The purist's guide to phở in Hanoi

Posted by vinhnx 2 days ago

Comments

Comment by alex_c 9 hours ago

>How, the novice may ask, does one discover which version is the correct one for oneself?

>There is nothing else to it – you must eat a few hundred bowls of phở and find out. If this requires moving to Hanoi, so be it.

Not the worst life plan, to be honest!

A little bit sad that my own "death bed pho" - chicken pho from that one stall near the market in old quarter - gets just a passing mention as the only acceptable variation to traditional beef pho.

This also brings back memories of our "mystery pho man" - who had three tiny stools and one large pot outside his house every morning, looked like a character straight out of an 80's movie, and was usually sold out by 8am.

Vietnamese food has got significantly better in Toronto in the past 5-10 years - but still haven't found anything that comes even close to Hanoi chicken pho.

Comment by __mharrison__ 8 hours ago

My wife, who doesn't eat beef, once asked for chicken pho, and got an extreme talking to. She was sad because she had good chicken pho in the past.

Comment by ksaj 5 hours ago

My partner is Vietnamese, and also a chef. I've had every variation of pho one can think of. There is a group of snobs who think they authoritatively own the opinion and can only think of a single acceptable recipe (or chef, for that matter).

But let them be so limited on their own. This isn't a religion. It's a big world out there, and there are a gazillion awesome phos in it.

Comment by blt 2 hours ago

I knew that adding sriracha and hoisin was considered somewhat gauche / insulting to the chef. But I was surprised to see no mention of Basil, since every pho shop in the USA provides it. Is that also nontraditional? I really like it...

Comment by jandrewrogers 6 hours ago

The phở in the US is from southern Viet Nam, not Hanoi. It is significantly different than traditional Hanoi-style phở. Even in Hanoi the southern style is common, most people seem to prefer it.

Comment by palidanx 6 hours ago

In Orange County, CA there is another variant of pho ga kho, which literally translates to dried chicken pho. The rice noodles and chicken are stir fried, and served with a side of pho ga broth, and a sweet soy sauce.

Pho Dakao, 16171 Brookhurst St, Fountain Valley, CA 92708, United States

Also I got a recipe for pho ga from my aunt which is:

* 6 chicken legs, and 2 bone in breasts (or debone a whole chicken)

* Bring a pot of water to boil

* Parboil all pieces for 2 minutes, throw away the broth

* Char onion and ginger (in an air fryer or on a gas stove - air fryer is easier)

* Toast coriander seeds and star anise

* Add all ingredients back, bring to boil, then drop to a low simmer, and salt

* After 30 minutes remove the pieces, let it cool and debone

* Add the chicken bones back, cook for additional 30 minutes, season with salt and msg

* Optionally serve with a side of nuoc cham, but this variation has no fish sauce in the stock

How well this turns out depends on the quality of the chicken you buy. At the Asian markets, there are different breeds of chicken which have less meat, but are more flavorful.

Comment by vogon_laureate 9 hours ago

I've yet to visit Vietnam, but a phở my daughter and I had in Reykjavík was properly life-changing. I get the obsession.

Comment by sailorganymede 8 hours ago

I believe I had the same one? I remember travelling Europe and going to the same place like 3 times while I was in Iceland!

Comment by vogon_laureate 1 hour ago

Was it Mama Kitchen? https://mamakitchen.is/

Comment by mi_lk 8 hours ago

restaurant name if you want to share?

Comment by vogon_laureate 1 hour ago

Mama Kitchen. Just super chill lowkey place with incredible food. https://mamakitchen.is/

Comment by ValentineC 10 hours ago

Hanoi was where I had one of the best chicken pho ever — their menu allows one to select the parts of the chicken they wanted. I've never had the back meat of chicken in a pho before, and it was phenomenal.

And I found out about it from a random cafe barista. Sometimes it pays off just to ask someone where they'd eat nearby.

Comment by jrimbault 10 hours ago

Cheekily, might not the "purist" want a "pot-au-feu" ? (i have a sincere dislike of purity talk, especially in cookery)

The article mentions it, but doesn't disprove it.

Comment by pazimzadeh 10 hours ago

yeah purity seems overrated for almost anything except making drugs

Comment by doubletwoyou 9 hours ago

And semiconductors and air quality perhaps

Comment by anonymouscaller 8 hours ago

For us Americans who can’t make it out to Vietnam, I’ve found the best Pho in the US is in Orange County, CA and Boston’s Dorchester neighborhood!

