Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

https://bydautomotive.com.au/shark-6

You can only get the Lightning from the factory as a super crew with a center console, but some people have converted theirs to a front bench and column shifter for a total of six seats.

Theres also the Chevy Silverado EV WT trim which is a similar base model trim, but with the huge heavy battery its paired with it's still an expensive truck.

A normal van is better in every single way. I can't figure out why someone would put their expensive tools in a pick-up's bed when this is an option: https://modulinecabinets.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/van-...

If you are living in such an area where they can't even figure that kind of thing out, it sounds like there might be something in the water.

A modern pickup truck can fit the payload capacity of an entire Honda civic in the back of the cab. I've never seen someone put sacks of groceries in the bed of their truck. Maybe packs of water or charcoal, but no one is putting their produce and boxed goods back there.

If your observation is accurate, the more likely reason is that people just don't like going out when it's raining. Getting your shoes/pants wet sucks, getting your car (or truck) seats wet sucks, rain traffic sucks, there's more crashes - which suck, and by contrast you could just be sitting at home enjoying the relaxing sounds of rain, which doesn't suck.

But I would also trade this truck for an all electric or mostly electric Maverick as long as it had enough cabin space for my needs (children).

Isn't this the entire pitch of the cybertruck?

You lose about half your range towing so you’re still going to drive two hours, stop for 30-45 minutes, repeat.

So it’s still far from compelling for anyone towing or doing truck stuff.

How much of that is the result of the relatively maturity of the technology? We've been continuously improving ICE based transportation for well over a hundred years. It's been a lot shorter for electric vehicles.

I suspect that there are bigger strides to make with electrics that may eventually turn that around.

The rest, yeah. The chemical stacks in the batteries are expensive, and dealer markup was a problem (now they're 47-56k new). But the energy costs! $7-12 for a fill-up on home power overnight instead of $75-85 at the gas station.

And maintenance. So little maintenance. For local non-towing fleets these would save a lot.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/why-evs-are-now-cheaper-tha...

This is in Manhattan mostly below 60th St. though, that might be the difference?

I guess Mach-E beats even the R1S but they're not really the same kind of car. Ioniq 5 beats Mach E in CA, as does the MY.

The better question might be how often does one utilize the unique shape and capability of a pickup.

Also, define heavy. Half ton and below, sure, those are just differently-shaped SUVs to most people who own them. 3/4 ton and up are work trucks. But every truck owner finds themselves moving things you can’t move in an SUV on occasion.

This sound like every EVangalist who says road trips aren’t important when most everyone takes at least one a year.

The problem is that we built our world around cheap portable energy, so problems that are trivial technically are difficult socially - the client won't let you use the power outlet, if they do they'll make you pay for the power use, asking is weird and unusual and requires more negotiating with the client, it's just not worth it. Like, if oil never existed then residential housing would probably be built with a special "contractor power outlet" that could be billed separately on a pay-per-use basis - call up the number, dial in your Designated Contractor Code or whatever fictional paperwork, and you get charged for the power you pull until the socket is unplugged.

Or maybe some other solution that I can't think of, because people in that world had to think of one and spent decades refining it. Or maybe they invented lithium batteries 90 years ago (~1935) and now they're on par with oil.

It has breakable expensive headlights and taillights, that is for sure. But so do ICE F150s...

This is an unfortunate trope that is oft repeated by those that live their life in constant upgrade cycles.

The regular F-150 is a pinnacle of value engineering for Ford. It's infinitely repairable for owners. Look around on the highway, you will see hundreds of 15+ year old F150s on the road, and a few times a day I will see 25+ year old trucks on the road too. There are thousands of aftermarket parts for repair or customization. Owners are happy with them, and they recognize the truck as something they buy once and keep for a long time.

If it is any kind of expression of self, its one of "I don't need to be consumeristic; I picked something simple that will last a lifetime."

