UK Government’s ‘AI Skills Hub’ was delivered by PwC for £4.1M
Posted by JustSkyfall 22 hours ago
Comments
Comment by marcus_holmes 21 hours ago
Businesses that do meet these criteria charge like wounded bulls. In part because they know that all the other businesses that the govt could turn to will also charge like wounded bulls.
Comment by woooooo 17 hours ago
I once knew someone who had to solicit 3 bids and document them to buy a $500 camera for local government. They weren't thinking "I am useless and craven", they were thinking "this is silly but I have to do it".
Comment by Foobar8568 16 hours ago
I was against it, but "you know, if they don't do it, they no longer give a warranty on the solution", type of bullshit. Yeah 60md of warranty? My client are a bunch of fools.
Like ONG, bribes and extracting public money is the first target.
Comment by SomeUserName432 14 hours ago
Comment by nick49488171 16 hours ago
Comment by woooooo 15 hours ago
The point is, the person wasn't trying to hedge against looking bad, they literally had to do and document this.
Comment by disgruntledphd2 11 hours ago
Also, governments are large bureaucracies, with all the process that entails. And because there's no real benefit for them in delivering quicker, but lots of risk in delivering badly, this sort of stuff happens.
Comment by wongarsu 16 hours ago
Procurement for such small items can be quick and sane. It's the larger items where rules tighten and procurement portals or bidding become mandated that are problematic
Comment by clort 13 hours ago
So loosely I purchase items at my work from a budget that I am allocated in an organisation that is ultimately responsible to the UK government. I need to justify that the items I am ordering are reasonably priced, and the organisation would really really like to have the goods before any money goes out. That means they want to place an order, receive the goods and and invoice, and then pay the invoice. Many online shops don't want to deal with that. We have accounts set up with many companies, but not all. If I want to buy some reams of 160gsm A4 white card (for example, the other day), that whole process is going to take at least 10 minutes. Some of our suppliers don't sell exactly that. Is 240gsm ok? I've got to go back to the person who wants it (no btw, I had to go find some and take it to them for comparison). More esoteric items are going to take longer. What exactly do I want to order?
So yeah, procurement is simple when you are at home with an amazon account. The items will be here tomorrow!
edit: oh, I didn't mention the free delivery.. a box of white card doesn't get me free delivery. Is there something else I can add onto that? Ok, the order will have to wait..
Comment by derangedHorse 9 hours ago
Unfortunately it sounds like the process is misaligned with the intention. I doubt this mechanism actually works for efficient budgeting and even when it appears to work, it’s probably at the cost of standard quality.
Comment by deaux 18 hours ago
This is an absurd statement that might as well come straight out of Yes Minister. Buying from PWC reflects badly on them already, let alone when their next scandal happens. Which is of course never far away [0].
I'm sure Fujitsu met similar "criteria" when selected for Horizon. How well that selection reflected on the procurement office..
Comment by marcus_holmes 13 hours ago
Buying from PWC reflects badly on them with us, because we know tech. It does not reflect badly with other civil servants, because PWC is a highly-respected organisation.
It's very similar to "No-one got fired for buying from IBM", which was a cliche because it was true.
Comment by gerdesj 20 hours ago
Strictly speaking its ISO 9001 but we do the same as you and call it ISO 9000. You forgot 27001 and 14001.
Comment by marcus_holmes 13 hours ago
I've seen it happen time and again with startups, though. They have a great idea, perfect for a large business to use. They get a project manager or department manager excited about it, they even run a PoC successfully. And then they slap headfirst into the Procurement Wall and the whole project grinds to a halt. Three years between project approval and issuing a purchase order. And then 90 days between invoice and payment. Startups go bust waiting for these cogs to turn.
Comment by Foobar8568 16 hours ago
Comment by boznz 17 hours ago
Comment by marcus_holmes 13 hours ago
Quoted for truth. Well said.
Comment by wasmainiac 13 hours ago
Why accept the status que? How many working lives of tax revenue did this bs consume?
Comment by marcus_holmes 12 hours ago
One of the many, many, arguments for not allowing organisations to get this big.
Comment by wasmainiac 12 hours ago
Still it does not need to be this way. Large organisations used to actually get s** done generally in budget and on time. Now we can’t even do a simple tasks without mountains of paper work and cash. I know, my partner used to work in a related industry, it’s painful to hear their stories.
