn't be surprised if AOAV had a blind spot with respect to The Guardian. However, that doesn't show one; and they did do lists of news media for several of the 19 (e.g. Richards) indicating that they aren't just picking 1 example publication for each person. Which is why I'm still inclined towards this telling us that there is a certain subset of U.K. publications in which this occurs.
If they hadn't mentioned Nation Cymru I'd be inclined towards this telling us that the report is highly London-centric and not reflective of 'U.K. media'. But they did.
Comment by k1m 5 days ago
And this is far from an isolated case, if you think the Guardian is an exception. We're all technical here, easy to use Google search and look up the names in the report and see how often the Guardian and the other "better" papers disclose the arms industry links. (Oh and the political party he's affiliated to isn't what's under discussion here.)
Comment by JdeBP 5 days ago
Rather, you've showed an article where the primary complaint of the headlined report, that the potential biases of a commentator or a source are not made apparent, does not apply because the bias of the person quoted, that xe is politically connected to the government whose actions are being scrutinized in the piece, is very much given as context.
Comment by eduction 5 days ago
Comment by k1m 5 days ago
I'll give you more examples, but here's a challenge for you: Can you find examples of the named people in the Guardian where their arms industry links are clearly disclosed?
Nick Houghton
From the report:
> In an article in the Daily Mail dated 2 April 2024, Baron Houghton backed the Mail’s campaign to increase defence spending. There was no mention made of his various vested interests.
The Guardian, also with no mention of his vested interests[1]:
- "Ukraine is being asked to fight a proxy war against Russia on behalf of Nato without being given the means to win it, Nick Houghton, a former head of the armed forces, told the Lords today."
- "Houghton also called for higher spending on defence."
Nick Carter
From the report:
> "Sir Nick has been quoted across various publications re-increasing defence spending, with only reference to his military status.”
The Guardian[2]:
- "The promises to bolster the defence of the Arctic came as British former head of the armed forces General Sir Nick Carter called for greater European cooperation to deter Russia and support Ukraine."
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2025/oct/31/uk-pol...
[2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/feb/11/ukraine-war-br...
Comment by pjc50 5 days ago
Indeed. These are pay-to-play propaganda and should not be accorded the dignity of "newspaper". Peter Oborne's resignation from the Telegraph is still worth reading: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31510152
Comment by gib444 5 days ago
And The Telegraph is about to become German
GB News is quite likely Russian ultimately lol
Comment by squidbeak 5 days ago
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/26/timid-incompet...
Comment by SanjayMehta 5 days ago
Comment by tialaramex 5 days ago
As with the drug trade lawyers are happy to take £££ of your obviously stolen Russian cash to help you argue that you and that money are legitimate. And if you lose? Oops, the payment to the lawyers is magically exempt so they keep that. The incentives to work for people who you know are crooks are very strong, just need to get cash up front because when anything goes wrong they're suddenly penniless and have never met you.
That's the stupidest thing about Trump's lawyers. These guys must have represented crooks before, so he's not different on that score, but why did so many of them not demand cash up front?
Comment by eduction 5 days ago
Comment by jrrv 5 days ago
Comment by kitd 5 days ago
Comment by JdeBP 5 days ago
If (say) they threw out 967 to leave those 33, then one possible explanation that that leaves the door open for is that journalists are so used to there being no conflict of interest, it being the case the majority of the time, that they don't check in the minority of cases where there is.
I suspect that they didn't throw out anywhere near as many as that, though. But, still, I would have liked to have been told the figure.
Comment by Pxtl 5 days ago
Why? From afar my vague impression of LBC is that it's talk radio opinion slop, even if it puts in some effort to avoid the cartoonishly-far-right conservatism endemic to that genre.
Comment by daveshistory 5 days ago
Comment by echelon_musk 5 days ago
> 3 points by indigodaddy on June 2, 2023 | past | 1 comment
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36170406
https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2019-09-11-how-the-u...
Comment by cryo32 5 days ago
There isn't a single news source that you can trust as such. You have to compile a lot of them, remove the unverified information and see what is left. Usually not a lot.
Comment by zipy124 5 days ago
"Viner also oversaw the breakup of The Guardian’s celebrated investigative team, whose muck-racking journalists were told to apply for other jobs outside of investigations."
This tells you something about why you might feel that way.
Comment by cryo32 5 days ago
Comment by piltdownman 5 days ago
That said, no British media is exempt from adherence to D Notices and tenets of their legal system like the concept of a super-injuction, whereby a court order prevents the reporting of the fact that the injunction exists at all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super-injunctions_in_English_l...
That the term was coined by a Guardian journalist covering the 2006 Ivory Coast toxic waste dump scandal should be context enough as to their motives and constraints.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RJW_v_Guardian_News_and_Media_...
Comment by cryo32 5 days ago
The reformed DSMA notice system which replaced the D notice system in 2015 is somewhat more specific on what should not be reported. I think that's fit for purpose now. And it's still not legally binding. It's an agreement. Thus it does not break press freedom should the notice be found unethical or covering something up.
Comment by daveshistory 5 days ago
Comment by cryo32 5 days ago
Comment by JdeBP 5 days ago
Comment by daveshistory 5 days ago
Comment by iso1631 5 days ago
The BBC used to deride Sky for being "never wrong for long", but the race to "break the news" changed that. If the news is about something that happened today it's barely worth looking at.
Personally I get my general news from "The Week" magazine each week, which occupies half an hour on a Saturday morning. It has a selection of articles from across the UK and international press, cut down to give an idea. This week I see ones from The Observer, the Financial Times, The Sunday Times and the Spectator. There's a coverage of america, with input from the NYT, Washington Post, National Review, New Republic, Bulwark and Politico. Elsewhere coverage of Cuba includes stuff from Global and Mail in Toronto, Diaro de Cuba and El Salto in Madrid and 14YMedio in Havana.
