How to make buffet breakfasts less wasteful

Posted by austinallegro 13 hours ago

Counter19Comment56OpenOriginal

Comments

Comment by baal80spam 13 hours ago

> BREAKFAST IS THE most important meal of the day

First sentence of the article and already an error.

Comment by martingoodson 12 hours ago

"Conclusions: This meta-analysis confirmed that skipping breakfast is associated with overweight/obesity, and skipping breakfast increases the risk of overweight/obesity. The results of cohort studies and cross-sectional studies are consistent. There is no significant difference in these results among different ages, gender, regions, and economic conditions."

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31918985/

Comment by oarfish 6 hours ago

It seems rather obvious that skipping breakfast is not causally related to obesity, rather it maybe correlates with other behaviors that are.

Comment by n8cpdx 12 hours ago

In the context of hotel buffet food service waste, it definitely is.

And if what you’re really trying to say is that you like intermittent fasting (which can have eating windows at any part of the day even if the meme is to start eating at traditional lunch hours) the first meal, that meal which breaks your fast, is, by definition, breakfast. This could be your only meal if taking intermittent fasting to its extreme - further evidence for it being most important.

The other way in which breakfast is most important, IMO, is that it sets the tone for the rest of the day. To be more specific, the first meal that gets you onto the blood sugar/insulin rollercoaster will keep you on the rollercoaster all day until you fast again - so the quality of your meals (aka not starting your day with sugar bombs) is highly important.

Regardless, “important” is purely an opinion/values statement; the only error is claiming that a sincerely held opinion is an “error”.

Edit: after some recent travel experiences, I found that starting my day with a high quality salad (little dressing, whole fish, variety of vegetables, small portion) was transformative in keeping my blood sugar under control, maintaining stable energy level, and promoting healthy digestion.

Comment by jahnu 13 hours ago

OK fine but it's not really helpful to us reading your comment if you also don't back up your counter claim.

Comment by m12k 12 hours ago

Not my comment but my guess is they might be referring to the research that shows that intermittent fasting has various health benefits. And one of the most popular ways to do intermittent fasting is 16:8 (16 hours where you fast, 8 hours where you eat), typically where you only ever eat from 12 noon until 8 in the evening, and then fast from 8 pm until noon the next day. Under those conditions, breaking the fast with a breakfast means losing out on the health benefits, and you're better off waiting until lunch.

Comment by Cthulhu_ 12 hours ago

But there's other research that, at least when it comes to weight loss, there is no measurable difference between intermittent fasting and reduced calorie intake.

Comment by Angostura 12 hours ago

I think the main point of intermittent fasting is to help with diabetes prevention

Comment by TeMPOraL 11 hours ago

Of all the Internet hype around it, including many threads here, not once I saw anyone actually spelling this out.

Comment by bryanrasmussen 12 hours ago

brunch is the most important meal of the day, I guess.

Comment by 11 hours ago

Comment by soco 11 hours ago

But what about second breakfast?

Comment by Jtarii 13 hours ago

That which can be asserted with no evidence can be dismissed with no evidence.

Comment by danlitt 12 hours ago

but at some point someone should bring some evidence, or the exchange is pointless.

Comment by pasquinelli 12 hours ago

not when the entire conversation has nothing to do with anything.

Comment by kwertyoowiyop 12 hours ago

Welcome to Hacker News?

Comment by Angostura 12 hours ago

No it can’t.

Comment by ZiiS 13 hours ago

It is important to chalange the spread of misinformation even when you don't have time to prove the correct information. If that statement was left unchallenged it would be seen as a tacit endorsment. The amount of effort you have to invest is proving that breakfast dosn't ward off tigers is disproportionate to the benefit.

Comment by pasquinelli 12 hours ago

that makes sense if other people are watching the conversation, paying attention to it, considering everything that's said and using that as the basis for what they believe going forward, but that almost never happens, and certainly never happens here.

Comment by cultofmetatron 13 hours ago

seriosuly underrated comment. I finished a 20 min bike ride and feel clear headed. Havent' consumed anything other than black coffee. Most people are so used to eating continuously and never train their bodies to be metabolically flexible. Doesn't help that the "most important meal of the day" shtick was invented by cereal companies trying to sell us crap dessert masquerading as health food.

Comment by Tade0 12 hours ago

Same routine here. I can ride on that until lunch and I learned this during my (few) years in Italy, because it's normal there.

Also there was a brief moment in my adult life when I had sleep for supper and it was the first time in years when I heard my stomach actually rumbling - I was so used to eating at the first sign of cravings that I forgot how it feels.

Comment by high_na_euv 12 hours ago

Counterpoint:

Ive almost never been eating breakfasts and when I went on delivery diet and started eating them then ive been feeling better tbh

Comment by saaaaaam 12 hours ago

What is delivery diet?

Comment by high_na_euv 12 hours ago

You get delivered e.g 5 meals day before, evening for next day

Healthly food, calculated calories, good stuff in general.