Comment by rikroots 9 hours ago
Follow the processes. Document everything. Make certain the winning bidder has all the relevant certificates and insurance covers in place before agreeing to anything.
Leaving the Civil Service was one of the best work decisions I ever took.
Comment by azornathogron 11 hours ago
> If there's any, even the slightest, chance that buying from a business might one day reflect badly on the civil servant in the procurement office, then they won't buy from that business.
You don't think that spending £4.1 million on this garbage might reflect badly on someone?
Comment by OkayPhysicist 20 hours ago
Step 1: Come up with an incredibly easy to meet standard (because you don't want anybody abandoning the process because it's too much of a hassle) that sounds like a reasonable requirement on paper (to make it easy to pitch as a basic requirement of doing business). Say, "Have a plan for the things you do".
Step 2: Add one additional requirement to your standard: "Prioritize Vendors that meet this standard".
Step 3: Obscure the hell out of the standard, (to not make the grift too obvious) and stick it behind a paywall.
Step 4: Franchise out the (nigh-impossible to fail) "approval" process to 3rd parties, who pay you for the privilege.
Step 5: Your first few "standardized" companies put pressure on their vendors and customers to get certified, so they hire consultants, who in turn pay you, who tell them "Good job, you meet the standard. But do your vendors?".
Step 6: Watch as the cash floods in.
(Optional, Step 7): Once a bunch of major companies are certified, target governments to do your marketing push for you.
Comment by pjmlp 13 hours ago
Want to use enterprise product XYZ?
Need to have at least X amount of certified employees to reach the basic layer, additional certifications for the next layers.
The kind of support tickets, documentation and trainings available depend on the certification levels, and by the way they have to be renewed every couple of years.
However it is how the ball rolls in certain industries, and rebeling against it won't win anything, better switch jobs for those anti-certifications.
Comment by hluska 19 hours ago
Where does all this talk of standards come from?
Comment by marcus_holmes 12 hours ago
> IV.1.8) Information about the Government Procurement Agreement (GPA) The procurement is covered by the Government Procurement Agreement: Yes
Googling the UK Government Procurement Agreement got me to:
> https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/government-standar...
which was when I realised this was a rabbit hole and while I am positive that somewhere deep in that rabbit hole would be a requirement for all procurement suppliers to meet ISO9000 or similar, I was going to have to spend hours finding it. Hours I don't have.
You can cheerfully dismiss this opinion if you like, I don't have the data to provide you evidence.
But I also think this proves my point; if you have to spend hours just finding out what the requirements are, you probably don't meet them.
Comment by duckmysick 9 hours ago
> Quality Plans
> 6.1 The Supplier shall develop, within [insert number] Working Days of the Effective Date, quality plans that ensure that all aspects of the Services are the subject of quality management systems and are consistent with BS EN ISO 9001 or any equivalent standard which is generally recognised as having replaced it ("Quality Plans").
The Short Form Contract also have optional ISO 27001 or Cyber Essentials (which is, uh, an adventure on its own). But there's also an option for no certification required. It depends on the contract.
But yes, you're right. Dealing with requirements takes time and experience and you likely need a dedicated person (or team) to deal with it.
Comment by Aeolun 18 hours ago
Comment by hkt 17 hours ago
Comment by lwhi 13 hours ago
Comment by gerdesj 20 hours ago
I have been an MD for 25 years. ISO 9001 reg. since 2006. Its been a bit of a pain at times but it does concentrate the mind towards doing things right. We've never used consultants, we've always just read and followed the standards.
What is your experience?
PS During our last assessment, the assessor described a few recent AI written efforts they had come across. Laughable.
PPS I've been doing this for over 25 years and I think that a quality based approach to running a company is a good idea ... you?
Comment by Supermancho 18 hours ago
Ever tried to write a quality based document describing how to create an air filled, japanese oragami balloon? (step 3 is the first big hurdle, https://www.wikihow.com/Make-an-Origami-Balloon). That was his goto starter for ISO classes.
> I've been doing this for over 25 years and I think that a quality based approach to running a company is a good idea ... you?
