Amazon One palm authentication discontinued

Posted by KerryJones 6 hours ago

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Comments

Comment by wnevets 2 minutes ago

Comment by cmiles8 2 hours ago

The tech here was good but the product implementation was terrible. These scanners just showed up randomly in places and just sat there unused.

I literally both saw them all over and never actually saw anyone use it.

No clear onboarding pathway, no explanation as to what it did or why use it, no clarity on what happens to the data. Just a box sitting there.

It was as if all the focus was on the tech and nobody bothered to think about how to actually deploy a product to market.

Comment by toephu2 1 hour ago

What problem was it solving though? NFC contactless payments is already pretty fast and convenient. I feel like Amazon One Palm was invented to solve for a problem we didn't really have. Thus the failure.

Comment by michaelt 1 hour ago

There are certain enterprise applications that particularly like biometrics.

Gym entry system where you can't share your entry fob with a buddy

Corporate access control system, no need for a guard to deal with people who've forgotten their cards.

Time clock where it's impossible for workers to clock other people in/out.

Comment by bhhaskin 31 minutes ago

Sure, but that isn't what it was being used for, and all of those places already have access control systems.

Comment by 1 hour ago

Comment by burnte 37 minutes ago

I saw them show up without explanation, but I don't think that's the reason they were unused. If you look at it, it says what it is and to just hold your hand over it to use it, so it's very easy to learn to use and enroll.

I believe the problem was that people simply don't want Amazon to own copies of our finger/hand prints. I intentionally avoided the scanners because of that reason.

This was always doomed to fail, this was almost as dumb an idea as the Facebook Portal. Yeah, the tech is there, and works great, but just like no one wanted Facebook to have a 24/7 camera in their house, I don't think people want to give Amazon their biometric data.

FB Portal was rolled out right after all the media reporting about Cambridge Analytica and how utterly untrustworthy Facebook really was at it's code. A friend of mine was PM on it and I felt terrible for him because as excited as he was, I knew it was always going to fail.

"Do you have chickens in a coop? Hire Chicken Eating Foxes to watch them for you! They won't eat your chickens!" Note: Chickens may be eaten at anytime and will probably be eaten instantly.

Comment by Izikiel43 2 hours ago

I used them in whole foods all the time

Comment by Eric_WVGG 1 hour ago

sincere, non-trolling question: Why?

You clearly saw some value in the convenience. Smartphone and smartwatch NFC offers that convenience everywhere. Even setting up palm authentication feels like unnecessary work.

Comment by atkailash 1 hour ago

I used it at Whole Foods cause it did my prime code and charged me at the same time without digging my phone out of my pocket but also my Whole Foods has bad reception so it’s annoying to use

Comment by Eric_WVGG 29 minutes ago

You don't need reception of any kind to do an NFC payment, as long as the terminal has network access (even through ethernet).

the Prime code thing is a good point tho

Comment by stevewodil 22 minutes ago

Prime discounts were automatically applied if you use the credit card on your Amazon account I thought

Comment by vostrocity 1 hour ago

I like to go running with nothing on me besides a house key, and it's useful to be able to stop by Whole Foods after the run and buy a snack without a phone, watch, or wallet.

Comment by bombcar 1 hour ago

A powered door lock and keypad and you won't even need the house key!

Comment by fragmede 39 minutes ago

A richer zip code and safer streets and you won't need either!

Comment by Izikiel43 1 hour ago

Convenience?

Set up once with the CC with rewards for groceries, hover hand 2 seconds, done.

Apple Pay in the phone or watch are super convenient as well, but they take just a tad bit more of time between selecting the menus in the touch screen for pay options, and then selecting the matching CC.

I save like 30s? Possibly. Is this tech overkill? Most likely.

Comment by 1 hour ago

Comment by munchler 2 hours ago

This seemed like a bad idea to me from the beginning. Giving personal biometric details to a monster corporation is a nonstarter for both techies and normies.

Comment by burnte 36 minutes ago

Exactly, this is why it failed. Suddenly in every Whole Foods is an Amazon device saying "give me your hand print!" Uh, no.

