The Problem of Teaching Physics in Latin America (1963)
Posted by rramadass 17 hours ago
Comments
Comment by bariumbitmap 5 minutes ago
> At the end of the 20th century, a large “science gap” still exists between Latin America and the developed countries of the North.
> The description is not intended to be a complete analysis, but may give a sense of the significant development that has occurred in the past half century and of what might be needed to make the 21st century a flourishing epoch for science in Latin America .
> The most developed group includes Brazil, Mexico, and Argentina, which have, respectively, about 3000, 2200, and 2000 PhDs involved in physics research.
https://physicstoday.aip.org/features/physics-in-latin-ameri...
https://aip.brightspotcdn.com/PTO.v53.i10.38_1.online.pdf
Feynman, of course, always had confidence in the ability of the people of Latin America to do good physics. In fact his mentor Manuel Sandoval Vallarta was born in Mexico and emigrated to the US to study at MIT. Emigration to the US or Europe is typical of successful physicists from Latin America, including Juan Maldacena, a theorist from Argentina who discovered the AdS/CFT correspondence and has been a professor at the Institute for Advanced Study since 2001.
Anecdotally, I think Europe has more opportunities these days. My friend Gustavo, a high energy theorist from Brazil, got his PhD in the US but now works at the Oskar Klein Centre for Cosmo Particle Physics (OKC) in Stockholm.
Comment by anonymousiam 7 hours ago
Comment by ozim 6 hours ago
It is like teaching snowboarding. You can get the pointers but students have to actually do the snowboarding - there is no shortcut.
The same with knowledge and understanding, you can organize material so they don’t end up in unproductive rabbit holes - but they have to work out their understanding on their own.
Classroom setting is also not really good one unless you have small groups on the same level - larger group and you are just pulling slow ones up and fast ones are getting bored.
Comment by setopt 5 hours ago
Some basic examples:
- Don’t give test and exam questions that are too similar to examples and problems in the text book and homework. Then they’ll know that learning to generalize is a better pay-off than memorizing the textbook problems, and may choose to change their strategy when studying for exams.
- Reduce the amount of curriculum. By studying in depth instead of in breadth, you have time to focus on how things really work instead of just rushing through material on a surface level, and in my experience that improves understanding more. (But I know many disagree with me on this one.)
- Focus on problem solving as part of the lectures (student-active learning). I’m not an extremist, like some advocating that we shouldn’t lecture at all, but the pedagogical literature is pretty clear that small doses of lectures interspersed with problem solving enhances understanding.
- Try to teach intuition and conceptual models, not just facts. For example, as a student, I really struggled understanding eigenvalues and eigenvectors because our linear algebra textbook defined it by Αv = λv but made no attempt at explaining what it means intuitively and geometrically. Similarly, integration by parts has a simple and beautiful geometric interpretation that makes it obvious why this is correct, but we were only taught the opaque symbolic version in my calculus classes. When I teach myself, I try to lean on such visualizations and intuitive pictures as much as possible, as I think that really enhances «understanding»; not necessarily being able to cough up a solution to a problem you’ve seen before as fast as possible, but being able to generalize that knowledge to problems you haven’t seen before.
But who knows, maybe I’m just biased by how I myself perceive the world. I know there are some people who for example eschew geometric pictures entirely and still do very well. My experience is that most students seem to appreciate the things listed above though.
Comment by rramadass 4 hours ago
Students need to take responsibility for themselves and Teachers need to point them in the right direction and help/steer as needed.
A Chinese Martial Arts saying which i keep in mind goes;
To show one the right direction and the right path, oral instructions from a Master are necessary, but mastery of the subject only comes from one's own incessant self-cultivation.
A good authoritative book can be the stand-in for a Master in which case there is more discipline and effort required of the Student.
These days different types of books/videos focusing on different aspects of the same subject are so easily available/affordable that the Teacher/Student can both work together and focus on understanding. A handful of real-world problems modeled and worked through beats pages of mere symbol manipulation. We need to start stressing quality over quantity i.e. deliberate effort via deliberate practice in the right way.
Comment by watwut 2 hours ago
And it is all about the students being disciplined and putting in effort, but toward rote memorization rather then understanding, because that is what teachers told them to do.
