Dumbphone 2
Posted by skogstokig 6 days ago
Comments
Comment by sthuck 5 days ago
I think for most people, just putting an extra step between you and whatever toxic app(s) you have can be enough. It mostly works for me, and as an added bonus you get insane battery life. I would try that before buying a new phone.
Comment by aqme28 5 days ago
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Comment by Cider9986 5 days ago
iPhone dumbphone
695 points 9 months ago 396 comments
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45171200
Android basically what I do: https://jordanherzstein.neocities.org/posts/adb_vanadium/
Just add a long password for the owner profile, live in the user profile and you're golden.
Comment by mm263 5 days ago
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Comment by Svip 5 days ago
My list of requirements isn't long: 1) should make/receive phone calls, 2) should make/receive text messages, 3) have physical buttons and 4) preferably use 4G and be able to create hotspots (the last requirement, I have deviated on occasionally, like with my current phone). A requirement 0, if you will, is that it needs to do these things at high quality. But in one way or another, they suffer wildly in either hardware or software, or both. Often to the point, where I wonder if the creators themselves use them.
The two Nokias unfortunately have quite a few ad programs (like Facebook of all things), that just clutter up its menu (but which I can thankfully just ignore), its T9 dictionary is weak (though this will be a recurring theme, they are all bad at doing T9 dictionary typing), and its text message storage is severely limited. The Punkt. MP02 had high quality hardware, but again its T9 typing was frustrating, and eventually mine just bricked. The Mudita Pure was probably the worst one, though: it only supported characters A-Z, despite being developed in Poland, which is frustrating when living in a country, that regularly uses characters beyond that. The Doro 7030 had bad buttons, that often wouldn't properly click, leading to missed characters while typing, and it had an annoying behaviour, where sometimes it would just miss calls, and its T9 typing was abysmal.
I still have all the phones (except the Mudita Pure, which I sold to someone in Greece, even though I explicitly warned them it would not work at all with Greek letters, which they later confirmed, as it was just showing squares), and I am generally sad, that it feels like a bit of an electronic waste.
And why not a dumbed down smartphone, then? My requirement 3 isn't debatable, I loath touch screens; they are - for me at least - the bane of modern existence. I cannot avoid them entirely, but I can lower my own exposure. For example, when I bought an induction stove top, I made sure to get one with knobs.
Maybe when I feel ready again, I will try my hand at another[0]...
Comment by speak_plainly 5 days ago
You can’t browse the web or install addictive apps. But you can get your mail, texts, and phone calls and you can listen to music, check the weather, and navigate with a map. It also has a physical dial you use for scrolling.
There’s enough friction with the device that you aren’t glued to it, but it’s functional enough that you won’t miss leaving your phone or wallet at home. It mostly becomes a watch first and foremost but also has the perfect feature set as a phone replacement.
Comment by agiacalone 5 days ago
Once you get over the hump of "I don't need to be notified of everything" and start pairing down the notifications, I find that most of the time I can put my phone down and just get the right notifications on my watch.
When I need to respond to something, that's when I grab my phone (or laptop).
Comment by yayamo 5 days ago
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Comment by rjsw 5 days ago
It is a shame that it isn't widely available, someone could maybe write a Signal app for KaiOS.
Comment by saltysaltysalty 5 days ago
Otherwise great for calls and messages, that it! Works great for me
Comment by abc123abc123 5 days ago
Wifi hotspot is sadly what's frequently missing, I'd like that.
As far as I know, the mp02 or one of nokias Kaios phones are the only ones that provide that, but kaios is frequently called the retarded little brother of Android, so due to all the bugs I avoid those phones like the plague.
My emergency solution is to buy a separate 4g modem if I need hotspot functionality, but to be honest, wifi is so common these days, that I hardly ever need it.
Comment by dmfdmf 6 days ago
I'm looking for a dumb phone and this looked promising until no email. Email is underrated as a time saver, if you aren't getting hundreds of emails daily which is a choice. Email is not as urgent as text or phone calls and its main advantage is that it separates the sender/receiver schedule or timezone.