ISO standards don't ensure this, since certification is only based on verifying documentation format. What the ISO processes do tend to do is create a small memo indicating that every dept should justify the work they are doing by writing it down and showing it to their boss. What that does to an organization is to produce a crapload of near-useless documentation and throw a large number of people into political hell. After that, the solution is always the same. They quickly move from everyone trying to coordinate down to a very small number of people (1-3) taking charge of moving dept to dept. Either the agents or the supervisors who are articulate enough to gloss over inconsistencies and gaps to form a coherent story, write the documentation.
While this may lend well to shoring up some companies' internals, in the early 2000s, ISO certification consultancy was a lucrative gig. It was chased as a stamp to markup pricing, rather than a quality tool.
Comment by tverbeure 17 hours ago
Comment by napaparts 15 hours ago
Comment by dizzy9 21 hours ago
Comment by michaelt 21 hours ago
> Labour taking free staff from scandal-hit consulting firms
> [...] The party has quietly accepted more than £230,000 worth of free staff from ‘big four’ accounting firms PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) and Ernst & Young (EY) since Keir Starmer took over as leader in 2020.
Still, I'm sure it's a complete coincidence that the ruling party was gifted £230k of free services from PwC, then brought a static website from PwC for £4.1 million of taxpayer money.
Comment by TheOtherHobbes 19 hours ago
Comment by plagiarist 19 hours ago
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Comment by aaronbrethorst 14 hours ago
Comment by defrost 13 hours ago
"If the wind changes, you'll get stuck that way."
Comment by aaronbrethorst 13 hours ago
Comment by defrost 13 hours ago
All the same, you can have a long successful careeer, but you say nice things about Nigel the one time and forever after they'll call you a goat f*r and throw milkshakes on you :/
Comment by aaronbrethorst 5 hours ago
Comment by defrost 26 minutes ago
How did you read mine then?
Comment by boznz 17 hours ago
Comment by canadiantim 15 hours ago
Comment by kingstnap 7 hours ago
Comment by jaccola 20 hours ago
One of the given reasons is because Burnham is currently mayor of Greater Manchester, and running a new election there would cost approx £4m(!!) which is a huge waste of taxpayer money.
I was surprised that they even gave this as a faux reason since it seems like the sort of money they would spend on replenishing the water coolers, or buying bic pens, or... building a static website!
Comment by mellosouls 19 hours ago
eg.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/jun/28/labour-debt-peter...
https://doctorsforthenhs.org.uk/the-truth-about-the-lies-tha...
etc
Comment by lwhi 13 hours ago
The fact that a huge amount of money is extracted from the UK government for no (or very little value) is a crying shame.
I know multiple people who work as consultants (hired via private agencies, paid for by Government) who have literally done nothing for six months plus.
They have no incentive to whistleblow, the agency employing them has no incentive to get rid of them as they take a cut, and then government department hiring them is non-the-wiser because they have no technical knowledge or understanding of what's being carried out.
It should be the scandal of the decade.
Comment by FridayoLeary 20 hours ago
Why can't he just do both jobs? Boris did it iirc.
Comment by hkt 16 hours ago
It is fairly innately political. No Prime Minister has ever polled as low as Starmer and come back from it, or so is being said in the press. Burnham might be a smart electoral move, but he's not a plaything of the Labour right, so they kept him out.
Comment by owisd 15 hours ago
Comment by petesergeant 14 hours ago
For our American brethren, it's like the difference between being the Mayor of NYC vs the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade King.
Comment by roryirvine 11 hours ago
There's not much actual difference in the mayoral aspect of the roles - Jarvis was the Mayor of the South Yorkshire Combined Authority, not simply the mayor of Sheffield City Council.
Comment by thinkingemote 12 hours ago
https://www.find-tender.service.gov.uk/Notice/001337-2025?or...
Comment by roryirvine 11 hours ago
Comment by wackget 17 hours ago
I have worked with many "big agency" developers and can tell you categorically that they are more often than not absolutely terrible at their jobs.
Comment by adi_kurian 20 hours ago
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Comment by matthewcford 6 hours ago
I've heard of large SIs charging millions for discovery work, only for the report to say the budget is not enough to build the project.
Never mind the standards orgs tendering needs to meet (ISO 27001, Cyber Essentials Plus). It's not for the faint-hearted.
