US trade deficit widens by the most in nearly 34 years in November

Posted by thomassmith65 4 hours ago

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Comments

Comment by blibble 3 hours ago

as a non-USian, I've been doing my part to increase the US trade deficit with my country

in the last year I've stopped buying any product from american companies if there is another viable supplier, even if it costs more

heinz, coca-cola, five guys, goodyear (I needed new tyres), aws/gcp, lays, mars, ... all removed entirely

Comment by ericmay 2 hours ago

I've been doing the same, but focusing on American-made products first, the more local the better and even if they're 5x as much, and then moving down the line to western products and only reluctantly buying products from adversarial countries.

Supporting local businesses and moving away from globalization, which you also seem to support, is a good move for everyone.

Generally the framework is:

  Buy local/shop at neighborhood businesses preferably selling American-made products or at least western products. When traveling we try to do the same in the country we are located in, but obviously not perfect about it.
  Buy American generally, including online retailers. The smaller and more local the producer the better. Try and identify American companies that are trying to source from good/ethical suppliers like Patagonia, and avoiding Chinese-owned ones (Arteryx RIP).
  Buy western - so that's your silk ties from Italy (something like E.& G. Cappelli), maybe French wine, you get the picture. My tires are Michelin and they are fantastic. I understand that the people on the Internet from Europe are really mad at the US (most folks generally don't care at all) but I'm not holding that against them. Same for Canada of course. 
  Reluctantly purchase computers/phones and such made in China simply because there's no alternative. 
And so forth.

Awful products (Five Guys, Lays chips, &c.) are generally avoided even if they're American. Same applies globally. There's no hard and fast rule here for me, but those are some of the general considerations. OP if you like Five Guys style you should try making at home. A great burger isn't too hard to pull off for MUCH cheaper!

The article seems reactionary. Imports increasing, for example, maybe be due to temporary (or even permanent!) purchases from ex-US suppliers for things like increasing manufacturing capacity here in America. Obviously the effects and reconfiguration of the global economy isn't going to happen overnight.

Mainstream economists have broadly always said that the trade deficit is a good thing for the United States (I can't tell you the number of NPR and Planet Money podcasts with experts I've listened to that have said as much, and also thank you, OP) because it means we're consuming more and receiving more investment and we're trading worthless dollars for the consumption of goods. If you also aligned with the mainstream economics view that tariffs are bad, you'd likely look at an increasing trade deficit with tariffs in place as a very good outcome at least in some respects.

Comment by blibble 2 hours ago

> Mainstream economists have broadly always said that the trade deficit is a good thing for the United States

yes, this is the traditional position

but the underlying assumption is that USD remains the world reserve currency

and there's now an entire western hemisphere no longer interested in maintaining that

Comment by ericmay 2 hours ago

> and there's now an entire western hemisphere no longer interested in maintaining that

Well the USD is one of the world's reserve currencies, not the only one, though of course it's the dominant one. A reserve currency is just a currency that central banks or other significant financial institutions hold "in reserve" for liquidity purposes and so on. Even if the USD was no longer the dominant one, which isn't necessarily great, it hasn't seemed to have been that big of a problem for the EU.

I also don't think there's an entire western hemisphere that is no longer interested in maintain "that". Despite online noise, and a few symbolic selling of treasuries, nothing has really changed. You have to remember that politicians, including EU politicians talk a different game to the public than they do when they're sitting in rooms together at Davos or wherever. There are other considerations. How good for the EU will it be if the US collapses into financial ruin (it won't)? Who is going to backstop their militaries against Russia or other bad actors? The EU can say well we're going to go sell all these treasuries, well they become worth less and less and collapse the global economy. All you hear about on the Internet is the US's dirty laundry. It's the same thing with China and their military and economy. Most people can't speak about their failures because they're not aware, we only talk about the United States (and EU and others of course) and those failures and we don't speak in terms of incentives and actions and reactions.