People need to learn to guard their time and schedule like a hawk and not operate in chronic reaction mode, i.e. someone else setting your priorities for the day.
Comment by sandcat_ 5 days ago
Why not just use a smartphone if you’re able to guard your time effectively?
I feel like the main reason people are interested in dumb phones is because they’ve identified that they personally can’t, for whatever reason. (Certainly that’s why I’m intrigued by them.)
Comment by jlund-molfese 5 days ago
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Comment by jeroenhd 5 days ago
I receive emails that need immediate attention and texts that can wait a day or two. The only urgency attached to these communication methods is the urgency you assign them.
The limited communication options and the frankly weird choices for what to include and what not to include (no email, WhatsApp and Uber are included?) make this a very weird product in my opinion.
Comment by scuderiaseb 5 days ago
Fortunately I have discipline enough that my smartphone is a glorified dumb phone with a great camera and some other useful apps. Everything else I try to offload to iPad since I am much less often on that device. It also takes a bit of time and effort but focus modes are great too.
Comment by tristanj 5 days ago
I noticed this made a huge difference, I'm much more focused on training and my gym sessions finish a lot faster.
Comment by smokel 5 days ago
I tried switching phones once a week, which was heavenly. Might try that again, it requires some discipline.
Comment by mrweasel 5 days ago
I need a smartphone for a few things every so often, but most of the time a dumb phone is perfectly fine.
Comment by tristanj 5 days ago
If you need synchronized phone / text messages, I suggest Google Voice. When anyone rings your (free) Google Voice number, it will forward the call to multiple phone numbers. It will ring as a regular phone call, not as an app notification. However, text messages appear as app notifications.
Comment by kennywinker 5 days ago
Comment by xdertz 5 days ago
Unfortunately I have to found one that speaks to me, as they are all from Chinese manufactures with questionable quality.
Comment by knz42 5 days ago
Comment by nfw2 5 days ago
It also is a pretty big brick to carry around. I remember it being sort of randomly buggy but haven't used it in months, so I don't remember the specific things that were issues.
Comment by elxr 5 days ago
Comment by Skwid 5 days ago
This was the way for me. I spent a good few years trying proper dumbphones, but I always needed an app for something. Carrying two phones didn't work, no off the shelf 'Smart, yet dumb' phone had the particular mix of features I needed.
The best half way house I found was a Nokia 2720, it runs Kai OS (Formerly Firefox OS), so very easy to throw a quick app together and add new features as needed. Unfortunately all the important apps were similarly thrown together, battery life was awful, calls, alarms and messages came through when they felt like it, the T9 predictive text was diabolically bad.
I went back to basic android for a while, tried all sorts of settings and methods to cut back, but I am just too vulnerable to their flashy attention grabbing tricks.
But the e-ink? Hot damn it worked. Everything I actually needed, and just enough friction that I don't use any more. The lack of colour certainly neutralises a lot of the attention grabbing tactics, but I think the real difference for me is the lack of fluidity. It's always just a device, and never reaches extension of self territory. It is truly refreshing how many times I've left the house without it and only noticed a few hours later.
As for manufacturers and quality, I went with a Hisense A9 as it seemed to have the best open source support at the time. It was a bit pricey considering the general specs, but when the screen is the bottleneck you don't miss the processor speed or camera quality. (I actually quite like the lousy photo experience, it feels a bit more like film, or early digital where you just have to shoot and hope it comes out ok)
Despite that, I've ended up sticking with the manufacturer ROM with just a few tweaks. Perhaps its selling all my data to the CCP, but it's rock solid and much more polished than any cheap android phone I've used previously. It's really well set up to get the best from the hardware too, in a way that the lineage port couldn't quite match.
If you think it might work for you, I'd definitely recommend giving it a try.
The main caveat I'd offer if you're trying to reduce your screen time is that it doesn't work if you primarily waste time reading. Reading is a joy with this, and I am much more likely than before to pick up an e-book or finish a long article I'd otherwise have skimmed.
