Intermittent hypoxia increases blood flow and benefits executive function

Posted by PaulHoule 6 days ago

Comments

Comment by AceyMan 5 days ago

You mean, forcing your body into a situation where it needs more oxygen than is available is ... good for you? That sure sounds like cardio-aerobic exercise, doesn't it?

Comment by evanjrowley 5 days ago

Yes!

Not to be confused with professional work where the only feasible way to complete the job is to spend hours wearing respirators clogged with particulate, having only one free hand to move heavy/bulky equipment through tight spaces, where getting a full breath of air is anatomically impossible. Extended periods of hypoxia are taxing on the body and require periods of recovery.

Comment by foxyv 5 days ago

Generally, you don't get hypoxic while using a clogged respirator. The problem in such cases is mild hypercapnia and increased work of breathing (Respiratory loading). Hypercapnia in general can cause short term cognitive issues but not long lasting issues. Respiratory loading can cause temporary pulmonary edema.

However, the respiratory loading and hypercapnia are extremely mild in the case of clogged respirators. Especially when compared to divers and snorkelers. The usual problem is that the respirator stops preventing contaminated air from reaching your lungs. As the filters become clogged, the air bypasses the seal around your face.

This is why I prefer a powered respirator. Zero work of breathing and positive pressure at the seals.

Comment by evanjrowley 6 days ago

But depending on how it's done, may possibly damage your vision: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S245199361...

Comment by foxyv 5 days ago

Erotic asphyxiation is way different from intermittent hypoxia. Typically erotic asphyxiation is cutting off the flow of blood to the brain by constricting the veins and/or arteries in the neck. Intermittent hypoxia in the case of divers and Wim Hof enthusiasts is a breath hold. This doesn't cause a spike or decrease of blood pressure in the brain.

> Intermittent hypoxia (IH) entails alternating between intervals (typically 2–6 min in duration) of breathing normoxic (i.e., room air) and hypoxic (i.e., FiO2 of 10%–13%) gas mixtures and is a protocol that increases CBF and has been identified as a potential intervention to improve brain health (Panza et al. 2023). The onset of a hypoxia interval elicits an acute response wherein a rapid chemoreceptor-identified reduction in arterial (SaO2) and cerebral tissue (ScO2) O2 saturation stimulates increased ventilation and heart rate (HR) to maintain homeostatic O2 delivery

Comment by cryptonector 4 days ago

I wonder if she rolled her eyes hard or something.

Anyways, erotic asphyxiation is such a bad idea.

Comment by rc5150 4 days ago

For you.

Comment by coldtea 4 days ago

No, for everybody. We should absolutely bring back some kink-shaming.

Comment by joecool1029 6 days ago

I am wondering if this related to hypoxia inducible factor (HIF) activation.

Seem to recall the nootropic Noopept allegedly acts as an activator for HIF-1. Maybe there are others. Could possibly be a therapeutic target, maybe not. This is not my area of study, I'm just reiterating some of what I've read in the past.

Comment by etrautmann 6 days ago

The main effect of a reaction time reduction looks incredibly small and is all the way in Fig 6. I would not over interpret this result without higher N and some discussion of effect size.

Comment by tapoxi 6 days ago

Finally, an upside to sleep apnea

Comment by samus 6 days ago

There is overall no health benefit since the hypoxic phase is quite long and creates stress during a time when the body is supposed to rest and recover. And that compounds with the underlying issue, usually mouth breathing, bad pillow, bad sleeping position, or a combination of these.

Comment by elric 5 days ago

Pretty sure that was meant as a joke.

Mouth breathing is not a cause of sleep apnea, but it can be a consequence. Bad pillows and bad sleeping positions aren't causes of sleep apnea either, but some people do have "positional sleep apnea" where the apnea is (usually) much worse on the back and much better on the side.

One can also have sleep apnea without ever experiencing hypoxia. Drops in oxygen saturation during hypopneas are very minimal, and pretty much nonexistent with respiratory effort related arousals (RERAs). Not breathing is bad, but for many people with sleep apnea, the problem is the constant arousals and the lack of decent sleep, not a lack of oxygen.

Comment by ang_cire 6 days ago

Came to say this. If one day I don't wake up, at least everyone will know my brain was lit beforehand!

Comment by evanjrowley 6 days ago

Maybe this is the link between sleep apnea and hypertension.