"China has hypersonic missiles the US Navy is doomed!" is often parroted - yet who can speak intelligently to what the United States has done to negate or address that concern? Very few. Why is that? Well we're all reading the same articles about China's capabilities - it's propaganda.

I also don't see the USD going anywhere, anytime soon since the US military enforces the petrodollar system. But sure let's talk about some Swedish pension fund selling $50bn (7% of Elon Musk's net worth - screw that guy) worth of treasuries and call that the death of the United States economy.

Please don't take this as a defense of objectively bone-headed things the United States is doing either, I'm just pointing out that it's much more complicated than what your comment seems to suggest.

Comment by dragonwriter 1 hour ago

> How good for the EU will it be if the US collapses into financial ruin (it won't)? Who is going to backstop their militaries against Russia or other bad actors?

This would be a bigger concern if the US hasn't, in words, direct action, and inaction shown that it is no longer interested in doing that in any case and is, instead, both joining Russia as a threat to Europe.

Comment by blibble 2 hours ago

> How good for the EU will it be if the US collapses into financial ruin (it won't)?

this isn't the aim

the aim is to decouple enough so you can't be blackmailed

which unfortunately is quite a herculean task, but hey, you've gotta start somewhere

> The EU can say well we're going to go sell all these treasuries, well they become worth less and less and collapse the global economy.

they won't sell them simultaneously, because that would be crazy

but they will change their portfolio allocations over time in response to these new risks made obvious from the hourly yelling out of the white house

which increases US funding costs, decreasing its competitiveness, which is a vicious circle

if it goes on long enough, other trading partners won't want to be paid in dollars at all

Comment by ericmay 2 hours ago

I wouldn't frame EU activity as decoupling from the United States, though the irony of "decoupling" from the US and cozying up to China is super cringe* despite our bombastic and rude American president. *

Instead the EU is engaging in increasingly protectionist activity to build more domestic industry. I don't have a problem with that, but I'm also more on the protectionist side given the current state of global affairs and the need for the US to decouple from China - or is it only the EU that gets to decouple from a major trading partner and the US isn't allowed? At least that's what is parroted on the Internet. :)

* Just a quick note, there's a lot of uproar on the Internet over Greenland. Deservedly. But if the EU "decouples" from the US, there's no incentive for the US to not, for example, take over Greenland. These are the kinds of push-pull engagements that are continually failed to take into account by most commentaries and in most discussions. Again it's centered around what the EU will do, or what China will do, and so forth and the analysis never makes it past this, despite the most important activities happening downstream from initial activities.

* I'm an Ukraine hawk - US should have went straight to war with Russia over the invasion - being overly simplistic here but just to illustrate my hawkish-ness. But the EU is sitting here telling us it's this huge problem that Russia is invading Ukraine, yet they're happy to increase cooperation and trading with China who is providing support to Russia for their invasion? Of course, these things are all part of a negotiating mix. Maybe increasing trade will help China stop helping Russia's war against Ukraine, but if we wanted to stop analysis at the very first thing we see as everyone seems to want to do with respect to the EU or China, we could just look at that activity and say, well, maybe we shouldn't help the EU here and if they really think Ukraine is a problem they should take these other actions instead, whatever they may be.

Comment by blibble 2 hours ago

> Instead the EU is engaging in increasingly protectionist activity to build more domestic industry.

yes, this is why it was created, it's why it exists!

I have absolutely no problem with the US deciding to re-balance its economy using tariffs, that is its sovereign right

but I have a problem with it using them as a tool of coercion against its "allies" to achieve foreign policy objectives

and not to mention the direct threats of annexation

> But if the EU "decouples" from the US, there's no incentive for the US to not, for example, take over Greenland.

if you assume the decoupling has completed, then the rest of the west would by definition be capable of defending itself without being subject to coercion/blackmail

(there's also the the two nuclear powers treaty bound to defend it)

Comment by palata 1 hour ago

> But if the EU "decouples" from the US, there's no incentive for the US to not, for example, take over Greenland.