Comment by cryo32 5 days ago
Comment by daveshistory 5 days ago
Edited to caveat: of course, if you ask an American what foreign newspaper they read, most of the time we will say none. But if we do, it's probably the Guardian.
Comment by SanjayMehta 5 days ago
Comment by cryo32 5 days ago
Comment by Devasta 5 days ago
A worthless rag of a paper.
Comment by zipy124 5 days ago
Comment by alansaber 5 days ago
Comment by defrost 5 days ago
Quack doctors spruiking amazing new treatments (that they hold shares in).
Automotive experts promoting car brands (that they receive advertising and influencer dollars for).
etc.
Comment by matsemann 5 days ago
Comment by jeltz 5 days ago
Comment by ifwinterco 5 days ago
Comment by pcf 5 days ago
Comment by vintermann 5 days ago
What's more extreme to me is people like NRK's economy commentator Cecilie Langum Becker, who I read today went over to a lucrative job as communication chief in Aker. A corporate PR person by trade, for 8 years, she had front page space every day to push austeritarian, interest-scold propaganda that would make The Economist blush. So good of our public broadcaster to promote voices we rarely hear from in the media /s.
Actual grass roots organizations, even for unsympathetic causes like anti-pride, worry me less than the whole Orkla-Schibsted consensus.
Comment by jeltz 5 days ago
Comment by vintermann 5 days ago
Either way, I think the focus should be on the "respectable" corruption, not on unhinged noisy attention seeking outsiders.
Comment by alansaber 5 days ago
Comment by vintermann 4 days ago
Comment by amiga386 5 days ago
Sometimes the expert benefits just by being in the news, see for example NPR banning the expert they quoted 77 times, law professor Carl Tobias. Mainly because he'd write to them offering his opinion on the topics of the day, and as he is a law professor, even if the topic isn't law, NPR journalists couldn't help but accept his quotes to pad out their articles. https://www.mediaite.com/media/nprs-new-rule-for-2026-stop-q...
Comment by buran77 5 days ago
Doctors commonly have kickback arrangements to prescribe specific medication. Sometimes it's the correct course of action they just always go for the particular brand, other times it's the wrong course of action but they prescribe it anyway for the kickback (the OxyContin scandal comes to mind).
Comment by defrost 5 days ago
This is a separate issue for media reporting on (say) new tanning treatments that are endorsed on screen during traditional "news hours" in undeclared infomercial segments that feature "independant" medical experts gushing over benefits of perineum UV treatments.
Frequently both the company that paid for the faux news segment and the guest experts that also benefit fail to have fiscal interests disclosed.
Comment by buran77 5 days ago
Comment by defrost 5 days ago
Doctors prescribing drugs recommended to them by pharma reps should disclose that connection.
On a media "news" program:
Producers of media programs should disclose any connection "experts" they interview on a subject have to the financial returns or funding of that subject.
Comment by NopIdoN 5 days ago
Comment by throw_a_grenade 5 days ago
Comment by alansaber 5 days ago
Comment by flumpcakes 5 days ago
Unless there is a clear conflict of interest, such as an "expert" urging a particular course of action which aligns to benefit their employers, then the audience should probably just engage their critical thinking a bit more.
The majority of UK experts will probably have opinions that align with UK ethics/morality/society and urge options that benefit the UK state and it's allies. I would assume that would be an absolute given too.
When I watch Chinese citizens give their expertise on matters, I know that it will probably align with the Chinese state and benefit them (as opposed to strictly the UK state). Have people lost all of their critical thinking skills?
Comment by k1m 5 days ago
That's exactly the issue
Comment by notahacker 5 days ago
How is an General Everard being a patron of an armed forces charity, a software company enhancing onboarding experiences, a skills training company or even an "informal network of strategic thinkers" who write blogs likely to influence his defence spending views more than being a general?
It's not like it's standard journalistic practice to provide the entire resume of any other type of commentator.
Comment by k1m 5 days ago
Army generals are in a position of trust, we assume they're acting in the public interest. Whether that's for more spending, more war, or less.
Here's an ex general's view on war and military spending:
> Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. - Eisenhower
The point is, there's clearly a problem if the public are getting opinions on this stuff from people who now have undisclosed private interests.
Shouldn't the public know that the former army general telling them that military spending needs to increase, now has the following roles?
> Paid positions included working part-time as a strategic advisor for Schroders bank, plus advisory roles at Helsing – a German AI defence start-up – and an insurance firm. ...spends 30 days per year “as a thought partner for Tony Blair in his role as Executive Chairman” at the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change. ...is chairman of Equilibrium Gulf Limited, which advises the crown prince of Bahrain on the autocratic country’s notoriously brutal interior ministry.”
Comment by notahacker 5 days ago
I mean, the public can look up his current roles and the grounds for clearing him to take them on a government website if they really want to https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/carter-nick-chief... Or read what some of his former US counterparts said about him on Wikipedia if they're searching for stronger reasons to disagree with him...
But like most adults, I understand that former generals are not magical bastions of neutrality towards the defence sector, but people who generally have a very strong interest in the government spending on the institutions they devoted most of their lives to (Even Eisenhower spent more of the government budget on his military than any of these guys would ever ask for...). So the likelihood someone has a bias towards spending money on soldiers is very well captured by describing them as a someone who had a long and distinguished career as a soldier, without the need to mention every other tangentially related job they might have had.