Comment by webdev1234568 22 hours ago
Scammers are winners.
Comment by ctippett 21 hours ago
Comment by ebbi 20 hours ago
It's frustrating, because these larger firms most always churn out subpar work and this mindset just keeps funding it so they don't improve.
Comment by krapht 19 hours ago
Comment by cmcaleer 18 hours ago
I agree a good solution isn't easy to come up with, but the status quo is certainly an outrageously awful one.
Comment by lmm 16 hours ago
Comment by deaux 18 hours ago
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Comment by thoughtpeddler 11 hours ago
Comment by layman51 21 hours ago
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Comment by whalesalad 19 hours ago
Comment by hluska 19 hours ago
Comment by edoceo 22 hours ago
There is this thing that happens in USA where RFPs are issued in such a way only one vendor could pass the mark - does that happen in UK? Reckon PwC has connections to make that happen
Comment by tengwar2 21 hours ago
(+ Some of the detail of the scoring matrix is not as transparent as we would like, but Innovate UK does take feedback and tries to improve it).
Comment by AliClarkDevyce 9 hours ago
Comment by tengwar2 7 hours ago
Comment by maccard 21 hours ago
The tender is here [0], the approval process is usually pretty watertight. The contracts that go through this will have a paper trail. What you’ll likely find is that PWC has written a spec that meets the letter of the contract and they have delivered a site that meets the letter of their wording, which is what they’re good at. The fact that it didn’t actually solve the problem is inconsequential to PwC
[0] https://www.find-tender.service.gov.uk/Notice/021898-2024
Comment by londons_explore 21 hours ago
You are mistaken. The fact it does not solve the problem is good for business, because follow up contracts to resolve any shortcomings will most likely also be awarded to PwC, since they are the only bidder to already have the in house expertise on this bespoke site...
Comment by maccard 6 hours ago
I think at that point, they just don't care.
Comment by edoceo 20 hours ago
Comment by ryanm101 15 hours ago
Some of it is
Comment by hkt 16 hours ago
https://github.com/ministryofjustice
I don't know of a department that does it as well as MoJ, though. Caveats exist around old private sector implemented systems like the prisons and probation databases etc, which even MoJ itself doesn't own the IP for. But everything made by civil servants or contractors at MoJ ends up published in that org unless there's a good reason not to.
Edit: FOI in principle allows you to request a cut of a git repo etc for a service, so you can impose annoyance upon departments that are less open.
Comment by pbhjpbhj 20 hours ago
£120k, double it for stupid amounts of testing, double it again for managers to tell the people doing the work "do the work". We're still only at £500k.
Gov.uk web team are supposed to be award winning. Why are we picking shitty slop-corps to do this work?
Comment by stuaxo 19 hours ago
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Comment by eranation 21 hours ago
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HealthCare.gov#:~:text=estimat...
Comment by mtoner23 20 hours ago
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Comment by Oras 21 hours ago
and that's before knowing about the £4M
Comment by cmcaleer 18 hours ago
But I guess donating another £4MM to PwC is more sensible.
Comment by __coder__ 14 hours ago
Comment by haritha-j 11 hours ago
Comment by cs02rm0 15 hours ago
I know this is just the author deflecting the clichéd argument, but I hate that argument. The pennies do matter, otherwise the argument is made ad infinitum and you end up with a financially inept government running up a £200bn deficit.
These small websites should never be awarded to the mega-consultancies. Even if you paid the full £4m to a small webdev shop who'd feel like they'd hit the lottery I bet we'd get a better result and do more for the economy.
Comment by aquir 13 hours ago
Comment by enceladus06 21 hours ago
Comment by gerdesj 21 hours ago
I started off from the press release on GOV.UK (as linked in OP and which is a paragon of virtue in web design) and followed the "Free AI foundations training" link and it all went south rather rapidly.
Its bold, brash and horrible. It does look like a set of links and its not immediately obvious where you start or what to do with it.
There are a few things that might be hyperlinks but the large weird rounded cornered sort of press me perhaps if you dare but I'm a bit flat and might kick your dog thing that might be a control or not but I'm purple and have an arrow ... ooh go on ... click me. Clicking around that area does move on to the next step which is just as obtuse.
I do hope that clears things up!
