Dad brains: How fatherhood rewires the male mind

For me, sleep dropped off right after I got the "I'm pregnant" phone call. I'd only known this girl for [time it takes a baby to be detected] days.

My kids are young enough that I don’t need to worry about it yet, but I can totally see how I might have the same issue. Beyond just myself, my partner is just as invested in the kids and I can foresee needing to rediscover ourselves together. Do you have any advice, tips, or insights for new empty nesters?

  “So how old is your daughter?”

  > niece

  “So how old is your daughter?”

  > wife

Unlike my and many other's parents, I waited until I was older, more mature and planned beginning a family. Nonetheless, I suspect none of us were truly prepared for what that would mean—especially in the life-changing ways it manifest in.

So if some of us were not focused on our own health before going into fatherhood, I am not surprised. No doubt there are others that had checked off that box but started a family with much slimmer finances than I thought necessary to begin fatherhood.

In the end I suspect it is easy to Monday-morning quarterback my introduction to fatherhood and determine where I could have done better. At the same time, and I am considering my own upbringing, I could have done much, much worse. And yet most of us make it to adulthood with more or less healthy minds and bodies.

Same here. My son is approaching two, and he's a blast. He can be tiring, he can be a big ol’ mess, but he's never boring.

He's healthy and he eats well and he's a good sleeper, so he doesn't give us much to worry about. He charms everyone he meets, he explores everything, and every day is just a fireworks show of new delights and discoveries. I go on a business trip for 2-3 days and I come back to him doing new things.

Looking forward to the second kiddo!

"Making kids" is fun, duh.

Raising kids, however, can be very challenging in all sorts of ways. Physically, mentally, socially, etc. I became aware of just how much sleep deprivation affected me and for the sake of myself & my family I just sacrificed everything else to ensure I got good quality sleep. Fortunately, I was helped in this and I made damn sure everyone was supported when I was awake.

The whole experience is too much noise and not enough signal to me.

I never learned to be busy. I thought working 60-70h and studying weekends was busy, but that was just laziness-compensation.

Now I know how and the pure joy of having kids can be appreciated. Getting used to that was hard.

So we sorted out that challenge. There are many more ahead.

Every day with children for the last 6 years has been filled with crying, screaming, meltdowns, barely eating any type of food, and what they do eat changes from day to do, exhausting endless requests, so little free time. As a couple, my wife and I barely cope and our marriage is just about clinging on because we're exhausted and scrappy all the time.

I just don't recognise the life that online dads seem to have. I wish I was like them.

Worst though (spoiler), it may have become an even a bigger challenge as they have become starting adults. In many ways they were so much easier in elementary school… <lé sigh>

Pull at that thread and you'll land on the central mistake I made with my prior beliefs, and also a ton of things like, you know, stoic philosophy, cognitive behavioral therapy, and mindfulness. etc etc. The subjective is all you have.

What you just told me contradicts the studies. Return to baseline happiness with some temporary dips does not match "you're not having fun stop believing you are".

It means "all the enormous and sudden life changes and things you give up to have kids are a momentary blip in the radar, made up for by the pleasure of having kids".

I think he's saying that a manly man might not be soft and cuddly with a small child like a traditional mother would. But that is not necessarily detrimental. For instance, a guy might not want to coo and caw, or change the pitch of his voice, or giggle, things that some men find weak. But (perhaps - I don't know anything about children) the child may still respond positively to a male who used his normal voice and interacted with them however he naturally felt.

> You could do it differently, but that only works if you swap one, not share half half.

I disagree. But I started nurturing early by planning and orchestrating all our births (home, birth center, birth center, twins/hospital) and her prenatal care.

Much later, my wife developed psych issues and in the end I was performing all roles to our 5 sons. But well before then I was deeply into nurturing our sons as infants, toddlers, PreK and grade schoolers. I changed most of the diapers (cloth! for sons 1 & 2.). I packed lunches, did cub scout leadership, cleaned up the wounds and encouraged them to go get more.

Compared to competent moms and dads, I wasn't substandard, insufficient or compromised in any way.

Is that not easy to disregard? I certainly feel like my wife and I disregarded it raising our kids.

Single income doesn’t pay the bills. Period. Everything else is downstream.

One could argue that your talking about the dangers of these downstream effects is insulting and classist. Who is gonna pay these bills? Do you think we prefer that strangers raise our kids?

If we had a trust fund, we would raise our kids ourselves, and backhand brag on forums about how it is the right way. Sadly, we don’t.

Then you'll enjoy all the contrarian opinions on both sides. Also here in HN comments.

It would be unnatural for us to not do the things that would help our offspring survive.

Edit: removed a negative.

It’s not difficult at all. Minutes after birth, naked baby was on my naked chest, and bonding started. This never felt contrary to my instinct.

Sorry, what? The framing of this sentence alone has a very creepy vibe. I can't speak for all of us, but most us have strong protective instincts towards kids of all ages, especially the youngest ones.

> This is why many men find it difficult, it is contrary to instinct.

Contrary to whose instinct? If I had a kid, I would want to ensure his/her safety and success. Men in general yearn for it. And there's nothing that suggests men are incapable of it. Research indicates good outcomes. And I know fathers who are the sole care givers for young kids when life makes it inconvenient for the mother.

> Do hunter gatherers split care of tiny children? Whatever they do is what we’re wired for, mostly.

Hunter gatherer culture is at least ten thousand years old - plenty of time for social behavior to evolve. Modern humans, including men are very heavily invested in kids because humans can't have a lot of kids. Ensuring each one's safety becomes important.

Heck! Humans, including males are very nurturing and protective towards even children of other men and other species. Plenty of evidence that your assertion doesn't hold at all.

Hadza men spend enough time with their children that their T levels drop: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2674347/

Aka men are doting fathers to the point of letting their children suck on their nipples: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2005/jun/15/childrensser...

This is a nice survey of the role of fatherhood in various cultures, with a focus on foragers: https://anthro.vancouver.wsu.edu/media/documents/fa_role_201...

Near the beginning, the paper states that humans are extremely unusual in the rates of paternal investment that fathers do. With most species, the male dips out. Men don't always spend a lot of time on children, but they do have the wiring for it. It seems to be one of the many traits that sets humans apart from other species.

In very much more serious, but perhaps less kind thoughts, do you not get halfway through writing things like that without considering how fundamentally broken that thinking is? My heart seriously goes out to you, unless it’s not ok given I am pretty tall and you might be 12 or something so it may still be a few years before we can talk, but I may be dead by then and it feels like you could use a pal, lil buddy.

Probably you cannot average humans.

Nothing in life remotely matters to me as much as my kids. I would trade everything above for any one of my kids.

The distinctive qualities of the mother's womb are not as easily studied, but on the other hand it's pretty obvious that there are functions provided by the mother and her womb that cannot easily be replicated (i.e. replicated by a father).

None of this to say that fathers cannot or do not nurture and protect. It's just that replicating certain things is difficult and we shouldn't be so sure of ourselves yet. It's like trying to grow a plant without sunlight: possible, but only very recently, and still apparently too challenging to do at absolute scale.

No I rather pointing out that essential parts of nurture and protection are nursing and birthing.

Nurturing involves feeding. Birthing provides protection through biome, as explained in the comment you’re replying to.