So no, I don't think any of these part time roles are remotely more relevant to Gen Carter's comments the UK should spend of its budget on defence increases than the fact he's worked in defence all his life, and the comments echo similar comments he made in more peaceful times in 2018 when he didn't hold any of these positions but was Chief of Staff for UK defence. Not even some part-time consultancy for a German drone startup that doesn't have any commercial relationship with the MoD, never mind his advisory work for banks, insurers or advice on questionable interior security operations in Bahrain. You might as well ask why you saw fit not to mention Eisenhower's role at Columbia University when quoting him.
Now if he was specifically saying "the MoD should focus on autonomous systems and procure hardware from German startups" his advisory position with Helsing might actually be more relevant to his desire to see more funding for the defence sector than his most prominent roles in the defence sector, and ACOBA might even question the appropriateness of his interventions. But that's not what he said, and so we can associate his throwaway quotes with the stuff he's actually known for.
Comment by epolanski 5 days ago
Presenting them merely as experts because they are "former X" creates a false impression of impartiality.
Comment by Ntrails 5 days ago
- Retired people with historic experience. The longer since they were actively involved in the sector, the less useful they will be of course. There is also going to be something of a demographics bias here.
- Currently employed people, and given their primary skillset is "Defense industry expertise" I'm going to posit that they always have a commercial role in the defense industry. Maybe there's some subset with a non-commercial role or a purely political role... but both of those have their own implications tooComment by epolanski 4 days ago
If somebody who has a commercial role in not one, but _two_ different defense companies, arguing for increase in defense spending is merely presented as a "retired officer" there is a huge information that is being omitted.
It's like having somebody arguing about banking regulations and presenting them as "award winning economist" or "former ministry of finances" and omitting the fact that he works in the banking sector now.
Comment by daveshistory 5 days ago
Comment by squeegmeister 5 days ago
Comment by itopaloglu83 5 days ago
Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media by Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky
Comment by dredmorbius 5 days ago
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Opinion_(book)#Manufact...>
Comment by bell-cot 5 days ago
(Not that the UK's gov't actually required outside corruption to ruinously squander military budgets. Try asking a naval historian about Britain's post-WWII aircraft carrier construction & refit fiasco.)
My point: News sources failing to flag defense sector conflicts of interest is a minor & downstream fuss over mediocre journalism. The real problem, from the PoV of someone who really cares about the UK and its future, is that Britain both wastes vast resources and punches far below its weight, due to its massive defense sector corruption & incompetence.
Comment by helsinkiandrew 5 days ago
If they are promoting defence spending or plugging their employers products that's bad, but using their experience to comment on the Iran war or Ukraine, or Russian/Chinese Spy networks doesn't seem that bad?
Comment by JdeBP 5 days ago
Comment by helsinkiandrew 5 days ago
I think most people would be surprised if ex senior military Personnel didn't think military spending should be increased.
Comment by cucumber3732842 5 days ago
When all you know is a hammer...
Comment by jimjohnny123 5 days ago
See for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBe_36XfZb4
UK military capability is not what perhaps persists in some people's imaginations, even compared to say 20 years ago.
Britain does need to increase military spending.
Comment by dgroshev 5 days ago
Comment by defrost 5 days ago
Comment by dgroshev 5 days ago
Comment by JdeBP 5 days ago
Comment by defrost 5 days ago
> "The expert claiming that cancer is bad was employed by the NHS five years ago"
from any media outlet quoting that "expert", yes. I'd also like the circumstances of their departure to be mentioned, should that be relevant to the claims.
I expect it as such things are also expected by the press council of the country I'm in, even though it can be an uphill battle getting such compliance.
Comment by SturgeonsLaw 5 days ago
Comment by dgroshev 5 days ago
Comment by SturgeonsLaw 5 days ago
I am fortunate enough to live in a country that is not being bombed, and I wish that for every human being.
Comment by ajsnigrutin 5 days ago
To skip the currently political sensitive topics of who is helping who with what, who feels the consequences, what prices are affected because of that, let's go a bit further in the past... for example, UK taxpayers money went for bombing Iraq for the "weapons of mass destruction" when Tony Blair already knew those didn't exist.
At some point you have to ask, is it really for defense, if you're bombing someone a quarter of a planet away? Are you really protecting your people at home by doing that, and are they happy their money is being spent for that instead of eg. healthcare, education, etc.?
Comment by fakedang 5 days ago
Defence spending is only as good as the government that controls it, but you can't be serious if you're discounting the importance of military readiness at all times, given the world we live in.
The UK's military spending has always been much more justifiable, especially given that the country actually spends a lot on education and healthcare too (and I will argue that both of them are some of the SOTA systems in the world currently, in spite of their challenges).
Comment by ajsnigrutin 5 days ago
I mean... UK airforce is literally protecting the skies of the agressor in that war, the genocidal one. Didn't do anything to stop the genocide though.
As someone not from US nor UK, but from a small country that always seems to send a van of soldier a year after the war has started, i'd be much happier if both the brits and the yankees stayed back home on their "islands" and within their borders, I don't want to pay for our soldiers to go to another afghanistan-style expedition again too; it doesn't help us at all to be a part of the agressive occupier, the locals there hate us, and somehow we even leave their local traitors behind (eg. in afghanistan).
Here's one article by someone relevant to this post: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/08/08/israel-has-littl...
Israel has "no choice", right.
Comment by dgroshev 5 days ago
But even if you want to do that, why don't you go just a couple more years further and argue that Bosnians should've been left to be genocided?
Comment by chadgpt3 5 days ago
Comment by ajsnigrutin 5 days ago
Again, nothing to do with defending the british people.