Comment by ColinWright 6 hours ago

Click on the link to read about this:

    403 ERROR
    The request could not be satisfied.
    Request blocked. We can't connect to the server for this app
    or website at this time.  There might be too much traffic or
    a configuration error.  Try again later, or contact the app
    or website owner.

    If you provide content to customers through CloudFront, you
    can find steps to troubleshoot and help prevent this error by
    reviewing the CloudFront documentation.

    Generated by cloudfront (CloudFront)
    Request ID: IFiQvbhPlrP5MaRdM5km5yAdFAEmvC_IUx2LA899aXly11zm3wAoKg==
Is it the HN "Hug of Death" ?

Comment by tecleandor 54 minutes ago

Same right now from Spain. I guess it could be a geoblock, although I expected something more from Amazon

Comment by jsheard 6 hours ago

I doubt HN could knock over an Amazon site. They're probably geoblocking regions where that service never operated.

Comment by swiftcoder 5 hours ago

> I doubt HN could knock over an Amazon site

Not every amazon site is cloud-scale. Niche product like this might be running bare metal under someone's desk

Comment by ErroneousBosh 2 hours ago

No, apparently eu-west-1 went castors up earlier. I wouldn't be surprised if there was something related to this error.

The site came back around eu-west-1 which, while correlation isn't causation, it does look meaningfully in causation's direction and wiggle an eyebrow suggestively.

Comment by arjie 6 hours ago

This is sad. I loved paying by palm at Whole Foods because it was definitely the fastest way to do things. You just scanned and you were out. Now I've got to slowly type in my phone number for Prime and then tap my watch and select the right credit card (palm scan always used my groceries card). Ah well, perhaps adoption was low.

Comment by crazygringo 6 hours ago

I just scan the QR code from the Whole Foods app on my phone. Then tap the button to pay with the credit card linked to the account.

For security reasons, it makes sense that if you use your phone number rather than the QR code, of course you don't have the option to utilize the linked card.

Meant to register the palm thing but just never got around to it, wasn't even really sure how/where? That was the main blocker for me -- was never prompted to do it as part of checkout, and didn't want to waste time going over to customer service to ask how.

Comment by iamjake648 6 hours ago

It doesn't seem like a big deal, but this is just so much more annoying than using my palm that not only links my payment method but also prime membership.

Now I need to tap through a stupid app and scan a code.

We always stopped at whole foods on the way home from the gym, and I didn't always have my phone with me or readily accessible. This will definitely cause me to cut back on this quick stop in / impulse purchases.

Comment by jzimbel 5 hours ago

If you have an iOS phone you can create a shortcut on your home screen that jumps directly to the code in the Amazon app. Whole Foods app may have the Shortcuts integration too, but I use the Amazon app.

The code both applies your Prime membership and links your preferred payment method.

Comment by awakeasleep 2 hours ago

I believe it’s even quicker to ask Siri to open the Whole Foods app. You don’t need to touch anything and Face ID will unlock the phone while you’re talking.

Comment by alex_young 6 hours ago

I think “just” is doing a lot of work here.

  Steps I remember:
  1. Put down everything so you have 2 free hands. 
  2. Mention that it will take a minute to the cashier.  
  3. Unlock your phone.
  4. Find the Amazon app (this part is odd, you’re at Whole Foods).
  5. Dig around in the UI for the store code.  They move it around. 
  6. Present your phone to the cashier to scan.

Comment by crazygringo 5 hours ago

1. I've already put down the groceries I was carrying, so the cashier can scan them. I have free hands.

2. The cashier is busy scanning, you don't need to mention anything.

3. FaceID unlocks it automatically.

4. What Amazon app? I use the Whole Foods app. I keep it easily accessible, I don't need to find it.

5. The code is always displayed by default when you open the app. You never have to dig around anything.

6. Or scan it yourself under the customer-facing scanner they have for that.

Comment by thinkling 5 hours ago

The WF store I frequent has lousy cell reception, so add th step “open Settings app and get on store’s wifi” (and who knows what all that lets them track).

Comment by criddell 6 hours ago

The Whole Foods we go to is in a cellular dead zone. So much time is wasted by people standing there waiting for their phone to load.

Comment by crazygringo 6 hours ago

I've been bitten by that. I genuinely can't even guess why it needs internet to generate the code. Shouldn't it just be a TOTP-type thing?

