Days numbered for 'risky' lithium-ion batteries

Posted by Brajeshwar 3 hours ago

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Comments

Comment by chasil 1 hour ago

Fun fact, sodium metal has also been used to directly make wire. It has some compelling properties.

https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/19/06/08/1827250/the-los...

Comment by audunw 1 hour ago

Feels like the article is overstating the risks of Li-ion. Modern Li-ion battery packs from reputable manufacturers are remarkably safe. An EV with Li-ion is still an order of magnitude safer than an ICE car. Yeah it can take a while for the thermal runaway to dissipate completely.. but it’s not a huge issue. You just have to keep it cool so it doesn’t set fire to other flammable materials (there are inflatable pools firefighter can use to surround the car with water)

Badly made Li-ion packs are a huge risk. But that’s a QA/Certification problem as with anything else (badly made charging bricks are also a risk.. don’t buy them on Temu). There have been CT scans published now showing how big a difference there is in the manufacturing of good and bad cells.

Comment by mbgerring 1 hour ago

Lithium iron phosphate batteries are also safer than lithium ion batteries, and are already in wide production and use.

It’s great if we have more battery chemistries. It would also be great if people would recognize that thermal runaway in lithium batteries is already a solved problem. This would enable updating fire and building regulations, and allow installation of more batteries.

Comment by wolvoleo 3 hours ago

Interesting. It will also cause geopolitical changes because lithium is a rare earth mineral. And Sodium is obviously abundant.

This sounds still very academic though and be aware that these things take time to industrialise. Also sometimes it doesn't pan out in the end.

The fire hazard might be reduced but of course any battery storing so much energy in a small place has some kind of hazard. Hopefully the runaway fire providing its own oxygen is solved here though, this is the main reason it's so hard to put the lithium battery fires out.

Comment by Robotbeat 2 hours ago

Lithium is not a rare earth mineral. Huge pet peeve. This is a technical term. It’s also not particularly rare.

Comment by wolvoleo 2 hours ago

Rate earth minerals aren't necessarily rare, it means that you have to move a huge amount of earth to get a tiny bit of ore. That's still true for lithium and its mining pretty polluting too. And it's limited to specific regions globally.

Our sea is full of sodium however.

Comment by didgeoridoo 2 hours ago

“Rare” as in “rarified”, not “uncommon”.

Comment by dylan604 3 hours ago

Even if the number of days is 10,000+, that's still a number /s

Comment by eimrine 26 minutes ago

Look at where is Li and where is Na on that list. BTW a pure Natrium is also a very aggressive thing.

Comment by Havoc 3 hours ago

Wouldn’t mind not having lithium in my pocket. And in ears for that matter (earbuds)

Comment by nippoo 2 hours ago

By the same ticket, you really also don't want elemental sodium in your ear. Don't let the fact it's commonly found in sodium chloride alongside chlorine (something else you don't want in your pocket!) lull you into a false sense of security.

Sodium is actually more reactive than lithium and explodes on contact with water. There's a few things that make the battery chemistry less likely to undergo thermal runaway, but sodium is not a safe metal...

Comment by euroderf 1 hour ago

> Sodium is actually more reactive than lithium and explodes on contact with water.

Isn't the idea that it quickly dissociates water, and the hydrogen and oxygen bubble up ("explosively"?) and are easily ignited ?

Comment by SigmundA 47 minutes ago

So quickly that the dissociation causes the ignition, this is colloquially called an "explosion" : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UsRiPOFLjk

Comment by CamperBob2 2 hours ago

How does the safety of sodium ion batteries compare to LiFePO4? It's not the presence of lithium that causes the problem, it's the way it's used in traditional lithium-ion cells. I've never heard of a fire being caused by LiFePO4 cells.

Comment by papa0101 3 hours ago

This could potentially open doors for short-haul e-aviation. Very interesting

Comment by dcrazy 2 hours ago

In addition to the article’s stated benefits of faster charging than Li-ion, less temperature sensitivity, and lower propensity of thermal runaway, does switching to sodium also potentially address a raw materials problem? (Imagine if desalination could be made ecologically viable by harvesting the waste sodium for batteries…)

And what’s the downside? More complex chemistry to make the cathode?

Comment by MattGrommes 1 hour ago

They're also heavier, which is a concern for use cases like cars.

There's a good video I just watched that addresses the sodium battery industry and differences with current batteries: https://youtu.be/nrTCgZmUFCY

Comment by Roark66 2 hours ago

The downside is incompatibility with the existing tech (voltage mostly).