In a democracy, any military action (except fighting pack when directly attacked) should start with a referendum to see if people actually want to pay for that. (it also makes it less problematic for the other side to destroy the infrastructure when fighting back, since it's not just some smiling Tony choosing to attack then, but the people too).
Comment by f6v 5 days ago
Comment by _djo_ 5 days ago
The pressures of fighting an existential war plus the demands of the public in a democracy have closed off most typical avenues for corruption, forcing a focus on battlefield results and effective supply to the front-line.
Nobody in the Ukrainian military is advocating for military spending for corrupt reasons, but for the country to remain independent in the face of a Russian military invasion.
Comment by f6v 4 days ago
Stop with whataboutism, please. My taxes don’t go to the Russian military, so I couldn’t care less.
Comment by _djo_ 4 days ago
Corruption is intensely damaging, especially in wartime, and shouldn’t be tolerated. That we’re not seeing many cases of corruption despite the intense scrutiny on the Ukrainian armed forces shows that things are both much improved and heading in the right direction.
That said, I’ve now spent enough time countering what was a low-effort throwaway comment from you in the first place, and which felt less like a valid complaint and more like an outdated belief. If you have any substantive evidence of large-scale corruption, worse than comparative forces, and being tolerated and ignored, I’ll re-engage.
Comment by f6v 6 hours ago
This just shows you're not frequent in Ukrainian Telegram scene. The situation members of UAF report there is totally different.
> If you have any substantive evidence of large-scale corruption
The political corpse of Yermak is still warm. Umerov has been named in Mindichgate, as well as Firepoint. It's all very fresh and there has been no resolution. I don't know much more evidence of large-scale corruption you want.
Comment by dgroshev 5 days ago
Comment by rigonkulous 5 days ago
However, murder is meat. Wars feed people. Not often the 'right' people, but the moment one starts drawing another such thin line about who and who doesn't deserve to be fed, the narcissist demon draws closer and so then, is the warrior devil justified.
Anti-war rhetoric is unpopular, it is true - but there is more of it out there than most people realize, or else we'd all be ash already. Warrior narcissists are only given the space for such identity by quiet, humble peace-makers. Get louder about making peace and stay proud about it.
Comment by XorNot 5 days ago
Comment by rigonkulous 5 days ago
You can say as many stupid things as you want, until the war crimes are prosecuted, the war criminals will continue to get away with war.
Comment by nradov 5 days ago
Comment by rigonkulous 4 days ago
This is also the reason Western war criminals are currently free to continue their heinous blood-shed.
If you want to prosecute their war criminals, you better prosecute yours first, or else the moral cliff upon which you climb is merely a shadow.
Comment by nradov 4 days ago
Comment by rigonkulous 2 days ago
Make peace, assholes.
Comment by advisedwang 5 days ago
Comment by RobotToaster 5 days ago
Comment by rigonkulous 5 days ago
Comment by TiredOfLife 5 days ago
Comment by rigonkulous 5 days ago
Comment by einpoklum 5 days ago
2. Reading the article we note there's quite some overlap between arms industry links and links to Israel's fundraising and lobbying circles. I wonder whether UK media discloses those links.
Comment by philipallstar 5 days ago
What do you mean? As in invading other countries?
Comment by defrost 5 days ago
* assisting US offensive actions,
* weapons sales for offensive usage (eg: The UK government admits that Saudi Arabia has used UK weapons, made by companies around the UK, in its attacks on Yemen.)
Comment by philipallstar 5 days ago
Comment by defrost 5 days ago
Perhaps direct your Socratic Simplicio more accurately.
Comment by philipallstar 5 days ago
> > Almost all of that sector's activity involves offensive activity.
> What do you mean? As in invading other countries?
Comment by defrost 5 days ago
Comment by shevy-java 5 days ago
Comment by philipallstar 5 days ago
Why wouldn't you call a military action to stop Argentina invading them "defence"?
Comment by flumpcakes 5 days ago
What countries have a defense sector, if the UK doesn't?
Comment by TheOtherHobbes 5 days ago
Last time I looked Iran and the UK are quite some distance from each other, and Iran has inexplicably neither been launching missiles at the UK, nor threatening to, and is apparently not even capable of it.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crm120x4lzxo
So the justification for these "defensive" bombing runs on Iranian mountain sites from Fairford remains mysterious.
The UK's arms industry is - like most things associated with the establishment - an exercise in turning privilege into cash, so it's not a surprise to see Senior Figures doing the media rounds in establishment narrative factories like The Telegraph and The Daily Mail.
Readers with the money and connections to make a difference already know how the game is played.
Readers who don't should perhaps be allowed to keep their happy fantasy that the UK isn't one of the most corrupt countries in the world, as a mercy.
Comment by graemep 5 days ago
> one of the most corrupt countries in the world
A ridiculous exaggeration given what a lot of other countries are like.
Comment by megous 5 days ago
I guess it's debatable whether the drone attack was proportional. I'd say that attack on clearly military installation of active ally is proportionate. Bombing bases in Britain would be more appropriate I think, since that's where the bombers that attacked Iran flew from and were loaded with weapons.
Comment by einpoklum 5 days ago
Note my comment above. If anything, it was under-proportional. It may also be mentioned that Akrotiri base is a remanent of the British colonial occupation of Cyprus. See also:
https://greekcitytimes.com/2026/03/09/protests-cyprus-britis...
Comment by einpoklum 5 days ago
Oh, you mean that base the UK had let the US use for its attacks on Iran?
https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2026/3/2/starmer-lets-us-...
> Iran has also been sponsoring terrorism in the UK.
You remind me of that 'Yes Prime Minister' episode when Hacker and Humphrey decided to announce they were expelling so-many Soviet diplomatic staff because they were supposedly engaged in espionage.