Comment by arjie 6 hours ago

Ah, perhaps I should try this Whole Foods app. The Amazon app is very slow and requires a good data connection to launch so it's mildly inconvenient when you've already reached checkout and it won't open for you to get the QR code.

The palm thing was never prompted as part of checkout, it's true. I just did it while I was being checked out once years ago since it seemed so cool and it worked flawlessly since then. Honestly, I found the UX of it really all well done. Even if it didn't make it in the long term, I hope the team knows there were a few happy users out here!

EDIT: I just installed the Whole Foods app and it opens directly to the QR code. That's nice. It also selects the appropriate payment method. There doesn't seem to be a watch equivalent so I'll have to pull my phone out, but this definitely reduces the terrible blow of losing the palm scan. I hope it works well without good Internet access!

Comment by embedding-shape 5 hours ago

> Now I've got to slowly type in my phone number for Prime

Haven't the (big) supermarkets in the US adopted the whole "scan and go" thing that lots of countries in Europe have had for a long time? (maybe more than a decade at this point I think)

When I go to the supermarket, right after the entrance, I pick up a scanner, then as I pick stuff, I scan them and pack them. Then when I'm done, you scan a code, give back the scanner, take your stuff and leave. Kind of assumed this was done in the US first and then spread here, but maybe it started here? Not sure.

Comment by pirates 4 hours ago

Despite others saying that they have never seen it, Meijer stores have this, except instead of a store scanner you use your phone with an app. There are other reasons too, but this is a big part of why my family shops at Meijer compared every other store near us.

Comment by alex_young 5 hours ago

Haha no. US commerce improvements tend to trail EU by a decade.

We just got tap to pay a couple of years ago. People still pass bits of paper with signatures on them to pay each other for stuff.

Comment by embedding-shape 5 hours ago

> We just got tap to pay a couple of years ago

You mean NFC payments? :| Oh, and checks too? I guess things were very different than my assumption, interesting thing to have learned today. Thanks!

Comment by MiddleEndian 1 hour ago

We literally started rolling out chip-and-pin after tap-and-go was already rolled out in England (and presumably elsewhere). It made no fucking sense because it was obviously going to be replaced again, and chip-and-pin is a miserable experience. All it did was annoy everybody for several years.

Comment by zdragnar 2 hours ago

Paper checks aren't nearly so common for anything other than maybe a local tradesman or if you're renting from an individual. It's not uncommon to see high traffic places like gas stations refuse paper checks outright, or only accept them from local banks, as the onus is on the receiver if it doesn't clear.

NFC payments have been around for a bit but are only recently very widespread, COVID really pushed that forward.

The only notable big name holdout is Walmart. Somehow, they're still on either chip+pin or magnetic stripe cards only.

Comment by selkin 56 minutes ago

Walmart famously refuse to pay the extra couple of basis points that are charged by the various payment-rails-involved-entities when doing NFC payments instead of physical card.

Comment by alex_young 4 hours ago

I mean the physical credit cards didn’t have tap to pay most of the time until very recently. NFC has been around for a long time.

Comment by embedding-shape 4 hours ago

> I mean the physical credit cards didn’t have tap to pay most of the time until very recently

I think a couple of years before COVID hit most cards had it, but many stores didn't support it. But once COVID came and visited, all stores got new TPVs that could read NFC very quickly.

Comment by expedition32 2 hours ago

As much as I complain about Google I use Google Pay for basically everything. I'm not even taking my wallet with me...

Comment by g947o 1 hour ago

scan & go is in most grocery stores but I almost never see anyone using it.

Comment by cpuguy83 5 hours ago

That does not exist in the US as far as I've seen.

There's Amazon's "just walk out" stuff, which they just killed.

Comment by gamblor956 2 hours ago

Kroger (Ralph's, etc.) allows you to do tap and pay, or to scan and pay (using a QR code in the app tied to your customer profile). These work at the regular cashiers and in self-checkout.

Home Depot has also allowed this for lower-value items for several years.

Comment by bigstrat2003 5 hours ago

No, I've never seen that in the US.

Comment by IshKebab 4 hours ago

To be fair with scan & go you still have to scan your membership card which would be the equivalent of typing in your phone number.