You're saying "I had sex with my best friend's wife and now he doesn't want to see me anymore. This is stupid: if he doesn't want to be my friend, then there is no incentive for me to not have sex with his wife. He should still be my friend".

If you go like this in real life, I wonder how many friends you have :-).

Comment by ericmay 1 hour ago

I don't think that's a good analogy.

But if you want to stick with it, in this scenario the situation would be you aren't friends, and don't intend to be because you both made each other really mad, and by having sex with the wife she gives you a lot of good stuff that you want and you're not really concerned with your former friend's feelings.

Comment by palata 3 minutes ago

> in this scenario the situation would be you aren't friends

You think that the Europeans bought defense systems that depend on the US without thinking they were allies?

Comment by dragonwriter 1 hour ago

> But if the EU "decouples" from the US, there's no incentive for the US to not, for example, take over Greenland.

I dunno, I think Denmark and its remaining allies, including at least two nuclear weapons states, might be able to provide some incentive for the US not to take over Greenland.

> But the EU is sitting here telling us it's this huge problem that Russia is invading Ukraine, yet they're happy to increase cooperation and trading with China who is providing support to Russia for their invasion?

No, they aren't happy being backed into that by the open threat of US aggression. They weren't too happy having to ally with the USSR against the Nazis, either, but, you sometimes you have to deal with the overwhelming immediate problem, first.

> Maybe increasing trade will help China stop helping Russia's war against Ukraine

Its not Russia’s aggression in Ukraine that the shift toward China is aimed at.

> we could just look at that activity and say, well, maybe we shouldn't help the EU here and if they really think Ukraine is a problem they should take these other actions instead, whatever they may be.

We aren't helping the EU, we are threatening an EU and NATO state (and another NATO state, and consequently an ally of many EU states) with invasion. That’s literally the source of the shift you are complaining about. Trying to use the response to justify the action it responds to is...mind-boggling mental gymnastics.

Comment by ericmay 1 hour ago

> I dunno, I think Denmark and its remaining allies, including at least two nuclear weapons states, might be able to provide some incentive for the US not to take over Greenland.

If there really was just a, damn the alliance we want Greenland approach - and there's not, the EU including its nuclear armed states would not be able to do a single thing about it. Let's not be delusional. There is absolutely no debating this.

> No, they aren't happy being backed into that by the open threat of US aggression. They weren't too happy having to ally with the USSR against the Nazis, either, but, you sometimes you have to deal with the overwhelming immediate problem, first.

To be clear, are you suggesting the United States in general is the "immediate problem" and not Russia's invasion of Ukraine? I just want to make sure I understand your point of view here very clearly before I respond and want to give you that opportunity.

> Its not Russia’s aggression in Ukraine that the shift toward China is aimed at.

Ok, but as long as you acknowledge that China is assisting Russia in the invasion of Ukraine and further trading with China only furthers that war and Russia's aims.

> We aren't helping the EU, we are threatening an EU and NATO state (and another NATO state, and consequently an ally of many EU states) with invasion. That’s literally the source of the shift you are complaining about. Trying to use the response to justify the action it responds to is...mind-boggling mental gymnastics.

The source of the shift didn't start there, nor will it really end there. But we are helping the EU immensely even when we're having a conflict about somewhere else. You can't make the claim that the EU gets to do this with respect to China but the US doesn't get to do it with the EU.

Comment by dragonwriter 1 hour ago

> To be clear, are you suggesting the United States in general is the "immediate problem" and not Russia's invasion of Ukraine?

No, I am suggesting that the United States, not China, poses the more immediate, direct threat to EU states and their treaty allies. Both the China and, under Trump, the US are also contributing to the problem of the Russian war in Ukraine, but that's not the comparison point.

Comment by ericmay 58 minutes ago

Thanks for the clarification. Yes I unconditionally disagree with that assessment.

> the US are also contributing to the problem of the Russian war in Ukraine

This is factually incorrect.