Comment by cryo32 5 days ago
They are also allied with Russia who are doing the same.
They aren't some innocent party here. Geopolitics is complicated and not some black and white good guy bad guy mechanics.
Comment by dgroshev 5 days ago
Comment by roenxi 5 days ago
Claiming that the UK doesn't support diplomacy through violence then transitioning into this gem has to be one of the wildest juxtapositions I've seen this year. Do you classify the US strikes on Iran as uniformly offensive or defensive in nature? Or do you think there is a mix? How would you classify a US bombing run on anti-air defences in the opening phase of the conflict?
Comment by flumpcakes 5 days ago
It's pretty obvious how the the UK's actions vs. Iran's, or even the US's, are different.
Comment by roenxi 4 days ago
Well, no in fact it isn't. Hence the question. Like, say the US bombs an Iranian city then the Iranians counter-strike a US base somewhere in the Middle East with an IRBM or whatever they are called. Sake of argument, the base isn't being actively used in the attack.
If the US response to that strike is to destroy the launcher, are you going to characterise that response as fundamentally offensive or defensive in nature? The US isn't hitting the launcher in a premeditated way. Note that the US base probably isn't on US soil since Iran can't hit targets that far away.
Comment by megous 5 days ago
If UK/US wanted to be in the in the clear they could have asked UNSC to authorize use of force against Iran.
Comment by _djo_ 5 days ago
Its role has been entirely defensive, and legal under international law as part of the right to self-defence.
Comment by megous 4 days ago
UK got involved in bombing Iran even when attack on its base on Cyprus came from Lebanon and would have made more sense to attack the source of the attack if the goal was actual self-defense. That is if we accept the decision was in response to the attack itself, and not to pressure and public humiliation from Trump. Also Turkey also got under missile attack from Iran, and managed to use diplomacy/other means to de-escalate. So not joining the war was a possibility.
Instead of self-defence or helping stop the war, UK helped aggressors in making their attacks easier and deepened/prolonged the war that way, at great cost to the world. At a time when de-escalation was still possible, UK chose to contribute to the war on the side of the aggressors. Who knows why. Maybe they believed it would be a quick war or whatever and Iran would collapse quickly just like the countries UK decided to aggress against in the past like Iraq.
Comment by _djo_ 4 days ago
Similarly, permission for US aircraft to use British bases was given conditionally, allowing only strikes on Iran’s missile and drone infrastructure being used to target other countries, and was given after the war had begun and after the drone strikes on Cyprus.
Those strikes on Cyprus involved Iranian-manufactured drones provided to Hezbollah, an Iranian proxy, and the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps explicitly took credit for the strikes on Cyprus. So let’s not pretend this was some unrelated attack.
Notably, many other countries sent military forces to protect Cyprus too, including Greece, France, Spain, the Netherlands, and Italy, with Ireland even offering to join. Several of those countries were strongly opposed to the war and had denied the use of their airspace and bases to the US. Were they all ‘acting in defense of aggressors’ too?
Once again, it’s possible to both condemn the actions of the US and Israel in their violations of international law while also condemning Iran for doing the same. The illegality of one does not justify the illegality of the other.
Comment by themgt 5 days ago
Reminds of the old joke, "What propaganda? We don't have propaganda."
Comment by CrzyLngPwd 5 days ago
It didn't attack anyone until it was attacked.
It has been defending itself.
Comment by _djo_ 5 days ago
That goes far beyond what’s permissible in international law in response to an attack.
In my view the US and Israeli attacks on Iran were illegal, reprehensible, and deeply stupid. But that doesn’t mean Iran is allowed to do whatever it wants afterward, especially to countries not directly involved in hostilities. In this case Iran has also broken international law.
Comment by CrzyLngPwd 4 days ago
Iran attacked US forces and bases all across the Gulf, which played pivotal roles in the USA/Israel attacks.
Radars, airfields, HIMARS installations, airports used for refuelling US tankers, and anywhere that hosted the aggressors in any way were and are fair game.
You can't say Iran attacked innocent and peaceful Kuwait whilst ignoring the US forces firing HIMARS into Iran from Kuwait. Iran has every right to attack those US forces wherever they are parked.
Comment by _djo_ 4 days ago
I see you snuck in ‘airports used for refuelling US tankers’ there, but Iran hit passenger terminals and other civilian-only parts of airports. That’s not permitted under international law.
Moreover, none of the Gulf countries allowed US forces to strike Iran from their territory, such as HIMARS firings, until after they were first attacked by Iran.
Being sceptical of US and Israeli motives is one thing, but that shouldn’t cause you to give Iran a free pass to break international law with impunity.
Comment by CrzyLngPwd 4 days ago
One man's civilian object is another man's barracks.
Also, mistakes happen, as demonstrated by the US targeting of a school.
Those Gulf states also got involved by shooting down Iranian drones, planes and missiles. Heck, the UAE even directly attacked Iran during the active phase of the US/Israel coalition attack, so they cannot pretend they were innocent.
I'm surprised that Iran didn't render the region uninhabitable by destroying desalination plants.
Comment by _djo_ 4 days ago
None of the civilian structures and facilities hit by Iran in neighbouring Gulf countries were hosting US forces. Again, that might have been justifiable depending on proportionality and the selectivity of targeting, but it didn’t happen.
Nor did Iran disclaim the attacks as mistakes. It only did so in one case, claiming over-eager local commanders, but didn’t indicate what it had done to prevent a recurrence.