But most retail tech in the US is suuuuper backwards. They were still signing credit card receipts until very recently. The way you pay for petrol/gas is bonkers.

Comment by embedding-shape 4 hours ago

> The way you pay for petrol/gas is bonkers.

Wait, what do you mean?

This is how it works for us: I go to the gas station, the pumps are locked by default, I await eye-contact with the person inside, wave at them, they unlock the pump, I pump the petrol, then I go in and pay.

I'm guessing it's radically different than that and involves signing papers somehow? Almost afraid to ask.

Comment by FateOfNations 2 hours ago

Thankfully no signatures involved. You roll up, swipe/dip/tap your card in a reader on the gas pump, enter your postal code (archaic security measure from the pre-chip card era), wait a few moments for the electronic authorization (they pre-authorize an amount in the $75-150 range), then pump, and leave.

If you are paying cash, you generally have to go inside before pumping and prepay, and then go back inside afterwards to get your change, if applicable.

Comment by IshKebab 2 hours ago

I only did it once in America and this was some years ago so maybe it's changed... but basically you have to somehow pay in advance. How do you do that without knowing how much petrol you'll need? Very good question! If I recall I basically overpaid and they refunded me or something like that. Crazy.

Comment by Dylan16807 2 hours ago

As an American, I always put my card into the pump itself and then fill up. No guessing, no change, no even going inside for a normal visit.

One time I went inside to buy a can to fill up, and I also paid upfront for a gallon, which made the pump cut off automatically.

I've never tried to pay for an unknown amount of gas with cash, and never felt any need to.

Comment by antgonzales 6 hours ago

Amazon, 1998: hello we sell books but online

Amazon, 2023: please return to your Primehouse for your nightly Primemeal, valued Primecitizen

- krang t. nelson

Comment by i_love_retros 5 hours ago

Is it really that hard to take an credit card out your purse or wallet and tap it that you were happy to hand over biometric data to amazon?

Comment by arjie 5 hours ago

Oh the alternative isn't taking a credit card out of my wallet and all that. It's scanning my Amazon Prime QR code and then tapping my watch after selecting the credit card. But it isn't "hard" per-se, just mildly inconvenient, and yes it doesn't take much inconvenience for me to volunteer my biometrics. Clearly that isn't sufficiently common a position or they wouldn't be removing it so your surprise is likely quite common as well.

Comment by lxgr 5 hours ago

I find scanning QR codes at the POS hugely inconvenient compared to paying with my watch. The discount has to be substantial for me to ever scan them.

Retailer apps are often surprisingly (expectably?) bad at dealing with spotty/no connectivity, and even if they aren't, getting my phone out of my pocket, unlocking it, opening the right app, getting to the right screen in it (oh, did it just log me out?) etc. takes about 10x as long as arming my smartwatch in a convenient moment and tapping it once the terminal asks for it. It doesn't even require a free hand, since the range of mine is much better than that of passive contactless cards.

Comment by arjie 5 hours ago

I like linking to the Amazon account because apart from the discounts (which are nice), it puts the receipt in my Amazon orders list. Yes, at Gus's there's no such linking feature or discount and I just tap my watch after selecting the appropriate card.

Amazon's app is just like what you describe. It is extraordinarily slow and needs a high-speed data network.

Comment by i_love_retros 5 hours ago

Amazon prime is tied to your credit card. One single action to pay: tap credit card against reader

Why do you have so many hoops to jump through like presenting QR code and tapping watch

Comment by arjie 5 hours ago

I would love that, but it doesn't seem to happen for me if I use the credit card that I have linked to my Amazon Prime membership as the payment method. When I tap it doesn't recognize my Prime membership. Do you have the Amazon Prime credit card perhaps?

The reason why I did the QR code and watch tap thing prior to the palm thing is that I didn't want to carry a single-use credit card.

I'd love the functionality you're talking about. Do you remember how you set it up to get that? Would love to have my grocery card automatically recognized as being linked to a Prime membership.

Comment by kay_o 1 hour ago

Any card on your account should work, last 4 must match, I have never entered number or scan QR

Comment by arjie 44 minutes ago

Oh, then my watch should suffice. Okay, I shall try it next time with a Prime discounted product!