The entry of Japanese automakers into the F-150 market is instructive. While the Japanese trucks looked similar, the early versions had a bad reputation for slowly coming apart under the typical workload and stresses people put on the F-150, which Ford had been refining for many decades. Those trucks often get used hard, and because people know an F-150 can take it they aren't afraid to use them hard. The median abuse significantly exceeded what the Japanese engineers anticipated. Japanese trucks are much better now but the attention to survivability is a big part of the F-150's enduring reputation.

I've taken the Ford platform through situations where I've seen many other vehicles get destroyed. That's where the loyalty comes from and why it is a default choice for many. Most people aren't using them as hard as I have but it does provide a safety blanket.

Also, the most green vehicle is the one you keep operating over any new vehicle, electric or not. Truck owners tend to measure their ownership in decades.

How many times has this been a problem for you?

Why? People always say this. AWD doesn't help you stop faster. It won't help you get around the corner. You aren't on a racetrack.

Buy better tires. A real set of winter specialized tires will do better than any powertrain option. If you are absolutely insistent that no really you are totally special, get studded tires.

The best snow performance I've ever had out of a vehicle came not from the AWD trucks people around me owned, but from $34 walmart winter tires on a Dodge Neon. Because being light is a benefit.

Or, and this is the big one, stop being so bad at driving! My mom would spend $350 a tire on the best best best snow tire money could buy and fill it full of studs and still feel like she was out of control in the snow, because if you put your foot down on the pedal, any vehicle with more than 20HP will spin the tires.

Learn how to steer in the snow and slightly out of control. It's pretty intuitive IMO and fun.

Just be gentler. Press the pedal less to start. Or don't, modern ESC has no problem modulating the throttle for you.

Slate is very far from DIY.

A DIY Slate would be conversion kits/service for existing trucks.

I'm on board for a house that cost less than 50K.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefly_(vehicle)

EVs are inherently pretty simple machines. All the complexity is in the battery, and China’s crushing everyone at battery tech. It’s not even close. It’s like a human trying to beat a polar bear in hand to hand combat.

They really need to deregulate the auto industry and let us buy the Yugos with a Jetsons battery. America is a poor country now. Nobody can afford used cars in this economy, never mind new ones.

Ford is “expected to take about $19.5 billion in charges, mainly tied to its electric-vehicle business” [1].

If serviceability was the problem, that sounds like a solid incentive to get it right.

[1] https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/ford-takes-19-5-billion-c...

And tangential to the infotainment system, Tesla dropping sat radio receivers is pretty annoying if you're frequently outside of cell service.

Tesla is to blame for my parents thinking EV = complicated iPad on wheels. An electric drivetrain doesn't have to come with a touchscreen UI for everything.

At 100 miles of range, you only have a couple of blank spots.

With third party chargers, there's really only one blank spot in Montana. At this point, the range is already a solved problem.

Earlier this year, I did experiments with placing stations manually on the map and using the US road networks to calculate the isolines. With just about 70 more stations, you can make any point on the public road network in the entire contiguous US lie within 50 miles of the nearest charger.

So the charging availability is likely going to be solved completely even during the current shitty admin.

> It's not just about being 50 miles from a gas station, it's about the time it takes to charge on top of that.

At 325kW charge rate (common on recent chargers), you're looking for maybe 20 minutes to get enough charge to reach your destination.

That said, we have an F250. I'd love to have an electric truck, but I use mine for towing almost exclusively. If I'm hauling a trailer hours away, I really don't need to deal with the hassle of stopping along the way to charge. I've yet to see a charging station set up for conveniently charging an electric vehicle with a trailer.

When we lived the Bay Area a decade ago, we had a Nissan Leaf, one of the early ones. It only got 95 miles to a charge if you were lucky, but for commuting in the South Bay we absolutely loved it.

Here in Vermont? F250 and a Subaru. I'd love to make the second an electric, but no one actually makes a good AWD electric Crosstrek equivalent that's actually designed for dirt roads and not the city.

Maybe 50 road trips? Usually hundreds of miles, with the longest at 1000mi. Literally the easiest road trips I've done in my life.

Hey now, my 8 year-old Pixelbook still has 2 more years before it's out of support.