There was nothing wrong with Gulf states shooting down Iranian drones, planes, and missiles being launched at them, that’s basic self-defence. Similarly, the UAE launched strikes on Iranian launchers only after first being hit, which is also basic self-defence in terms of international law.
By excusing Iran’s own illegal actions and war crimes you’re no better than the cheerleaders of the US and Israel’s illegal actions and war crimes.
Iran hitting the region’s desalination plants would’ve been a nuclear option, which would almost certainly have invited a wider global response to it and resulted in the end of the regime.
Comment by CrzyLngPwd 4 days ago
Comment by cryo32 5 days ago
However it should have been dealt with earlier rather than latent bombing.
Comment by CrzyLngPwd 5 days ago
Anyway, I live in the UK, and I don't swallow the same propaganda as you.
Comment by cryo32 5 days ago
Do you know any actual Iranians? I do!
Comment by jeltz 5 days ago
Comment by cryo32 5 days ago
Comment by einpoklum 5 days ago
Not directly, mostly; and not through land grabs. The age of land grabs is pretty much over - but imperialism lives on in different form - including massive military interventions and covert operations for manipulating or replacing regimes, more that properly conquering and settling lands.
Today's UK is not an independent empire of this kind. It used to be; but now it is relegated to being a junior partner in its alliance with the US empire, mostly, and with the EU, to a lesser extent. This is reflected in its top 10 arms recipients, e.g. for 2024 [1]:
Saudi Arabia, £14bn United States of America, £8.3bn France, £5.2bn Qatar, £3.5bn Italy, £2.8bn Oman, £2.5bn Turkey, £2.3bn India, £2.3bn Norway, £2.2bn United Arab Emirates, £1.7bn
and there are also arms Israel for about £0.572bn; and the arming of Ukraine, a cooperation with both the US and European powers, as part of NATO's struggle against Russia.
The UK also sends troops as part of US imperial interventions, e.g. in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya. There are also UK-dominated or UK-only interventions abroad, but mostly if we go a few decades back [2].
[1] : https://www.thenational.scot/news/24272310.uk-arms-exports--...
[2] : https://www.declassifieduk.org/the-uks-83-military-intervent...
Comment by RobotToaster 5 days ago
Comment by _djo_ 5 days ago
Comment by anonymousDan 5 days ago
Comment by tardedmeme 5 days ago
If Iran struck all of the UK's missile factories and military bases, would it be considered a defensive or offensive action?
Comment by flumpcakes 5 days ago
I would assume there's a bunch of countries around Iran that appreciate UK's help in intercepting missiles.
I would assume there's a bunch of countries around Iran that don't appreciate the US starting a war of choice.
Comment by pbiggar 5 days ago
Comment by flumpcakes 5 days ago
Are you arguing that the entire world should never provide aid to other countries? Surely you're just calling for imperialist powers to gobble up the planet piece by piece.
Comment by subscribed 5 days ago
Comment by holoduke 5 days ago
Comment by throawayonthe 5 days ago
Comment by Npovview 5 days ago
Comment by enoint 5 days ago
Comment by coldtea 5 days ago
It has centuries of exactly that at a global scale, and continued post-war neo-colonial land grabbing and pressuring, plus eager participation in all the imperialist games of its larger brother.
I mean, just mentioning "Tony Blair" is enough...
Comment by happymellon 5 days ago
Comment by coldtea 4 days ago
Not to mention he was never punished even for blatant violations, has been trusted with positions of power and influence since, and is making a public political comeback in 2026 too.
Comment by foldr 5 days ago
Comment by coldtea 5 days ago
Yeah, just a few decades years, to secure oil deals and/or keep control of the region. No biggie.
That this can be said with a straight face about invasions to two countries that created civil war, suffering, hundreds of thousands of deaths, displacement, etc, is telling of the ever-present colonialist mindset.
Comment by foldr 5 days ago
Comment by roenxi 5 days ago
For anyone else interested, negotiations that could lead to the US leaving Iraq and fully returning control to the Iraqi people are also going swimmingly, according to reports.
Comment by foldr 5 days ago
Comment by roenxi 5 days ago
Comment by foldr 5 days ago
Comment by dgroshev 5 days ago
For all their failures, the allies never bombed cities with nerve agents.
Comment by ZeroGravitas 5 days ago
> Saddam committed crimes of aggression during the Iran–Iraq War
Which links to a page about the war:
> Iraq was aided by [...] the United States, the United Kingdom,
> After years of military and economic losses, decreasing morale, intensifying Iran–U.S. relations, and little international action against Iraqi attacks on Iranian civilians, Iran agreed to a ceasefire with Iraq under United Nations Security Council Resolution 598.
So they basically did.
Comment by dgroshev 5 days ago
Comment by ZeroGravitas 5 days ago
What do you think an llm would say if you asked it:
> Did the US and UK support Saddam Hussein when he was using weapons of mass destruction on Iranian civilians?
Comment by dgroshev 5 days ago
It's a motte-and-bailey fallacy that starts with countries and leaders having relationships in a global, interwoven world and ends with excusing a blood-thirsty dictator as if they had no agency.
Comment by thrownthatway 4 days ago
Comment by specproc 5 days ago
We do, as you rightly note have quite the history of a policy of imperialist land grabs, now we just play a support function to somebody else's empire.
Comment by foldr 5 days ago
Comment by specproc 5 days ago
In Germany, historically the strategic issue was anti-communism, but now it serves as a military logistics hub; in Iraq, it's about trade in oil in dollars and access to Iraqi oil fields for US companies.
The UK is more complex and more total, ranging from support in the security council, to access to markets for US goods and services, to stationing of US troops and hardware. Most of our economy is geared up for the benefit of US investment funds.