Comment by mxmilkiib 3 days ago

I wonder how this might figure in relation to PoTS (postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome), either way

PoTs being where the autonomic system doesn't equalise blood pressure, especially when standing up n still for several minutes, this the brain doesn't get enough oxygen, so brain fog, head rushes, grayouts (and fatigue, temperature dysregulation + intolerance)

(I've the hyper-adrenergic variety, hyper-PoTS, where the brain tries to generate pressure in a way that will never generate pressure, leaving it so frustratingly easy to have adrenaline rushes that can last for hours)

I've seen a PoTS professional describe the effects as like kind of a mini stroke

it's getting more attention now due to the long COVID relation, and it seems that maybe microclots have become a prime suspect as a possible cause to many symptoms, though there's so many jigsaw pieces, and discerning correlation n cause n effect etc..

obviously there's many contextual tipping points between that and this study (if generalisable)

apparently I have a strong heart. idk

related;

I've nostrils with the collapsing innner valve, so I can't get deep breaths through my nose (and got getting enough air whilst sorry l asleep is a cause of bruxism)

rhinoplasty then turbinate reduction helped mildly, but apparently having some cartridge inserted would help prop the path open for a more normal use.

so,

both of these leave me feeling out of breath a lot

and it's why I'm a month breather. hopefully a third bit of surgery will finally properly help

some kinda vague anecdata there, some kind of a lens anyway!

Comment by hackingonempty 6 days ago

> Healthy young adults (N = 24)

Comment by 1970-01-01 6 days ago

Makes me wonder if professional divers are statistically more intelligent than average, as they will experience hypoxia as part of the job.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_diving

Comment by ceejayoz 6 days ago

They shouldn't experience hypoxia. That's what the air supply is for.

Comment by 1970-01-01 6 days ago

It's not so simple. Check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freediving_blackout#Ascent_bla...

Comment by ceejayoz 6 days ago

Barring really traditional (and now very rare) pearl/scallop divers, professional divers aren't doing it by holding their breath.

Comment by PaulHoule 6 days ago

I never got "deep" into it but everybody told me that breath holding diving can be really dangerous.

I know part of the SCUBA story is that phenomena like nitrogen narcosis are particularly dangerous because you need your cognitive capacity to survive in the underwater environment.

In the surface world I can go to a party and drink eight beers and maybe throw up and act like a dumbass and embarrass myself and then wake up with a headache the next morning. That level of incapacitation under water would likely be fatal.

Comment by nradov 5 days ago

Nitrogen narcosis isn't usually a significant factor in breath hold freediving. They do feel it on extremely deep dives but most aren't going past about 100 ft / 30 m where it becomes really noticeable.

https://alchemy.gr/post/429/dealing-with-narcosis-when-freed...

Technically it's not just nitrogen. Most breathable gasses other than helium have some narcotic potential. This includes oxygen, although the magnitude is unclear. Elevated CO2 levels (hypercapnia) can also seriously reduce your cognitive capacity via multiple mechanisms.

Comment by foxyv 5 days ago

At very high pressures, helium is actually the opposite of a narcotic. This is why it is introduced in Trimix for deep dives. It kind of offsets the narcotic effect of the high pressure oxygen. However it can also cause trembling if there is too much of it.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7478267/

To offset this problem, world record divers are introducing Hydrogen to their mixtures at extreme depths.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrox_(breathing_gas)

Comment by PaulHoule 5 days ago

It's not so much about nitrogen and narcosis from other gases, it's that underwater is a dangerous environment where you can get in trouble quickly if anything goes wrong.

Comment by ceejayoz 6 days ago

Yeah, when I learned scuba, I was told the rule with freediving is your buddy stays on the surface while you dive; that way they can rescue you if you can pass out.

Comment by Hnrobert42 5 days ago

While ascending, the air in your lung expands. If it can't go out your mouth/nose, then it expands your lungs or is forced through membranes. Either way, the results are not good.

Nitrogen narcosis is another risk of SCUBA diving, but it is not really related to breath holding.

Comment by nradov 5 days ago

Lung over expansion issues can only happen when ascending after breathing compressed gas under pressure. That isn't a problem with breath hold freediving.

Comment by 5 days ago

Comment by catigula 6 days ago

Professionals at anything, let alone an elite performance sport like this, are almost certainly statistically more intelligent than average.

Comment by dinkblam 6 days ago

Can you link to a study backing this up?

I'd say most professional athletes are less intelligent than average…

Comment by untrust 5 days ago

I think that this way of thinking is a little reductive. Every sport depends on certain intelligence metrics, and the brain is ultimately the operator behind all movement. The intelligence required to read a defense and solve a complex math problem may be different, but being good at either require intelligence.

A professional athlete in team based sports, at any given moment, is parsing a ton of data and responsing with quick reflexes and intuition to their changing environment. For example, quarterbacks in the NFL are reading a defense, parsing coverage, and making split second decisions after the play begins to develop.

A soccer goalkeeper is ensuring precise geometry to stay in an optimal position to make a stop, ensuring they are creating a triangle between the ball and the goalposts to optimize their position relative to the possible shooter.

Ontop of all of the in-game aspects, there is intelligence required to train to optimal levels, and hand waving this away as the coaches responsibility is not based in reality. Professional athletes have to stay very mentally focused in their training off the field to achieve their on the field results.