Comment by rramadass 2 hours ago
I had submitted the original article for discussion since the observations seem to apply to how Physics/Science has been taught/studied in most countries and not just Latin America.
Comment by Ozzie_osman 5 hours ago
Having been taught in different systems that emphasize understanding vs memorization, I'd have to disagree. The teachers and the overall academic system can encourage, test for, and reward rote memorization. Or it can encourage, test for, and reward problem-solving, critical thinking, and understanding.
Everything from the way teachers lecture, to assigned reading, to assignments, to tests will influence how students think and what they optimize for. There will always be exceptions who forge their own path, but most students like most people just go with the flow.
Comment by adrianN 5 hours ago
Comment by Swizec 5 hours ago
My favorite college class was compilers.
The whole semester you worked on a compiler for a simplified Pascal. Each homework added a feature.
The final exam was 4 hours. Open textbook, open internet. No chat with classmates. You got a description of 3 features to add to your compiler. Grade is number of tests passed.
Fantastic way to teach understanding.
Comment by Ntrails 3 hours ago
~ 40% bookwork. Rote learned facts ~ 30% standard questions. Do in an exam hall standard variants of what was done in class/homework/tutorials. ~ 30% New applications and logical extensions.
I don't know how well they achieved that split, I suspect it was mostly aspirational. Seemed like a reasonable ideal though!
Comment by hks0 5 hours ago
But it doesn't need to be that hopeless. Learning is a skill and schools can help each individual find the ways working best for them. Starting by not packing gazillion number of people in a class.
Comment by canjobear 3 hours ago
Problem sets with feedback.
Comment by atoav 4 hours ago
But it is also true that (1) not all universities (or all departments, or all professors) are worth their salt and (2) snowboarding may not be a skill that is highly sought after in the society you live in.
Gladly most academic skillsets are highly transferable if the student isn't totally dull.
Comment by rramadass 7 hours ago
However, this speech generalizes and posits that the problem is not specific to Latin America but to most countries (including so-called developed ones) in the teaching of Physics or any other Science.
Hence the opening para;
The problem of teaching physics in Latin America is only part of the wider problem of teaching physics anywhere. In fact, it is part of the problem of teaching anything anywhere – a problem for which there is no known satisfactory solution.
I think this is highly pertinent today given the use of AI/LLM models for extracting "correct answers" to all of settled (mostly) Science. At least with a textbook you had to expend some thought/effort; with AI tools even that is removed and you literally need know/understand even less than before.
So where does that leave Science Education? How do we reform the Education System?
Comment by mieses 7 hours ago
Comment by easyThrowaway 5 hours ago
Comment by claaams 6 hours ago
and not the fact that the US has spent 150+ years destabilizing that part of the world.
Comment by nyeah 22 minutes ago
Also now the US is being destabilized. So we are beginning to get some valuable first-hand experience.
Comment by stinkbeetle 4 hours ago
Comment by xandrius 3 hours ago
LATAM started from the get go being awfully disrupted from the 1500s and in catastrophic ways. Also, we don't call any of those areas Latin X. It shows how much impact the conquerors had that it even defines how we can the region to this day.
Comment by stinkbeetle 3 hours ago
I don't think it is. Europe was full of wars, civil wars, conquest, occupation, and suppression and destabilization of competing nations for all that time, for example.
Comment by igogq425 2 hours ago
Comment by boxed 1 hour ago
It's a brutal dictatorship very similar to Iran. Let's all keep that in mind.
Comment by igogq425 9 minutes ago
https://www.amnesty.de/sites/default/files/2025-03/030_2025_...
And it is simply irrational not to link Cuba's problems with the US embargo.
Comment by girvo 1 hour ago
Comment by 4gotunameagain 3 hours ago
And every place actively destabilized by an empire is definitely unstable.
The amount of coups directly planned and executed or supported by the US military/intelligence/lobbying apparatus in south America and the rest of the world is incredible.
And then the presidents have the audacity to say that it is the right and responsibility of the locals to govern (as said by biden on Afghanistan exit).
It truly has been the most exploitative empire ever. I hope the Chinese do better. We'll find out.