Comment by 2 hours ago

Comment by Insanity 3 hours ago

Looking at what you’re cutting, you might also be living healthier too!

Although these food products are often regionalized.

Comment by blibble 3 hours ago

yes it seems to be win win, like just completely giving up soft drinks

I hadn't realised quite how many "UK" brands were owned by US conglomerates

a scarily high percentage

Comment by seanmcdirmid 2 hours ago

Are you just swearing off American brands (I'm sure those products aren't made in the USA besides AWS), or is it about swearing off American goods like flying in 737s? Obviously, you haven't sworn off HN, which I believe is American made, but I guess that's a niche edge case.

Comment by blibble 1 hour ago

I don't think you could have paid me to go on a boeing airliner even before recent political events

Comment by seanmcdirmid 57 minutes ago

Ryanair is a hard airline to fly on, I guess, I don't blame you.

Comment by DataDive 3 hours ago

None of these products would be made in the US, though ... and none would affect trade imbalance ... so the net effect might only be to increase inefficiency in your own country

Comment by blibble 3 hours ago

how much do you think of my £1 can of coke stays in the UK?

maybe a quarter?

the rest will be a "licensing fee", which goes straight to Atlanta, Georgia

(well, now it doesn't)

Comment by dylan604 3 hours ago

Are cans of coke only £1? The dollar is really weaker than I thought

Comment by nebula8804 2 hours ago

Its just sugar water.

Comment by dylan604 47 minutes ago

What if it's Coke Zero?

Comment by armchairhacker 2 hours ago

But GP is boycotting big corporations, and presumably replacing them with local businesses. Unlikely any US small businesses because they don’t advertise internationally (and usually don’t ship). In this case, two wrongs make a right: he’s helping his nation’s smaller businesses and not hurting those from the US.

Comment by whynotmaybe 3 hours ago

How would investing in locally produced stuff increase inefficiency ?

Comment by Arnt 3 hours ago

If you pay someone 3x for work/service/product, x is the price and 2x is what you pay to encourage them to make/do the things instead of the people who could/would do it for x.

However, you're not paying 3x. I assume you're not really paying anything notably higher than x, right? So the encouragement is nearly zero.

Comment by janderson215 3 hours ago

Lack of scale or expertise (competitive advantage).

Comment by lenerdenator 1 hour ago

if only you lot had done the same with Russian natural gas.

Comment by mothballed 3 hours ago

OK so you import less American stuff. While still wanting to export the stuff you made to America.

So now you're tied up to Trump even more than before. Because you either traded your goods for US investments, or just pieces of paper that only continue to be worth something insofar as the US doesn't bungle their economic and geopolitical policies. Because those are the primary alternatives to settling the trade by getting goods/services back.

Why wouldn't you want to cash out and actually get stuff back from the US for the stuff you make for them, if you think the US is headed south? It's not like you're exporting to the US as a charity.

Comment by blibble 3 hours ago

after the threats of invasion: as far as I'm concerned the relationship is dead

to hell with the economic consequences

as a brit, I wouldn't be buying German products in 1939 either

Comment by stickfigure 2 hours ago

To be fair, this is more like 1932.

Comment by 2 hours ago

Comment by palata 1 hour ago

The US is acting irrational. It causes a bunch of reactions, one of them being downright fear (because of e.g. a military threat, but not only).

And then you seem surprised that those reactions are not always rational? How does that work?

Comment by watwut 2 hours ago

This makes zero sense.

Comment by mothballed 2 hours ago

How does it not make sense? When you export things to other countries you expect something back in return of equal value, unless you're just doing it for charity. On a world stage the US imports more than it exports.

Obviously all the countries not choosing to settle it by balancing the imports with equally valued exports are still not just donating that difference away, so it must be going somewhere.

What did you think that must be? The only option is they must have kept that capital in the US if they didn't export the balance of their trade back out. Kept it in the US because for whatever reason they decided to invest it there rather than get goods/services in immediate exchange or invest in their own country. By increasing the trade deficit you're literally going stronger in on investing in what America is doing.