Other quirks of the A9 if anyone is considering it: - The GNSS receiver is atrocious, it regularly fails to get a fix in clear open fields. - It's a small battery, low power phone. I usually get most of a week out of a charge, but one heavy background app can drop that to less than a day. Discord was the worst until stopping all background activity, WiFi hotspot is also pretty brutal on the battery. - The stock OS has a deliberately very limited notification system. Get used to intentionally checking for messages every now and then - Doesn't play nice with non-chinese carriers. Out of the box I had intermittent SMS, no VoLTE and regular call drops. All fixable via shuffling some files around over ADB though, see XDA for the how to - All specs are OK. The camera is OK. The speakers are OK. The processor processes. That's all you get. - Some apps are just not E-Ink friendly. Spotify and google maps are the worst I use regularly. Scrolling, full screen movement, contrast and dark themes are the enemy. They are both totally useable, but it can take more than a glance. - No IP rating, I don't go swimming with it but it sure rains a lot here and I don't like having to care + The 3.5mm output is gorgeous, sounds fantastic with any headphones I've tried. Easily the best of any smartphone I've used + It is very nice E-Ink. Lots of totally useable apps for the A9 would not be so on a lesser screen. + Though I rarely use it, the frontlight is very nice to have and intuitively controlled
Comment by jerlam 5 days ago
https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/6/18212311/palm-phone-review...
Comment by josteink 5 days ago
That limits the ability to use it (or buy it) in any «unsupported» country.
Comment by camillomiller 5 days ago
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Comment by mschild 5 days ago
A lot of banks in Germany still offer photoTAN generators. Effectively, a physical device that generates 2FA codes for your login. You can then use the website as usual and use the codes from this instead of phone confirmation. This is one example from ING.[0]
That way you can effectively use most feature phones as your daily drivers. HMD (Nokia) still manufacturers some of them that even come with GPS, etc. There are some feature phones that even run Android but I don't know what app support for things like Spotify is like.
Comment by lowdude 5 days ago
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Comment by Semaphor 5 days ago
Alternatively, keep a cheap smartphone around with nothing but the banking app on it.
Comment by rwl 5 days ago
I wouldn't necessarily mind a dedicated piece of hardware, but if it's dedicated hardware, I feel like the bank ought to provide it, not make me pay for it. And I'd much rather it be a generic piece of hardware that can also be used as a second authentication factor for other things, like a Yubikey. I've looked around but have not found any banks that offer this. The only one I had heard of no longer offers it.
Comment by natsucks 4 days ago
Comment by jorisw 5 days ago
I've seen people use Screen Time on iOS to help them 'adjust' their behavior. There was a thread on this just the other day: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48312443
Comment by iamnothere 5 days ago
“Sounds like a geospatial solution to a personal problem.”
“...”
Comment by sermah 5 days ago
Comment by jorisw 5 days ago
I suppose you're referring to engagement maximization algorithms (my words) of socials?
> already deep in their hands
If a person observes they're sensitive to these, do they really need an additional device to disrupt their reactive behavior and be a little bit more deliberate in what they do?
> remove or limit their products
Is deleting the apps or using them in moderation[1] really so hard?
[1] One form of moderation I've found is to disable notifications for those (if not all) apps. Again, seizing control instead of being reactive to whatever some platform/app/device decides to shove down your throat at any given time.
Comment by psd1 3 days ago
Anecdata: I implement most of my behaviours on a kilo of fatty meat and neurotransmitters. It's not a great stack; it has a massive attack surface. It's also orchestrated by an endocrine layer, which is precisely the wrong way round.
I didn't select this architecture, I was instantiated with it, and there isn't a nice migration path.
Zaibatsus - Meta, Condé Nast - outgun me and my biological peers by many orders of magnitude. They can attack vulns that should have been patched in the Precambrian, they have research departments, and they can A/B on millions. We're lambs to the slaughter.
Brain modules cannot be unloaded, so if you were compiled with `addictable=on` then you have no defence-in-depth against an entire class of attacks. If they get through the gate, they have a good chance at persistence.
Hth you understand the difficulties faced by bio-organism admins.
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