Comment by actionfromafar 9 minutes ago
Comment by sabellito 3 hours ago
Comment by stinkbeetle 3 hours ago
> century-level timescales
Doesn't sound very scientific or predictive. Is also ignorant of history. Ottoman empire lasted many centuries. So did Roman empire. Which crushed and oppressed and destabilized a lot of Europe. China famously had their "century of humiliation" which was "century-level timescale" of "empire actively disrupting a region".
Comment by 4gotunameagain 2 hours ago
Comment by Ozzie_osman 5 hours ago
Comment by boxed 1 hour ago
Latin America is bigger than Cuba and Chile...
Comment by dndjfkfkrk 5 hours ago
Comment by zorked 3 hours ago
No, it shows that the country is poor - the desire to pay higher salaries was always there, but it's hard. People in rich countries think money grows on trees because for them, it kind of does.
And this is why development advice from "intellectuals" in rich countries is worthless.
Comment by rafaelbeirigo 2 hours ago
Comment by leidenfrost 2 hours ago
Some countries sell primary goods and other countries manufacture them.
But it turns out it's the manufacturing industry the one that trickles wealth the most, raises salaries and improves education overall.
China knew this. And used all its non-democratic powers to make their country a manufacturing superpower.
A country that only extracts natural resources can't hold a numerous population. And if it does, a big % of them is doomed to a life of misery.
Comment by IAmBroom 34 minutes ago
You'd think it would make you rich; instead it makes you miners, and ripe for invasion.
Comment by actionfromafar 6 minutes ago
Comment by niemandhier 1 hour ago
It’s exam. The professor enters the room and tells students there will be 3 exams.
One extremely hard all books allowed, it’s either pass with top grade or fail, nothing in between.
One hard, one book allowed, it’s either pass with moderate grade or fail, nothing in between.
One moderate, no book allowed, but if you know the books you can pass, it’s passing grade or fail.
Students are told to sort according to the exam they want to take. Very hard to the right, hard in the middle, moderate to the left.
Once students are sorted the professor says: „ Right pass. Middle come back next year. Left go home, Russia does not need you.“
Comment by seblon 5 hours ago
Comment by Aayush28260 17 hours ago
Comment by WalterBright 7 hours ago
But I do agree that real world physics, like designing an actual electronic circuit, have behaviors that are not modeled by the usual mathematical models. For example, resistors vary widely from their marked resistance. And I was told, when building digital circuits, to make sure it worked with chips faster than the spec, as replacement chips are always faster, never slower.
Comment by IAmBroom 28 minutes ago
Resistors are sometimes marked with their variance band (+/-1%, for instance) to account for this.
Engineers take these expected variances into account when designing circuits. If your design is sensitive to a 3% variance in resistor value, you'd better not be specifying gold-banded +/-5% lots.
Comment by rramadass 17 hours ago
Even though Feynman wrote this based on his experience in Latin America, i think this is true of many (most?) countries even today.
There is no "True Education" anymore, only the appearance of one with the sole aim of churning out a "Productive Worker"(for a certain definition of the term) for a Economy; no understanding required.
It is interesting to interpret how the above is still applicable in the current technological hoopla of AI/LLMs capabilities.
What do the students know that is not easily and directly available in a book? The things that can be looked up in a book are only a part of knowledge. Who wants such a student to work in a plant when a book requiring no food or maintenance stands day after day always ready to give just as adequate answers? Who wants to be such a student, to have worked so hard, to have missed so much of interest and pleasure, and to be outdone by an inanimate printed list of "laws"?
Comment by darubedarob 9 hours ago
Comment by scandox 6 hours ago
Comment by AnimalMuppet 20 minutes ago
If I understand correctly, this is not the same problem. The problem Feynman was facing was education where the point was to get a credential, not to become useful. (I agree that neither is the same as to actually learn...)
Comment by throwaway66k1 1 hour ago
'In this anecdote it is said that once upon a time on the cornice of a high horse sat two sparrows, one old, the other young.'
'They were discussing an event which had become the "burning question of the day" among the sparrows, and which had resulted from the mullah's housekeeper having just previously thrown out of a window, on to a place where the sparrows gathered to play, something looking like left-over porridge, but which turned out to be chopped cork; and several of the young and yet inexperienced sparrow sat, almost burst.'
'While talking about the old sparrow, suddenly ruffling himself up, began with a pained grimace to search under his wing for the fleas tormenting him, and which in general breed on underfed sparrows; and having caught one, he said with a deep sigh:
'"Times have changed very much -- there is no longer a living to be had for our fraternity.