When you are living alone then it is really good option because when I calculated my shopping costs then switching to it wasnt more expensive and im eating way better while saving time

Comment by TeMPOraL 12 hours ago

I'm guessing those Meals in Boxes as a Service you can subscribe to, where they drop a bunch of calorically deficient, bland, starvation-level meal packs at your doorstep in the middle of the night, and you're supposed to survive on them for the next 24 hours.

Comment by high_na_euv 12 hours ago

I wouldnt call them starvation level, after all you select the size/calories

Comment by ssl-3 12 hours ago

[dead]

Comment by tonyedgecombe 12 hours ago

There is some evidence that moving your meals to early in the day is good for you. Breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince, and dinner like a pauper.

Horses for courses though. I know plenty of people who don't eat breakfast but personally I found it much easier to not eat dinner.

Comment by alexfoo 13 hours ago

Comment by finaard 12 hours ago

> Or, maybe, don’t: when people do, they take much more than they eat. Compared with ordering from the menu, all-you-can-eat breakfasts waste more food—up to twice as much, according to one study.

Is that a cultural thing? We have pretty much zero food waste on any buffet as you can easily only take what you actually want to eat. It's just basic good education to be considerate with resources, especially food resources - and I rarely see people taking more than they actually eat, so it's not just an "our family" thing. If you do throw away a lot of foot on a buffet you're just an inconsiderate asshole - and if a restaurant location has significant food waste from that they should just start charging for leftovers.

Comment by bschwindHN 12 hours ago

It's paywalled so I didn't read more than the first paragraph. But maybe the waste comes from overestimation of the amount of food to produce? Even if everyone eats a perfect portion for themselves, if you overestimate the total then you'll have food waste if the food can't be preserved.

Comment by finaard 12 hours ago

> Even if everyone eats a perfect portion for themselves, if you overestimate the total then you'll have food waste if the food can't be preserved.

That'd be just poor planning on part of the hotel/restaurant. It'd be a valid excuse when starting new, but after a few weeks that should be under control.

If you only do breakfast buffets it's a bit harder - but you monitor the situation, and as breakfast time approaches the end you reduce things you can't store or re-use otherwise. Pretty much any hotel I've been to in the last few years had that kind of items run out without restocking them when we had a late breakfast.

If you also do lunch/dinner buffets you have some more options, and can have some dishes reusing the leftovers. I've also seen that regularly - they had the planned dishes, and a few smaller pots with something they came up with to reuse whatever was left over.

Comment by Miraltar 12 hours ago

They make a distinction between plate waste which was served then trashed and total food waste. Plate waste is roughly a third apparently.

Comment by Simulacra 9 hours ago

I think it might be partially cultural, American buffets have a lot of leftover food, and people tend to take a lot of food and throw away a lot of food. There's a variety of reasons why it has to be thrown away, but it is.

Comment by lordgrenville 12 hours ago

I was surprised that this article is about food wasted by people not finishing their plates. Would have guessed that a lot of the unserved food is discarded (sure, some of it can be served at tomorrow's breakfast, but only within limits), and that this is much more significant.

Comment by Miraltar 12 hours ago

Plate waste is roughly a third of total food waste apparently.

Comment by Fizz43 13 hours ago

Toast, eggs, sausages, tomato, mushrooms and most of the other things are dirt cheap. Bacons a bit more expensive but I doubt that ever has any left over.

Comment by citrin_ru 12 hours ago

May be still cheap in the US but in the UK all this almost 2x more expensive than before COVID while salaries nowhere near 2x higher. It's a small fraction of cost of saying in a hotel but not a negligible one.

Comment by Sergey777 12 hours ago

[flagged]

Comment by ssl-3 12 hours ago

This article is dogshit.

The implied problem: People waste too much food at hotel breakfast buffets.

The work: Some people made a model (that itself is devoid of actual hotels, food, and people altogether, as well lacking validation) that let them wiggle some parameters and see if waste changed in that simulation.

The proposed solution: There isn't one. It's just dogshit.

We can learn roughly as much about how consumption and waste and profitability work in the real world by playing Roller Coaster Tycoon.

Comment by opan 12 hours ago

I was reading this thinking "wait, did anyone actually eat food? Is any of this real?", but sounds like we took away something similar. I don't get it. I was thinking even if the buffet were virtual, maybe they could give real people real plates, and a menu, and they'd load up from the virtual buffet, which would actually be people cooking for each order or similar. No signs that they did that, though.

Comment by gib444 13 hours ago

Comment by ggm 13 hours ago

Nudge theory. Applied to my favourite meal of the day. Gaaah. I think I'll simply fill two plates now. Or maybe 3.

Comment by fnordian_slip 13 hours ago

I've long disliked all the "nudge" hype that was prevalent 10 years ago, but what really sent me over the edge was the "if books could kill" podcast episode about it [0]

It's incredible how this stuff even made its way into the Obama administration.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjArvN9cfgE, or on Spotify or Apple podcasts

Comment by streetfighter64 10 hours ago

What? It's a buffet, of course you can eat as much as you want. The point is stopping people from wasting food though. Surely you don't mean you'll fill two plates just out of spite and not eat everything you took?