Not a Tesla but a different EV. I've taken it on about a dozen road trips over the years. It's been fine. I pull off the highway, plug in, go grab a quick snack, get back in the car and go on my way. On a several hour drive it adds an extra 20 minutes assuming I'm not stopping at all in the ICE, not that big of a deal. And honestly I should be doing that stretch break, and I'm often stopping for a meal anyways.

But that's like rich people. Nouveau rich sport designer fashion to show off how much money they have, but true wealth doesn't need to show off like that. If the tech lead came in with a battle hardens Chromebook running a distro they created on crostini, I would respect them more, not less.

Spoken like someone who hasn't lived past the suburbs.

I needed some plumbing work done last winter and had to hire someone new because my preferred plumber couldn't access my road with his van.

The lack of AWD/4x4, lack of ground clearance, inability to tow are all massive drawbacks for several lines of business. Tonneau or hard covers and enclosed trailers take care of shielding from the elements just fine.

Maybe not where you live but there are many parts of the US where you really do want significant ground clearance regardless of vehicle type. The ubiquity of Subarus in several regions of the US isn't because people are fond of Subarus as an automotive brand.

High ground clearance isn't about "going offroad".

"Offroad" is 60% of the state 50+% of the year

This could be said anywhere with snow, by time the DOT repairs the frost heave after winter its winter again.

So there are 5 other "pure" EVs with class IV or V hauling capability for sale, and many SUVs. What does "actual hauling" mean?

Paraphrased from Upton Sinclair

And then I saw the Telo! Hah, they went too far in the opposite direction. Something between these two is what I'd like.

It comes in a few grades, the better ranks are magnificently, astonishingly bright! You can also get more flexible, stretchy types made to be stitched or glued onto fabric.

I outfitted my classy black bike and bike gear with a bunch of material from reflectivepro.com, they're easy to deal with even for consumers who only need a little bit of material.

My running hypothesis is the autobright features on some cars is to blame. My friend drives around with his on and I definitely notice it doesn't properly react.

  > they just drive a tesla, which just have blinding lights

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3pTHSIYFlg

People out in the ranch country, oil patch, some mining areas, etc often want a reliable 600-ish miles unloaded. That’s why extended fuel tanks are a common option. Even without an extended fuel tank, you can often achieve that with an ICE and a jerry can.

EVs have great potential as 4WD off-road vehicles. In a lot of ways they are more naturally suited to it. Their main weakness is range and loiter time. In many contexts it will be days before you’ll be able to get to a charging point.

The killer feature of ICE in this context is the tremendous range and simplicity of extending range if you need more. Fuel is very compact, easy to bring with you, and available from other vehicles if you run short. An EV that can augment its range indefinitely with fuel is probably the sweet spot.

I think we’ll get there relatively soon.

The EX90 platform is from the a ground up a purely electric vehicle while the 2025 XC90 runs on the same platform with upgrades and face-lifts since 2015.

The EX90 is a couple of years late to the market due to software integration problems.

Previously they’ve been sharing platforms across ICE and BEV like the XC40 and XC40 Recharge now rebranded EX40. But now Volvo is going electric.

https://insideevs.com/news/777407/scout-motors-erev-reservas...

I'm sure this wasn't lost on Ford, 80% of Scout reservations come with the EREV and only 20% BEV.

Maybe one day they will have enough volume in the segment to justify making the pure BEV version again but with parts sharing with the EREV. An advantage to EREV design is that if done smartly you can offer the same vehicle stripped down and BOOM you have a BEV too.

The absolute sweet spot, as someone from a country with long long distances, is a plugin series hybrid that has ~150-300km EV range and a ~60 litre fuel tank. That's getting me to work entirely electric, and then once a month when I need to see family I can chew down the fossil fuels.

I recall the bmw serial hybrid was called a range extender, because the gas motor couldn't actually put out enough energy to drive the vehicle on the freeway.

So basically it was an EV with a small +xx mile extra range from the gas engine.

so no "ice for road trips", more like "ice for an additional +xx miles" then you need to recharge.