Comment by grim_io 2 hours ago

Doesn't your argument reveal the irrationality of the administrations’ tariff policy?

Yes, countries do not export goods as charity to the US. They get to hodl the Dollar. This huge demand for the Dollar has made it possible to print so many of them and still keep the value, giving the US a big advantage over any other currency.

But who is responsible for the trade deficit anyway? It's the US consumer, of course. No one is forcing them to buy all this stuff.

Now imagine yourself in the shoes of a poor country exporting textiles to the US. What are you to do to make the US administration happy? You can't afford American products, so your only choice is to stop selling to the US? How does that make any sense or help anyone?

Comment by direwolf20 1 hour ago

mothballed's comment was probably flagged because they used the R slur

Comment by 2 hours ago

Comment by 3 hours ago

Comment by slibhb 3 hours ago

[flagged]

Comment by piva00 3 hours ago

So enlighthen them instead of going the route of snarky quips, make it more interesting if you feel they are that illiterate :)

Comment by nozzlegear 3 hours ago

[flagged]

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Comment by dfxm12 2 hours ago

I don't understand. What's the troll here? Are you offended? Why?

Comment by nozzlegear 1 hour ago

[flagged]

Comment by JKCalhoun 1 hour ago

I always thought "American" was kind of fucked up seeing as there are plenty of other countries in the "Americas".

Comment by nozzlegear 51 minutes ago

Makes sense, South African must sound similarly fucked up to you.

Comment by TimorousBestie 3 hours ago

The typical demonym is inaccurate.

It is more or less “USian” in some other languages, and no one raises an eyebrow. 美国人, 米国人, etc.

Comment by khuey 2 hours ago

> It is more or less “USian” in some other languages, and no one raises an eyebrow. 美国人, 米国人, etc.

Given that both of those examples come from phonetics for America I don't think that proves what you think it does. It's not 合众国人 ...

Comment by 28 minutes ago

Comment by Macha 1 hour ago

アメリカ人 is significantly more common than 米国人

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Comment by sfmike 3 hours ago

whats a rice country person?

Comment by khuey 2 hours ago

"American" in Japanese

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Comment by ajross 2 hours ago

I'm of that opinion too. The framing behind the gag is wrong anyway. Americans call ourselves "Americans" because we were the American colonies of Great Britain. That is: "Are you English? No, I'm American". It's an adjective, and a properly constructed one. And when they named the country it was the United States OF America, states in America that were united in a single government.

The attempt to gin up outrage that somehow there was ever an attempt to appropriate the name of the whole continent "for ourselves" is just fake. That's not ever what the terms meant.

There's plenty to complain about regarding American ego and hubris, but this isn't right.

Basically you're 100% right. This is trolling, and people should stop.

Comment by lostlogin 2 hours ago

If it’s a troll, that some ultra weak works. A mildly funny name change maybe?

Comment by ajross 2 hours ago

Isn't a troll definitionally just a plausibly-innocent statement that is "mildy funny" to some but offensive to others?

It's just not good faith discussion to rename someone else's nationality or identity as a joke. You wouldn't like it either.

Comment by xnx 2 hours ago

How could this article not include a chart? How does trade deficit differ from https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/BOPGSTB ?

Comment by JKCalhoun 1 hour ago

Wow, it's skyrocketing. It looks like it started to take off right after Trump's tariff announcement. Was that in March?

(Markets are not happy right now either, but that's likely for some other reason, and will no doubt rebound suddenly because alwaysgoesup.)

Comment by m-hodges 3 hours ago

The Trump White House literally cited the trade deficit as a "national emergency" in April 2025 to justify its actions on tariffs.¹

> I, DONALD J. TRUMP, President of the United States of America, find that underlying conditions, including a lack of reciprocity in our bilateral trade relationships, disparate tariff rates and non-tariff barriers, and U.S. trading partners’ economic policies that suppress domestic wages and consumption, as indicated by large and persistent annual U.S. goods trade deficits, constitute an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and economy of the United States. That threat has its source in whole or substantial part outside the United States in the domestic economic policies of key trading partners and structural imbalances in the global trading system. I hereby declare a national emergency with respect to this threat.