Comment by falcor84 5 hours ago

It's another small source of friction. I don't know if biometrics are the solution, but I do find for example that I'm much more comfortable buying on a website I've used before and already has my card details, rather than giving them to a new website.

Comment by kingstnap 5 hours ago

The useful data in that story is the eating and shopping habits collected by the transaction. What are they going to do with the arrangement of lines on your palm, likely stored as a compressed latent vector not useful for reconstruction?

Comment by add-sub-mul-div 5 hours ago

I tap a piece of plastic in two seconds and not only do I not have to give any tech giants my biometrics, they're not added as middleman in the transaction at all.

Comment by dyauspitr 6 hours ago

Like literally scan your palm? There’s no way that’s on device like a fingerprint reader on your iPhone either. You’re okay with just providing biometric data to a large corp like that. Makes me shudder.

Comment by ceejayoz 5 hours ago

You wave your hand over a camera.

At this point I presume they collect such biometrics whether I like it or not; they have cameras everywhere.

Comment by lxgr 5 hours ago

Isn't it a deep vein scanner? Much harder to spoof than still images or even video.

Comment by ceejayoz 5 hours ago

Hard to spoof. Not hard to collect.

Comment by dyauspitr 5 hours ago

A grainy image of your palm from a surveillance camera capture is not going to expose biometric data. Your hand needs to be close enough to make out the detail required. Then tying that to your identity is very hard and takes manhours, not something you can replicate at scale. You’re giving them your palm print/vein scan tied to your identity on a plate. It’s very irresponsible.

Comment by ceejayoz 5 hours ago

> A grainy image of your palm

I really doubt getting a reasonably good image of my hand is tough for Amazon. But they don't really need my palm at all; most of the point of that was probably that it'd be much freakier to normies if the self-checkout just said "hi Bob!" when you got close via facial recognition.

> Then tying that to your identity is very hard and takes manhours…

That seems deeply unlikely. I'm probably on 50 different cameras at a Whole Foods, some of which I'd never notice, and at some point I have to check out, which ties all that footage to a credit card and my Prime account if I don't want to pay the non-deal prices for everything.

Comment by dyauspitr 5 hours ago

Faces are easier to change. Grow a beard, wear some glasses, put on some weight or some surgery if you really need to. Can’t change your eye print, finder prints, vein pattern or DNA.

Comment by ceejayoz 4 hours ago

That's not really been the case for years now.

Apple's FaceID can figure out who you are even with a N95 mask and sunglasses on.

And in most scenarios, you're gonna a) pay with a card with your name on it and b) head out to your car with its unique ID prominently displayed on it.

Comment by dyauspitr 2 hours ago

FaceID fails more than 85% of the time with a mask, sunglasses and a brimmed hat that covers the forehead.

Again, you can ditch your car but your biometric data will go into a pool that will be available to cross check against in perpetuity.

Comment by ceejayoz 2 hours ago

Now you're "that one guy who wears the mask, sunglasses, and a hat inside".

Pay cash every time and you're even more noticeable.

And then they start doing gait analysis or something, or use everyone's Ring camera to figure out where you come from.

Comment by crazygringo 6 hours ago

I didn't even know this was available to other businesses -- I've only ever seen it at Whole Foods.

Curious if they're keeping it at Whole Foods or discontinuing the hardware altogether? Can't say I've ever once seen someone actually use it to pay there.

Comment by adastra22 6 hours ago

I literally just signed up for this. Guess I have the killing touch.

I don’t see the point though. It is a payment solution in search of a problem. It is a nice bonus first party payment solution at Whole Foods though.

Comment by brk 6 hours ago

I used it once, a couple of weeks ago. Had been meaning to sign up for a couple of years and then just randomly completed the process recently.

Comment by kidfiji 6 hours ago

They've had them permanently installed at Seattle's largest indoor sports/entertainment arena

Comment by kstrauser 1 hour ago

I was always surprised there wasn't an uproar about these. A substantial chunk of Americans, i.e. a huge portion of evangelicals, devoutly believe a few things:

* The Bible book of "Revelations" is an accurate prediction of things that will happen exactly as described.