In comparison the chevy volt had a better hybrid design (not a serial hybrid) and you could drive it on gasoline only.

It’s honestly perfect for us. 32 miles on a charge, we barely touch the gas except for the winter when it’s so cold out we need the engine to warm us up. Any other time and the battery is all we need, and it charges overnight on a simple 110V wall outlet. Long trips are still possible, you just drive. We go through maybe 8 tanks of gas per year with our occasional long trips (compared to having to stop at a charging station for an hour, I’ll take it.)

IMO, the biggest perk is dependent on the ability to charge at home. If you can, then the price per mile is about half (if Google is right that California rates are about $0.30/kWh) or less than for an ICE. But even if the $/mile were equal, never needing to visit a gas station again is itself the biggest perk.

And sure there are people for whom an EV won't meet their range needs, but probably way fewer than think that's the case for them.

1) forced technology transfer/IP theft -- all foreign automakers/EV battery producers forced to give up IP to access China's market (and subsidies). This was litigated before the WTO by the EU in 2018 (see WT/DS549):

  Hybrid in a Trade Squeeze, Keith Bradsher, Sept 5, 2011, NYT

  ... The Chinese government is refusing to let the Volt qualify for subsidies totaling up to $19,300 a car unless G.M. agrees to transfer the engineering secrets for one of the Volt’s three main technologies to a joint venture in China with a Chinese automaker, G.M. officials said.

  Power Play, Trefor Moss, May 17, 2018, WSJ

  ... China requires auto makers to use batteries from one of its approved suppliers if they want to be cleared to mass-produce electric cars and plug-in hybrids and to qualify for subsidies. These suppliers are all Chinese, so such global leaders as South Korea’s LG Chem Ltd and Japan’s Panasonic Corp. are excluded.
  ... Foreign batteries aren’t officially banned in China, but auto executives say that since 2016 they have been warned by government officials that they must use Chinese batteries in their China-built cars, or face repercussions. That has forced them to spend millions of dollars to redesign cars to work with inferior Chinese batteries, they say.
  ... “We want to comply, and we have to comply,” said one executive with a foreign car maker. “There’s no other option.”

  Why a Chinese Company Dominates Electric Car Batteries. Keith Bradsher and Michael Forsythe, Dec 22, 2021, NYT

  The government soon said electric car buyers could get subsidies only if the battery was made by a Chinese company. G.M., which had not been notified of the rule, started shipping Buick Velite electric cars in 2016 with batteries made in China by LG, a South Korean company.
  Angry consumers and dealers complained that local officials were denying them subsidies, people familiar with the episode said. G.M. switched heavily to CATL for the huge Chinese market.

  Why a Chinese Company Dominates Electric Car Batteries.  Keith Bradsher and Michael Forsythe, Dec 22, 2021, NYT

  ... A rival had released a video suggesting that a technology used by the company, CATL, and other manufacturers could cause car fires. Imitating a Chinese government safety test, the rival had driven a nail through a battery cell, one of many in a typical electric car battery. The cell exploded in a fireball.
  Chinese officials took swift action — by dropping the nail test, according to documents reviewed by The New York Times. The new regulation, released two months later, listed who had drafted it: First on the list, ahead of the government’s own vehicle testing agency, was CATL.

re: subsidies. China's consumer direct purchase subsidy ended in Dec 2022, but was extended again as tax credit for another 4 years in Jun 2023. Just to be sure though, there are many other subsidies besides the consumer subsidies at every layer of China's EV/battery supply-chain. The EU's anti-subsidy probe last year (see Regulation 2024/1866) for instance evolved around "export subsidies."

The scale of car travel plus the inherent kinetic energy involved make a correlated risk particularly likely to lead to a mass casualty event. There are very few information system vulnerabilities with that magnitude of short-term worst case outcome.

I agree with your point. But cars are the last line of defense, and they are technology most people understand. With computers, you can just unplug them at the end of the day. A backdoor in a car or a drone or something just kills you.

Their production infrastructure is.

> the idea that China would turn off their EVs or starting to use them as weapons from the other side of the world is borderline absurd

Is it? If we got into a shooting match with Beijing, would we not try to hijack Tesla’s OTA features to disrupt their economy?