'"In the old days we used to sit, just as now, somewhere upon a roof, quietly dozing, when suddenly down in the street there would be heard a noise, a rattling and a rumbling, and soon after an odour would be diffused, at which everything inside us would begin to rejoice; because we felt fully certain that when we flew down and searched the places where all that happened, we would find satisfaction for our essential needs.
'"But nowadays there is plenty and to spare of noise and rattlings, and all sorts of rumblings, and again and again an odour is also diffused, but an odour which it is almost impossible to endure; and when sometimes, by force of old habit, we fly down during a moment's lull to seek something substantial for ourselves, then seach as we may with tense attention, we find nothing at all except some nauseous drops of burned oil."
Comment by fl4tul4 8 hours ago
The same problems still exist, exacerbated by the prevalence of LLMs and no detection mechanisms whatsoever.
The recipe for disaster.
Comment by xandrius 3 hours ago
Is it possible not to bring them up and still have a deep conversation?
Comment by fl4tul4 3 hours ago
Comment by rramadass 2 hours ago
Your sentiment is right but in this case not applicable.
A Teacher who did not really understand what he was teaching can easily have LLMs generate lectures/notes/etc. and pass it along to students without any thought put into it. A Student on his part can simply have LLMs generate answers for all of his problem sets and pass it along to the teacher.
The above would be a disaster for the overall spread of Science in the Society.
Comment by culebron21 5 hours ago
Education in the older epoch that his informers mention, was much smaller in scale. Brazil's illiteracy was at ~65% in 1930, at just <50% by 1960, if I remember correctly. So both common schools and secondary education (college/university) were expanding at the time. And that's the reason.
If you expand education, quality inevitably drops. The lower social strata that are reached by education won't get as good teachers as earlier. You may be able to write good schoolbooks, like mathematicians in the USSR did, but there's still last mile problem, the teacher. Most teachers are not bright enthusiasts, often times they're underpaid and burnt out after ages of teaching. The few enthusiasts and visionaries, are exceptions -- at least this is what I read from one recent study -- and their recipies aren't reproducible.
From what I've read, better universities usually have less students per teacher. This way a teacher can engage better and actually care what the student does. This requires more money poured in the system and less corruption.
(For non-Western countries, money shouldn't be a big problem, they're spending smaller share of GDP on education. But modern beliefs tell that everything should be "efficient", and governments don't want to spend more, instead they insist they need to "digitize" education, and then somehow it will make breakthroughs.)
But also, if you want to play god and pour money from the education ministry into schools or colleges/unis, these streams may actually never reach the file and rank teachers.
Last note: elite school/uni material won't work in lower level ones. I taught in the university where some graduation projects were published in journals for young researchers, and teachers were publishing in not top ranking, but high ranking serious ones. Some courses included work on good older papers (in English, a foreign language).
There, you could easily dismiss students who just want a grade and a degree as noise.
But take a city further from the capitals -- even in good college students will struggle and not able to process it. Not because further on the periphery people are dumber -- simply because most brightest students went to the best unis in the capitals.
In the elites, it's easy to argue to shrink education to keep only the bright guys, like in the XIX century. Well, it doesn't work this way -- you need to educate lots of people to find more bright ones.
So, who, what and how will teach those less bright guys? A big open question to me.
Comment by Gravityloss 3 hours ago
I think it varies a lot from even year to year. For the same course, some teacher might be really optimistic and produces little explanations and tests with very hard problems, while next year there's a teacher who is very good at explaining issues and the tests are a bit less "gotcha" like. Even a single teaching assistant or a friend explaining some key concept in a way it clicks for the student can make a huge difference.
Or maybe you have different formal levels, ie university, technical school, so on, these vary by country and don't have full 1:1 mapping to each other. These also evolve over time.
Or inside one university, you have various levels. Some departments might be small and really hard to get to, either via exams, or proof of previous study ability like high grades. And there then you can expect more from the students.
So one big issue is to get the people sorted into the right places. Also if a person's performance or preference changes over time, they should be able to switch.
Comment by tomhow 8 hours ago
Richard Feynman on education in Brazil - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2483976 - April 2011 (73 comments)