* Revelations predicts that in "the end times", it will become impossible to buy or sell anything without "the mark of the beast" on their forehead or right hand.

* The "mark of the beast" would be administered by the Antichrist.

From Revelations 13:16-17:

"And the second beast required all people, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark—the name of the beast or the number of its name."

I grew up in an extremely religious part of the US with a large evangelical population, and I know firsthand that a lot of people believe that all of the above is literally, precisely true. It's exactly what I was taught in Sunday School as a kid. I do not believe this; please don't feel the need to tell me why these ideas are not true because I already agree with you. However, a lot of my family and old neighbors would 100% agree with all of the above statements.

And yet, they seemed to have no problem with buying stuff from Amazon with a palm print, or using Sam Altman's creepy Orb eye scanner thing. I'm genuinely surprised at how little fuss there was about them.

Comment by 46493168 1 hour ago

The book you’re talking about is “Revelation” (singular) not “Revelations”

Comment by kstrauser 52 minutes ago

Ah, correct. I think I've heard it pronounced with the missing S more often without it.

Comment by gear54rus 1 hour ago

So did you ask any of them about this? These religious lunacy always seem like they are from some other planet to me haha.

Comment by 15155 47 minutes ago

They are a useful tool if you need to keep your civilization preoccupied and blissfully unaware of their current circumstances. Existential crises are expensive.

"Keep working! The next life - that's when it gets good!"

Comment by kstrauser 50 minutes ago

No, that's not the kind of subject I'd typically bring up in conversation. That would imply that I wanted to hear the answer.

Comment by 1 hour ago

Comment by bokohut 1 hour ago

Yet again another failed attempt to move to biometric identification linked to a payment instrument thus allowing one not to need to carry that payment method on person.

This is not the worlds first biometric payments failure, as that belongs to PayByTouch, nor will it be the last. Having been deeply involved in the technology systems around the worlds first attempt at PayByTouch I do wonder why the "easy" is not embraced by more? I think I know however as it is likely religious in nature and the beliefs around such things. I can vividly recall being told to hide my employee badge while walking through the crowd of protesters holding signage about "Mark of the beast" and more in my attempts to enter the PayByTouch headquarters which used to reside at 1 Market in San Fran CA many years ago.

Wash, rinse, repeat : Everything old is new again. Just give it time as biometric payments will come around once again for absolute, third times a charm?

Comment by wiether 2 hours ago

More details in their FAQ: https://aws.amazon.com/one/faqs/

Comment by Bluecobra 6 hours ago

They also had this as option to pay at Amazon Fresh, which seemed odd to me. You needed to use your phone to scan the QR code from your phone anyway, and they charged the credit card on file in your Amazon account.

Comment by Helithumper 5 hours ago

I found the palm payment at Whole Foods to be very convenient for the same reason as others in this thread.

The steps without using Amazon One were

* open the amazon app

* open the checkout thing

* click the QR code button

* click the amazon QR code

* Scan it

* Open Apple Wallet

* Pay

I hope that they will at least add the amazon QR code to apple wallet to make payment faster in store. That or something to make payment (with Amazon Prime link) as fast as with Amazon One even while not continuing Amazon One itself.

I wonder if they could use a NFC tag or something to quickly open the amazon app on your phone to pay or something?

Comment by davidmurphy 2 hours ago

download the Whole Foods app. It solely exists to display the QR code on startup.

Comment by ErroneousBosh 2 hours ago

Walk me through it.

Why do you have all these steps to pay at a supermarket?

When I am here in the UK, I wave my phone over the card reader, it goes "Pling!" and that's my stuff paid for.

Of course, it's different elsewhere.

When I am over in Austria, I wave my phone over the card reader, it goes "Pling!" and that's my stuff paid for, but this time in Euros, at the going exchange rate.

Comment by vinay427 2 hours ago

In the US, you also wave your phone over the card reader, it goes "Pling!" and that's your stuff paid for. The GP comment is not about paying (although it can do that too [1]), but rather about providing their Amazon account details for Amazon Prime discounts and other benefits.

A similar process is the case in the UK as well at Amazon Fresh stores, last I checked.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=...