For personal use, like you mention, people use a small trailer. You own one or borrow it freely from many places, hitch it to your car, haul dirt, and then detach it. No need to drive a truck everywhere because you need to haul some stuff once a month.

> But this idea that no normal person needs a pickup truck a dozen times a year is just weird.

Yet the US is the only country where office workers own trucks. The only real use of a F150 style truck is offroad hauling, which is not something most people have to regularly do.

I am from the UK but live in Canada. I only see three types of businesses using those Transit style vans here in North America: food delivery, parcel delivery and landscaping businesses. I assume the landscapers are carrying dirt at least some of the time.

Really? ... I'm seeing them adopted more widely in Europe now by businesses. Perhaps as second hand or lease prices are coming down. Maybe that doesn't translate to the US ...

Quite nostalgic seeing them run around Central London with business signs on their side... much like the originals. My point: not a gimmick in my experience.

1. you don't need straps and bungees for the van - ours can take pipework, framing lumber and other "long" stuff up to 16', straight on the floor, fully interior.

2. you don't need the gate down - it handles 4x8' sheet goods with all the doors closed, either vertical or horizontal

3. security concerns are much better

4. weather concerns are much better

5. for some folks, you can have highly effective work space inside the van (granted, I've seen some loose equivalents on custom work trucks)

6. mileage is generally significantly better

From my POV, the two wins of the truck form factor are (a) easy of loading/unloading bulk material (e.g. the van is 100% useless for gravel) (b) tall loads. That said, I don't think I've ever need to move anything that was too tall for our Sprinter - worst comes to worst, it gets laid down.

I remember when pickups were considerably cheaper than cars, but no more.

What are some possible attachments?

4-6.5' Truck Bed, Trailer, Camper, Mobile Workshop / Trade Rig, Car hauler, Bed with rack and storage and 270° awning

What all needs to be connected?

Mechanical attachment, 4WD/AWD/RWD axle and differential, CAN bus, backup can, lights

Public link: Open Truck Bed Standard Proposal https://gemini.google.com/share/1e70ae398d26 :

"Kinetic-Link" (K-Link) open spec:

> The proposed Active-AWD Trade Platform utilizes a Through-the-Road (TTR) Hybrid architecture to decouple the mechanical drivetrain while maintaining synchronized propulsion via a Vehicle Control Unit (VCU). By integrating high-topology Axial Flux or Radial-Axial (RAX) in-wheel motors, the system achieves exceptional torque density within the limited packaging of a trailer wheel well. The control strategy relies on Zero-Force Emulation, utilizing a bi-directional load cell at the hitch to modulate torque output via a PID loop, ensuring the module remains neutrally buoyant to the tow vehicle during steady-state cruising. In low-traction environments, the system transitions to Virtual AWD, employing Torque Vectoring to mitigate sway and Regenerative Braking to prevent jackknifing, effectively acting as an intelligent e-Axle retrofit. This configuration leverages 400V/800V DC architecture for rapid energy discharge and V2L (Vehicle-to-Load) site power, solving the unsprung weight damping challenges through advanced suspension geometry while eliminating the parasitic drag of traditional passive towing.

A modular truck bed could have Through-the-road TTR AWD (given a better VCU) and e.g. hub motors or an axle motor.

Ford knows their market. Most F-150 buyers aren't looking for a functional truck, they want a comfortable commuter car that looks like a cool truck.

1995 Ford Ranger Extended Cab - 3200+ lbs - 198" long - 69" wide - 6' bed

2023 Ford Ranger Super Cab (last year they had a 2 door) - 4100+ lbs - 210" length - 73" width - 6' bed

1000 lbs heavier, a foot longer, a few extra inches wide, with the same size bed.

https://www.edmunds.com/ford/ranger/2023/supercab/features-s... https://www.edmunds.com/ford/ranger/1995/extended-cab/st-754...

The new rangers have the height of the old F150 which makes their beds look just weird.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izvdO-zdlKg