Comment by thechao 2 hours ago

I've been told my old stomping ground (Houston) is extremely competitive. I've not eaten Vietnamese outside of Texas, so I can't really compare. It was shocking to me, when I moved to Portland, OR, to not have easy access to pho, banh mi, and vermicelli dishes. They kinda make up for it with poke bowls?

Comment by datlife 7 hours ago

You are missing out on San Jose. It has the largest population Vietnamese diaspora.

Comment by uxp100 14 minutes ago

I think that used to be true, but it has been overtaken by Houston. Either way, yes, good place to eat Vietnamese food.

Comment by neilfrndes 7 hours ago

Could you please share a list of your favorites in San Jose/Bay Area?

In San Francisco I love having pho in Chinatown. Golden Star Vietnamese Restaurant, Sai's Vietnamese, and Golden Flower are the ones I like the most.

Comment by eitally 6 hours ago

There are so many Vietnamese restaurants in San Jose it's really more similar to the Hanoi recommendation: you just have to experiment until you find the ones that resonate with your personal tastes. I recommend searching reddit for "best pho in San Jose" -- you'll find a number of threads, many of which feature similar sets of restaurants.

Comment by Aboutplants 7 hours ago

Philadelphia also has some incredible Pho shops, most in South Philly.

Comment by tonymet 7 hours ago

For those that do visit Vietnam admit that it’s better in the USA, too.

Comment by canjobear 7 hours ago

What are your OC recs?

Comment by dpicco 1 hour ago

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Comment by FlyingSnake 8 hours ago

I've traveled to Hanoi and absolutely loved the phở there. One perk of living in Berlin is the exceptional Phở we get here. Thanks to the large Vietnamese community we have great phở, Bahn mí (esp at the Dong Xuan center). The phở we get here is top tier too, as confirmed by my Vietnamese friends.

Comment by breakfastduck 7 hours ago

There's a Bahn mí place in Manchester, UK that does my fav one ever

Comment by pretense9393 7 hours ago

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Comment by pazimzadeh 10 hours ago

I was just in Hanoi. I stool in line for pho at "michelin rated" shops and had it in tiny stalls manned by a grandma or old couple. always go for the grandma..the michelin ones seem more dilute and cost more. For example, Pho 10 Ly Quoc Su vs. the stall right next to it.

Comment by MisterTea 9 hours ago

I have a friend who loves Vietnam and was just visiting. His advice is ALWAYS go out of the tourist areas. To paraphrase his words "The more the locals look at you funny, the more authentic it's going to be." And by funny, not in a bad way but more of "uh, you lost there buddy?"

Comment by throwup238 9 hours ago

If you can, always ask a local where to go. Most locals don’t want to wait in line unless it’s a special occasion and they know the best underrated and mom and pop restaurants. The ones with lines are usually tourist or internet hype traps and their food gets enshittified quickly.

I learned this the hard way during Marti Gras.

Comment by pazimzadeh 8 hours ago

Yeah. Some locals assume you’ll only like the touristy stuff though

Comment by dhosek 8 hours ago

Back when I lived in Orange County (and didn’t know how to pronounce phở), I used to joke about creating a restaurant that served phở made with Italian noodles and calling it Faux Phở.

Comment by dessimus 7 hours ago

Could go Greek-Vietnamese fusion with lamb and call it: "φ Faux Phở"

Comment by CarVac 8 hours ago

I've never been to Vietnam but there's a Hanoi-style pho place by me and it is head and shoulders better than any other pho I've ever had in the US.

Apparently most pho in the US is southern Vietnamese style?

Comment by windward 8 hours ago

Because most Vietnamese people in the US are southern Vietnamese. People who fled during what we'd call the Vietnam War*, and their descendants.

*Not the most recent war in Vietnam

Comment by reducesuffering 7 hours ago

Agree, I happened upon one in SF and was amused at the insistence there will be none of the bean sprouts, basil, etc. in South Vietnamese style. Although I do love those toppings, I agree this was the best I've had.

Comment by l5870uoo9y 7 hours ago

Pho is delicious, but Thai boat noodles soup (guay tiew ruea) is godly; dark, robust, and full of diverse flavors and nuances.

Comment by e40 2 days ago

Disappointing that there was not a single picture in the post. And, wow, it’s long!

Comment by stevenwoo 3 hours ago

There’s a small mention of beef bones having been customarily thrown away and I have doubts that that could be true at all levels of society - unless there was some Vietnamese cultural thing against it that no longer exists.

Comment by theoriginaldave 10 hours ago

He did speak a little distainfully of taking pictures of your pho or having your phone handy while eating.

I think the lack of pictures emphasizes focusing in the moment and enjoying the experience and then remembering it fondly later.