Comment by nickorlow 3 hours ago

Can they not just associate your debit/credit card w/ your account?

Comment by jabroni_salad 4 minutes ago

Right.... every independent coffee shop I go to is able to credit me a loyalty point when I hit their toast terminal with google wallet. If I am filling up at Shell I get my points as long as I use the linked credit card. Any other experience is an unforced error.

Comment by mmmlinux 1 hour ago

They must have collected enough bio-metric data, or deemed hand prints to be not useful.

Comment by throwway120385 1 hour ago

Or they've proven that you can use vein patterns in human skin to positively identify individuals well enough that payment losses are an acceptable risk, and now they plan to just integrate that into their surveillance apparatus everywhere.

Comment by dfajgljsldkjag 5 hours ago

These were neat to use at whole foods but I never saw them anywhere else. I guess Amazon just didn't really have much penetration in payment terminals in general. Maybe a deal with clover or toast could have changed things.

Comment by nickorlow 6 hours ago

Wonder what stunted adoption of this? High costs, users not liking it b/c privacy, credit cards/tap to pay being a good enough experience already? The handful of times I used this, it was nice.

Comment by jasonjei 6 hours ago

I was personally creeped out by it at the handful of Whole Foods I saw this. I’d rather tap and pay or pay by QR code.

Comment by adastra22 6 hours ago

I just signed up and used it at Whole Foods. For me, and for that use case only it removes a step of loading the Whole Foods app to scan a QR code for my account.

But have no idea why anyone else would adopt this.

Comment by astrashe2 6 hours ago

My doctor's office was using it. I didn't want to give them my biometric data.

Comment by squokko 6 hours ago

People don't want to give Amazon their biometrics?

Comment by iamjake648 6 hours ago

If you trust Amazon, they were never storing images of your actual palm but instead creating and storing unique hashes from that data. Again, if you trust them, they did it in just about the most privacy protecting way possible.

Comment by yalogin 1 hour ago

This was a terrible idea to begin with and am glad it’s discontinued. Hope they delete the biometric data securely.

Comment by 6 hours ago

Comment by nickorlow 6 hours ago

Amazon it on a killing spree lately it seems

Comment by radicalethics 6 hours ago

I think they are going all in on Alexa+ and cutting many other teams (speaking fully as an outsider). The new Echo Dot Max makes controlling your TV/Browsing youtube with natural language really nice (same for exploring Amazon Music - Spotify needs to catch up with this fast). Subscriptions for AI in the living room is what they are first movers of at the moment.

Comment by Bluecobra 6 hours ago

How does that compare with Google? I tried updating my Google Mini smart speakers to have Gemini and it still seems dumb as a box of rocks.

Comment by arjie 6 hours ago

This has been the worst downgrade for me. Response times have skyrocketed. The minimum time to response is now a few seconds slower and the responses continue to be low quality. The speaker seems to have even lost some functionality where it says "I can't do that yet" for a thing it mostly could already do previously. If I could tell anyone with Google Home devices one thing, it would be to not 'upgrade' to Gemini.

Comment by nickorlow 3 hours ago

Google update sucks. Not only is it slower + generally dumber, but their AI alignment has made it refuse to answer very normal questions (I got scolded by my speaker for asking about the hours of the nearest liquor store)

Comment by radicalethics 6 hours ago

No experience with Google yet. Amazon still has more work to do with making their tool-use calls bullet proof, but I've been able to search Youtube naturally and "open the first video" (this is still rudimentary, it's not perfect yet). Pretty good success moving around the Fire TV app with voice (open, exit), reasonably good at switching Live channels. Really fun with Amazon music, "pull up a Taylor Swift album, but acoustic only, from 2010s ...", stuff like that. It's great, and I expect it to become rather ... perfect in time.

Other things:

- Great for todo/reminders with timers

- "Hey Alexa, turn my lights on at 5 everyday, close them at 12"

- Not great at controlling Prime Video yet, can search it, but not great yet at all. Expecting this to be perfect at some point as well.

It's almost like a ... voice operating system.

Comment by woah 5 hours ago

Is this what the 16,000 were working on?

Comment by quotemstr 6 hours ago

It's interesting how despite Google and Amazon both canceling products constantly, only one is infamous for the practice.