Any government, whether it be Germany, Iraq or the UK, which tries to alter any of these fundamentals will quickly find out the extent to which their land has been grabbed.
Comment by foldr 5 days ago
Comment by specproc 5 days ago
Whether troop presence is viewed as occupation or not in each of the >50 [1] countries currently "hosting" troops is very much a matter of personal perspective, the fringeness of which will vary from country to country.
I don't believe that it really changes the fact that yes, US troops occupy the UK, Germany and Iraq, and many more. The most substantial deployments, e.g., Germany, Japan, South Korea, and until recently Iraq and Afghanistan, were very much the product of invasions. At the time of those invasions, many of those on the receiving end would have very much felt on the receiving end of a land grab. It's just their grandchildren have been conditioned to view this state of affairs as natural.
The general pattern is "bomb the bejesus" [2] out of a country. Plant base. Install a friendly government and ensure a favourable operating environment for US interests. The UK is an exception in that it wasn't bombed by the US, but the upshot is the same. We're a wholely-owned subsidiary of corporate America, and a giant aircraft carrier on the other side of the Atlantic -- as the US's latest adventure in Iran has clearly demonstrated.
You may quibble over the "land" in land-grab, but the strategic bits (e.g., oil fields, bases) are very much owned, and the territory as a whole controlled by pliant governments.
[^1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_oversea...
[^2]: Kissenger, 1972
Comment by thegrimmest 5 days ago
Nations (and people) exist in an ecosystem, and so will always behave accordingly, and always in their own interests. There are some emergent properties of ecosystems, one of which is that optimal behaviour is to acquire the maximum you are physically capable of defending, not the minimum that you need to survive.
It's perfectly reasonable for the US, the big fish in the pond, to leverage its advantages accordingly, and to the maximum. It would be a disservice to the US people if it did not. Smaller fish should indeed be glad that the big fish is as placid and strategically (rather than ideologically) motivated as it is, given the historically experienced alternatives.
Comment by specproc 4 days ago
All empires function differently. The modes of empire were very different between the British and other recent European empires, which were very different to the Soviets, the Ottomans, the Romans.
Empires are heterogeneous even within themselves over time and across Geographies. The British empire took a very different form in Ireland, to the Americas, to India, to Kenya.
Similarly the Soviet experience was very different between the Ukraine, the Baltics, Georgia, Tajikistan; or in non-Soviet Warsaw pact countries, which were -- as for most countries in the American empire -- nominally independent, but practically not, see Hungary and Czechoslovakia for particularly pertinent examples.
Ultimately, this is a duck test thing. The American empire looks like an empire, acts like an empire, so to my mind it very much is an Empire.
> The US does not maintain colonies
This, I'm sorry, is categorically false. America has colonies in American Samoa, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands.
I'd go further to suggest, that as Israel's most substantial economic and political backer, Israel could be considered something akin to a US colony in the Middle East.
Comment by thegrimmest 4 days ago
Following your argument, every major power could be considered imperialistic, which kind of defeats the purpose of the word. Aye the US maintains some minor, vestigial, colonies. However it does not engage in imperial conquest. South Korea, Iraq, and Afghanistan are not part of US territorial holdings, and it was never a US war objectives to make them so.
We have to draw some lines somewhere, otherwise "imperialist" just means "really big". If you disagree, name a non-imperialist world power.
Comment by specproc 1 day ago
Territorial conquest here is very much a legal, not a practical distinction. To return to my previous point, different empires function differently. I don't think absorption into one's de-jure territory is is necessarily a defining characteristic here. Much of India under the British, for example, was run through vassals.
To address your question directly, I'd say India is a major world power, with about four times the population of the US, and you'd be hard pressed to describe them as an empire.
China, for its part, maintains three overseas bases, only one of which in a country it has sent troops into during a conflict (Cambodia). This is in comparison to over fifty US bases, the largest of which are all very much the result of invasions.
In the 21st century, China has had a few border skirmishes with India. In the 21st century alone, the US has fought in Afghanistan, Yemen, the Philippines, Iraq, Somalia, Pakistan, Libya, Uganda, DRC, CAR, South Sudan, Niger, Syria, Iran, Ukraine, Palestine, Lebanon, Venezuala, and Nigeria.
If you want to pin me down on a definition, I'd say an empire is a network of countries, controlled by and for the benefit of a central country, predominantly taken by force and maintained at least to some extent through the threat of force.
How would you define one?
Comment by thegrimmest 1 day ago
I tend to agree. The keyword is "control". The US does not control, it influences. The distinction is of kind, not of degree.
As a contrast I offer the former-Soviet empire, which was very much controlled from Moscow in a way Berlin is simply not controlled from Washington today. Much in the same way that Russia is attempting to control eastern Ukraine.
We need different words for these very different modes of existence. The Soviets controlled so they were an empire. The US influences so, despite being very large and powerful, and using that power to further its interests, it is not.
Empire is not defined by number of wars. China/Beijing exercises control over several nations that would otherwise be independent of it (Tibet, Xinjiang, Hong Kong, nominally Taiwan). Modern India is not an empire (though Mughal India very much was), neither is it exactly a major world power.
Comment by thrownthatway 4 days ago
Comment by thrownthatway 5 days ago
Comment by coldtea 5 days ago
Just because Britain couldn't afford it anymore. And after bloodshed, in India, Kenya, Cyprus, Malaysia, and elsewhere. Not out of the bigness of their heart.
And the post-colonialism never ended. The same grabby hands get everywhere they can get.
And why exactly are those "small overseas territories" unquestionably retained? "No biggie, just an island here, an island there, and island there, some land in here"
Comment by thrownthatway 5 days ago
Historically I’ve found your comments informative, well thought out, and entertaining.