A lot of people judge professional athletes intelligence based on their communications with reporters and on field interviews, but public speaking ability and intelligence are not necessarily correlated. Your smartest engineer is probably not great at making keynote speeches, and likewise would be particularly terrible if they were making them after exerting extreme effort (like athletes do in post game interviews) or while they are pumped with adrenaline with an elevated heart rate (conditions sideline interviews tend to take place in).

All of this is to say, professional athletes arent all meat heads like most computer programmers and bookworms tend to believe. Your judgement that they aren't smart is probably based off of your bias and you are likely overweighting your analysis on a few notable dumb athletes against the crop.

Also, to top it all off, every sport is different, so you can't lump professional athletes into a single bucket.

Comment by nradov 5 days ago

Why would you say that? Personally I would say that those who make unwarranted assumptions and post them online are less intelligent than average.

Comment by paulcole 5 days ago

What is the difference between what they said and this that they responded to?

> Professionals at anything, let alone an elite performance sport like this, are almost certainly statistically more intelligent than average.

Comment by captainbland 5 days ago

It probably wouldn't be significant as executive function and overall intelligence can change independently.

Comment by ed 6 days ago

s/professional divers/free-divers/

Comment by glerk 5 days ago

It intuitively makes sense that moderate exposure to a variety of stressors (resistance training, fasting, cold showers, sauna, sleep deprivation, etc.) forces your body to overcompensate, develop adaptations, and become more resilient.

Comment by p0w3n3d 4 days ago

This might lead to unhealthy behaviours and make people crippled. TBH this sounds like an old joke that a farmer almost taught the horse not to eat but it died for some reason when almost succeeded

Comment by glerk 4 days ago

Of course, you should use common sense here.

Comment by wslh 6 days ago

A few days ago I linked some research to well known intervals running practice that include hypoxia: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46169398

Comment by ThrowawayTestr 6 days ago

So those breath holding contests we had at school were making us smarter?

Comment by eastbound 6 days ago

In aggregate yes. When the most stupid die, the average IQ increases.

I’m joking, by the way. The more risk-taking people might be the ones who push civilization forward. Starting with Churchill…

Comment by estimator7292 5 days ago

Intermittent fasting, but for oxygen. Breatharians will be elated

Comment by emmelaich 6 days ago

I was given a tip to stay awake a while back: hold your breath for a little while. Apparently this well known for many years but I had never heard of it.

Seems to work, but this was in the context of driving which I do not recommend, having fallen asleep at the wheel once and woken up rally driving down some paddock.

Comment by m463 5 days ago

I know people that live at altitude control their weight better.

I also know top athletes train in hyperbaric chambers (extra oxygen).

Comment by LorenPechtel 5 days ago

I'm not remotely at that level but I can see the difference between my performance in local terrain vs Death Valley. There's a decent amount of stuff down there bumpy enough to be interesting but not so bumpy as to make it hard to get through. But, on the flip side, I have never been able to find a good, sustainable pace in the mountains.

Comment by jrootabega 6 days ago

I'm not knowledgeable enough to confidently verify this from the linked material, but aren't they keeping CO2 levels the same during the hypoxic periods? i.e. isn't this significantly different than just holding your breath/being choked/sleep apnea?

Comment by amriksohata 5 days ago

Nisshesha Rechaka and Kapalvati prescribe very similar processes to create a similar (but different) state of hypoxia, i.e yoga

Comment by 6 days ago

Comment by Madmallard 5 days ago

Sounds not very believable and probably sampling bias and other hacked research parameters.

Comment by LorenPechtel 5 days ago

Except I've seen this suggested elsewhere, beneficial effects from both skydiving and from scuba diving. Things that cause big swings in available oxygen.

Comment by deadfece 6 days ago

Seems like that was what they set out to prove.

Hopefully some of that can be reproduced in further studies.

Comment by 5 days ago

Comment by PaulHoule 6 days ago

... note that the article linked from this discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46168057 mentions intermittent hypoxia as a rapid acting treatment for depression right up there with Ketamine and ECT

Comment by everythingfine9 5 days ago

So my mild sleep apnea is a good thing, got it

Comment by ajuc 6 days ago

Asthma counts?

Comment by nradov 5 days ago

I guess it worked for Deadpool.

Comment by kylehotchkiss 6 days ago

don't tell the microdosers

Comment by lubujackson 6 days ago

Is this the new Adderall?

...I'm not holding my breath.

Comment by Hnrobert42 5 days ago

I'd love to see them develop an at-home protocol for this, but I'm not holding my breath.

Comment by alex1138 6 days ago

brb

Comment by elif 6 days ago

Another confirmation for wim hof breathing

Comment by samus 6 days ago

Rather of its opposite (but similar): Buteyko breathing, which puts emphasis on building up CO2 tolerance and adopting more gentle, relaxed breathing patterns by inducing carefully controlled hypoxia. But I have to admit, I know only very superficially what the Wim Hof method is.

Comment by ratelimitsteve 6 days ago

according to wimhofmethod.com their breathing exercises are meant to increase oxygen levels, not decrease them