Comment by subscribed 9 hours ago
Comment by StopDisinfo910 13 hours ago
Just the development would be expensive but if they also worked on scoping and framing the platform, aligning multiple stakeholders (yes, even just linking outside courses mean you might have to interact with other parts of government or providers) and defining the long term vision and plan, it can get expensive pretty quickly.
Doing anything with the government is a pain. It's even worse than working in a large company. You get paid very late. You have annoying contractual provisions. It makes everything very expensive.
Comment by roryirvine 11 hours ago
Not so much of the "long term vision and plan", but plenty of aligning stakeholders, as well as discovering, researching, and managing third party resources - and then there's the requirement to run the service for a further 18 months.
£4m is enough to pay for about 15 consultants for 18 months at typical rates paid by the public sector. But since this is a standalone project, call it a dozen plus overheads. That feels roughly right as a finger-in-the-air estimate for a project of that sort of scope.
Comment by navigate8310 20 hours ago
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Comment by andy_ppp 21 hours ago
A reminder the UKs Test and Trace apparently cost £29.3 billion of the £37bn allocated. Disgusting waste of money.
But at least Keir and the government will have cushy jobs to go to after they leave government.
Comment by whenc 21 hours ago
https://fullfact.org/health/NHS-test-and-trace-app-37-billio...
"The NAO said that of the approximately £13.5 billion spent on the NHS Test and Trace programme in 2020/21, £35 million was spent on the app.
The vast majority of the spending in that year was accounted for by testing (£10.4 billion)."
Comment by andy_ppp 21 hours ago
I still think this is far higher than comparable countries and seems like a rip off. Any of the figures are extremely wasteful IMO. I wasn’t trying to suggest the app cost billions.
Test and trace is just the name of the UK programme (as used by fullfact and the NAO) so I’m not sure why you’re attempting to correct me on the naming.
Comment by whenc 20 hours ago
Comment by seemaze 19 hours ago
Feels so timely. May we all aspire to such a simple goal.
Comment by lifestyleguru 16 hours ago
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Comment by testing22321 20 hours ago
Fun project to be on. We played “descope” bingo… but everyone won all the time.
Comment by DANmode 13 hours ago
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Comment by jaimex2 20 hours ago
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-11-23/bureau-of-meteorology...
Comment by pfych 20 hours ago
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Comment by jalapenos 11 hours ago
All other discussion is just noise.
If you accept the idea that it's OK for the state to spend 50% of the economy, on things for you or your various self-congratulatory moral-high-horse programs, this is actually where the money will get pissed away to.
It's all carefully avoiding noticing that socialism is theft because maybe you might get a sniff of the loot.
Comment by bmn__ 7 hours ago
Here's what Asmongold would say. Coercion and incentivisation work. Charge everyone involved at gov.uk and Pwc with fraud, from the decision makers top to the lower decks doing the actual work. Enact immediate severe and drastic punishment, put them in a box for ten years and let them work off their debt to society by turning big rocks into little rocks or something. If the law is a hindrance, just change the law. It's not a real thing, it's made up, a shared idea in people's mind. If the state officials do not want to enact the will of the people, then use the 2nd box of liberty to replace them with those who do want. Anyone thinking about enriching oneself by following example of the offenders should become deathly afraid to do so. Defrauding the taxpayer would stop being a widespread problem over night.
If any of this causes a revulsion of abhorrence in your mind, then discharge yourself of social programming and put this into perspective. This is the reasonable and fair approach. They receive grace and get to keep their life. In other places and times of the world, they would simply beheaded and that would be the end of it.
If anyone reading this just wants to down-vote out of disagreement in the typical fashion of left-extremist knee-jerkers, then be advised that this bad faith acting changes no one's opinion, you're just feeding into making HN an echo chamber for radicals and you put yourself automatically on the wrong side of history for anyone to see. Try your hand not being a dismal coward by actually engaging in discussion.
Comment by beejiu 21 hours ago
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Comment by beejiu 21 hours ago
Comment by simgt 21 hours ago
If the request for proposal had been done fairly, that page would have cost a few tens of thousands.
Comment by samtp 21 hours ago
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Comment by madaxe_again 21 hours ago
This will have as much effect as a gnat’s fart.
Comment by beejiu 21 hours ago
Comment by FBISurveillance 21 hours ago