Here’s the Wikipedia article on the BOTs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Overseas_Territories
I’m willing to acknowledge those locales probably remain British territories, at least some of them, as an spect of projecting force, in addition the to historical quirks.
I probably don’t know enough.
And, ultimately, it would be nice if everyone got along and was generally content to stay in their lane.
Would the former British colonies be doing better or worse had they never been colonised? Quite possibly better. We’ll never know. At least some of the former colonies have failed spectacularly. That’s probably a good enough reason to never try any of that again.
I’m trying to steelman your arguments here Mr coldtea. Not only that, I have also raged against what happened in a similar manner from time to time.
Comment by jimjohnny123 5 days ago
It's not necessarily correct to assume that they failed because they were previously colonised by the British. Should we have instead allowed other powers to colonise them? That is the only realisitic counterfactual here. Can we truly say the world would have been better off if the British had not colonised various countries, for example when it came to waging the Second World War?
Comment by thrownthatway 5 days ago
Comment by keybored 5 days ago
Comment by flumpcakes 5 days ago
Comment by keybored 5 days ago
Why did British people decide to move from the Northern Hemisphere to this island? Because the climate looked similar?
And yes, here is a dispute between a historically imperialist versus a settler state. It’s weird.
Comment by juanani 5 days ago
Comment by tempfile 5 days ago
Comment by philipallstar 5 days ago
Comment by tempfile 5 days ago
As the other commenter correctly guesses, you only have to open the news to find examples. Iran, Palestine, Iraq (way back when). Most "wars" are not really wars these days, they're just exercises in western aggression.
Comment by philipallstar 5 days ago
In that case - why do you think it's "in a large proportion of their business"?
Comment by constantius 5 days ago
Comment by roysting 5 days ago
Comment by genewitch 5 days ago
How can any media that has underwriting or advertisers actually do genuine reporting? Ask yourself this!
The only way to really report on the "news" is to not be supported by advertisers or underwriting.
I've known this since Dr. Naji Dahi's class in 2002, with upkeep by Adam Curry and John C. Dvorak, as well as having worked for ABC and a KKR Joint that's all up in "media".
Comment by coliveira 5 days ago
Comment by genewitch 5 days ago
I really need to sit down and think for a while to remember how i used to explain this, because it nearly always got a "oh... that kinda makes sense... dang"
Comment by austinallegro 5 days ago
Military Experts Named:
Nick Carter Chris Deverell James Everard Nick Houghton Mark Carleton-Smith Rupert Jones Richard Kemp Stuart Peach David Richards Patrick Sanders Richard Shirreff Sir Peter Wall Ben Wallace Alan West Penny Mordaunt Greg Bagwell Richard Barrons Tim Collins Richard Dannatt
Media Outlets Named:
The Telegraph Daily Mail Express The Independent iPaper The Sun LBC Sky News Times Radio Channel 4 News
Comment by nephihaha 5 days ago
Comment by shevy-java 5 days ago
It's also a problem because who controls those media? So the taxpayers are at the least two times at a disadvantage here, private interests funding private media, to then set the agenda of reporting very selectively - or not at all in certain areas.
Comment by Npovview 5 days ago
Comment by gyanchawdhary 5 days ago
PS: the UK is not the state of California.
Comment by br121 5 days ago
Comment by gyanchawdhary 5 days ago
Regardless, when the topic is national security, defence- ector experience is often exactly the expertise you want... not some acadmic or commie whod rather we not
Comment by NVHacker 5 days ago
Comment by Lapsa 5 days ago
Comment by meta_gunslinger 5 days ago
Comment by chadgpt3 5 days ago
Comment by thesamethrowawa 5 days ago
Comment by meta_gunslinger 5 days ago
Comment by chadgpt3 2 days ago
Comment by meta_gunslinger 1 day ago
Comment by meta_gunslinger 5 days ago
Comment by gib444 5 days ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M-qsVS8zeU
On top of ton of social programming with an overrepresentation of eg mixed race couples in shows
Comment by wizzwizz4 5 days ago
Comment by thesamethrowawa 5 days ago
Comment by Pay08 5 days ago
Comment by porkyhalal 5 days ago
Comment by thesamethrowawa 5 days ago
Comment by thesamethrowawa 5 days ago
Comment by Sam6late 5 days ago
Comment by sourcegrift 5 days ago
Comment by cwillu 5 days ago
“Of course, holding private-sector roles after military service is both lawful and commonplace. This is not the point of this report. Rather, the concern highlighted here is about the UK’s media.”
“The findings presented here do not argue that the individuals identified are acting improperly, nor that their analyses lack merit, however we assert that the public has a right to full and relevant information when evaluating expert commentary, particularly where it involves lives, public expenditure, and international security.”
“It is important to note that this report does not allege wrongdoing on the part of the individuals identified, nor on the part of the publications presented within the pages of this report.”
Practically every third paragraph reiterates this.
Comment by daveshistory 5 days ago
Comment by br121 5 days ago
Comment by flumpcakes 5 days ago
Russia despises the UK. The UK does have a few right wing pro Russia people, just like the US does. Just like most of Europe does. It is the fringe view and not reflected in state policy.
Comment by SuddsMcDuff 5 days ago
"Right wing" people like George Galloway? Put your obvious bias aside for a moment and just say "a few pro Russia people".
Comment by flumpcakes 5 days ago
> obvious bias
The rise of a few right parties with sympathy to Russia was on my mind. Although that talk has seemed to have quieted with more national issues taking up breath.
Comment by SuddsMcDuff 5 days ago
Comment by sourcegrift 5 days ago