Honestly I'm very confused why this is even a problem. If people in general had even a modicum of rationality buffets would be the least wasteful way of serving food, compared to fixed-size portions.

Comment by Simulacra 9 hours ago

I've noticed that the cheaper the hotel, the more free things they give you. Such as breakfast buffets.

Rather than a buffet, they could give out a meal ticket. If you want extras, you can pay a small fee for those, meant to cover the cost of the food more than any profit motive. Or is it really more profitable to just throw away the food?

Comment by ssl-3 3 hours ago

> I've noticed that the cheaper the hotel, the more free things they give you. Such as breakfast buffets.

Good. I'm cheap. I'm attracted to freebies. And I like being able to get up, get around to start my day, grab some food on my way out the door, and then get on with whatever it is that to me staying in a hotel to begin with.

I don't want to be at a hotel. That's not my destination; it's a means to an end that is necessary because hygiene and food are necessary even if I have to be away from home.

The buffet is fast. Fast is important to me.

> Rather than a buffet, they could give out a meal ticket. If you want extras, you can pay a small fee for those, meant to cover the cost of the food more than any profit motive.

A meal ticket? Like, for a restaurant with a menu?

The hotels I stay at don't have the facilities to do that. The free breakfast buffets I'm familiar with have stuff that is purchased in bulk, and served in bulk. It's meant to use as little labor as possible at every stage.

> Or is it really more profitable to just throw away the food?

Compared to keeping track of people, and their orders, and delivering that food? Yes, it is more profitable. People don't work for free.

With a meal ticket, when someone orders scrambled eggs or whatever and finds that they don't suit their taste, then they're still throwing them away. Similarly: If they get more food than they can eat? It still goes into the trash.

But now there's a customer service problem, too: When the person who didn't like the eggs is still hungry but their meal ticket is expended, they're going to be complaining about it. That's yet more labor.

Adding this complexity doesn't solve the food waste "problem" (it may actually make it worse), and it adds labor and facilities expense.

It's almost as if these things have all been tried before, and buffets came out on top in profitability.

And since it's a competitive market, customers have options. Fast is important to me so I don't want to wait around for food when there are alternatives that don't require me to do that. I'll just stay at the other cheap place across the road, instead.

It's more profitable for them when I give them my money than it is when I give their competitor my money instead.

(Breakfast buffets didn't appear from thin air. They evolved to be how they are because they're more profitable than other things that were tried before.)

Comment by sam_lowry_ 13 hours ago

Staying in hotels is wasteful, to start with. Buen Camino.

Comment by chr15m 9 hours ago

> computer model

Lol, what a ridiculous study.

Comment by gib444 13 hours ago

If hotels do a virtual buffet and other nonsense I'll just opt out and grab some bits from a local supermarket, which I imagine is what they really would like - to eliminate breakfast entirely.

Just like making room service opt in - they can claim it's available but obviously a lot of people just don't bother because they pick up on the signal from the hotel that they don't want to do it

Personally I've never seen wasteful people at breakfast buffets in the UK. Greedy yes but not plates of unfinished food.

It's also good to remember how much breakfast regularly costs now. £15-20 is quite common at mid range places - £10 of yesteryear is exceedingly rare

Comment by aleph_minus_one 12 hours ago

> It's also good to remember how much breakfast regularly costs now. £15-20 is quite common at mid range places - £10 of yesteryear is exceedingly rare

There exist hotels where breakfast is still very cheap (but the rooms are accordingly more expensive). The reason is that business travelers, the budgets for meals are really tight (you have to pay anything above by yourself), but the maximum allowed costs for hotel rooms are typically much less tight.

To accommodate such business travelers (though these are not the only guests), the hotel makes the breakfast really cheap, but the room accordingly more expensive (but still within the typical budget of business travelers), so that such customers can deduct more travel expenses to the employer.

Comment by moeffju 12 hours ago

They did a "virtual" buffet to model behavior, nobody said anything about hotels "doing a virtual buffet"?

Comment by gib444 4 hours ago

Oh wow I really shouldn't skim articles while nursing a hangover. Consider me told off

Comment by ButlerianJihad 12 hours ago

[flagged]

Comment by ultratalk 11 hours ago

I don't understand how this relates to the article or the discussion.

Comment by csa 2 hours ago

Probably an AI bot farming karma.

Comment by ButlerianJihad 2 hours ago

You’re Absolutely Right!

Comment by Sergey777 12 hours ago

[dead]

Comment by contingencies 13 hours ago

Here's an idea: provide better food. That way people won't want to leave it on the plate.

Comment by gib444 12 hours ago

Right! The only time I leave food is when it's inedible (or the scrambled eggs fooled me again, looking fresh when they're powdered. It's not 1945 so I tend not to eat powdered foods)

Which is unfortunately more common

Comment by streetfighter64 10 hours ago

Doesn't make any sense since most people have eyes and a nose. I've never been so surprised about the quality of the food that I felt inclined to leave it on the plate. But if you're a picky eater and unsure whether you'll like something, perhaps start with a small amount to try it?