Does not seem they've addressed their self-imposed "national emergency".

¹ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/04/regu...

Comment by TrainedMonkey 2 hours ago

If I was cynical I would assume that manufacturing emergencies was the whole point.

Comment by dfedbeef 2 hours ago

You don't have to be cynical to recognize someone else being cynical. When your legal system carved out a bunch of loopholes for emergency powers.... Suddenly everything is an emergency.

Comment by 2 hours ago

Comment by mekdoonggi 2 hours ago

Surely if we say we'll quadruple tariffs in two months and then walk it back in a month, the situation will improve?

Comment by mothballed 3 hours ago

Trade deficit is a good thing. It means foreigners are keeping capital in the US as investment on their trades rather than exporting it out to balance it out.

Comment by direwolf20 1 hour ago

It means the US received a lot of goods and services without any need to actually make them or make something of equal value.

Comment by cyrialize 2 hours ago

Another way to frame trade deficit (sometimes) is using the phrase "investment surplus".

Many top economies have trade deficits. China is a unique example that goes against that, although I believe China is trying to have their population spend more rather than save.

Comment by lokar 3 hours ago

while that is true, there is more to it than that. It distorts US finances and debt market. It is helpful to the US, until at some point it will cause major problems, it's just hard to say exactly when.

Comment by davey48016 3 hours ago

My understanding is that while politicians generally focus on trade deficits being the result of unfair trade practices or high US labor costs, the majority of economists think that foreigners preference to invest in US financial markets is the main driver.

Comment by scottiebarnes 3 hours ago

Generally I'd rather be in a trade surplus; I would want my country to sell more things than it buys. Energy, technology, machinery, services, whatever it is, if I'm selling, it means I have productive capability/advantage over others and thus more independence.

Comment by direwolf20 1 hour ago

If you have a deficit, you have free stuff. If you have a surplus, you have the ability to produce stuff, but you're throwing away the stuff you produce. The ideal value is probably zero — perfect balance, as all things should be.

Comment by mrexcess 2 hours ago

"Actually, it's good when a country imports more than it exports."

This claim seems like it warrants at least some qualifying statements. Certainly you'd acknowledge where there are situations in which a trade imbalance is a net negative?

Comment by WarmWash 3 hours ago

High chance this report motivates Trump to do something extra heavy handed.

Comment by JKCalhoun 1 hour ago

I would guess go 180 on tariffs like he did the last time when the market took a nosedive reacting to his tariffs.

Comment by chneu 2 hours ago

Like release the Epstein files? Lol

Comment by actionfromafar 4 hours ago

Impossible to foresee. The transition from putting together advanced things from imported goods, into a textile and coal economy, was supposed to go much faster!

The only solution is to swap out leadership of Atlanta FED. That way, we can have more positive reports.

Comment by delaminator 4 hours ago

Jan - US trade deficit sinks as tariffs take a bite.

Jan - October Trade Deficit Declines on Higher Exports, Lower Imports

Nov - US trade deficit widens by the most in nearly 34 years in November

Comment by daxfohl 2 hours ago

Saw that too. It says the October blip was due to a one-time movement of gold. (IDK what that implies economically, just pointing it out).

Comment by wrs 3 hours ago

Gee, I thought the tariffs were supposed to take care of this. Isn’t that why they were calculated based on the trade deficit? /s

Comment by grim_io 2 hours ago

They should do a recalculation with a more SOTA model. It's been a while.

Comment by JKCalhoun 1 hour ago

Maybe it takes a generation or so…

Comment by franktankbank 1 hour ago

Why wouldn't it?

Comment by nine_zeros 3 hours ago

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